Haha, I notice he hasn't gotten to Henry Cow and Art Bears yet. Points for trying though! Also points for recognizing Virgin Records' importance, not just for prog necessarily, but for experimental rock in general.
― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:06 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:07 (twenty years ago) link
Actually it reads pathetically like some indie kid trying pretend he's like really really down with hip hop - or else a middle aged music journalist struggling to come to terms with the latest trends in hipster in-car entertainment
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:17 (twenty years ago) link
"The other thing is that of course an awful lot of not-at-all-awful music after punk fits some or many of those ‘progressive’ parameters. So the cartography above treats ‘prog’ as as a suffix or prefix, something that through hyphenation can come into surprising proximity with things we love. For some, maybe most still, it’s a contaminant, a worrying tendency, something to ward off with punky/indie-rock squeamishness. It’s really weird how long the reflex has persisted, with presumably less and less first-hand contact with the stuff as the years go by."
― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:48 (twenty years ago) link
i thought some of his list was funny, other bits provoked puzzlement/surprise/sputtering (Bill Nelson's Red Noise? wtf?)but also a few thought-provoking bits eg FGTH's 'Liverpool' album => all that Trevor Horn & ZTT hugeness => if that album is going to be in there then Propaganda's 'A Secret Wish' seems fairly qualified too - which is not something i imagine some of ILM might feel comfy with (and Morley is then in guilt-by-association with ZTT-Prog up to his neck)
in general though it seems a bit strained - i was just waiting for a '*' reference of 'the bassist used to wear flared trousers'
i like what (little) i've read of SR over the past yr or 2 - i maybe had stopped reading music papers by the time he was a journo cos i don't remember him - and the last section is interesting....BUT: mellotrons != 'gauche and clumsily overblown gestures in quest of sophistication and high art stature' !mellotrons were beautifully artificial/awkward/unworldy/delicate sounding - i don't associate 'sophistication' with the kind of phrasing/articulation generally needed on an instrument with a such an unweildy response/sustain/recovery time !
― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Thursday, 30 October 2003 16:03 (twenty years ago) link
Can withdraw this extraordinarily twattish remark? No? Well I tried, ha ha.
I haven't read anything by Simon Reynolds for years - his compulsion to always stay ahead of the pack got to me after a while.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 30 October 2003 16:35 (twenty years ago) link
Yeah, Dada is pretty OTM here. He's pretty good at making up some cute lists, but doesn't have anything interesting to say. It's like he's trying to shout, "hey I like this rock stuff too!" after years of blathering on about his precious white label garridge blah blah etc. He even claims to like the White Stripes now (after some post earlier this year where he claimed he didn't even need to listen to them. Whatever. Nobody comes to you Reynolds to learn anything about rock music anyway. It's not like he's going to write a post that parses out the differences between Hackett and Howe's guitar styles or something. He should probably go back to his beloved electronic music; as it is, he's kind of making himself look silly.
Dleone totally OTM about the omission of Cuneiform. I mean, come on.
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 30 October 2003 21:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Friday, 31 October 2003 00:13 (twenty years ago) link
He wouldn't mention Cuneiform because, like many of the poseurs on the Prog bandwagon, he probably hasn't heard of it and because he is not interested in modern prog bands (understandably in the latter case IMO).
A couple of things other things to note
1. He describes Family as a "blues-rock" band, I've never heard Family play a solitary note that could be described as "blues-rock, time for some research Simon.
2. The fact that Eno played on a Camel album is mentioned as being of some significance. Can I remind him that Eno has spent the last 100 years producing U2 AND James - his taste in music is obviously not a good as he likes people to believe!
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 31 October 2003 13:45 (twenty years ago) link
I think it's very interesting watching a second generation independently pick up interest in prog. It's not coming from the places that supported the genre initially, a lot of the new attention is coming from the indie-electronic sphere, so it's not really a surprise to me that Reynolds is doing some preliminary foraging into this area on his blog. I read more playfulness in this list than I do contempt.
Points for referencing Cutler's under-referenced book of criticism 'File Under Popular'. I actually wish he'd write more, though I know it's a tricky balancing act maintaining both disciplines.
― jleidecker (Jon L), Friday, 31 October 2003 17:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 1 November 2003 01:26 (twenty years ago) link
What I read is desperation.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Saturday, 1 November 2003 18:32 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Sunday, 2 November 2003 01:02 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Sunday, 2 November 2003 12:17 (twenty years ago) link
Didn't Steve Howe play on ASW?
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 3 November 2003 10:28 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 3 November 2003 10:47 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 3 November 2003 11:02 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Monday, 3 November 2003 13:09 (twenty years ago) link
''(a) = 'i don't actually understand music technique'(b) = "I'm against corny Pavlovian pop", both of which postions are tenable but how is it possible to believe both of them at the same time!''
I think its fair enough to hold both positions.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 3 November 2003 13:11 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 3 November 2003 13:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 3 November 2003 13:28 (twenty years ago) link
You don't like Triumph?
BTW I've come to think CTTE is pretty great though those parts of the title track still bug me. I think I've always secretly loved "And You and I".
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 3 November 2003 22:32 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 02:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 02:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 02:24 (twenty years ago) link
Re "Escape" - only 'problem' I have is that the G/D/A part just utterly fuckin' destroys me. More air-drum seizures! Then that subsequent ONE LINE from Perry is just "this is the voice of God speaking", a magisterial "we have achieved orbital velocity now, goodbye Earth!", the rest of the song seems like an anticlimax to me. Still an incredible attempt. Sonic analog to the picture on the cover!
Re Triumph - dunno, never could get with the singing. Maybe if Rik Emmett was Steve Perry...but then nobody is, are they?
― dave q, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 10:20 (twenty years ago) link
― mopepope (musicmope), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 16:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 17:51 (twenty years ago) link
TERRIFIC video! Haven't yet seen any video of the Blasquiz-era (though have seen Bobino, which more than makes up for it).
Guy Clement = Tony Levin's French twin?
― Joe (Joe), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 11:58 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.csi.edu/ip/ce/yesology/http://www.billboard.com/bb/tangledweb/index.jsp
I always suspected the people of Southern Idaho are closet Shakira fans!! :)
― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 9 November 2003 03:22 (twenty years ago) link
By the way, what's Fish Out Of Water like?
― Damian (Damian), Sunday, 9 November 2003 09:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Sunday, 9 November 2003 09:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Sunday, 9 November 2003 09:34 (twenty years ago) link
http://blissout.blogspot.com/PROGMETHEUS UNBOUND: THE RETURN
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 24 November 2003 13:56 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:11 (twenty years ago) link
So how do YOU listen to prog now?
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 19 May 2007 05:54 (seventeen years ago) link
with glittery cape on http://wgsu.geneseo.edu/blog/images/rickwakeman.jpg
― gershy, Saturday, 19 May 2007 06:06 (seventeen years ago) link
So, Dr.C never got around to hearing 'Relayer'. Pity.
― Just got offed, Saturday, 19 May 2007 09:24 (seventeen years ago) link
I'm terrified of seventies Yes but I need to listen to it a bit for a research project. Where should I start? My best friend liked Yes so I heard it quite a bit. Not my steez back then. Such were the times...
Like Jethro Tull is cited as "progressive". I thought they were a "punk" band.
I'm scared of Yes. I'm afraid it might conjure memories of scarily free hippie people.
― โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Don Nots (Mount Cleaners) (Mount Cleaners), Monday, 30 January 2012 19:21 (twelve years ago) link
I'd rec either the Yes Album or Fragile. The Yes Album is probably the best for newcomers but Fragile has the full "classic" lineup and shows off pretty much everything great about 70's Yes. Nothing to be scared of - stay away from Tales, otherwise most of their peak period is chock full of great instrumental parts. Obviously they were a lot whiter than Parliament but they kind of have the same vibe - with a different singer and less time changes, you kind of feel like they'd be known more as a funk band.
― frogs you are the dumbest asshole (frogbs), Monday, 30 January 2012 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
I was going to say the same two albums. there isn't anything scary on those. stay away from tales of topographic oceans and relayer, they are full of scary (and boring) things.
― akm, Monday, 30 January 2012 20:59 (twelve years ago) link
Man, Relayer is awesome. If you are scared of awesomeness, stay away from Relayer, otherwise enjoy.
Also, Close to the Edge rules too.
― You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Monday, 30 January 2012 21:09 (twelve years ago) link
second The Yes Album as a good jumpoff
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2012 21:10 (twelve years ago) link
yeah Relayer and CttE are great albums (CttE is slowly becoming one of my favorite prog albums ever) but you kind of have to be into the band in some respect first.
― frogs you are the dumbest asshole (frogbs), Monday, 30 January 2012 21:12 (twelve years ago) link