well i'd like him to go there.
''i am frightened of what we will find there: perhaps it is beyond our capacity to process?''
just a silly excuse then.
― Julio Desouza, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― david h(owie), Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
yr above post started to become clearer to me after this line.
David- I'm back in england on friday. I will set up that MSN account so that we can chat (if you are still up for that of course).
i do not know enough abt logic, only inorganic chemistry.
julio i wasn't getting at you, i only said REM because they are the kind of group where press releases always talk abt "influence" as if it's obvious what's going and why: but it isn't
relationship is a MUCH better word: "stefan jaworzyn has a relationship with derek bailey..." and the reason for that is that you can't anyway separate the musical dimension from the emotional or symbolic or "political" or __________ or __________... Relationship is a better word because it is SO general that you are forced to the next stage (which is to try and describe it, and how it works, and how it fails). 'Influence" sounds particular but then turns out to be vague and general, except when you push the generality (eg are fans "influenced"?) it fails to be general enough. It enforces a built-in assumption abt how music works, which is (i think) a dull assumption even if true, and (i also think) rarely very helpfully true.
― mark s, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
the "frightened" line was a joke (sort of) (it wd be more obviously a joke if i actually DID GO THERE obv)
The example above i can see it a bit better. I like the use of 'relationship'.
i suppose whenever i see the 'i' word I'll just have to see if it leads anywhere or not. I think the paragraph above tells me a bit more than all your other 'rants'.
― ahab s, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
they have, the bedwetting goons.
― pulpo, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
for the record, I quite like the music when Jim shuts up. It's pity he ever said anything.
morrisey lyrics too?
how bloody depressing.
― Andrew, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I do not register lyrics in my brane when i listen to recs but the bits i have registered are quite funny (maybe hearing the doors as comedy recs, as sens was jokingly telling me, might be the way forward).
Capt beefheart is the only rock poet i've heard (but is is rock anyway?).
― Julio Desouza, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ben Williams, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I agree that when Morrison starts talking about snakes and lakes my interest level drops precipitously; however, to proceed from that point to a claim that Morrison never wrote anything but crap lyrics is unjustified. Some of his songs are very direct, emotional, and - dare I say? - subtle statements. "Soul Kitchen", for example, is a succinct and deeply felt evocation of a particular state of mind, and I think anyone who has felt that way can relate to it. Plus it has some great lines: "The cars crawl past all stuffed with eyes" or "Your fingers weave quick minarets / Speak in secret alphabets / I light another cigarette / Learn to forget". No doggerel there.
― o. nate, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
And I'm really sorry, but I find even the better lyrics you quote trite as all get-out. Nor do I find them bouyed up by the music. They may well be funny to some, but do consider they were truly meant to be taken seriously. If you are sniggering fine, but please admit that you're indulging in some ironic interpretation that admits the inate pretension of Jim's writing. Jim himself while he was alive definetely claimed to be a poet.Therefore it's quite reasonable to believe him and analyse his lyrics as poetry. And I reckon it's absolutley shithouse poetry.
― Andrew, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jim Morrison, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
This influence debate I don't really understand. The word covers conscious imitation certainly, but also unconscious regurgitation. I don't see what's difficult about acknowledging that aspect of the creative process.
― David, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Now, if you want outright theft of the Morrison vocal schtick, why not check out The Tea Party? As much as that guy claims that he's not trying to channel Morrison, I will never ever believe him.
― Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 10 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
it's obfuscation pretending to be clarification
― mark s, Wednesday, 10 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
"so what temperature is the baby's bathwater, mark s?" "it's spong!" "you didn't even check!" "that's what's so great, i no longer have to!!"
― OleM, Wednesday, 10 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― David, Wednesday, 10 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Wednesday, 10 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza, Wednesday, 10 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 11 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bobbie shlep, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ralph Johnson, Saturday, 12 June 2004 05:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Saturday, 12 June 2004 06:08 (nineteen years ago) link
I have kids?
Actually a pretty incredible thread, this, tons of good discussions and anecdotes both.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 12 June 2004 17:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 12 June 2004 17:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― jack cole (jackcole), Saturday, 12 June 2004 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― fcussen (Burger), Saturday, 12 June 2004 20:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― David Allen (David Allen), Saturday, 12 June 2004 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link
Don't worry, you'll grow out of that soon.
― Vic Funk, Saturday, 12 June 2004 21:37 (nineteen years ago) link