Jay Z/ Nas and other hiphop throwdowns...resurrected. Part 4

Ok, ok, ok, Trife, maybe "soft" wasn't the word I should have used. It's not so much the lyrics or the topic of Juicy that I found soft. It was the beat that was too soft. It just didn't seem to match the tough times he was talkin about. The beat was all soft and gushy and they was singing all perky and he was rappin about struggles. And even though he does say it's still all good and don't let em hold you down and reach for the stars, the beat just didn't seem like it matched. Something with more soul might have been better. Like the beat for Everyday Struggles seemed more appropriate - even though I don't like that song either. My main beef with Ready to Die was Biggie's high delivery and the production was wack. Apart from The What and Warning, everything lacked. And I like Big Poppa simply because it reminds me of high school. And Gimme the Loot is at best "aiight." At best.

Now, your Hey Ya comment kind of leads into my point for postin - Outkast's new double disc. Yeah, Hey Ya is definitely soft, but it's silly and funny and I think the song is SUPPOSED to be soft. But more importantly, Qool said The Wash Post bashed Speakerboxxx/The Love Below...

Well, their review is not surprising. When I first heard Andre's disc, I was livid. The first few tracks of singing I found amusing. But the more I listened, so I was like, "I know this nigga ain't finna sing for 20 tracks!" - even though I knew he was. So after about track 16 I took his CD out in disgust. I like Outkast as rappers! Andre ain't Luther or Teddy! So I threw on Big Boi's CD and found comfort in the Outkast I knew and remembered. I like numerous tracks on there, including (but not limited to) Unhappy, Way You Move, Ghettomuzik, and some others I can't remember the name to.

So I told my review to a few of my boys who are fans like me, and they said they were actually feelin Andre's CD more! I told them I know Andre is off the wall but I could dig his CD more if he rapped at least once or twice. But they told me that Andre does actually rap a few times, so I gave his CD a relisten. I knew that I was gonna have to be in a certain mood to accept Andre's disc and I was finally in it. I must say that the last track ("Incomplete") he does rap and it's tight as hell. There are songs where he does sing and I must admit, even though he ain't Jaheim or Genuwine, they are tight. Happy Valentine's Day and Prototype are my cuts. Roses features Big Boi and it's tight. So I'm diggin both CDs. I'd say if this was one CD, I'd probably say it was 4 1/2 or 5 mics. But as a double disc, I have to add in the cuts I don't feel and give it 4. Of course, who knows? Maybe some more tracks will grow on me and I can force myself to like some others! lol

I read a review of the album that kind of put these discs into proper perspective. It said that this was a chance for both MCs to explore, and more specifically, Andre to go buck wild. It also makes you realize that even though they could succeed on their own, the two of them together is a sight to behold and something I appreciate now even more than I already did.

Now, for you "non Outkast fans" (i.e. Qool and the other three MORONS in the entire world) if one was trying to first give Outkast a listen, this is definitely not the album to do it. I would recommend Aquemini or Southernplayalisticadillacmusik. You have to already be fans of Outkast to appreciate this album. As artists, I think that Outkast makes a strong, and generally successful, attempt at raising the bar and expanding their horizons. Southerplayalistic was a 5 mic classic in EVERY Southerner's opinion and probably the hip hop world in general. Personally, it had everything I look for in an album and on every track. The production is superb, the lyrics are nice, and the skits are classic. Ain't a cat in DA SOUTH who doesn't know where "What? A sack? Nigga, sack deez!" came from. That might be the funniest skit ever - even better than the Madd Rapper on Big's or when Big explains how he shitted on some bitch. But even on Southerplayalistic you could sense Andre brewin up somethin. ATLiens came out and that's a classic, too. At least in DA SOUTH. Big Boi kept it pimp and funk, whereas Andre gave more signs of wildin out. So enter Aquemini. ANOTHER classic, no ifs, ands, or buts. It was wild for 1999 and southern rap but we still can dig it cause they kept the same funk and soul in their beats and music that we, especially as black people, seem to connect to. Now Stankonia went way off the charts and off the wall, especially Bombs Over Baghdad. This when you knew Andre was on some other shit and knew that the next album he was gonna lose his mind - which he did. But Stankonia had many tight cuts (So Fresh So Clean, Gangsta Shit, Call Before I Come, Slum Beautiful) and many funny skits ("spill it, girl, spill it"). So this new album with Andre 3000 goin to Pluto and beyond is no real surprise. As fans, we expect it, accept it, find what we like, move on, and wait for the next classic. But whoever may have reviewed it in the Post may not be fans like 99% of the hip hop world. Of course, it is the WASHINGTON Post, so who gives a rat's ass? Bamma ass DC music reviews...

"Sterl, you should hook up with other C-Bo fan and you two can discuss it..." - Trife

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

I'm out like non Outkast fans. Peace!

one more thing: i've heard very little lloyd banks really so if i'm talking crap then feel free to ignore me.

What up What up, WHazzup!? It's the J-D-O-L-O with that keelo flow! Qoolout thanks for the headsup on the continuing of the most banging thread in history. This thread vet is still alive. Nas vs Jay-z & other HipHop throwdowns...ummmmm. Just got interesting with 50 vs Ja Rule....Hip Hop news....Ya know I'm from CT, but,50 cent just bought a mansion in Farmington Ct (small ass town), just 20 minutes from Waterbury aka "Dirty Waters", from whom? Mike Tyson's ex-wifey who got the mansion as part of the divorce settlement years back. Tyson ex-wifey sold it to ol' Curtis Jackson for a cool mil (Tyson bought it for 3.5 mil). CT was starting to get on the map the last couple of years with stars coming through (And 1 included)! Now with 50 as a Ct resident paying CT taxes (Highest in the whole nation), CT is now officially gully. And it's not far from NYC. 50 let me the first to welcome you to the constituion state.

What up Hillis 3K!? Remember those battles between you, me and qoolout? Who was that dude Squirrel Police!? (LOL). 3:16 what up kid!? (What?). And H-Wood what up?!. What else?

Lloyd Banks got skills, period. I can say a favorite Banks line all day but it will take up a whole thread. Punchlines are just ridiculous.

All-First rookie squad (Banks, J-Hood, Juelz Santana, Joe Buddens, Cassidy and Young Chris).

Ja-Rule, stop biting Pac's identity.

Irv Gotti, YOU ARE NOT SUGE so stop trying.

What's up with Source dedicating a whole issue trying to ruin 50/Aftermath/Shady. XXL is da shit!!

Sheek's new album: Sleeper album of the year (Phat tape that will get critically acclaimed but slept on by the masses.

Minesota Timbos got the squad.

One more thing......It's all about D-Block (Two guns up) One!!

First off, it's "sunned." Second, who is John Walker Lindh? Third, don't be on some wanna be The Best shit like that... lol

Second, I did NOT "almost" admit anything, Foolout! I said I was pissed because I thought Andre 3000 was singing on every song and did no rapping. For example, if Jadakiss came out with his next CD and you were sampling through and all Kiss did was sing, you'd probably be disappointed at first because you like it when Kiss spits mad nice lines and not his singing ability, or lack thereof. Now, the CD itself might not be bad at all, but that still wouldn't affect your initial reaction. See, you always gettin carried ass bamma, I was livid because I thought he ddn't rap none, because I like Outkast as rappers. I hadn't actually listened to the whole CD, so how could I say it suck? MORON! And So Fresh So Clean had no point... what's yours? The song was still tight. And even though Kiss is talented, don't act like he comes out with a new topic with every verse. EVERY Kiss verse is about how tough D-Block is or how gutter Kiss is. EVERY verse. He's just mad nice when he does it. But on a side note, that Mighty D-Block song by Sheek is tight. And I haven't heard much about Jae Hood, but he's tight on that song.

And the Redskins run the NFC East??? Negro, they lost to the only NFC East team they played! They beat the Vickless Falcons and the 0-4 Jets. Whoop dee damn doo. And New England ain't all that impressive, either. You're guaranteed to lose to Dallas at least once (as usual, like clockwork, etc). New York came to DC and beat you, so they'll probably do the same in NY. And you haven't faced the new and improved McNabb and Eagles. Tell Lavuerneus Coleslaw and Co they can feast on the wack teams of the NFL all they want, they still won't make no noise on the playoff scene.

What up J-Dolo?! Dirty Waters, huh? D-Water Block! Dirt set, Dirt set, Dirt set, Dirt set, Dirt set... But, really, that Santana Town video and song suck. Anyway, it's good to have another vet back.

Enough knowledge dropped, I'm gone.

I'm out like the future 7-9 Redskins. Peace!

I just like to say I like OutKast, and each record they have put out has been solid. I'm not particularly a fan South Rap, but OutKast is the one group that has my respect. The next would be Scarface & Bun B from UGK. I really got into them a little bit after Midnight Marauders by ATCQ. At that point we saw the boom of Gangster Rap. That was when I picked up "Southernplaylistc..." it was an album you could vibe too. It wasn't all Kill, Kill, Kill! which sometimes you need to step out of that mode of rap and just relax and listen to the sounds. I liked the fact OutKast used a lot of acoustic bass in their music. I appreciate this era of music cause the instruments used were more detailed. Instead of a beat machine its like 36 Mafia uses, or Just Blaze butchering great jazz song with speeding the voice up. The production was more balanced to accompany the voice. Dre's eccentric rhymes makes him more indivisual with his music, and can leave a greater impression on a song than your typical rapper. Cause every nigga can rap (Chingy is proof of that), but can they make music. I think OutKast has done that on a consistent basis. Next to A Tribe Called Quest they make the best Radio friendly music. Yeah sometimes it doesn't make sense, but the whole premise is to have fun with it. Thought provoking rhymes are good for radio too, but sometimes people need wild out. OutKast does that.

By the way John Walker Lindh was the fool who joined the Taliban. I think he is being charged for treason. Also how dare you trash the name of "Lavern & Shirely Coles???" only I can do that. I love the dude cause he's FSU blood, but that name is very gay. Maybe not as much as Ashley Leile, but still pretty gay.

Anyways I'm out!

Santana made my list because he, just like the others, have skills and he's making noise right now the NYC(Mecca of hiphop) and beyond. They all have that potential to be some of the nicest in years to come, as Jay-z and Nas and all the great one have had: potential to change the game. But at the same time, just like everything else in life, potential doesnt necessarily equal success, or even critically acclaimed. Look how we all salivated when we heard a Young Bleek rap for the first time (And we all were dont try to front now)and Hova even went so far as to annoint him as the next great one in rap. Now what do you think of him? My point exactly. But maybe Jay-z annointed him too soon, but Hova saw something in him that made him say that (And we saw something in him too but are too proud to admit that now). But Bleek did go gold and second did go platinum, but it does help to have Jay-z, ja-Rule, and Beans on alot of the joints, and we still see him as an average rapper who really didn't get THAT much better with age. And I think Santana was better than Bleek was at that age. Cannibus was probably THE most HYPED RAPPER in history (Dude had Lebron-type hype in the mixtape and overall hiphop scene) and look what happened. Where is he now? Probably over at Iraq somewhere or something. Well I gotta go. Peace out to the original thread vets as well as the newbies.

As for this bamma Hillis (that's right, you get your very own paragraph). We ( the mighty mighty Redskins) have the best record in the NFC East(997) dummy. Thus, we run the NFC East. It doesn't matter who we lost to. As of this date, right now, we have the best record in the entire division. And that my friend is your first lesson in football 101. If you got a better record than the other clowns in the NFC East, you are at the top, even if them clowns got lucky and beat you. Your next lesson is that L. Coles is ripping new holes and maybe you didn't know that since you can't see the entire games down THEAH, but when the playoffs kick off, you'll see him, primetime live on TV. And I wasn't saying Jada has a moral everytime he spits, but at least I can come away from the song and say "Kiss was talking about the hood," or "Kiss was spittin' about gettin' money" or "how he grew up" or etc. Now can you please tell me what did you get from "So fresh and Clean?" And then tell me what you got from "Everybody move to the back of the bus." Look, I'm not knocking them, well I kinda am, but I'm not saying you can't like them, I was just asking "WHY?!?" Just like Missy fans. When it comes to Missy and rapping, she sucks so I want to know why peeps like her. That's all. Now leave me alone before I SUNkiss you like the soda (Beans).

Thanks J-Dolo, I almost bought Sheek's cd twice. The last time I even got in line with it until cuz told me it was 15 bucks. Now I have an excuse to get it, but if it's as bad as Style's, I'm coming to CT with bad intentions. Oh yeah, I heard this joint with Kiss today, but the DJ ain't play all of it so I don't know what song it was. Somebody let me know; I think it might be the one Hillis was speaking on eariler. Jada says, And my crack is two tone/ but I had to switch up my spot cause it became a drug free school zone. Lastly, Jae Hood is by far my first round pick; I just hope cuz don't let me down like Bleek. But I did like Bleek on "Is that your Chick?" Yeah, I know Missy was on there too. Oh yeah, one more thing. There was a discussions going on here and I wanna ask y'all. Who is better R. Moss or T. Owens? I like Randy's game a lil bit more, but I really don't know whose better.

im swangin, about to rip the kizzerp, sippin on my syzzurp
if you buy first from me then you just bought a dizzert
swangas on my whizzeel, platinum in my grizzeel
me and doby b stay blowin on some kizzeel
im higher than a hizzeel, mind on a mizzell
southside of h town show me how you fizzeel
now you see we ball, now you see we rich
I represent the legendary screwed up clique
i wreck i-45 i wreck two screw tapes
im three wheelin, poppin trunk, goin down fuqua
so move out my way cz im ridin double r
mj right behind me in a lexus bubble car

Trife, you talkin this nonsense about me dissin BIG and you dissin Kast by saying that JUST BLAZE is better? How is it that Jay-Z can use BIG's lines and catch hell, but everybody gives Just Blaze props for samplin 60s and 70s beats? Even though Just Blaze's beats are generally nice, let's not make the mistake of actually thinkin its because he's talented! Puffy did the same thing, too, and he got clowned for it. If Just Blaze would actually come out with anything ORIGINAL then we could judge him seriously as a producer. If anything, Just Blaze has an ear for tight old school music. But who doesn't?! Outkast on the other hand actually comes up with original beats made by live bands and not just samplin Marvin Gaye and The Temptations. Now, I agree, I love DJ Paul's beats, so I disagree with H*WOOD on that and that Just Blaze "butchers" songs. But definitely, Just Blaze's talent is minimal considering his beats are ENTIRELY speeded up samples.

I think Juelz Santana is wack, even though he be havin me rollin sometimes (i.e. "get in the car, don't touch nothin, sit in the car..." LMAO!) I never heard his earlier stuff so maybe I need to steal, er borrow some mp3s from Kazaa.

Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set. Really, now, that ain't tight.

Is it just me or is the worse line in rap right now, "They be like 'Ooh, he the man' when I'm really a Thundercat" by Murphy Lee off of Shake Ya Tailfeather??? What in the name of all that is holy... Thundercat? Why would anyone go around bragging they a Thundercat? What's the benefits? Why not "Super Friends" or a "G.I. Joe?" Thundercat? THUNDERCAT???

Damn right, I get my own paragraph, young... But you ain't nothin but a sentence to me... nah, fuck it, I'll give you a paragraph. Look, you Crimson Tide ass nigga - i.e. Bama/bamma (Get it? Two Pacs/2Pac's?), I like Outkast for the exact same reason as H*WOOD and other reasons like they actually broaden their horizons and come with something new, while still keeping the soul and funk that connects with the blackness (JWL)in(dh) me. And negro, So Fresh, So Clean's topic is obvious. They're the coolest niggas in the game! Or as Andree 3000 said, "the coolest muthafunkas on the planet." How did you miss that? It's basically like Kiss sayin he the baddest nigga with guns, dope, money, etc. They just sayin they the coolest pimps. Now Rosa Parks is out there, and I can't grasp a specific direction, but the song itself is still tight. If I had to guess, I'd say it's about how Outkast can't focus on past success and must keep it new and fresh. Now, Missy sucks, but Timbo does her beats. And she's one of only three or four high profile female rappers. And she's more of a pop rap icon than a good rapper. Like Busta Rhymes. As far as rap skills is concerned, boo. But as far as party raps go, skill(i)s.

Randy Moss is, and has been since he entered the league, the best receiver in the league. TO had a breakout season last year, but Randy Moss has done that EVERY year. In all the negativity surrounding him and his off field antics and on field laziness, what gets lost is that he is hands down the most imposing player in the entire NFL. Yeah, I said it. The ENTIRE NFL! Dude makes triple teams look silly and can mess up an entire defensive game plan. How do you stop the 60 yard lob on two defenders? You don't! Gus Frerotte comes in and just throws the ball in Moss's general direction. Hell, I could do that with Moss as the receiver. Terrell is nice, but he may not be as nice as Marvin Harrison. And I'd still pick Rice over Owens simply because he gon do his thang, make clutch catches, and not complain on a bad day. Priest Holmes, Faulk, McNabb, even my nigga McNair, can't do anything like Moss. Moss has raised an unbelievable bar at the receiver position, a bar that is only rivaled by Jerry Rice in his prime. So no knock on TO, but Randy is on another level.

Don't buy Sheek's CD. I like Sheek and all, but until you hear all of it for yourself, don't buy iy. It could be nice, but Sheek doesn't have clout where you buy his CD just off his name, or even off recommendation from other people. Right now, Sheek is in pure "listen first, buy second" status.

I'm out like a Thundercat. Peace!

anyway outkast didn't start with soul and funk -- they started with crunk. whatever tip dre's on its got nothing to do with hip-hop (just like soul and funk don't necessarily either).

whats that logic?

But like I said I give Producers their props when it's GOOD! I can't say that about Dj Paul unfortunately, the crunk style beats don't connect with me as much... just my opinions and thoughts. Making beats on a Beat Machine is great, but don't confuse it with real music.

Trife thanks so much for proving my point about Lil' Flip! Of all the verses you could muster up to prove a point, you put "This is the way we ball??" Nice try, but when you rhyme multiple lines with non existing words, and also display the word capacity of 2 year old... (Boring, Snoring) you are considered a bad rapper in my book. I didn't even have to mention the fact the dude raps slow as fuck on their too. Freestyle King my ass! I never saw that nigga at Skribble Jam, Rocksteady or Blaze. I can name people at random who can merk that cat of the block.

By the way Qool, Moss is the man. Owens is a short Yardage receiver, he has no real break away speed to get past good defenders. His yardage mostly comes after the catch. Owens is in the short pass yardage west cost offense, so if you put him in an environment where the secondary can match his size & jam his ass on the line... he's not so invincible. As with Moss he's a down field threat on every down. Since he has that acceleration, after the initial jam he breaks off and it's a field day on the secondary. He's capable of putting up more points than Owens. When it comes down to it, I'm going for TD's not YAC (Yards after Catch). Bobby Bowden was very stupid for kicking Moss off the team. I wonder what could have been if Randy would have stayed at FSU & not gone to Marshall...damn! But it seems weed is the weakness of every black athlete. You could only wonder what if...

Oh yeah then you dis "meshing and combining samples to make a beat" but isn't that ALL PRODUCTION EVER!?

Finally, lil flip doesn't use nonexistant words, just screwed up ones. You think its shit when snoop and jay-z and every other rapper do it too? "Heavens above! 'Izzo' isn't even a real word! Those ignorant rappers and their meagre vocabularies will be the death of literacy in this great nation!"

As, of course, are you and Sterling, so.

everyone, i'd just like to note that james blount just said this.