defend the indefensible: Hall and Oates

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War Babies is quite great - something like Philly soul boys channelling Bowie in concept. I see Hall and Oates as Todd Rundgren's less cosmic brothers, and I mean that in a good way.

― LC (Damian), Monday, 12 June 2006 20:48 (twenty years ago)

i'm mostly a free/avant jazz guy. but my idea of perfect pop songs always includes H&O's "Sara Smile", "She's Gone", and "Everytime You Go Away."

I also have a known weakness for ELO.

― J Arthur Rank (Quin Tillian), Monday, 12 June 2006 21:05 (twenty years ago)

chalk me up as stupid, I didn't realize until now that hall and oates had recorded "everytime you go away"; the paul young version was a much bigger hit, right?

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 12 June 2006 21:11 (twenty years ago)

Yes, v. much so.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 June 2006 21:12 (twenty years ago)

Not sure how I missed this thread until now - I mean, I'm the biggest H&O fan 'round these parts. They're the first group I ever truly loved, and I will do so always. They are FUCKING BRILLIANT, and have made some of the greatest pop (and soul!) songs evah. Matos OTM re: Abandoned Luncheonette, though he failed to note the titled track, which is gorgeous. And yes, "Your Imagination" is their greatest single song. Don't sleep on Daryl's Three Hearts in the Happy Ending Machine, either - it badly needs a remaster, but is better than you remember.

― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 14:52 (twenty years ago)

I'm totally fine with Three Hearts, the combination of Hall and Jeff Lynne worked better than most.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 15:02 (twenty years ago)

I finally got Three Hearts... on vinyl about a year ago. Beneath the superstar pomp and bombastic arrangements lies one of Hall's very best ballads: "Foolish Pride." The single "Dreamtime" is very good. The rest I'll let Thomas or someone else defend.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 15:04 (twenty years ago)

You mean David Stewart, Ned. An understandable error: both men had weaknesses for perms, paisley vests, cowboy boots, and Fisher Price psychedelia.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 15:05 (twenty years ago)

I don't get these guys at all but maybe I haven't heard enough *deep album cuts* or sump'm!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 15:09 (twenty years ago)

You mean David Stewart, Ned. An understandable error: both men had weaknesses for perms, paisley vests, cowboy boots, and Fisher Price psychedelia.

Hahah, all too true. :-) "Dreamtime" is mighty great. I haven't heard the album in years upon years -- had it on vinyl and somewhere in the late eighties I let it go...

I don't get these guys at all

#@!@#!$!@#!@#$!@$!@#$!#

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 15:29 (twenty years ago)

Kindly disregard my lukewarm comments of two years ago upthread - this is the thread that motivated me out of curiosity to go and buy that fine, fine Ultimate Hall & Oates double CD, and rediscover all those lost gems that I forgot, forgot I liked, or didn't know were by H&O in the first place; and all was right with the world. Thanks, ILM!

― Myonga Von Backpedaling (M. Agony Von Bontee), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 16:46 (twenty years ago)

Any casual listener curious for more is greatly encouraged to pick up Ultimate Hall & Oates - it's a really good distillation of their career down to 37 tracks. (I prefer my own 101-song CDR Go! on them, but then again, I'm a freak. For most humans, Ultimate will do the job nicely.)

― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 18:03 (twenty years ago)

Oh yes indeed. (Says the guy who just bought a copy for his dad for Father's Day.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:22 (twenty years ago)

How does Ultimate compare to the Best of ?
I guess Best of is just a singles collection?

― Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:24 (twenty years ago)

Ultimate includes all the minor chart hits.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:35 (twenty years ago)

I'm just gonna put in a good word for 1978's eternally underrated *Along the Red Ledge,* which I notice nobody has mentioned at all yet. Best tracks: "It's a Laugh," "Alley Katz," "Pleasure Beach."

> H20, although with the exceptions of "Open All Night" and "Family Man" (the latter of which they didn't write) it's got no single song as awesome as "Your Imagination" or "I Can Go For That." <

What about "One On One" or "Maneater"? Maybe even "Italian Girls"!

― xhuxk (xheddy), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:38 (twenty years ago)

I gave my other half Ultimate at Christmas...

― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:39 (twenty years ago)

The more I think about them, the more it seems like they're kinda timeless, in a way. I know the yacht rock types tried to tie them down a bit to their context but even so -- and the effect of that is to make me think about how they're like Steely Dan but even more accessible. Hell, I could see Fagen singing this:

My friends wonder why I call you all of the time
What can I say
I don't feel the need to give such secrets away
You think maybe I need help, no, I know that I'm right
I'm just better off not listening to friends' advice

When they insist on knowing my bliss
I tell them this
When they want to know what the reason is
I only smile when I lie, then I tell them why
(Because your kiss) your kiss is on my list
(Because your kiss) your kiss is on my list
Because your kiss is on my list of the best things in life

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:42 (twenty years ago)

I keep seeing Ultimate used at Reckless -- I guess I should pick it up one of these days.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:44 (twenty years ago)

*Ultimate* seems pretty bloated & unmanageable (like any album with 37 songs), but I still have my copy. Definitive best-of is still *Rock 'n Soul Part 1,* on vinyl. (I don't know *Best Of*, though.)

― xhuxk (xheddy), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:44 (twenty years ago)

Finally – someone defends "Italian Girls" ("I drink too much vino rosso!")!

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:47 (twenty years ago)

Rock 'N Soul Part 1 is superb, to be sure. (Hell, I even bought the remastered edition earlier this year.) Nicely concise and to-the-point - but for those looking for more than 12 selections, Ultimate is the way to go. Yes, jaymc, you should most definitely pick it up. Today. Go. Now.

I'll defend the hell outta "Italian Girls" - it's silly, sure, but isn't much of the best pop? Plus John's vocal is oddly endearing.

― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 19:58 (twenty years ago)

Gulliver really did blow though.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 20:10 (twenty years ago)

it's silly, sure, but isn't much of the best pop?

The best schlock, too.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 20:26 (twenty years ago)

"Private Eyes" rocketh the land.

That is all.

― The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 01:12 (twenty years ago)

yea it duz

― Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 01:25 (twenty years ago)

Strange, tho, that "Ultimate..." doesn't have their Temptations collaborations. "My Girl" was a sizable hit, wasn't it?

― Monty Von Byonga (Monty Von Byonga), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 10:12 (twenty years ago)

I see no reason why these guys should be "indefensible" in any way. A great act. Their version of "Everytime You Go Away" is better vocally and melodically than Paul Young's (which admittedly has a better instrumental arrangement)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 10:14 (twenty years ago)

Despite the glowing things I said about them above, I should note that I don't totally love "Private Eyes" and "Kiss On My List" and "You Make My Dreams", compared to lots of their other hits. Is that weird? They're okay, but they just seem by-the-numbers to me, somehow. I actually think "Adult Education" and "Say It Isn't So" and especially "Out of Touch" (which is *great*), all from a year or two later, are a lot better. (But after "Out of Touch," I can't think of any I care about. "Method of Modern Love" and "Everything Your Heart Desires" went top 10, so they must have had hooks, but I'll be damned if I can remember what those hooks sounded like.)

― xhuxk (xheddy), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 13:46 (twenty years ago)

Do you remember "Some Things Are Better Left Unsaid"? (All though Big Bad Boom hits kinda define ninth grade radio listening for me.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 13:55 (twenty years ago)

I wrote once that, New Order excepted, H&O absorbed Arthur Baker's dance tricks with greater fluency (and, needless to say, commerical potency) than any other act. "Say It Isn't So" and "Method of Modern Love" are marvelous for this reason. And the 12" of "Out of Touch" includes Big Bam Boom's "Dance on Your Knees" as an (extended) prologue; it rocks like a beast.

I like "Some Things.." a lot too.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 14:04 (twenty years ago)

OK, if the Hall-Lynne pairing worked, what about Sacred Songs, Hall's collab w/Robert Fripp, which I've never heard and have always been fairly curious about? (I'm guessing it's Worth Hearing Once, Maybe Twice. Which is fine, actually.)

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 14:08 (twenty years ago)

Matos, go here: daryl hall - sacred songs

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 14:13 (twenty years ago)

I like it, Mr. M; definitely give it a whirl.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 14:16 (twenty years ago)

Okay, who else has seen this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000066749/104-7754010-9820766?v=glance&n=130 .

I got it from the public library yesterday, and I must say: they are so cool it hurts. "Say It Isn't So," "Maneater" and "I Can't Go for That" are especially good, particularly for early MTV.

However, the videos for "Maneater" and "Family Man" made me think of this thread: ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=1289994 . I think that the answer might be that they are both meatheads AND towers of strength.

― trees (treesessplode), Thursday, 22 June 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

Niiiiiiiice.

"Adult Education" might be the best/worst video ever made, ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s22ufU-67iM&search=hall%20oates%20adult%20education

(Wasn't sure if I should post a YouTube thingy in here - is there some kind of ILX rule against that?)

― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Thursday, 22 June 2006 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

youtube is perfectly fine. it's ysi/rapidshare/zshare etc that is not.

― trees (treesessplode), Thursday, 22 June 2006 16:20 (nineteen years ago)

Well, then!

― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Thursday, 22 June 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

Weird. I put a YouTube link (i.e. where the screen should pop up) in here, but it doesn't show.

― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Thursday, 22 June 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

ditto on "private eyes"
that track is FIRE

― archipelago (archipelago), Thursday, 22 June 2006 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

John Oates amiably confessed in their "Behind the Music" segment that he and Daryl Hall made, "without exception," the worst videos of all time.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 22 June 2006 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

Their absolute worst video -- "Jingle Bell Rock." The look of 'delighted surprise' on Oates's face at one point might be the single worst acting job by anyone in the history of creation.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 June 2006 17:54 (nineteen years ago)

love the "Private Eyes" video, with the bug-eyed John peering out from behind Daryl's shoulders, in sync with the handclaps...

― hank (hank s), Thursday, 22 June 2006 17:57 (nineteen years ago)

>"private eyes"
that track is FIRE<

Uh wha?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 22 June 2006 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

"You Make My Dreams Come True" is such a fantastic song. I just listened to that one yesterday and it was totally killing me- the "rock" breakdown part is so tuff.

― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Thursday, 22 June 2006 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

The only way to unite ILM titans is to lock them in a karaoke room with H&O tunes.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 22 June 2006 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

As the biggest H&O fan on ILM, I get to play Simon Cowell for the karaoke, then. (The superspecial encore will be me taking on "Your Imagination.")

― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Thursday, 22 June 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

John Oates amiably confessed in their "Behind the Music" segment that he and Daryl Hall made, "without exception," the worst videos of all time.

I actually kinda like the one for I Can't Go for That. The rest of them make me laugh.

My favorite part is in Say It Isn't So, when a swirling light makes Darryl Hall's face look like a totally fucked mask. That or the really, really long table.

― trees (treesessplode), Thursday, 22 June 2006 23:36 (nineteen years ago)

youtube is perfectly fine. it's ysi/rapidshare/zshare etc that is not.

How about bandongo.com? :)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 23 June 2006 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

eleven months pass...

All the ILM All-Stars pinch-hitting on this thread.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 28 May 2007 00:38 (nineteen years ago)

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