― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 2 February 2003 08:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ben WIlliams, Sunday, 2 February 2003 15:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
(haha & maybe I've been reading too much Curnow & Brasch lately, but while not taking geography-as-destiny (or geography-as-haunting) too seriously, all the NZ rawkundroll fans I know have spent far more time around the otago/cantebury plains than I have).
― Ess Kay (esskay), Monday, 3 February 2003 02:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 3 February 2003 02:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ben Williams, Monday, 3 February 2003 14:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ben Williams, Monday, 3 February 2003 14:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 3 February 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
"Subjective" is no good as a synonym for "value-laden." As a matter of fact it's no good as a word, period. (Nor is its twin "objective. Ban 'em both!)
Tracer: there are all sorts of ways to use the word "folk," but if you're using it anthropologically (folkways, folklore), I can't think of any other songs in modern America that are as folk as Xmas Carols, except maybe for "Happy Birthday" and "Rock 'N' Roll Part 2."
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 02:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 02:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
Zeppelin doesn't strike me as dated, while Hendrix and Cream and CCR do, though I don't have a quick explanation why. Punk and hair metal helped to switch the game again, maybe knocking Hendrix and Cream into the past, but since Stones-based punks like the Stooges, Dolls, and Pistols had all absorbed Clapton-Hendrix-Kaukonen guitar sustain, their changing the game didn't bring Stones '70 back to seeming retrospectively modern. (And the Stones themselves transformed from a song band to a groove band, though I don't think they pulled this off thoroughly until Emotional Rescue.) If "Brown Sugar" sounds not-so-dated now, this is because its style of riffing has a life in new country (though it hadn't back in the day). "Brown Sugar" is all over the place in recent Brooks & Dunn. Strangely, given that CCR was admired so much in country land, CCR doesn't live in modern country, while Skynyrd, Charlie Daniels, and the Eagles all do.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 02:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
They were both of and not of the counterculture, which was one of the interesting things about them.
Mark, I still doubt that the term "rockist" helps people to communicate or think through their ideas, but I won't make that argument here. I want to point out, though, that in using "rockist," Shakey is raising the question as to whether it's rockist to like Creedence now, not whether Creedence was rockist back in their day. For instance, staking one's allegiance to the Ramones makes you butt-plug reactionary now but didn't in 1977, at least didn't for most people. Depends how you deployed your allegiance to the band. Note, that there's a difference between liking the Ramones and staking your allegiance to them. I still like 'em. I think.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 03:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 03:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
Funny that you mention this, 'cause I was thinking the same thing after I re-read my comment about "Lodi" after this thread sprang back to life. That tension -- being both of and not of the counterculture -- is what makes that (and other) CCR songs work. Lyrically, it's about the American Dream -- staking out on yer own to "make it," the singer working hard for and having "success" dangled in front of him. Musically (at least at the beginning), it's meat-and-potatoes American rock (or CCR-type "chooglin'"). Then comes the last verse, with the key change and the singer's epiphany that his version of the "American Dream" might be being stuck in shitty bars sinking to drunks for the rest of his life. At least to me, it seems very much of its time -- a counter-cultural Sixties twist on a common American archetype which may still resonate because of its craft and sublety, but also because of how cynical we've become since the Sixties.
my two cents anyway.
― Tad (llamasfur), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 03:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
Hendrix, "dated"? I don't think it's ever going to date, that stuff is as audacious as the day he made it. I've come to the conclusion that, as much as I like rock and roll, and as instinctively hostile I can be toward "rockism" or whatever you call it, Hendrix is in a whole different class than anybody else who ever made "rock." I'm sure this opinion is not shared by everyone.
CCR, though...it is stiff, stiff. Bad rhythm section. Mechanical. Great songs performed with a kind of caution, a really bad reverence for some "past" which consistently hobbles the whole project. Ben Williams up the thread hit it, "Let it Bleed" contains some "eerie" moments where the bullshit of Jagger's lyrics sorta gets hijacked by something altogether more mystical...as in the slide-guitar/piano/vibes bit in "Monkey Man." Which is all Keith. Whereas CCR never once hit a note like that.
That said, I still kind of like them, as superior radio music, and I think "Willy and the Poor Boys" is a fine record, I always liked "Effigy." I mean explain to me how "Effigy" is all that different from "Mod Lang" or something...once you get past the limberness of the Big Star rhythm section and the stiffness of CCR's. But the basic conception is similar...
So, a classic, but even more dated than the Band, who had some of the same problems of over-thinking everything and self-conscious mythologizing...the Band were far superior musicians, and they sounded like they had been having a better time out on the road than CCR had...
― frank p. jones (frank p. jones), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 13:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
Dan Penn does "Lodi" on his early '70s "Nobody's Fool" album, quite well.
― frank p. jones (frank p. jones), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 13:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
If we had football chants in America they'd probably be the ultimate successful example of folk attitude in this country. The Pinefox mentioned on a war thread that he feels the art of chanting is DOA. Maybe he could expand on that here? I think if he's right it has serious implications for democracy!
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 17:38 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
I don't see how "sexy" by this definition is different from "makes me think about sex" - and as such it seems to be necessarily observer-dependent, ie., different strokes for different folks. For example, if I was to say that I don't find Elvis "sexy", how would you argue that I was wrong?
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
And CCR did have an influence on mid-late 80s Seattle. Mark Arm and some pre-Pearl Jam dudes had that band Green River. And didn't the early incarnation of Nirvana do CCR covers? Or at least Kurt claimed to have played in a CCR cover band. Something like that.
― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 23:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
Andrew M., that is some interesting, uhmm, but have you ever been to "Appalachia" (pronounced correctly it rhymes with "appa-latch-a," not "appa-laytchi-a")? CCR has zero to do with any of that. They from California, man, and that's a long, long way from E. Ky./Tenn./W. Va., not to mention fucking Germany...personally, I used to dig Can when I was driving across, say, *Arkansas*, but otherwise, it's a bit honky for my taste...stiil, Applachian-Kraut boogie is a funny idea, someone out there in I Love Music-Land fire up the 4-track, we gonna have a part-ee!!
― frank p. jones (frank p. jones), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 02:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
Lest I sound like an overly gushing fanboy, I'll admit that his solo albums havebeen VERY inconsistent. The best songs are great, but nearly all of it soundslike unecessary backtracking. Of course, it's hard to keep writing great songswhen you only release an average of 10 new songs per decade. Thesethings take practice.
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 05:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 05:28 (twenty years ago) link
I was surprised at how much I still loved some tracks (good god "Fortunate Son" might be the most ferocious song of the Vietnam era), but so many kind of filtered out into blandness. I really wanted to like it/them more than I do.
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 05:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 15:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 15:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 15:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 17:06 (twenty years ago) link
more info plz
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 17:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 20:34 (twenty years ago) link
That said, I find them incredibly boring and samey. There's something so mechanical about them, and JF's voice grates. Prototype of all the back-to-roots groups (the Band too, of course), and they lack the glamour I need from rock and roll. I know, I know--they weren't after glamour.
When something like "Fortunate Son" comes on the radio, I dig; but they're a group (I feel the same way about REM) whose records I don't own any more and have no desire to play. Nice on the radio. Fogerty's solo records are horrendous, I have always hated "Center Field" with a passion, what a stupid song. But sure, classic. And no way are they a patch on the Stones, give me a break.
― chesteraburnett (ddduncan), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 22:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 23:11 (twenty years ago) link
SP: They were crankin' back in the day, I can attest.
― jim wentworth (wench), Thursday, 29 April 2004 00:44 (twenty years ago) link
― coach (ddduncan), Thursday, 29 April 2004 01:14 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 29 April 2004 04:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Thursday, 29 April 2004 04:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Thursday, 29 April 2004 04:44 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 23 July 2004 04:04 (twenty years ago) link
― djdee2005, Friday, 23 July 2004 05:22 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 23 July 2004 06:16 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 23 July 2004 06:24 (twenty years ago) link
Rock music: C or D?Music: C or D?Sex: C or D?Oxygen: C or D?
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 23 July 2004 06:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 23 July 2004 07:38 (twenty years ago) link
I was just listening to the debut w/ a bonus track "Call It Pretending", & learned that their first single was "Porterville" / "Call It Pretending". It occurs to me that those are amongst the band's most ~~60s-ish~~ songs, the former with SF-style backup vocals, the latter a Motown rip. I know it sounds silly to say that a 60s band sounded 60s-ish, esp. one featured in every movie about the 60s ever, but CCR always seemed more futuristic to me in their concision & stripped-down sound. But this single, both sides, isn't like that. "Call It Pretending", the more I think about it, would have been a good Stones cut in 1966, which is what I mean when I say it sounds 60s---Jagger & co wouldn't have tried to pull that off in 1972.
― Euler, Sunday, 30 January 2011 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
but CCR always seemed more futuristic to me in their concision & stripped-down sound
I know what you mean, insofar as there was no one else who really sounded like them in '68 and '69. (There's never been anyone who really sounds like them, actually, even if stuff like "Long Cool Woman" tried to.) I'm not sure if they were pointing the way to the future, or if they had just reached back so far that it seemed like they were. In general, moving towards a stripped-down sound was common in '68: The White Album, Beggars Banquet, John Wesley Harding, etc. I don't really have a point here. I don't have their first album, either, but I'm going to see if I can find the two songs you mention on Grooveshark. Seems to me I know "Porterville" from somewhere.
― clemenza, Sunday, 30 January 2011 23:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah--"Call It Pretending" is really good, and totally atypical. It's got a little bit of "Out of Time" in it.
― clemenza, Sunday, 30 January 2011 23:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, "Out of Time"s a good comparison; for "Porterville" it's like a Dead song circa 66, out of time indeed.
The debut's really pretty light (in a good way!) compared to where they'd go next, into swampy doom. And it's interesting how Chronicle recontextualizes the songs from the debut ("Suzy Q" & "I Put A Spell On You"): they fit well there, more swampy doom. But the debut is overall more of a mishmash, more bluesy than the later records; which makes sense given its provenance from pre-CCR bands (Golliwogs mostly).
― Euler, Sunday, 30 January 2011 23:27 (thirteen years ago) link
heard creedence everywhere i went yesterday. there literally is no music more omnipresent than CCR. ~science~
― tylerw, Monday, 23 May 2011 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link