― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 2 May 2004 16:52 (twenty years ago) link
Authentic nihilism is fine, I mean, I suppose Eyehategod are somewhat nihilistic, and I enjoy them, but not ignorant apathetic blind incoherent rantings by groups such as Slipknot. Seriously, the journal entries in my high school journal had more soul, and they were completely stupid. The lyrics to "Surfacing" I especially can't stand because they're truly sophomoric and every kid on the planet quotes it as the Bible nowadays, and I think it's the wrong thing to be quoting.
Even ignoring that, though (cuz I like lots of bands with bad lyrics), it's their music that is truly not compelling as well. I heard enough of their self-titled album to know I hated them.
and as far as screaming goes, well, I like that too, but nu-metal screams irritate the hell out of me.
As for Deftones, them I actually like, at least, the last two albums. I like the style they've come to embrace on the last two albums.
― uh, Sunday, 2 May 2004 17:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Alan Conceicao, Sunday, 2 May 2004 20:21 (twenty years ago) link
― uh, Sunday, 2 May 2004 22:40 (twenty years ago) link
― CAss (CAss), Sunday, 2 May 2004 22:41 (twenty years ago) link
the new vocalist (on the as yet to be released KE new album) sounds pretty good too...last one supposedly fucked up his voice or got nodules. gee, wonder why :)
― uh, Sunday, 2 May 2004 22:43 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Sunday, 2 May 2004 22:58 (twenty years ago) link
― CAss (CAss), Sunday, 2 May 2004 22:59 (twenty years ago) link
What I do consider them, however, is downright boring. :)
― uh, Sunday, 2 May 2004 23:01 (twenty years ago) link
― CAss (CAss), Sunday, 2 May 2004 23:07 (twenty years ago) link
When it comes to metal, I'm still a suck for the more traditional styles, though the artsy stuff metal expanded into I love as well. as far as metal goes, I like:
Annihilator, Exhorder, Death, Dying Fetus, Bathory, Cathedral (first album at least, only one i have), Morbid Angel, Immolation, Cryptopsy, My Dying Bride, Pain of Salvation, Rhapsody, Slayer, Celtic Frost, Nile, Nuclear Assault, early Deicide, Pantera's 5th-7th albums, Darkthrone, Suffocation, some Hypocrisy, Kreator, Sodom, Emperor, Cradle of Filth, Satyricon, Testament, Judas Priest, Maiden, Sabbath (ozzy era), mid-late period Mayhem, Anthrax (tho only periods of em), Suicidal Tendencies, King Diamond, Mercyful Fate, Ulver, Malignancy, Carcass, Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, Witchery, Strapping Young Lad, The Haunted, Are You God?, Brutal Truth, Meshuggah, Type O Negative, Cynic, Pessimist, old Metallica, most Megadeth, Halford, Opeth, Nevermore, Savatage, Entombed, The Crown, Soilwork, Possessed, Sigh, Impaled Nazarene, Eyehategod, and shit, ther'es more i'm forgetting probably but you get the idea...some artists as well that I own cds by but don't have enough interest in to call em a favorite.
but I listen to a lot of other shit though too. I'll admit I have a huge affinity for motown and classic r&b/soul music, but as far as purchasing goes I've just recently gotten around to doing it. Al Green, Lenny Williams, stuff like that...
I also listen to quite a bit of rap (Tribe Called Quest, Dre/Snoop, The Coup, Outkast, Deltron 3030, shit like that...dr. dooom), a small amount of punk although that collection as of yet is criminally small (some artists I like are the punk era of Suicidal Tendencies, Misfits, Black Flag, Bad Religion, Ignite, Nomeansno, Minor Threat, Zeke, Descendents...)
bit of progressive, but not a huge collection...I love old Genesis, and King Crimson, though.
anything really. Jeff Buckley, Stevie Wonder, whatever floats my boat.
― uh, Sunday, 2 May 2004 23:31 (twenty years ago) link
― CAss (CAss), Sunday, 2 May 2004 23:42 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 3 May 2004 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
Pretty much. If the lead singers of Shadows Fall and Slipknot changed right now, each band would sound like the other.
― Alan Conceicao, Monday, 3 May 2004 02:35 (twenty years ago) link
Nah. Slipknot would still sound like an amped-up late-period Sepultura, and Shadows Fall would still sound like late-80s Anthrax. Two totally different sounds.
And as far as this goes:
>not everybody who listens to Slipknot is a dumbfuck, I'm just stating that's a large portion of their fanbase.
A large portion of everybody's fanbase is dumb folks. Dumb folks are the majority; that's how you can recognize smart people when you meet 'em - they stand out.
― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 3 May 2004 11:50 (twenty years ago) link
What would the "metal edges" be? The guitars, bass, drums, and vocals?
And "pop" as in "poppy" or "popular" or "top 40" or what?
I would say more punky than poppy. ya know, hardcore. Moshcore. whatever you wanna call it.
I still say Iowa beats Nebraska for heartland ennui anyday.
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 3 May 2004 12:58 (twenty years ago) link
Slipknot make me itchy. I still can't really figure out if this is a good thing or not. Its probably just that monolithic in-the-red production that gives the music that sweaty, claustrophobic feel. I mean i can listen to hours of death/grind/black/noise metal and mostly its just soothing to me. Like ambient music.
Ever hear Ross Robinson's old band Detente from the 80's? They had that same itchy quality. Not least because Dawn Crosby (R.I.P.) was the singer and her scary screech could often be extra-human in its ability to be creepycrawly. (I still listen to her band Fear of God's Whithin The Veil a lot. That album is proto-nu, proto-grrl, proto-Kitty, proto-lotsofthings really.)
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 3 May 2004 14:07 (twenty years ago) link
Eh....What Scott said. I mean, I don't even LIKE Slipknot (though they're my 11 year old son's favorite band) and I know the phrase above is completely ridiculous. I mean, ABBA or the Knack or Run DMC were a pop band with metal edges, you know? Slipknot aren't catchy enough to be pop, and I they have no edges that AREN'T metal, near as I can hear. Slipknot are a metal band with, like Ministry edges. Or Killing Joke edges. Or something. Mainly in the drums. And Ministry and Killing Joke were basically metal bands, when you get down to it.
― chuck, Monday, 3 May 2004 14:54 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Monday, 3 May 2004 15:13 (twenty years ago) link
― uh, Monday, 3 May 2004 15:21 (twenty years ago) link
Well, the lyrics to that song are pretty sophomoric (but that really isn't important to me). But musically it's actually one of the only interesting tracks on that album.
"Slipknot make me itchy. I still can't really figure out if this is a good thing or not. Its probably just that monolithic in-the-red production that gives the music that sweaty, claustrophobic feel."
That's one of the few things I like about them.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 3 May 2004 15:29 (twenty years ago) link
Not that I'm against screaming, half the bands I listen to have shrill vocals. I just think that was the average Slipknot template on that album.
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 15:31 (twenty years ago) link
Well, different strokes...but anyway, I hate the idea of spending time debating the (admittedly dubious) merits of Slipknot.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 3 May 2004 15:37 (twenty years ago) link
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 15:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:23 (twenty years ago) link
Are you guys hearing a different mix of the "Left Behind" single than I am or something? the song, I mean, that's so damned catchy that I haven't heard it since the week it came out and I can still sing it from memory? and I have a really shitty memory?
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:24 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:28 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Monday, 3 May 2004 17:29 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Monday, 3 May 2004 17:31 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:38 (twenty years ago) link
I'm thinkin' out loud here about something that I've sort of thought-some-about rather than thought-through, so sc. grain/s of salt etc., but I'd say this: there was a point in the '80s when metal was part of the pop universe (Poison, Motley Crue, GnR) though this was also the exact point when the word "metal" started to get a little slippery (Venom, Slayer, Celtic Frost: do these bands have anything in common with their hairy contemporaries?). To my ears, the mainstream/chartmetal types such as those profiled by Spheeris (who were certainly pop bands) lost the battle: metal as I'd mean it now constitutes black metal, death metal, thrash & thrash revivals, etc., all fairly anti-pop both in the songs they write and in their cultural positioning. There's catchy metal that I still wouldn't think of as pop but is kinda pop-informed/pop-bearing (most power-metal to thread, esp. Nightwish & Kamelot, both of whom I love despite myself), but Slipknot seem to occupy a unique or almost-unique position (what are they to Korn, and what's Korn to them?): three minute hard-as-fuck (compared to what else is radio-ready anyhow: Linkin Park, say?) songs following a pretty rigid verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-chorus structure. And with hooks, though they're hooks that aren't really enthuastic about being hooks.
So, no: not "if catchy = not metal." But! Slipknot-qua-entity seem more solidly a pop act than a metal band. I know Mike at Metal Maniacs takes all manner of abuse in the letters page over his support of Slipknot, and I suspect/guess that this axis is where the question lies.
But, again, I just like talkin'/thinkin' about Slipknot for some reason.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:49 (twenty years ago) link
I find a lot of "hooks" on Mercyful Fate's "Melissa" and that's definitely not a "pop" album.
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:49 (twenty years ago) link
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:51 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:52 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:01 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:02 (twenty years ago) link
Here's the track-listing of a tape I made Anthony Miccio a month or two ago:
Side 1
Midnight Sun - Metal Gods Heavenly - The World Will Be Better Human Fortress - The Dragon's Lair Angel Dust - The Human Bondage Blind Guardian - Battlefield Alice Cooper - Triggerman Howling Syn - Black Moon Hammerfall - Hearts Of Fire Danzig - Wicked pussycat Dream Evil - Save Us
Side 2
Dio - Killing The Dragon Helloween - The Departed (Sun Is Going Down) Freedom Call - Flying High Danzig - Kiss The Skull Dream Evil - Break The Chains Star One - High Moon The Kovenant - Star By Star Witchery - Omens Katatonia - Ghost Of The Sun Katatonia - Sleeper
Not all power/symphonic, but all really really catchy!
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:09 (twenty years ago) link
RE: the kidz and Slipknot-my dad was working for child protective services in upstate new york and he had the same sort of thing to say about that bond between the kidz and Slipknot that John did.
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:13 (twenty years ago) link
Well, Slayer and Poison were both on the *Less Than Zero* soundtrack. And Venom's "Teacher's Pet" is more like Van Halen's "Hot For Teacher" than like anything by, say, Cannibal Corpse or whoever. And I always thought GnR's "My World" sounded like a Celtic Frost song. And Tom G Warrior was a fan of Poison's debut album, not to mention of fan of glam rock (like Roxy Music, for instance, who Celtic Frost covered). And they all had loud guitars. So...yeah. They do.
― chuck, Monday, 3 May 2004 18:14 (twenty years ago) link
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:18 (twenty years ago) link
xpost
― chuck, Monday, 3 May 2004 18:19 (twenty years ago) link
No, Motley Crue sucks eggs.
Slayer were responsible for such masterpieces as Reign In Blood, Hell Awaits, Divine Intervention, and Show No Mercy.
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:23 (twenty years ago) link
Yea, so Motley Crue sang "Shout at the Devil". Even that had glammy touches to it:
"HE'LL BE THE LOVE IN YOUR EYESHE'LL BE THE BLOOD BETWEEN YOUR THIGHSAND THEN HAVE YOU CRY FOR MORE"
Hardly the same thing as:
"Waiting the hour destined to dieHere on the table of hellA figure in white unknown by manApproaching the altar of deathHigh priest awaiting dagger in handSpilling the pure virgin bloodSatan's slaughter, ceremonial deathAnswer his every command"
The first song almost has me think the devil is David Bowie
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:25 (twenty years ago) link
Plus, Slayer usually knew when to throw in an interesting riff fill or change it up a bit. They did grow more commercial and "pop" ish towards the Seasons in the Abyss era, though.
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:26 (twenty years ago) link
Oh, sure, it has some great thrash anthems ("Hallowed Point", "War Ensemble", "Born of Fire"), but christ, "Blood Red" and "Expendable Youth" might as well be the same, boring, Rolling Stones outtake...and even the title track is sort of boring.
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:29 (twenty years ago) link
Seasons of the Abyss wasn't quite up to the gold standard of the previous two, but it was still pretty great. They really seemed to be on an unbelievable roll at the time. I love "Blood Red". One of my favorite tracks on the record.
― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:33 (twenty years ago) link
All those bands listed above have a lot of the same influences. Doesn't that give them all something in common.
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:34 (twenty years ago) link
Slayer were at their most templatic on everything Diabolus and beyond, and Seasons.
― uh (eetface), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:36 (twenty years ago) link