Search & Destroy: Sun Ra

Destroy: jazz recommendations from soul-less people.

Search: Atlantis. Title track finally fulfills fantasies I had of what Sun Ra would sound like: alien, cold, forbidding, etc. The rest of the album is pretty good too.

Destroy. Pictures of Infinity. Not really bad, but also not spectacular live album. Classic wrong entry album that makes you go "is this what all the fuss is about?"

Additional recommendations: Monorails and Satellites, Sun Ra playing solo piano. Like many Sun Ra recordings, this took a few listens (in this case separated over a number of years) before I came to appreciate it.

Other Planes of There. I don't know why this seems to be considered less accessible than Atlantis or the Magic City, both of which are too chaotic-sounding for me (at least in their title tracks). This starts off a bit more spare than the title tracks from those albums. There are some difficult moments, but overall I like it. The recording quality on the title track is perhaps "cruder" than that on "Heliocentric Worlds vol.I:," but I find it warmer, though I can't explain how such lonely and alienated sounding music can also be warm. At times I think I hear echoes of Varese (sp?). It includes "Pleasure" which always blows my mind. The last rack, which maintains more or less a waltz rhythm throughout is probably my least favorite on the album, but it's pretty good.

Angels and Demons at Play/The Nubians of Plutonia is a pretty accessible and enjoyable CD. (Did I just say anything there? Probably not.) Fate in a Pleasant Mood/When Sun Comes Out is also good. The first album is relatively straight, while the second one gets into more "uncompromising sonic exploration" sort of territory. The rediscovered bonus track of Marshall Allen playing clarinet is a treat. It sounds like he is work on a theme very close to one that appears on one or more other tracks (elsewhere), possibly "Next Stop Mars."

Destroy? I'm reluctant to say destroy anything, since Sun Ra albums I didn't like have often grown on me. I am less keen on his live albums in general than a lot of Sun Ra fans seem to be, though I love seeing the Arkestra live.

Correction: John Gilmore plays clarinet on this track.

Incidentally, Marshall Allen's Arrival Day is this Saturday (the 25th). It will be celebrated at the Tritone in Philadelphia.

I just found out that Szwed has a Miles Davis book coming out this year. Oh happy day!

The ideal starting point is the soundtrack to the Ra movie (can't remeber name). There's a lot of varied material there and it serves as a sort of Ra comp.

I like the group improvisations and the stuff he does with his moog (big slabs of noise: a take no prisoners approach there). Will have to get more records and the biog. Swzed is a good writer.

''in the credits to the ra movie (remake: Queen of the Damned) is the name WILLIAM DHALGREN: this has always intrigued me''

Why?

THESE records shop has a rack fully devoted to Ra (one of the guys who runs it absolutely worships him). That's where i got that CD from. Google it, they run a mail order service.

In a similar vein, I recently got "Black Myth/Out in Space" - "Out In Space" being another electronic maelstrom, this time lasting almost 38 minutes! Believe me, not a CD for the faint-hearted!

I have to confess however that I'm not a tremendous fan of his so- called "great" albums from the mid-60's: "Magic City", "Heliocentric Worlds", "Atlantis". I think these albums are remarkable but I don't find myself listening to them very often - they're more to be admired than loved. Certainly, if you're looking for jazz don't look at the "Heliocentric Worlds" albums - these are probably the least "jazz" jazz albums I've ever heard, closer in fact to Varese or even Boulez.

I have to confess however that I'm not a tremendous fan of his so- called "great" albums from the mid-60's: "Magic City", "Heliocentric Worlds", "Atlantis". . . . Certainly, if you're looking for jazz don't look at the "Heliocentric Worlds" albums - these are probably the least "jazz" jazz albums I've ever heard, closer in fact to Varese or even Boulez.

I don't really like those albums either. (I have only heard one of Heliocentric volumes, but I own the other volume and the other two titles mentioned.) Have you heard "Other Planes of There"? The title track covers somewhat similar material to "Heliocentric Worlds" but is much warmer and less rigid sounding. I don't mind jazz that doesn't sound much like jazz, per se, but I share your lack of enthusiasm for these albums.

I enjoyed 'Exotic Forest'. A constant bassline but lovely 'middle eastern' blowing (cliche alert!) and rolling percussion. And whenever sun ra plays on that piano (he sounds like a classical pianist who had burnt his hands but was still able to play) the music would change direction.

Definetely need to listen more. There's much more but i need to go to sleep.

anyway, will get some more recs soon...

Generally when I read that something sounds "middle eastern" in a published review, I find that it either sounds only very vaguely middle eastern or it doesn't sound middle eastern at all. (For instance "Circe" from "When Sun Comes Out" doesn't sound like anything a middle eastern singer would do, though the liner notes describe it that way.)

I'll try to track some of this stuff down (yet some more for the record pile but I need to visit the 'world music' section at tower anyway).

I don't care much for Flamenco singing, which sounds to me like degenerate Arabic singing (not that I am saying it really is, but to my Arabicized ears, it kind of sounds that way); but I do like the guitar. Where I take salsa classes, there is also a Flamenco dance class. The teacher's husband is a guitarist who plays for the class. When I first heard him playing I was amazed by how good he is. I did kind of a double take, like, wow, this guy is actually really good, not just the teacher's husband who happens to play a little guitar or something. In fact, do you know much about Flamenco guitar, because that's something I'd be interested in hearing recommendations for? (I probably should get off my butt and be daring and go to a little bar at the edge of what used to be the barrio, where this guitarist sometimes accompanies his wife, etc.)

yeah...i've looked into flamenco guitarists but I can't remember any names (i think there was a webpage somewhere, I suppose I feel a thread coming).

If not, could somebody hurry up and do it?

there WAS a bootleg about a year ago but i was assured this was official. i don't really know what to believe with rough trade cos it all depends who you speak to. try the scot with the beard. i assume you went to the covent garden one with the tramps and the cheese and the skaters and whatnot

if all fails i'll dub it 4 u

yes, I went to the covent garden shop.

muhaha in that case i will get a another copy and flog it on eBay

High points from "Live at the Wonder Inn": a performance of "Angels and Demons at Play" and "How High the Moon." The latter, of course, is just the sort of "material in a traditional jazz vein" I was talking about, but I like it nevertheless. I think I like this song now. I notice that during much of "Spontaneous Simplicity," someone is playing a clave rhythm. I have heard something close to the clave rhythm before in Sun Ra songs, but I don't think I've ever heard it played this overtly.

The sound on "The Majestic Session" is a little more problematic. When the music gets loud and all musicians are playing simultaneously, the distortion is pretty bad. It's a pity, since the energy is definitely there. I like Sun Ra's solo at the beginning of "Velvet," though it's hard to make it out. I haven't quite sorted through the four pieces titled "Majestic" 1-4. I think my favorite is the 4th.

I like the CD as a package (aside from the nasty adhesive which doesn't want to come off). The liner notes are good, and there are some very cool photos from the Wonder Inn. (For a more adequate review, check the one somebody who knows a lot mroe than I do posted on amazon.com.)

how about all of the supposedly 200-odd el-saturn lps out there that aren't re-issued ? anybody got some saturn vinyl they'd like to mention ? ok, recommending these odd small-run bootleg type lps would be pointless, but if everyone here had one real el-saturn piece of vinyl, it might be a different one from anyone else's here, hopefully

200+ privately issued lps -- some very limited, issued casually at gigs from the '60s to the '80s -- let's hear about the ones that haven't made it to the re-issue process and maybe may never re-appear -- made it into anyone's collection ?

how about it ? not s/d, more a special swap meet on saturn ?
some el-saturn record that you and possibly you alone might be able to say something about ..

I'm not a collector of rarities. There is too much that is easily available which I haven't gotten to (not just for Sun Ra, but in general).

Thanks for sharing!

Marshall Allen interview - 100 years young this year!

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/feb/02/a-man-cannot-learn-without-discipline-jazz-guru-marshall-allen-on-life-with-sun-ra-and-turning-100

yes please

https://sunramusic.bandcamp.com/album/pink-elephants-on-parade

There was an earlier record of Disney tunes, may be OOP:

https://www.discogs.com/master/2260915-Sun-Ra-His-Intergalaxtic-Arkestra-Second-Star-To-The-Right-Salute-To-Walt-Disney

yep, and these are all different versions believe!

*I believe

That seems so. I bought the new one, wish that old one was streaming or available in a legit download.

I can YSI if u ilxmail me, I have a flac rip

I've seen the Sun Ra Arkestra twice live in the last two years, and two by streaming. They are so much fun, even though Marshall Allen sat out the most recent DC appearance. Knoel Scott's just as valuable a leader, even if he hasn't been with the band since day 1.

Search: Excelsior Mill, Ra's only(?) solo pipe organ recording, from 1984 on a Wurlitzer Theatre Organ at the Dupre Excelsior Mill in Atlanta. Up and down and around the twists and turns of the instrument, a pretty thrilling 42-minute ride, highest recommendation. Released this past April on Modern Harmonic.

ooooh!! that album of sun ra disney tunes is one of my faves -- "the forest of no return" is SO GOOD

I love it so much I made it the theme song to my radio show!

ha! good choice

hi Boring, I got yr ilxmail but you need to send me another one with an email address, sender is not visible in ilxmail - I got yr flac files!

NTS is streaming live Sun Ra all day today, just tuned in.

First thing that stands out on whatever track I'm listening to right now is the percussion. The Arkestra's rhythm section is probably my favorite in jazz, they bring a lot of swing to the music.

Well, now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp29FTEnPJg

wow!

need to check that out.

saw the Walt Dickerson / Sun Ra album in a new arrivals bin today, need to check that out as well

This guy has one of the greatest Youtube channels I've ever come across. Lots of film of European jazz festivals from the 60s/70s. Some mind blowing stuff on there.

yeh was watching the incredible Ayler sets from 1966 earlier, going to dig deeper

?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=videos

soz, I meant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=videos

sorry, just trying to link to the guy's video page and it's not working for some reason

That’s my homie Jay’s channel he is a super sick drummer

Probably the right thread to celebrate that Marshall Allen has his debut solo album coming out next month.

First musician to release their debut solo album at age 100?

First musician to release an album of any sort at age 100 I would have thought?

Elliott Carter lived to see the release of an album of only the compositions he wrote at age 100 and up.

people who have figured out how to live #onethread

the marshall allen "solo debut" is more than a great story, it's incredibly lovely

FYI he's doing a show at Roulette this spring which will be his solo album's live debut.

https://roulette.org/event/marshall-allen-the-new-dawn/

this really is great, thanks xxp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpZOcDPjV20

gonna get an american masters feature on the 20th. don't know if it's been mentioned elsewhere, and definitely excited enough to repeat things.

trailer looks great.

I checked out"Cosmic Tones for Mental Therapy" recently, pretty wild this was recorded in '63, legit psychedelia and even some dubby sounds

Just saw this trailer -- should be good.