Vampire Weekend; Arctic Monkeys of 2008?

even if they avoid/"play dumb" about the issue in interviews.

of course they MUST be "playing" dumb, these are boys of fine upper class stock

tomorrow ned will run faster

that's not really that good of a slam

Vampire Weekend are about as African as Animal Collective is rave—parts are there, but not the whole.

lol why is this a problem/issue/criticism?

Man, that's just a rehash of years-old arguments that barely apply to their actual music. It's a dialogue about a dialogue that kind of resonates and echo chambers around because detractors want it to. I don't hear almost any appropriation in their music save a few songs, certainly not more than many of their contemporaries. The difference, which Jessica correctly notes, is class. Nobody in the world would complain about Timbaland (who is far more wealthy than VW mind you) or some punk band on K Records appropriating third-world music. For some reason, the realities of multiculturalism and having a discussion about class isn't something you get to be part of if you're middle class and white. And especially if you're indie, I guess, for no other reason I can tell other than the author wants to paint indie in a specific light.

So at least she does some close reading, but then comes to the conclusions she wants to, e.g. "Koenig is trying to have it both ways—to be the mocking outsider while telegraphing his exact position as an upper-class white aesthete through references that connote unfettered living and heavy beach play." Uh, he's not "trying to have it both ways" he's conflicted. Like his distractors. And a lot of indie kids. And the people writing these pieces: Conflicted about class, education, wealth, appreciating other cultures and when that lapses into tourism.

If anything, VW are up front about it, writing about their real world, instead of the trad indie/"artist" romanticization of a lack of success or hiding inside of a fantasy of another world, which is a lot more condescending and insulting to my mind. I don't see how this is "escapist fantasy about wealth" at all; it seems like just the opposite-- being aware of both class and first-world wealth and possessions, conflicted about how we're defined by possessions and personal brands, acknowledging those conflicts. And it seems very Now actually.

Even if the whole "oh no appropriation" thing was somehow valid, and I never have thought it was the case, it's just something grafted onto four guys here who in the grand scheme of things are *barely* more wealthy than any of the rest of us. The issue isn't that VW have less right to give a shit about African music as we do. The average wage for someone in, say, Congo, to take an actual example from that piece, is $40 a month. Me and you and Jessica Hopper and most anyone in the U.S. or UK, even on govt dependance or govt housing, is as relatively removed from that as Ezra Koenig. But Ezra Koening wears boat shoes, so he's the faker and we're not

The difference isn't that Ezra Koenig shouldn't be "allowed" to show interest in African music (which is some closed-off, let's-ignore-the-third-world bs in the first place anyway), it's that a lot of indie kids (and Hopper, despite the noise, is rooted in these scenes too) don't want to be associated with someone preppy, or with marginally more money than they have. They want to slum it. And, again, *that's* the problem.

indie rockers are supposed to be grubby proles, not graduates of Columbia University, and front man Ezra Koenig obviously knows it.

this is just complete fucking bullshit

indie rockers are supposed to be grubby proles, not graduates of Columbia University

HI DERE

http://thosegeese.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/malko.jpg

http://www.pettediscographies.com/images/SP180slv.jpg

malk went to uva

every fuckin indie rocker went to college!

xpost

It is bullshit. It's wildly crazy. It's as anti-intellectual and anti-aspirational as the crap you get from some parts of the RW in this country. Hopper (and many others) are basically blasting VW with the indie rock version of the same "elitist"/arugula-eating bs arguments people actually lob at Obama/Kerry, etc.

there's a big difference between college and Ivy League in NYC though

i think all of this posturing would probably go away if VW were actually, you know, an okay band. at best they're like hopper says, they sound like a CVB b-side without the Reagan jokes

ABOUT $15,000 WORTH OF DIFFERENCE, AM I RIGHT?

xp

i like vw because they make their critics so uncomfortable while i'm just like man these are some catchy tunes huh

i like the part of the review about why they suck, not so much the part about why they're culturally offensive

i think all of this posturing would probably go away if VW were actually, you know, an okay band. at best they're like hopper says, they sound like a CVB b-side without the Reagan jokes

― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, January 28, 2010 1:00 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

kind of think the only reason anyone cares is because theyre a pretty good band

right, and hopper doesn't think they're an okay band

there's a big difference between college and Ivy League in NYC though

nah not really

Like his distractors.

You know, I like this a LOT more than 'detractors!' I think you just coined a neologism, Scott.

so the thing is you're wrong, they're not a good band, you should download some fugazi

kind of think the only reason anyone cares is because theyre a pretty good band

they're settling becuz Koenig's a better Sting Costello than Patrick Stump reading Pete Wentz journals.

The band's Afropopisms are flourishes, no more central to the music than its whiffs of late-80s electro

why is this a criticism?

they're no style council

i mean, i don't think Hopper is really saying "indie rockers are supposed to be grubby proles," but is saying that's the common line of thinking

ha, of course ned, thx...I should stop firing this crap off w/o a second look

what university did haircut 100 go to?

ok but since she doesn't reject that position it seems like she supports it?

there's a big difference between college and Ivy League in NYC though

nah not really

― call all destroyer, Thursday, January 28, 2010 6:02 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

okay.

i literally have never heard anyone claim in any capacity that indie rock is grubby prole music

How is "Ivy League" a bad thing to some people? Do you guys sneering at it use the phrase "real America" too?

what university did haircut 100 go to?

Vidal Sassoon?

I was pissed when bands stopped dressing like ex-GBV members around the time Belle & Sebastian got big but man, that was a while ago

i mean hoppers coming from a whole different world of what "indie" meant than vamp week

totally

btw i really hope you will all help me spread "vamp week" as kinda a "BOC" or "the nuge" type foreshortening of this band's name

more like vamp weak

or would "the weekend" be better?

more like this band is weak

i'm ready to forgive yay-much muddled talk about class in any review that notes the drummer sucks

whether they're upper class or not, a #1 band can afford to lose the phish fan dorm buddy

i mean, scott, lets get real. to anyone who's actually PLAYED MUSIC IN NYC, yes it was real fucking annoying that a bunch of rich kids got super famous in 9 months when everyone else was working on year-six of doing web design, so they could trying to raise enough money to pay the retarded, prohibitive $500 a month it costs to rent a practice space in this town. That's why its annoying that they went to Columbia, not because they read Foucoult's Pendulum for homework or whatever

for a band whose ivy league-ness seems so central, one wishes they actually showed any intelligence or smarts about how they go about their business - precious, privileged kids "playing" w/class signifiers isn't necessarily bad, obv, but VW are so bloody lazy at it - it's not about disliking long words, it's about the fact that they don't go beyond just using long words. basically nellie mckay's debut album did everything VW's boosters claim they do, except stylistically she leans towards the musical and jazz traditions more than biting paul simon.

"africa" seems to be much more of a totemic object to hopper than it does to VW. i really doubt a continent's worth of musicians are all that pissed at what this band is up to, or would be, if they heard them. maybe some would be, and i'd love to read their take on it. but being offended on their behalf is ahem "problematic," as college kids like to say.

the realness-to-fake-import supply chain goes in a bunch of difft direction anyway. if VW claim that their auto-tune is supposed to be 'third world' and not t-pain, i guess that's kind of stupid. but i remember reading a bunch of stuff about autotune taking off in various african musics (rai maybe?) post t-pain. or maybe post-cher, heh.

where did cher go to college?

lol do people understand that there are no special classes that u can only take at an ivy league school

How is "Ivy League" a bad thing to some people?

does this really even need to be discussed

i am torn on how to answer that

I think there's another explanation for whatever class resentment you see against VW, and even moreso against The Strokes. Popular music, in its ideal, mythological sense, at least, is something many people have traditionally liked to think of as the sphere of the working classes, a sphere where people from poor or modest means rise to the top on their grit and energy and honesty and fire-in-the-belly.

If VW aren't rich rich, they're certainly privileged and they certainly come off as privileged. And somehow success appears to come so quickly and easily to them, almost to the extent that you'd think one of them had a well-connected parent like the Strokes did. And they may have no such connections, but that's how they come off. And to make things worse, they actually sing about stuff we associate with privilege, and if there's an irony to it, it's not the biting irony of satire, but a more gentle, almost blank irony. So even if there's a bit of tongue in cheek, the overriding message is still "We are privileged, life is easy for us, and thus we have easily become successful even in what was once for people of other classes."

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:51 PM (1 year ago)

best post

ppl so bitter about the success of others

call all destroyer and scottpl generally OTM in this thread

I'm less bitter about the success of others when they aren't constantly reminding me of it. I'd probably like these guys just fine if they had the strokes write lyrics for them.