Never heard of these people until the last few minutes either, fwiw:
39 Washed Out · Feel It All Around 14 12 0.857
― xhuxk, Thursday, 21 January 2010 18:40 (fourteen years ago) link
xxxp "Blame It," "My Life Would Suck Without You," "Keep It Goin' Louder," "Day 'N' Nite," and "Single Ladies" are off full-length albums. "Party in the USA" is off the Time of Our Lives EP. Presumably "Shine Blockas" is from Sir Luscious Left Foot (2010 release). The rest appear to be completely stand-alone (though I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually end up on albums this year).
― Hoisin Murphy (jaymc), Thursday, 21 January 2010 18:42 (fourteen years ago) link
Are there really very many songs that exist outside of albums these days?
Nine of my singles (and they were singles) did not appear on a single-artist album in 2009. One of the nine will definitely appear on a 2010 album. Not sure about the others.
― Andy K, Thursday, 21 January 2010 18:57 (fourteen years ago) link
also w/ a lot of popular music these days, especially R&B and rap, there's such a long lead time between singles being released and their parent albums being released that they're increasingly straddling different years
― some dude, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, Andy, I realized belatedly that it's far more common for dance/electronic artists to release stand-alone singles.
― Hoisin Murphy (jaymc), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:03 (fourteen years ago) link
like, the 2010 album Big Boi had a single off of on this year's poll also had an earlier single get 6 votes in the 2008 poll (xpost)
― some dude, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:04 (fourteen years ago) link
ilxor, did you see one of nabsico's Tumblr posts from earlier? you were quoted.
Didn't see this, actually... mind pointing me in the right direction?
― I just wish he hadn't adopted the "ilxor" moniker (ilxor), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:05 (fourteen years ago) link
xp True -- I voted for a Kid Sister song in 2007 that eventually turned up on her 2009 album.
― Hoisin Murphy (jaymc), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:06 (fourteen years ago) link
http://agrammar.tumblr.com/post/344749076/a-lengthy-hack-through-recent-music-crit-stuff-mostly
― Hoisin Murphy (jaymc), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:07 (fourteen years ago) link
Thanks!
― I just wish he hadn't adopted the "ilxor" moniker (ilxor), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:08 (fourteen years ago) link
i almost wonder if the pop critics are dying out because indie-critics have the DIY ethic where they're happy to do a review for $20
what do you base the idea that there was ever a wide U.S. audience for pop crit? Seriously. It's always been for rock or things that sprouted from punk/new wave/etc. No different then as it is now. We have no legacy of Smash Hits or The Face. Blender lasted as long as it did because of its covers, corporate money, and celeb-based features, not its writing (sorry). A lot of other crits wrote for papers and stuff about pop stars but that audience now has gossip mags, celeb sites, tv to find out about, say, Rihanna. People want photobooks of Fergie not 400 words on her new LP. Now they don't need the words to see the photos. They don't to read how some critic thinks she bit M.I.A. in order to hear about her personal life.
When the Lex claimed Rihanna's TV iviews were proof that people cared about her LP, not only did it not matter she had an LP out, it probably didn't matter she was a musician in the first place. She was a celebrity. If she was ScarJo and Chris Brown was Ryan Reynolds and everyone involved behaved the same way, the narrative would have played out the same-- except more people would have cared since film is so much bigger than music.
Isn't it possible that, like I said before, a lot of people used to get paid a lot of money to write a lot of words about things that in actual fact nobody wanted to read? And now that we have direct metrics to measure online what is read, and less utilitarian need for critics (from a reader not a cultural POV), that has been found out to a degree?
I'm far far from celebrating that. It's depressing as hell. But I'd guess that music crit is being kept alive by (and therefore populated by), as one of my colleagues said, the exact same people keeping record stores alive. Those are the diehards and the specialists and the people who care enough to buy product. And to read and reviews. And they listen to indie. And AnCo is #1 in pazz and Jop. And VW can sell 125K records on an indie label.
That is simplistic as hell, but I still think there are elements of sad sad truth there. People are asking "where are the non-rock/indie crits" and maybe they should be asking "where are the non-rock/indie readers." You could start by locating where they were. If they existed.
― scottpl, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:08 (fourteen years ago) link
(btw "where are the non-rock/indie fans." is not the same as "where are the non-rock/indie readers" btw. the answer to the first is, I assume, justjared, ew, people, perez hilton, etc. And maybe...that's all those listeners ever wanted to know about those artists other than their music.)
― scottpl, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:12 (fourteen years ago) link
aw, you know i love you, scott! and i def don't mean to sound cranky or antagostic either!
And i DEFINITELY don't p4k is a lark. I mean, i think the popularity of pitchfork has had a huge influence on indie culture being the dominant critical discourse and probably even has a huge effect on the singles list being more "songs" than "singles" these days and pushing certain songs into that arena. and i think we both agree that pfork is the dominant factor for the ACCELERATION of bands like dirty pro
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:28 (fourteen years ago) link
And maybe...that's all those listeners ever wanted to know about those artists other than their music.
cough
― maura, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:29 (fourteen years ago) link
"i def don't mean to sound cranky or antagostic either!"
!
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:33 (fourteen years ago) link
antagostic were robbed by the way. best death metal album of the year.
Wow- scottpl's post just keep getting better the more irritated he gets. I'm serious. That last one was awes.
― o. nate, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:36 (fourteen years ago) link
where are the non-rock/indie readers
This is where someone should introduce class and race, right? WELL IT'S NOT GONNA BE ME.
― T Bone Streep (Cave17Matt), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:42 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't think it's a matter of class and race. It's a matter of those who like to listen to music vs. those who like to think & read about it. Those who like to think & read about their music by and large listen to indie (if they don't listen to classical or jazz or samba).
― o. nate, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:46 (fourteen years ago) link
o really
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:47 (fourteen years ago) link
after jaymc posted some Alexa rankings earlier in the thread, I decided to go check out the numbers on some more music pubs and blogs. here's what i found:
PUBS
Drowned In Sound - 27,794The Quietus - 85,535Tiny Mix Tapes - 96,162Cokemachineglow - 161,925Dusted - 164,749
BLOGS
Brooklyn Vegan - 14,921 [?!]Idolator - 36,194Hipster Runoff - 52,139Largehearted Boy - 67,700Gorilla vs. Bear - 74,497You Ain't No Picasso - 162,415MBV - 176,732My Old Kentucky Blog - 234,986Fluxblog - 262,131Chromewaves - 279,463Said the Gramophone - 289,300
― kshighway (ksh), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:49 (fourteen years ago) link
This conversation is about to turn really lovely.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:49 (fourteen years ago) link
Oh sorry to offend yr delicate sensibilities Ned.
― T Bone Streep (Cave17Matt), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:50 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm not sure I was being really serious above. I didn't even vote in P'n'J. Carry on then.
― T Bone Streep (Cave17Matt), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:51 (fourteen years ago) link
The thing is, pop music doesn't have to generate as much relative interest in criticism and analysis, compared to indie, to be profitable or able to capture an audience. If (let's say) Rihanna sells 20 times as much as Animal Collective, she only has to have 5% as many fans interested in reading an intelligent, well-written review of her album, and it doesn't really matter if the other 95% just follow her through the gossip sites and fashion rags, if that review is well targeted toward its potential audience.
― some dude, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:53 (fourteen years ago) link
And I mean, it's not like there aren't drooling, barely literate indie rock fans either -- ever take a look at the Stereogum comments section?
Haha I was talking about o.nate's response, not your post!
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:54 (fourteen years ago) link
i don't know how me and scott end up arguing because i agree with like 95% of what he says
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:54 (fourteen years ago) link
Those who like to think & read about their music by and large listen to indie
Wow. Uh...I have no words. (Though it's nice to know where all the great "thinkers" have been hiding lately, I suppose.)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:54 (fourteen years ago) link
I've always kinda felt that the more common ground you have with somebody, the better and more interesting your arguments will be about what little you don't see eye to eye on. I mean, The Lex is my #1 most similar voter on glenn's site!
― some dude, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:56 (fourteen years ago) link
I was just as much of an artist completist and producer credit scavenger when I was 12 and listening exclusively to Twin Cities Top 40 radio as I was when I discovered college rock after being thoroughly repulsed by hair metal's ascendancy shortly thereafter. I strongly suspect most of the other people here were the same way and I also believe we aren't measurably different from most other voracious music heads.
wow I can't believe I got all the way through that without typing "STFU"oh, damn
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Two more Alexa rankings:
Metalsucks.net 48,828Blabbermouth.net 67,208
― neither good nor bad, just a kid like you (unperson), Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:58 (fourteen years ago) link
for the love of god everyone ignore that o nate post
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 21 January 2010 19:58 (fourteen years ago) link
hahahaha uh oh
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:00 (fourteen years ago) link
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:57 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah, this is a good point -- i was definitely a big overthinking nerd about music even when i listened exclusively to grunge and pop rap and classic rock.
― some dude, Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:00 (fourteen years ago) link
although tbh my tastes haven't advanced very far since then
Sorry, guys, please ignore my post. Scottpl said it better , "Where are the non-indie readers?" - and not the ones who read JazzTimes or Gramophone.
― o. nate, Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:01 (fourteen years ago) link
But I'd guess that music crit is being kept alive by (and therefore populated by), as one of my colleagues said, the exact same people keeping record stores alive. Those are the diehards and the specialists and the people who care enough to buy product.
This kind of says it all for me, really. The "diehards" we're talking about here aren't buying indie singles or metal albums, or used vinyl, but. . . "product."
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:04 (fourteen years ago) link
are you offended that that word makes the transaction sound all dirty and capitalist or something?
― some dude, Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:05 (fourteen years ago) link
i'm worried that it's reducing an argument to an incomprehensible abstraction
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link
anyway i disagree w/ that premise -- i'm betting the majority of the people sitting in front of their computers reading and writing about music all the time are the same ones constantly downloading leaks and never going to record stores. (xpost)
― some dude, Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link
ppl weren't clear on what "product" covers?
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link
ha, that's probably true xpost
another but important point to keep in mind is that there are only so many hours in the day, and if you work full time, esp. if you work somewhere where you can't really surf the internet, you have a really limited amount of absolutely "free" time to do whatever you want when you come home. so, out of the people who are music fans, most of them are going to want to spend that time downloading and listening to records rather than reading someone's analysis of those records, which seems healthy and sane. the people who are interested in criticism, esp. as anything beyond a buyer's guide, is always going to be a really small portion of even the hardcore music fan demographic, and most of those people are going to be other critics.
― kshighway (ksh), Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link
*another obvious but
Further to something o.nate (and sorta Scott) is saying: I think one reason a lot of written criticism is about "indie" or "underground" music is that for a long time writing was one of the main ways anyone could hear about that stuff, and that got wound into its whole culture. (E.g., zines -- because the music wasn't on the TV, the radio, etc.) When the internet came along, fans of niches had a lot more motivation to leap out and talk to one another than did people whose enthusiasms were already more in the common sphere. In the case of indie fans, they also had a history and vocabulary and toolkit for doing this through analytical writing like criticism, and on some level I think we're still very much seeing the effects of that. That REALLY doesn't mean they're more thoughtful about music than anyone else, just that writing/reading "thoughtful" stuff is maybe a bigger part of how they relate to music.
Of course, the same thing is sorta true of people who are really into, say, non-charting rap, which leads to the next thing: the way lots of indie fans learned to talk about music fits with our general idea of what constitutes informed, analytical, "proper" criticism. I worry less that the "critic" way of talking about music tends to correlate with liking particular music (people who all talk the same way are bound to have values in common), and worry more about making myself experience totally different ways of talking about music. This can be hard, because I'll freely admit that written, middlebrow criticism is the manner of talking about music that's the most fun and comfortable for me. But as a way of engaging with music, there's obviously nothing about it that's any more important than the chatter on the Hot 97 morning radio shows or among teenagers in comments boxes -- they're all just different spheres where people talk about music in different ways.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:18 (fourteen years ago) link
anyway i disagree w/ that premise -- i'm betting the majority of the people sitting in front of their computers reading and writing about music all the time are the same ones constantly downloading leaks and never going to record stores. (xpost)― some dude, Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:06 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― some dude, Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:06 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
uh leak dudes have been statistically proven to buy the most records at record stores
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:19 (fourteen years ago) link
i think those studies are kinda flawed tbh.
(are leak dudes super into susan boyle and taylor swift?)
― maura, Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:20 (fourteen years ago) link
was going to make a snarky post but realized it led to the idea that leak dudes are totes into the idea of boning Susan Boyle
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link
that's quite the dream you are dreaming there, dan
― maura, Thursday, 21 January 2010 20:26 (fourteen years ago) link