Jay Z/ Nas and other hiphop throwdowns...resurrected. Part 4

What up What up, WHazzup!? It's the J-D-O-L-O with that keelo flow! Qoolout thanks for the headsup on the continuing of the most banging thread in history. This thread vet is still alive. Nas vs Jay-z & other HipHop throwdowns...ummmmm. Just got interesting with 50 vs Ja Rule....Hip Hop news....Ya know I'm from CT, but,50 cent just bought a mansion in Farmington Ct (small ass town), just 20 minutes from Waterbury aka "Dirty Waters", from whom? Mike Tyson's ex-wifey who got the mansion as part of the divorce settlement years back. Tyson ex-wifey sold it to ol' Curtis Jackson for a cool mil (Tyson bought it for 3.5 mil). CT was starting to get on the map the last couple of years with stars coming through (And 1 included)! Now with 50 as a Ct resident paying CT taxes (Highest in the whole nation), CT is now officially gully. And it's not far from NYC. 50 let me the first to welcome you to the constituion state.

What up Hillis 3K!? Remember those battles between you, me and qoolout? Who was that dude Squirrel Police!? (LOL). 3:16 what up kid!? (What?). And H-Wood what up?!. What else?

Lloyd Banks got skills, period. I can say a favorite Banks line all day but it will take up a whole thread. Punchlines are just ridiculous.

All-First rookie squad (Banks, J-Hood, Juelz Santana, Joe Buddens, Cassidy and Young Chris).

Ja-Rule, stop biting Pac's identity.

Irv Gotti, YOU ARE NOT SUGE so stop trying.

What's up with Source dedicating a whole issue trying to ruin 50/Aftermath/Shady. XXL is da shit!!

Sheek's new album: Sleeper album of the year (Phat tape that will get critically acclaimed but slept on by the masses.

Minesota Timbos got the squad.

One more thing......It's all about D-Block (Two guns up) One!!

First off, it's "sunned." Second, who is John Walker Lindh? Third, don't be on some wanna be The Best shit like that... lol

Second, I did NOT "almost" admit anything, Foolout! I said I was pissed because I thought Andre 3000 was singing on every song and did no rapping. For example, if Jadakiss came out with his next CD and you were sampling through and all Kiss did was sing, you'd probably be disappointed at first because you like it when Kiss spits mad nice lines and not his singing ability, or lack thereof. Now, the CD itself might not be bad at all, but that still wouldn't affect your initial reaction. See, you always gettin carried ass bamma, I was livid because I thought he ddn't rap none, because I like Outkast as rappers. I hadn't actually listened to the whole CD, so how could I say it suck? MORON! And So Fresh So Clean had no point... what's yours? The song was still tight. And even though Kiss is talented, don't act like he comes out with a new topic with every verse. EVERY Kiss verse is about how tough D-Block is or how gutter Kiss is. EVERY verse. He's just mad nice when he does it. But on a side note, that Mighty D-Block song by Sheek is tight. And I haven't heard much about Jae Hood, but he's tight on that song.

And the Redskins run the NFC East??? Negro, they lost to the only NFC East team they played! They beat the Vickless Falcons and the 0-4 Jets. Whoop dee damn doo. And New England ain't all that impressive, either. You're guaranteed to lose to Dallas at least once (as usual, like clockwork, etc). New York came to DC and beat you, so they'll probably do the same in NY. And you haven't faced the new and improved McNabb and Eagles. Tell Lavuerneus Coleslaw and Co they can feast on the wack teams of the NFL all they want, they still won't make no noise on the playoff scene.

What up J-Dolo?! Dirty Waters, huh? D-Water Block! Dirt set, Dirt set, Dirt set, Dirt set, Dirt set... But, really, that Santana Town video and song suck. Anyway, it's good to have another vet back.

Enough knowledge dropped, I'm gone.

I'm out like the future 7-9 Redskins. Peace!

I just like to say I like OutKast, and each record they have put out has been solid. I'm not particularly a fan South Rap, but OutKast is the one group that has my respect. The next would be Scarface & Bun B from UGK. I really got into them a little bit after Midnight Marauders by ATCQ. At that point we saw the boom of Gangster Rap. That was when I picked up "Southernplaylistc..." it was an album you could vibe too. It wasn't all Kill, Kill, Kill! which sometimes you need to step out of that mode of rap and just relax and listen to the sounds. I liked the fact OutKast used a lot of acoustic bass in their music. I appreciate this era of music cause the instruments used were more detailed. Instead of a beat machine its like 36 Mafia uses, or Just Blaze butchering great jazz song with speeding the voice up. The production was more balanced to accompany the voice. Dre's eccentric rhymes makes him more indivisual with his music, and can leave a greater impression on a song than your typical rapper. Cause every nigga can rap (Chingy is proof of that), but can they make music. I think OutKast has done that on a consistent basis. Next to A Tribe Called Quest they make the best Radio friendly music. Yeah sometimes it doesn't make sense, but the whole premise is to have fun with it. Thought provoking rhymes are good for radio too, but sometimes people need wild out. OutKast does that.

By the way John Walker Lindh was the fool who joined the Taliban. I think he is being charged for treason. Also how dare you trash the name of "Lavern & Shirely Coles???" only I can do that. I love the dude cause he's FSU blood, but that name is very gay. Maybe not as much as Ashley Leile, but still pretty gay.

Anyways I'm out!

Santana made my list because he, just like the others, have skills and he's making noise right now the NYC(Mecca of hiphop) and beyond. They all have that potential to be some of the nicest in years to come, as Jay-z and Nas and all the great one have had: potential to change the game. But at the same time, just like everything else in life, potential doesnt necessarily equal success, or even critically acclaimed. Look how we all salivated when we heard a Young Bleek rap for the first time (And we all were dont try to front now)and Hova even went so far as to annoint him as the next great one in rap. Now what do you think of him? My point exactly. But maybe Jay-z annointed him too soon, but Hova saw something in him that made him say that (And we saw something in him too but are too proud to admit that now). But Bleek did go gold and second did go platinum, but it does help to have Jay-z, ja-Rule, and Beans on alot of the joints, and we still see him as an average rapper who really didn't get THAT much better with age. And I think Santana was better than Bleek was at that age. Cannibus was probably THE most HYPED RAPPER in history (Dude had Lebron-type hype in the mixtape and overall hiphop scene) and look what happened. Where is he now? Probably over at Iraq somewhere or something. Well I gotta go. Peace out to the original thread vets as well as the newbies.

As for this bamma Hillis (that's right, you get your very own paragraph). We ( the mighty mighty Redskins) have the best record in the NFC East(997) dummy. Thus, we run the NFC East. It doesn't matter who we lost to. As of this date, right now, we have the best record in the entire division. And that my friend is your first lesson in football 101. If you got a better record than the other clowns in the NFC East, you are at the top, even if them clowns got lucky and beat you. Your next lesson is that L. Coles is ripping new holes and maybe you didn't know that since you can't see the entire games down THEAH, but when the playoffs kick off, you'll see him, primetime live on TV. And I wasn't saying Jada has a moral everytime he spits, but at least I can come away from the song and say "Kiss was talking about the hood," or "Kiss was spittin' about gettin' money" or "how he grew up" or etc. Now can you please tell me what did you get from "So fresh and Clean?" And then tell me what you got from "Everybody move to the back of the bus." Look, I'm not knocking them, well I kinda am, but I'm not saying you can't like them, I was just asking "WHY?!?" Just like Missy fans. When it comes to Missy and rapping, she sucks so I want to know why peeps like her. That's all. Now leave me alone before I SUNkiss you like the soda (Beans).

Thanks J-Dolo, I almost bought Sheek's cd twice. The last time I even got in line with it until cuz told me it was 15 bucks. Now I have an excuse to get it, but if it's as bad as Style's, I'm coming to CT with bad intentions. Oh yeah, I heard this joint with Kiss today, but the DJ ain't play all of it so I don't know what song it was. Somebody let me know; I think it might be the one Hillis was speaking on eariler. Jada says, And my crack is two tone/ but I had to switch up my spot cause it became a drug free school zone. Lastly, Jae Hood is by far my first round pick; I just hope cuz don't let me down like Bleek. But I did like Bleek on "Is that your Chick?" Yeah, I know Missy was on there too. Oh yeah, one more thing. There was a discussions going on here and I wanna ask y'all. Who is better R. Moss or T. Owens? I like Randy's game a lil bit more, but I really don't know whose better.

im swangin, about to rip the kizzerp, sippin on my syzzurp
if you buy first from me then you just bought a dizzert
swangas on my whizzeel, platinum in my grizzeel
me and doby b stay blowin on some kizzeel
im higher than a hizzeel, mind on a mizzell
southside of h town show me how you fizzeel
now you see we ball, now you see we rich
I represent the legendary screwed up clique
i wreck i-45 i wreck two screw tapes
im three wheelin, poppin trunk, goin down fuqua
so move out my way cz im ridin double r
mj right behind me in a lexus bubble car

Trife, you talkin this nonsense about me dissin BIG and you dissin Kast by saying that JUST BLAZE is better? How is it that Jay-Z can use BIG's lines and catch hell, but everybody gives Just Blaze props for samplin 60s and 70s beats? Even though Just Blaze's beats are generally nice, let's not make the mistake of actually thinkin its because he's talented! Puffy did the same thing, too, and he got clowned for it. If Just Blaze would actually come out with anything ORIGINAL then we could judge him seriously as a producer. If anything, Just Blaze has an ear for tight old school music. But who doesn't?! Outkast on the other hand actually comes up with original beats made by live bands and not just samplin Marvin Gaye and The Temptations. Now, I agree, I love DJ Paul's beats, so I disagree with H*WOOD on that and that Just Blaze "butchers" songs. But definitely, Just Blaze's talent is minimal considering his beats are ENTIRELY speeded up samples.

I think Juelz Santana is wack, even though he be havin me rollin sometimes (i.e. "get in the car, don't touch nothin, sit in the car..." LMAO!) I never heard his earlier stuff so maybe I need to steal, er borrow some mp3s from Kazaa.

Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set. Really, now, that ain't tight.

Is it just me or is the worse line in rap right now, "They be like 'Ooh, he the man' when I'm really a Thundercat" by Murphy Lee off of Shake Ya Tailfeather??? What in the name of all that is holy... Thundercat? Why would anyone go around bragging they a Thundercat? What's the benefits? Why not "Super Friends" or a "G.I. Joe?" Thundercat? THUNDERCAT???

Damn right, I get my own paragraph, young... But you ain't nothin but a sentence to me... nah, fuck it, I'll give you a paragraph. Look, you Crimson Tide ass nigga - i.e. Bama/bamma (Get it? Two Pacs/2Pac's?), I like Outkast for the exact same reason as H*WOOD and other reasons like they actually broaden their horizons and come with something new, while still keeping the soul and funk that connects with the blackness (JWL)in(dh) me. And negro, So Fresh, So Clean's topic is obvious. They're the coolest niggas in the game! Or as Andree 3000 said, "the coolest muthafunkas on the planet." How did you miss that? It's basically like Kiss sayin he the baddest nigga with guns, dope, money, etc. They just sayin they the coolest pimps. Now Rosa Parks is out there, and I can't grasp a specific direction, but the song itself is still tight. If I had to guess, I'd say it's about how Outkast can't focus on past success and must keep it new and fresh. Now, Missy sucks, but Timbo does her beats. And she's one of only three or four high profile female rappers. And she's more of a pop rap icon than a good rapper. Like Busta Rhymes. As far as rap skills is concerned, boo. But as far as party raps go, skill(i)s.

Randy Moss is, and has been since he entered the league, the best receiver in the league. TO had a breakout season last year, but Randy Moss has done that EVERY year. In all the negativity surrounding him and his off field antics and on field laziness, what gets lost is that he is hands down the most imposing player in the entire NFL. Yeah, I said it. The ENTIRE NFL! Dude makes triple teams look silly and can mess up an entire defensive game plan. How do you stop the 60 yard lob on two defenders? You don't! Gus Frerotte comes in and just throws the ball in Moss's general direction. Hell, I could do that with Moss as the receiver. Terrell is nice, but he may not be as nice as Marvin Harrison. And I'd still pick Rice over Owens simply because he gon do his thang, make clutch catches, and not complain on a bad day. Priest Holmes, Faulk, McNabb, even my nigga McNair, can't do anything like Moss. Moss has raised an unbelievable bar at the receiver position, a bar that is only rivaled by Jerry Rice in his prime. So no knock on TO, but Randy is on another level.

Don't buy Sheek's CD. I like Sheek and all, but until you hear all of it for yourself, don't buy iy. It could be nice, but Sheek doesn't have clout where you buy his CD just off his name, or even off recommendation from other people. Right now, Sheek is in pure "listen first, buy second" status.

I'm out like a Thundercat. Peace!

anyway outkast didn't start with soul and funk -- they started with crunk. whatever tip dre's on its got nothing to do with hip-hop (just like soul and funk don't necessarily either).

whats that logic?

But like I said I give Producers their props when it's GOOD! I can't say that about Dj Paul unfortunately, the crunk style beats don't connect with me as much... just my opinions and thoughts. Making beats on a Beat Machine is great, but don't confuse it with real music.

Trife thanks so much for proving my point about Lil' Flip! Of all the verses you could muster up to prove a point, you put "This is the way we ball??" Nice try, but when you rhyme multiple lines with non existing words, and also display the word capacity of 2 year old... (Boring, Snoring) you are considered a bad rapper in my book. I didn't even have to mention the fact the dude raps slow as fuck on their too. Freestyle King my ass! I never saw that nigga at Skribble Jam, Rocksteady or Blaze. I can name people at random who can merk that cat of the block.

By the way Qool, Moss is the man. Owens is a short Yardage receiver, he has no real break away speed to get past good defenders. His yardage mostly comes after the catch. Owens is in the short pass yardage west cost offense, so if you put him in an environment where the secondary can match his size & jam his ass on the line... he's not so invincible. As with Moss he's a down field threat on every down. Since he has that acceleration, after the initial jam he breaks off and it's a field day on the secondary. He's capable of putting up more points than Owens. When it comes down to it, I'm going for TD's not YAC (Yards after Catch). Bobby Bowden was very stupid for kicking Moss off the team. I wonder what could have been if Randy would have stayed at FSU & not gone to Marshall...damn! But it seems weed is the weakness of every black athlete. You could only wonder what if...

Oh yeah then you dis "meshing and combining samples to make a beat" but isn't that ALL PRODUCTION EVER!?

Finally, lil flip doesn't use nonexistant words, just screwed up ones. You think its shit when snoop and jay-z and every other rapper do it too? "Heavens above! 'Izzo' isn't even a real word! Those ignorant rappers and their meagre vocabularies will be the death of literacy in this great nation!"

As, of course, are you and Sterling, so.

everyone, i'd just like to note that james blount just said this.

Anybody heard the remix with Jay-Z to that Panjabi MC song? Beware of the Boys? That's my cut right now...

Anyway, it's Hillis "Ice Cold" 3000, ya favorite Thundercat! Got numerous topics to drop knowledge on...

It looks like Qool and Trife can call each other and talk about how wack Outkast and how the other 9,003,987,234 who dig Outkast are fools, and how you two actually realize the truth............ I'm lying. Whoa, copyright laws! I mean.......... I'm not telling the truth. Qoolout, your judgement of Kast seems to be solely based off their clothing in the videos and the two songs you've heard on the radio. You have said you usually dig it when rappers have a point, and generally dislike Southern music because they have no point and they rap about nothing. Of all Southern acts, Outkast speaks about the most relevant shit. And I mean on a Nas and/or Common level. "Growing Old" "Liberation" "Slum Beautiful" "Babylon" "Jazzy Belle" "D.E.E.P." "Git Up, Git Out" "Ova Da Wudz" "Mainstream" all have empowering messages and relevant lyrics. Of course, since you don't like Outkast, you probably haven't ever sampled these tracks, which is totally understandable. Now, maybe you just don't like Outkast at all, which I have no poblem with. It just seems like it's not actually based on their albums/music but more on some pictures in The Source from their Aquemini or Stankonia stage. And that's not an attack. I mean, if you ain't like the first 3 or 4 songs you heard by them, why would you go listening to all the rest of their stuff? And psychologically, you would probably go finding more reasons to dislike them, like we would all normally do. Now, Trife, I got your back 100% about DJ Paul. Personally, I like his/Three 6 beats. I'm a fan of Mystic Styles! I don't think he just presses buttons or uses a beat machine, but I do think he uses a program that actually have the instruments and drums presampled. Now he probably picks the melody and the baseline and snare, but of course he doesn't play each individual instrument. It's all computerized, so while I think that takes some talent, let's not mistake him for Timbo or Dre. But Lil Flip? How can you talk all this noise about Kast, then post The Way We Ball??? Now, like Sterling said, I don't mind the fake words and I actually like the song, but don't sit here and try to convince anybody Lil Flip has more than MINIMAL lyrical skills AND then say "its not as if stupid shit like 'outkast are real music with real instruments, etcetera, etcetera, are uncommon, so on and so forth..." I mean, if you ever look at the production credits you see credit for the bass guitar, piano, and other instruments. Not on all songs, but the majority. And Andre can actually play the guitar and other instruments, too. I mean, you can diss Kast, but don't try to play up Lil Flip at the same time. He's funny and I like a lot of his verses, but NOT because they are lyrically impressive. They're amusing. For example, on the David Banner "Like A Pimp" collabo he spits, "We make em swallow the nut, so follow the truck, Lil Flip and David Banner we got all of the bucks, and all of sluts..." LAMO! I was rollin, but let's not get crazy and start trying to compare the wordplay to Jigga or Biggie or even Bun B!

Qoolout, I forgot to also ask you why you weren't feeling Reasonable Doubt. It's the same as me not feelin Illmatic or Ready to Die, but I thought you'd feel that album, especially as a fan of Jay! You confuse me sometimes, playa... lol I mean, I guess we all have albums we just dislike even though everybody else might like em, so maybe you just don't like it. But what about classics like Dead Presidents or Can I Live? Those definitely have tight topics. And I dig the flow and beats, so I'm surprised you don't like that. Or what about the BIG song, Brooklyn's Finest? I also like Feelin It and Can't Knock the Hustle but they are kinda jiggy. And Ain't No Nigga is straight. But Can I Live is MUPHUKIN FLAMES, NICCA!

When I first heard Memphis Bleek, I thought he sucked. I still think he sucks. I liked him on Is That Your Chick and the Hey Papi remix, but that was only because I suspect Jay ghostwrote his verses or highly influenced them. I mean, on Coming of Age on Reasonable Doubt, him and Jay go back and forth on some SUPER GAY SHIT. That whole, "Hey let's ride around a while/I like your style/naw I like YOUR style/man I'll ride with you for free" is some RuPaul mess for real.

I ain't diss Busta. I think he's a tight rap act. I think Busta has come out with some classics, too, like "Everything Remains Raw" and "Woo Haa" and there are a lot of songs I like with Busta and by Busta. But as an MC? Nah, not really. I mean Busta has some skills, but he's not versatile. Like, that verse about Ja wasn't bad, but I ain't really feel the mean Busta. Like he said, he need to go back to his normal self and have fun.

Now, you've taken the Randy debate a bit further. I think you're a little too general in comparing YAC to TDs. I mean, there are different circumstances to both. I mean, a screen can get you great YAC, but all that is is a pass play turned into a run. Or if you catch a slant across the middle and happen to gain big yardage, is that really talented? I mean, concentrating on a deep TD ball when all the defender has to do is get a couple fingers on it to mess up everything can be just as hard as breaking tackles or having the vision to see how to get down the field after the catch. Or how do you say making a catch and then breakin tackles for a 40 yd gain is better than catching a TD pass goin out of bounds and managing to keep both feet in? I don't say either is better, but how does one say what is better? I don't know. Or how is getting wide open in the end zone for a TD better than catching a 5 yd pass on 3rd and 20 and somehow managing to get the first down? I don't know. To me, YAC may be better when you're trying to get down the field in the last 2 min, but if it's like on the 10 and we got only one play to score, I'd rather have a sure handed receiver who'll get a TD. It's all circumstantial.

Now your best player remark is intriguing as well. I don't necessarily think he is the best player, just the most imposing. He may not even be the league MVP (I personally say McNair or McNabb), but he definitely changes a game plan more than any other player. Now, me, I don't think you can have a best player in football. Unlike basketball or baseball or generally any other sport, you have different sets of players dedicated to defense and offense. And both are equally important. Forget all this nonsense about defense wins championships. TEAMS win championships. If defense won championships, Tampa would have 5 Super Bowls. And Baltimore would have 5, too. It takes a balance somewhere on both sides of the ball. That's why last year Kansas City sucked with their great offense and Carolina sucked with their great defense. Now add a defense to KC, a ground game to the Panthers and they're both undefeated! So after all that rambling, I find it hard to crown a best player. I don't think you could give it to a QB or RB - even though they are more likely to be an MVP. I mean, you gotta control the line of scrimmage with the O Line, your QB has to make good decisions, your RB has to see the holes, your WRs gotta get open AND catch the ball AND possibly get many YACs. Plus your team must close in the red zone. Then you gotta put out a defense with linebackers that can seek the ball, D linemen that can control the line of scrimmage, DBs that can run support as well as blanket receivers. And they gotta all get to the ball. And special teams can be crucial (ask Baltimore about Dante Hall and Tampa about all them blocked kicks). You gotta have leaders who may not be the best players. Football is the ultimate team sport, and every depends on somebody way too much for somebody to be labeled the best in football. Best at a specific position, sure, and maybe even on offense and defense. But on football? Nah...

And what do you think of TO's side explosion? And post game comments? I personally think TO has a right to be upset and the sideline explosion wasn't as bad as some people try to make it. But I do think he should have kept the comments about no heart to himself. Especially when he directed them at everyone but himself. He probably should have said he was disappointed and that he feels that the team will use this week to get better and all the united front cliches. Of course, then he could have went nuts within the 49er organization. But he does try harder and play with the most emotion. And you never hear about him on crack or rapin teenagers, so off the field he's cool. His on the field antics may ruffle purists, but I like him. SF would be crazy to trade him or let him sign elsewhere, but hey, they gotta do what they gotta do.

All right, I'm through educatin folk.

I'm out like Laverne and Shirley Coles. Peace!

Hey, I am literally laughin my ass off right now. Honestly, I looked at somethin previously posted and started laughin and I was about to start typin but I had to stop cause I had tears in my eyes! I just recovered from about two minutes of laughter from somethin H*WOOD said...

"Freestyle King my ass!"

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

Hey, the reason it's so funny is that I can imagine the look on your face when you said that. After all your rantin about Flip, you come out of nowhere with "Freestyle King my ass!" HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!! I'm still rollin (on the floor laughin)! Make no mistake about it, I am definitely laughin with you! LOL

H*WOOD, you might even find it more amusing to know that Flip has beef with some other lame ass no name nigga about who is really the Freestyle King! But I forgot some things, plus saw a new battle come out of nowhere! Ciniblount, where did all this beef come from? Sterling, Ned, Gabbo?

I forgot to mention that Moss has had like 8 QBs and he makes them all look good. Jeff George, Randall Cunningham, Gus Frerotte, Daunte Culpepper, that other white guy from last year. Moss makes any QB look good, so the theory that he needs a certain QB seems invalid. Eric Moulds is straight. He's probably a little under Harrison and T.O. but he's definitely got skills. I bet Peerless Price can attest to that! And as far as the Redskins go, your argument for the Redskins is atrocious. The only reason they have the best record right now is because they've played one more game than everyone else in the division! And like I said, they're 0-1 in the NFC East. That's right, a big huge donut in the win column! And since when do we get hype about teams who beat 0-4 teams (Jets) and teams without their star (Falcons)? Weak bastards... Sterling, I think Dre sucks lyrically, too, plus I don't dig the first Chronic. But he has skills with production and his ghost writers are superb. And Missy can actually sing. At least, I think she has a good singing voice.

Somebody please define "hip hop" to me, because comments that Missy and Andre 3000 haven't done hip hop, or quality hip hop baffle me. Is hip hop a genre of music? Is it different from gansta rap, or rap in general? Who qualifies as hip hop? Who doesn't? Why? Who can define hip hop and be considered legitimate? Why? Does hip hop have to be accepted on certain intellectual levels? Is hip hop simply the anti-mainstream? Can a mainstream song be hip hop? Is 2Pac hip hop, gangsta rap, or both? Are there sub levels of hip hop? I ask because I think we all define it differently based on personal opinons and not any universal criteria. I find it hard to accept that Outkast is not hip hop. I think they would be insulted. And I think some of hip hop's heavyweights like 2Pac, Jay-Z, NWA, Snoop, Busta, and numerous others would be left out of some definitions. And that's just what it seems to me. I just think if you considered some of your definitions, then I don't see how 2Pac can be a hip hop artist by it. And if you think 2Pac isn't hip hop, then you're an idiot.

I'm out like hip hop. Peace!