That live gig is very poorly recorded and I wasn't surprised when another live set wz released separately.
I got far more out of Closer than unknown pleasures, which I always seemed to lose interest in after the first couple of songs. The guitars fade into the background a lot more throughout 'closer', as I recall, which kind of follows onto new order.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 17 September 2004 13:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 17 September 2004 13:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 17 September 2004 13:53 (nineteen years ago) link
They sound (to me) as if they were genuinely despairing as opposed to sounding as if they were just feeling sory for themselves and wanting attention.
"The manic depressive who used to call me at 2am threatening to kill herself certainly wasn't a spotty teenager, but that doesn't make her "better" than one.
I think you're going way beyond / beneath how either band sound now.
Lest there be any misunderstanding though, let me make it absolutely clear that I was a fan of Joy Division while they were going and (to extend your comparison in the direction that it appears to me to be going) I most certainly don't believe that Ian Curtis having hanged himself is in any way "better" than Thom Yorke not having done so!
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― righteousmaelstrom, Friday, 17 September 2004 14:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:36 (nineteen years ago) link
Mind you, The Cure didn't have much of a "goth" following in those days either as far as I can recall!
Whether or not the reason that the goths subsequently became interested in JD was a direct consequence of Ian Curtis death or the manner thereof I really wouldn't wish to speculate....
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:51 (nineteen years ago) link
The clothes?
I think not!
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:58 (nineteen years ago) link
Goth pin-ups?
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:00 (nineteen years ago) link
I can't see too many goths being over-enamoured of Steven Morris' nice smart striped shirt either.
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 15:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― cºzen (Cozen), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:38 (nineteen years ago) link
let's play word association! interpol... acne!
― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 16:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― cºzen (Cozen), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:42 (nineteen years ago) link
Joy Division are not usually thought of as being goth, despite being referred to as "gothic" at the time, but their influence on goth bands wasconsiderable. Their sparse, haunting sound was quite unlike anything else around at the time and spawned a host of imitators, especially afterIan Curtis' death (Bauhaus' first album and the Sisters' first single were both slammed as being the work of poor Joy Division copyists, whichwas rather unfair on Bauhaus). Their use of minimalist and gothic art on record covers also had a lasting influence (for instance, the cover tothe March Violets "Grooving in Green", designed by Andrew Eldritch, has definite similarities to the cover of "Closer").
Additionally, they were a major source of the term "gothic" as applied to post-punk music.
However, Joy Division were never a part of the goth scene; the goth scene proper started to emerge around 81/82, by which time Ian Curtis waslong dead.
They were never really regarded as "goth" musically by goths, either, despite the obvious debts owed to them by a lot of goth bands. A lot offirst-era goths viewed them as too "mainstream" owing to their posthumous popularity; also, their image was rather too bleak (from a Batcavepoint of view, they were decidedly unsexy). And they had their own following, the "long raincoat brigade".
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link
I completely disagree, Joy Division = Urban Decay, VU = Heroin/S&M, JAMC = Motorcycles/Oral Sex. None of them = vampires/lace/eyeliner. I mean they all wear black, but so do The Raiders (who are actually more goth than those bands).
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― the pinefoxateurist, Friday, 17 September 2004 16:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link
are you a very very old person?
― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 16:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link
They're great! Or I should say she's great, one woman band.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 18 September 2004 05:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 18 September 2004 05:59 (nineteen years ago) link
Can someone do a friendster search on JD? then we can see what else their fans like.
I think amt's pinefox impression wz worse than when raggett did it on some other thread. Can't blame you tho' - its hard to do.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 18 September 2004 09:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― youn, Saturday, 18 September 2004 15:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:42 (nineteen years ago) link
-- Spencer Chow (spencercho...), September 17th, 2004.
those bands might not be goth but c'mon, the 'goth' aesthetic (in rock music) as we know it wouldn't exist the way it does without those bands.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:47 (nineteen years ago) link
JOY DIVISION WERE FRANZ FERDINAND!
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:50 (nineteen years ago) link
i guess it prolly differs from goth to goth (heh). all the goths i've known personally were DEFINITELY into Joy Division.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:55 (nineteen years ago) link
"Good, good..."
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:56 (nineteen years ago) link
blood test, dude.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― youn, Saturday, 18 September 2004 17:00 (nineteen years ago) link
x-post
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 18 September 2004 17:00 (nineteen years ago) link