Do we like the Scissor Sisters?

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I'm not sayin I don't like the Scissor Sisters record - I'm saying that in terms of pop composition, musical technique, actual playing chops, etc. Steely Dan, Prince, and the Bee Gees were all INSANELY technically accomplished. Those guys were all highly trained musicians working in a very tight idiom that required a voluminous knowledge of music theory and pop history in order to get over. The Scissor Sisters play shit that the Ramones could play. Those parts are not hard, their songs are simple, there's nothing particularly innovative or daring in their arrangements or in the way the songs are performed. They're slick, yes, but that's just the computers and the budget talkin.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i find it nearly impossible to believe the mimsy joke i heard on "comfortably numb" is fit to lick the dirt from steely dan's toenails

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

on top of that, lyrically Steely Dan's stuff is pretty complex and fun to dissemble - they're jammed with details and sly turns of phrase. Prince too (albeit in a very different way - and he's fully capable of atrocious lyrics). The Scissor Sisters don't tell stories, their lyrics aren't dark counterpoints to the music, they don't even have particularly memorable lyrical hooks (apart from that 'take your mother out tonight' line). Masterful popsmiths these guys are not. They're more like bubblegum songs, Chinn/Chapman, that kind of thing.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Besides "Take Your Mother Out" is a note-for-note rip of the Primals "Loaded" - right down to the beat, the wah-wah guitar part, and the piano-led chord progression (which iteslf is copped from "Sympathy for the Devil"). That ain't genius pop musicianship - that's laziness, funny tho it may be.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I find the subtext of "Take Your Mother Out" to be pretty sad, actually. The predicament in the song reminds me of a lot of people I know.

Strongo, I'd argue that "Comfortably Numb" is the weakest moment on the album.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Steely Dan can be alright, but they could never be half as great as a POP band as the Scissor Sisters. Songs like "Laura" and "Better Luck" stomp all over them in this respect.

Though I respect chops, they really aren't necessary to pull off a great pop song. The Scissor Sisters aren't virtuosos on the level of Prince or Steely Dan, but that isn't really what they are going for.

Bubblegum > "dark counterpoints"

Prince's lyrics > Becker & Fagan's lyrics

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Scissor Sisters = music primarily to sing along and dance to

Steely Dan = music to write a thesis paper about

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't understand why anyone is comparing them to Steely Dan in the first place. It's probably more accurate to compare them to George Michael circa Faith.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:41 (twenty-two years ago)

And ha, George Michael > Steely Dan!

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

are you fuckin mad??? Do I need to remind you that Steely Dan actually had radio pop HITS on the charts??!? For years?!? The Scissor Sisters haven't reached a fraction of the pop audience that Steely Dan had in their heyday. I don't think I understand what your definition of "pop" is... but yeah, I don't get how anyone could compare Steely Dan to the Scissor Sisters. They don't sound anything alike as far as I can tell, and obviously their respective approaches to music couldn't be more different.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Could some please get Shakey a bib?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

fetch me a Manhattan on the rocks while you're at it.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

scottontharox, since you've driven Shakey to drink, which SS song sounds like Steely Dan to you? Cause I'm hearing Elton John (and thus Wham/George Michael), I'm hearing the Bee Gees, I'm hearing Bowie, but after that you've lost me.

― Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is it so important that SS sounds like Elton John/Steely Dan/Beegees/Bowie etc?

I view this album as my disposable pop album of the year. I'll listen to it now, but in 12 months time it'll probably be relegated to the back of the CD cupboard.

― jellybean (jellybean), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, it's total pastiche and I'm not arguing that's a bad thing, I just couldn't see that SD was one of the bands that was being, er, honored.

― Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

jellybean echoes my feelings on the album to a 'T'. The record is fun and, like a lot of good pop, ultimately totally forgettable.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't see the necessary connection between "good pop" and "ultimately totally forgettable". The NKOTB argument has been raised a thousand times on this board and I've never seen it substantiated convincingly.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The record is fun and, like a lot of good pop, ultimately totally forgettable.

I don't buy that. Good pop records are things that you listen to a lot, then kinda phase out, but if you hear it again, you get that nice rush of "oh man, I LOVE this song, I haven't heard it in forever!"

You don't forget great pop.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess that depends on whether you consider NKOTB "good pop" or not. Conversely, I consider Steely Dan good pop but obviously I don't consider them forgettable. The Scissor Sisters strike me as more the disposable version of pop (yes, like NKOTB or Duran Duran).

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

eh, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned Duran Duran there - strike that.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe you just like Steely Dan more than the Scissor Sisters and Duran Duran, and there really isn't some special reason for that.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I wasn't aware I was giving special reasons for liking anything - I was just irritated at people comparing apples (the Scissor Sisters) to oranges (Steely Dan). They're both pop, but they're vastly different. And IMHO Steely Dan's got them beat in terms of lasting tunes and the depth of their work.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

and I do like Duran Duran! Totally barmy lyrics, "The Chauffeur" is the greatest, etc.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

People still remember NKOTB songs! Whether they're actually good is irrelevant to this!

I don't believe there is an intrinsic quality that makes one tune "lasting" and another transient.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

you don't see any connection between considering a song "good" and enjoying it over a long period of time?

I don't understand you people.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the SS album is great pop, but this is also the problem with any pop albums. It's very NOW. So a few years on, it'll just be a strange thing to listen to regularly.

It's also like the Darkness album, that I haven't touched since last autumn.

― jellybean (jellybean), Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

No.

― John Cei Douglas (John Cei Douglas), Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

the answer is now no. still like comfortably numb tho

― minna (minna), Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Andrew WK vs Scissor Sisters

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Shakey my point was that people use this concept of memorabilty as a yardstick of quality (or a stick to beat the music they dislike) - but memorability is not really an inherent quality to certain types of music, and nor does it equate to the music being good. The transience or otherwise of groups such as Scissor Sisters and Andrew WK is not an indication of their quality so much as the contexts within which their work is received - tellingly both have received support from "sophisticated" music fans, who (if I were to conjecture) value the *idea* of ephemeral transience and thus actively approach such artists with the pre-established intention of forgetting them soon enough.

The pop consumer doesn't really do this! Anastacia is still having bit hits!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 13 May 2004 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm going to see them on monday!

(tend to skip comfortably numb tho)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 14 May 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

and i think laura is a terrific pop song!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 14 May 2004 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm controversial

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 14 May 2004 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

My top pics: "Take Your Mama Out", "Lovers In The Backseat", "Music Is The Victim", "It Can't Come Quickly Enough"

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 14 May 2004 01:09 (twenty-two years ago)

take your mama out really is very good, and an excellent song to have on in the background at a party

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 14 May 2004 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"Music is the Victim" is the song which convinced me there's definitely something there, I thank Ally for turning me onto it. I have to say I think they're best listened to one song at a time, though.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah I agree with that. It's one of those albums where each time you listen to it you like a different song, but for a while the necessary corollary is that you dislike the song you liked the previous time. It's hard to be in the mood for so many varied homages in one sitting.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Treat it as a mix tape and there could be something. As it is, interleaving the songs with other 'transitional' songs from other bands could result in something pretty damned cool.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree again! That comment before about "Take Your Mama Out" working particularly well as background music at parties actually applies to the whole album, and I'd hazard that this is partly because this music works best when you don't think to heavily about what kind of band Scissor Sisters are ultimately, at core, in the last instance etc. etc. They are a band with no center. The album may as well be a compilation of random good songs. It's when you try to compute the album as a unified piece of art that all the transitions and shifts and dress-ups become exhausting and a bit numbing.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Rockism that defeats itself! If you will.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:35 (twenty-two years ago)

it's a trojan horse aimed at rockism's fortified city!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 14 May 2004 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Steely Dan can be alright, but they could never be half as great as a POP band as the Scissor Sisters. Songs like "Laura" and "Better Luck" stomp all over them in this respect.

*Head explodes*

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Friday, 14 May 2004 09:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"Electrobix", duh. Just kidding. Okay, seriously:

1. "Mary"
2. "Take Your Mama Out" (= My Old School, 2004)
3. "Better Luck Next Time" (at 1:03)
4. "Return To Oz" (although this sounds a bit like ELO as well)

Derrrr. Do any of you even own Steely Dan's Pretzel Logic? Go back and listen to "Kid Charlemagne", "Peg", or "F.M." again, you'll figure it out. No static at alllllll...

― scottontharox (scottkundla), Friday, 14 May 2004 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Not to mention that scissors are made out of steel.

― scottontharox (scottkundla), Friday, 14 May 2004 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

All I'm hearing in those songs is Robbie Williams (must be the voice)

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Friday, 14 May 2004 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually "Take Your Mama Out" sounds more like George Michael's "Faith". Or is it "I Want Your Sex"?

― scottontharox (scottkundla), Friday, 14 May 2004 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

show was cancelled :(

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 01:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Within the context of Merritt's comment that the Magnetic Fields make the musical equivalent of a variety show, Scissor Sisters are the dance version of same. They're my favorite band since Turbonegro, which ignores the fact that they are just Turbonegro in go-go boots. I hope they release totally different singles in the US, though. I've played "Tits on the Radio" at college dance-punk parties and it gets a "House of Jealous Lovers"-like response. And the demo version of "Filthy/Gorgeous" is quite simply the best song since "Adolescent Sex" (or do I mean "I Got Erection"?) Their AM radio jive is great too, it makes me want to dance to Creedence.

― Otis Wheeler (Otis Wheeler), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

So I suppose I'm the only one who likes their electro-disco tracks more than their elton john rocki-ish moments?

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 18 May 2004 05:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Noooo... Electrobix is still where it's at.

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 05:57 (twenty-two years ago)

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