Simon Reynolds is a gobshite

I take that back, i read your comment wrong

I do think part of the problem is that no critics are really covering non-radio/non-backpack/non-newspeg rap. Like the Cormega album is really good and, honestly, who's gonna tell you that?

I can list 20 awesome rap records that came out in 2009, but no one gives a fuck about any of them--which means more to the "death of a genre" than the records just not existing at all

all of those hip-hop magazines...oh wait

xp

whats the state of the source/xxl? do they still exist? will they last long if they do? still mouring hhc dying tbh and now dont really know where to get a good hiphop recommendation bar occasionally checking cocaine blunts

rolling autogoon thread 2009

I can list 20 awesome rap records that came out in 2009, but no one gives a fuck about any of them--which means more to the "death of a genre" than the records just not existing at all

― eatin' spaghett' (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, November 27, 2009 6:02 PM (1 minute ago)

aren't you just pointing to the quik/ugk/mos def axis then? honestly, it doesnt bother me that there's not a huge, agreed-upon great rap album this year. i like rap, and as long as good rap records continue to be made i could care less if they dont put up huge numbers (and they will, it's just a matter of time). it's almost better than every aunt and uncle in the country latching onto a just-ok record like carter III

ha ok yeah rolling autogoon as well.

Is this a good place to talk about the excellent, slept-on art-rap that even the indie critics who stump for quik/ugk (and the autogoon crew) won't touch?

Good a place as any.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00W9zT1rZs4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiEEitTx2GE

the excellent, slept-on art-rap that even the indie critics who stump for quik/ugk (and the autogoon crew) won't touch?

do you guys like blu and exile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go_GDg7pW0Q

Is 2009 Anti-Pop C. and Dahlek as good or better or different than what they were doing in 2002? Just asking, haven't heard their recent stuff (other than the videos posted above).

genre name mockery is the preserve of awful british comedians, cease and desist order.

I wouldn't say drastically different, but APC has gotten way funkier and Dalek way more layered and shoegazy

Conversely. the whole Pill/Freddie Gibbs/Juiceman axis is basically just the rap version of nitpicking over chillwave and glo-fi and, again, has little to no bearing on hip-hop at large.

― eatin' spaghett' (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 27 November 2009 21:04 (Yesterday) Permalink

juiceman is nothing like pill/freddie gibbs and is yes "actually popular"

― ice cr?m hand job (deej), Friday, November 27, 2009 9:33 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest

i think hip hop is getting a lot of slack from critics for falling out of the public eye and not having any huge hits or albums, while the quality of music hasn't changed drastically in the past few years. i think it has a lot to do with the fact that hip hop use to be really ubiquitous and unavoidable, so non-rap critics would keep clear account of what's going on with the sides of their eyes and now that it's dipped under the everpresent public eye it's suddenly like "where's all the good hip hop at?" but it's still there by all means.

― samosa gibreel, Friday, November 27, 2009 4:54 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

exactly. which is why whiney's hilarious assumptions about what is 'actually popular' is so ridic. juiceman is freddie gibbs? lol. if plies album had sold would it would have if we were in a '99 era for the music industry ... or dudes like jacka ... theres so much shit out there that is 'actually popular' that whiney is pretending bcuz hes not aware of it, lots of other ppl arent either.

also i totally dont understand the idea behind comparing a populist rapper to a critic/tastemaker created 'genre' like 'chillwave'

I'm definitely "not aware" of OJ Da Juiceman who I've talked about in this thread

Gucci is a "populist rapper" only on Planet Deej, come the fuck on now

Like he's been steadily on the rise for years, but he hasn't had a single even break Top 30 in Billboard. He's gonna be huge and everyone knows it, but dude has literally nothing to show so far except cosigns, guest spots, the MTV MCs circle jerk and sharing an XXL cover with three people.

That's not populist, that's cult hero.

And, yes, taking everyone of his shitty throwaway lines and deconstructing "OMG HE SAID PENGUIN" like it's fucking illmatic is as sad and pathetic as a what.cd message board slapfight about whether Memory Wave is better than Indian Tapes.

not sure who should get the serial poster award, you or deej

I feel this double one-way exchange is somehow emblematic of the discourse of Simon Reynolds.

He's gonna be huge and everyone knows it

GODDAMMIT WHAT IS "HUGE" AND WHO IS "EVERYONE"

You know, that one guy.

Gucci is a "populist rapper" only on Planet Deej, come the fuck on now

― eatin' spaghett' (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, November 27, 2009 11:33 PM (Yesterday)

tbf all my white eight classes-taking friends are very aware of gucci's existence, which i was a bit surprised to learn myself

maybe they thought u meant populist fashion house gucci????

no disrespect unperson but "everyone" is people who at least pay a little attention to pop music, a group from which you've already admittedly excluded yourself

"everyone" is people who at least pay a little attention to pop music, a group from which you've already admittedly excluded yourself

Hip-hop is not the be all and end all of pop. Show me where I said I don't pay attention to pop music.

i don't really consider metal, jazz and assorted skronk "pop" but can we just drop this?

Too bad hip-hop songs never break the pop charts or are played on pop radio. He really got you there, kevin.

Also, I've heard a lot of reasons why people don't listen to rap, but "no one pays me to" is by far and wide the stupidest

well that's why i don't listen to rap, fwiw

heres fifty cents

A-

a thousand xposts:

i actually made a prediction a loooooooong long time ago and i don't think it really came true. or if it did it came true in some less obvious way that i didn't pay attention to. in the 90's when indie/undie rap was gaining strength and listeners i thought this might translate into more of a worldwide movement of people making great native language sci-fi rap of all kinds. and maybe people did and i just never heard the albums. i just thought that mo wax/stones throw/co flow/etc would spur people on to make rap music that wasn't, you know, major label rap music. that it would inspire people to make rap in their own image. ( i was really probably just hoping that the japanese would do this since one of my biggest hip-hop influences in the 90's was my major force box set) again, maybe this happened somewhat and i missed out on it or didn't know about the great latvian underground rap explosion.

Scott have you heard the album 'Astromantic' by a band called M-flo? it is my favourite record of the 00s and it is the first thing i thought of reading "great native language sci-fi rap of all kinds" - they're a japanese rnb group with a floating cast of guest singers who make ridiculous overstuffed bi/trilingual pop and they had this one perfect album, in 2004, and... you might like it?

Gucci is a "populist rapper" only on Planet Deej, come the fuck on now

― eatin' spaghett' (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, November 27, 2009 10:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

only in the whiney school of popular culture -- its funny how u basically have no understanding of popular culture tho -- how would you say he stands on the continuum of kevin smith -> chillwave??

Like he's been steadily on the rise for years, but he hasn't had a single even break Top 30 in Billboard. He's gonna be huge and everyone knows it, but dude has literally nothing to show so far except cosigns, guest spots, the MTV MCs circle jerk and sharing an XXL cover with three people.

That's not populist, that's cult hero.

― eatin' spaghett' (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, November 27, 2009 10:36 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

its funny how u had to edit it to 'top 30' because he has had 'top 40' hits. um, & he's been the featured performer on hits that have done better than that. so do explain, how does one 'become' huge as measured by the charts w/out 'being' huge first. nothing to show for it? are billboard charts the only 'real' presence? planet deej? whiney, i recommend getting to know a single human being not on ilx it might do wonders for your perspective

And, yes, taking everyone of his shitty throwaway lines and deconstructing "OMG HE SAID PENGUIN" like it's fucking illmatic is as sad and pathetic as a what.cd message board slapfight about whether Memory Wave is better than Indian Tapes.

― eatin' spaghett' (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, November 27, 2009 10:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah maybe i should spend my time writing one thousand twitter reviews of bands like memory wave & indian tapes u fucking clown

Pill/Freddie Gibbs/Juiceman axis

lollllll

whiney is basically the living embodiment of exactly what my problem is w/ mainstream critics now, altho at least he out & out admits that now that rap has no way to 'prove' its popularity on the charts it might as well be as popular as whatever crit bands he spends his time gchatting about.

lol @ breaking down ppl feeling gucci's lyrics to "omg he said penguin" -- it might help you to spend less time listening to brooklyn hipsters who discovered gucci thru the 'cold war series'

you're throwing up Kid Sister as a reason hip-hop was good in 09?

yes

goddamn this "argument" is annoying

I love it when hip hop is producing such unarguably brilliant singles and albums that any decent critic has to acknowledge them, without any need for special pleading.

it's much more probable that the drop in quality is to do with critics rather than hip-hop

i really hate the lazy "music must come to me" mindset that a ton of critics have - goddamn it is your job to get out there and hunt for music you love! the industry has changed and if you're going to sit back and wait for things to drop into your lap you'll miss 90% of all the best shit out there in whatever genre.

eg: the one consensus hip-hop album of the year, quik & kurupt - unreleased in the uk. barely a ripple of coverage in the uk mainstream press. and that sad state of affairs has nothing to do with blaqkout's lack of quality.

xpost. How do you work that one out? Critics are responsible for a drop in musical quality?

I appreciate we're coming at this from different angles. You obv think it's been a brilliant year whereas I've diligently followed up every track mentioned on this thread and liked only a handful. It's all very well saying look for the best shit but what about when you do look for it and it's just not (imo) that great?

Just read your last post - whole different issue there re: whether UK publications should start reviewing albums that aren't released over here on the assumption that people can hear them online regardless.

there are plenty of trends w/in hip hop i dont like or think are creatively zzz. A lot of rap that gets attention, incl raekwon/quik/etc. is not really a great indicator of active 'scenes' & more about nostalgia, sure -- i mean i think those records are great & have no illusions that they should be measures of hip hop's health as a genre. but SR's grand statements about the state of the genre when he's got such a poor understanding of what is actually going on is like thinking whiney's centimeter-deep knowledge of rap this year being indicative of anything more than critical lack of awareness.

it used to be easier to let rap just hit you thru osmosis, no question. but is the sudden need to actually be, like, a journalist about it a result of rap becoming less creatively vital, less broadly popular -- or is it about channels of access? Is it about the lack of an accurate measure of popularity? there's no soundscan on bootlegs & mixtapes, the industry has stopped releasing nearly as many rap records as it used to ... but does that mean less MUSIC is being made relative to other genres?