The All-New STYLUS.

Karen: Your point about Kid A being a 90s album is admittedly a strong one and I should have said as much and I'm in 100% agreement with that and the thing about London Calling - it must have been released later in America as it was released in 1979 in the UK. (I'd go as far as saying it was more representative of the 60s than the 70s even.) I do think though that very few people when compiling these lists think 'What sums up the decade the best?' rather than the more likely 'Which album do I have fondest memories of' or 'Which have I played the most'. You're applying a set of criteria which - while admirable in some respects - aren't (IMHO) held by most.

My slightly snide post was aimed at the LOL-old-beats-ness/not forward looking=no critical merit of it.

And I'm not even getting annoyed with you but Edwin Pouncey (a usually brilliant writer/illo guy) and his recent review of the radiohead reissues, which was itself a less aggravating version of the sneering at the proles bile usually spouted by David Keenan, by proxy.

It's probably clear by now that, yes, I am a WIRE subscriber and probably secretly enjoy the deep spasms of anger it causes me on a monthly basis. Also for the record if I was forced to draw up a best albums of the decade poll (it would have to be at gunpoint) Kid A would definitely not make my top 20 and probably not make my top 30 BUT I think the context is important that as a mainstream rock record and as a follow up to OK Computer, it is (in its own context) a much more radical album - and more radically influential album - than, say, String Theory by Derek Bailey released in the same year, was in the field of improv guitar.

But, as I don't even really like radiohead that much. I'm going to stop now.

And reading back, the crux of our disagreement is a semantic one purely over the use of the word 'best'.

I know we should be able to be literal about it but a 'best of' list is never going to be more than a vaguely useful tool. 99% of the time they're either telling you something you already know or appalling you. Best, is taken by most people who fill in the form, to mean favourite.

Is this actually any different to the argument on the Pitchfork thread or should I just not bother reading it?

Well, here we're calling for a math ban.

Is this actually any different to the argument on the Pitchfork thread or should I just not bother reading it?

Take a wild guess.

Er, has anyone mentioned that Kid A is overrated shite?

nope youre the first!

"Is this actually any different to the argument on the Pitchfork thread or should I just not bother reading it?"

I haven't read the P4k thread, so I've no idea. Why do you find the idea of reading three paragraphs so taxing?

because when you've read 30 paragraphs of the same argument already you'd really rather not

Propose we set up an all-purpose thread for people to be surprised that po-faced alt-ish Rock with Meaningful Lyrics is popular with music critics and we can keep everything in one place.

We could call it "I Should Wilcocoa" or "Banging My Radiohead on the Keyboard".

^^^this dude should be listening to poststructuralist metal and Universe-fearing Mexican electronica, not getting het up about others' half-assed sideswipes at critical consensus

xposts to JD

"because when you've read 30 paragraphs of the same argument already you'd really rather not"

Fair enough. I don't have any extra-sensory powers so I guess there's little I can do to avoid the snarkiness.

XP: I'm on it man! Where's my boomkat password?

I'm warming up with a four album Throbbing Gristle session...

I placed Kid A high in my Stylus ballot, mainly because it's one of the tiny handful of albums from the start of the decade that I still play and enjoy on a regular basis. Re. Karen's projected demographics, I was 37 when it came out, so there was no particular sense of it being a generational touchstone or rite-of-passage soundtrack.

xp Now there's music I need to get into! Actually, I haven't seen The Endless Not on ANY kind of decade round-up. After seeing 20J&FG on our alt 70's poll I'm very much motivated to track it down. Only have 3rd Report. But that does have Hamburger Lady. Mmm.

Kid A is no more a 90s album than any album released in 2000

the 00s starts in 2000 because that's there the double zeroes start, fuck 'basic maths'

only one track on Kid A owes anything directly to Warp/IDM.

I know why people like to do decades wrong, but they are still wrong.

XP: I'm listening to that very album now! They've got a new album coming out soon I think (Nothing Short Of A Total War?) on Blast First Petite.

The Endless Not, Mission of Dead Souls, Heathen Earth, 2nd, 3rd and 20JFG and a 'hits' package are all on Spotify.

[/wrong thread abuse ends]

Doran - I was talking about the thread in general, not having a go at your post.

Nothing Short of a Total War is an old odds and sods cassette-only comp, is this just a CD reissue?

Oh god, of course! I use Spotify so much, and yet there are artists I never think to look for because I assume they're too obscure/alternative/weird. EVERYTHING IS WORTHY OF CORPORATE PROFANATION. [heads there now]

decade
–noun
1. a period of ten years: the three decades from 1776 to 1806.
2. a period of ten years beginning with a year whose last digit is zero: the decade of the 1980s.
3. a group, set, or series of ten.

So quit whining about it. The poll covered a ten year period, thus a decade. Every year is the start or end of a decade.

"Nothing Short of a Total War is an old odds and sods cassette-only comp, is this just a CD reissue?"

I thought it might be something like that. Blast First had a label anthology with a similar name in about 1989 I think. All I know is that they're supposed to be doing a new album soon.

Forgot about the Blast First! comp. Yeah it has the same title as the old TG tape.

"Doran - I was talking about the thread in general, not having a go at your post."

Yeah, I think I'm too oversensitive to be on a message board today. It's that heady mix of no sleep, no sunlight, a litre of strong coffee and four TG albums.

I asked people to vote for their "50 favourite albums of the last ten years". Simples.

I was just being mischievous. And right.

Kid A didn't get on my ballot paper because I'm not arsed by it. Or did it get on but really low down? I forget and I can't be arsed to check. I like The National Anthem; the rest, not so much.

Sound Of Silver was actually on one more ballot paper than Kid A, so on first-past-the-post / pure amount of votes it would've won. But we went for proportional representation or weighted voting or whatever.

It's people like you who'll let the Nazis in.

god "there was no year zero you see!" are the most annoying fucking savages in the world imo

i mean i dont think anyone's pleased with how this list came out but it's not the decade's fault

am not bothered by Kid A; am deeply bothered by Sound Of Silver, but that's another argument for another day

It's people like you who'll let the Nazis in.

Out-take from Kid A iirc

suppose that 'listened to the most' thing is going to be trotted out to explain why nearly 3/4 of the albums in the top 10 are from only the first 3 years of the 00s? simply had the most time to be listened to?

kid a is like the death of queen victoria to me, as described in that other thread. queen victoria died in 1901 but her death underlined the last of the 19th century. so kid a is a 90s album because 'the 00s' as a cultural entity didn't start until the morning of 12th september 2001. music recorded/released before that date is millennial rather than 00's and belongs to a different era

i was thinking of what i'd consider 'representative of' 00s music (as opposed to 'best of') and lcd soundsystem was on my shortlist. again, cannot stand the artist but do think it captures more of the sense of what people - or rather indie kids - were up to in the 00s. so i'd probably have been more satisfied (not happy but at least satisfied) if the numbers hadnt been fiddled

'the 00s' as a cultural entity didn't start until the morning of 12th september 2001

Why?

Think Fergie pissed herself onstage the night before?

I'm sympathetic to that argument -- I'd like to see it developed.

Perhaps the only true winner of this poll would be a CDR with that 'What's Goin' On' song with Fred Durst, 20 times over

I hope terrorists crash into the Chrysler building soon because I really think Contra has a shot at the 10 of the 10s list I'm thinking about.

Man, we don't need another decade full of songs about full body-cavity searches and how the Bilderberg group fixed the 2005 Eurovision result.

http://www.manchestereventsguide.co.uk/img/full/pop/lowry%20lecture%20stuart%20maconie%20feature.jpg

"Remember when Seth Rogen flew his MP3 Blog into the Free Trade Hall? What was all that about eh?"

god "there was no year zero you see!" are the most annoying fucking savages in the world imo

I agree. They should know that punk was year zero.

so i'd probably have been more satisfied (not happy but at least satisfied) if the numbers hadnt been fiddled

Yeah Stylus dudes you have totally failed in your task to make Karen Tregaskin happy.

Too white. Too weak.

Anyway all music nine years from now will be nothing but moody Vangelis soundscapes. Well, around LA at least.

just packed another bong so your stuck with me

trying to think of arbitrary date on which '00s' started couple of things were going on which collided to make 00s as a cultural era begin

first was obvious death of millennialism as a driving force as it was in the late 90s - omg the earth is gonna explode planes will fall out of the sky end times etc. kid a is still full of that kind of panic, thom yorke has made a career of it. wake up after yr millennium party and realise nothing has changed. none of us have flying cars or star trek transporter beams. new century looks a lot like the old one. but because of the release schedule of albums many albums that came out in 00 were recorded in 99 and still bear the scars of this millennisalism which now looks a bit silly (see also xtrmntr). the nme breathes a sigh of relief about not having to care about THE FUTURE any more and goes on to make a brand out of old rope guitars. now we're living in the future we don't have to worry about what the future sounds like any more

second thing that happens is political situation in us - election (?) of bush and terrism etc. us in the 90s had been culturally rather like uk is right now. i.e. shocking disillusionment of arty-farty types realising that liberal governments can be just as corrupt and horrible and shit as the conservative ones and accompanying moral and cultural stagnation. us has a couple of short sharp shocks of rabid right wing and suddenly country has to galvanise a counterculture again. do you have a disgruntled underclass simmering with the kind of resentment that makes great art ready to leap into action? yes you do. black american culture rushes into the gap and you have the real dynamic lifeforce behind the us (and by extension imported uk) pop chart resurgence (but also angry middle american nu metal and trustafarians in williamsburg have a bit of a go)

the uk in the 00s is where the us was in the 90s. with badly behaved 'liberals' in charge the counterculture is doomed from the getgo. enter a scheming young man with the brilliant idea of combining hugely popular big brother style reality television with the lay-everything-bare deconstructionism of the klf's manual. win! win! win! bill drummond invented simon cowell you know

technological change. in previous decades, change has been driven by new technology. the invention of the electric guitar, the invention of the synth, the invention of sequencing, the invention of sampling these things changed music irrevocably and created new music that broke our heads or at least our conceptions of what music could be. the huge technological leap forward of the 00's has been the speed and ease with which ALL MUSIC EVER CREATED can be instantly accessed. perhaps that other thread had a point - i said we were too old and out-of-touch to see what the great new development and change of the 00's music is. the problem is i'm old and i'm thinking of change and progress in the wrong way. the change is the invention of this virtual musical time machine. with everything from ever so easy to get hold of the past is no longer a foreign country. what looks like ver kids of today going backwards is actually them going forwards in a different way. 17 year olds listening to the music of their grandparents! that breaks my head really

loads of x-posts coz it takes me forever to type anything when i'm stoned

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41286000/jpg/_41286732_luna_evanna_big.jpg

Oops wrong thread.

omg everyone CHECK IT OUT!!! i got the latest harry potter IN HARDCOVER

noodle i was enjoying it more when trying to imagine how it applied to this thread