The All-New STYLUS.

Why not? It's essentially exactly the same argument you make when Tim complains about certain critics getting excited about post-dubstep house and techno and not taking UK funky seriously. (xpost)

a calamity of music journalism

The worst kind of calamity!

ignition was massive in the uk and there are a lot of british writers on stylus. pretty sure in ireland that it is the only r kelly single that is known by most ppl, maybe i believe i can fly or the worlds greatest, but only cos of the movies they were in rilly

I mean, the difference being that UK funky could probably do with that sort of critical support and the multi-million pound globally successful and utterly ubiquitous R&B industry really doesn't. You're making an underdog out of a triumphant winner.

I never got Ignition either (and didn't vote for it at all), but I'm kind of glad it won.

only if you believe the sole purpose of criticism is to help sell records - of course this is important but that is not why you or anyone else reads music writing

xp

"ignition was massive in the uk and there are a lot of british writers on stylus. pretty sure in ireland that it is the only r kelly single that is known by most ppl, maybe i believe i can fly or the worlds greatest, but only cos of the movies they were in rilly

― plaxico (I know, right?), 2010. január 8."

Perhaps this shows that globalization is still has a way to go. I've lived in the whole decade in the conviction that 'Ignition' was never a big hit. Wow.

if r kelly wasn't an evil child fucker then ignition would be the greatest song ever

Nick, why are you glad then? I'm really curious.

also it's nice to know that there's a world where electrik red, richgirl, vistoso bosses, cassie, meshell ndegéocello, teedra moses, tweet, j*davey, lloyd et al are "globally successful and utterly ubiquitous" but sadly it is not the actual real world

xps to matt

Why not? It's essentially exactly the same argument you make when Tim complains about certain critics getting excited about post-dubstep house and techno and not taking UK funky seriously.

my argument here is that people DO take uk funky seriously, it's just that post-dubstep bobbins is good too, so it's not actually as sidelined as tim thinks it is.

whereas in terms of critical respect, r&b and soul are definitely sidelined - either ignored or dismissed or seen as inherently flawed genres.

and the reason i'd like this not to be so is that i'd quite like to see a lot more smart writing about great music

Yeah but a lot of those acts can't even sell records or get adequate promotion IN AMERICA which means there is a different and bigger and more significant problem which would be a far better target for your critical ire than whether they fit into the indie crit canon. You're railing against the wrong enemy here.

why does 'smart writing about great music' always seem to equal 'opinions i agree with about music i like'

That said I've got so used to eyerolling at lazy criticism of dance music that it barely registers by now. It actually doesn't really matter.

oh i am angry w/the music industry as well - this is a recurring theme with me, surely you know by now! - but that's an entirely separate issue! ideally i'd like my favourite music to sell well and get critical respect, but these two things shouldn't have anything to do with each other. i mean most publications don't seem to have any problem with covering lots of other relatively obscure acts, right?

i wasn't aware that stylus considered itself an indie-specific site - nick, do you consider it indie-specific?

This is all very amusing given the rnb single at #1 in the list (undeservedly so IMO).

zeus; Just because everyone at Stylus loved it at the time - it was a single that seemed ubiquitous both on TV and radio where I was, and in the internet circles I moved in, especially the ones with Stylus writers. I'm glad it won because it's a very Stylus choice, if that makes sense.

I think, when you organise a list like this, you become very... comfortable, with the idea that the list is the product of consensus, and thus not going to be very close to your own choices. Or, at least, very much less enraged by "where's my fucking favourite, are you saying I don't matter?!" thoughts.

ideally i'd like my favourite music to sell well and get critical respect

this seems like a rubbish objection

Lex; I thought Stylus was some poncey Wire-esque publication when I started writing for it, dealing mainly with uber-obscure and experimental electronic bollocks that no one buys. Obv. that changed quite a lot. I'd say that we were "independent"; take that how you like.

like, so do the ppl who make these lists, which is why they picked music they liked, this seems kinda obvious

Lex; if people who want to write reasoned and intelligent and OTM criticism about r'n'b etc actually wrote it as much as people who want to write pointless verbiage about shitty ego-indie wrote that, then, y'know, it'd exist.

i do and it does - you'll note that my main criticism has been of a needless, ill-thought-out bullshit swipe at an entire genre that barely makes sense

A "needless, ill-thought-out bullshit swipe at an entire genre" that doesn't exist, or, at least, isn't "needless, ill-thought-out bullshit swipe at an entire genre" at all, in the slightest; you taking umbrage at it only reveals your own hangups, not those of the writer. You're reading it as an affront when it's just an observation.

Lex it's a really job you're not massively emotionally invested in indie bands in the way you are with rnb because the lazy swipes they get (usually two years after they were fashionable) would have you raging virtually day in day out.

Remove Bookmark from this Thread

Hi everyone what did I miss

Radiohead won!

And R.Kelly.

And I, indie-fart that I am, was much happier about the latter winning than the former.

but are you troubled or at least intrigued that the album top 20 features no RnB artist?

It's not stopping me sleeping.

good, that would be OTT

"it's a singles genre"

btw its more an observation than a criticism and has been made of both Stylus and Pitchfork in the past. maybe the singles lists exclude as much as the albums lists really (its just that what is excluded or demoted differs between the two) but might be interesting to see if this decade they become closer matched.

ok "Ante Up" in top 20 all is forgiven

― The Reverend, Friday, January 8, 2010 3:34 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

xp after reading the blurb, I take that back

― The Reverend, Friday, January 8, 2010 3:38 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'm still scratching my head over the decision to list the remix instead of the original, and never once refer to it as the remix

xp after reading the blurb, I take that back

― The Reverend, Friday, January 8, 2010 3:38 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no fucking kidding. jesus.

btw feel free to take this as sour grapes since i wrote something like 70 reviews for Stylus and nobody thought to invite me to this party, but the fact that even in death Stylus has to keep reaffirming its also-ran status by doing a list with such a similar format and results as Pitchfork's is pretty fuckin' depressing and honestly the site's legacy deserves better

Now that this is all over I'm welcome to discuss the site's "legacy," since, as I pointed out a little while ago upthread, other people clearly have different ideas than I do.

The similar format is because, well, they're lists; suggestions of innovative list format very much welcomed.

Similar results is because, well, more than a handful of Stylus writers moved onto Pitchfork!

You weren't invited because, well, I don't actually know who you are.

Also many people were invited and had the email end up straight in their spam, sadly; we caught a few people via here, the ex-staff board, and word-of-mouth, but I'm sure other people slipped through.

even i know who some dude is nick!

Yeah but I didn't know who YOU were for about six months. I'm still not sure; Henry?

burt_stanton

Karen T is Dom, if that helps

I know who Karen T is, Mr Ewing.

i'm Marcello, duh-brain

my name is A1 $hipley -- my staff board privs got revoked when I got too busy to keep doing album reviews on the reg, which was a matter of months before the site folded

ok, that's enough. that's the fourth person i've been accused of being in the past week

i'd never heard of stylus until i started posting on this board tbh but from the regard it seems to be held in these parts i guess i was just hoping for a different looking upper eschelon

ok fifth counting 'mr ewing' now

is anyone who they say they are around here? do you have any idea how weird this looks to a newbie?