Bonny Tyler's Total Eclipse Of The Heart: classic or dud?

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I'm still upset that Limp Bizkit covered "Behind Blue Eyes" instead of this. I dunno if it's classic or not (I only hear like parts of it on the radio, like most Jim Steinman songs) but it's better than "Behind Blue Eyes."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

trance remixes of eighties songs are the worst thing ever...

― robin (robin), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Was "Total Eclipse..." in the running for a limpbizkit cover, Anthony?

― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Yup, along some Love And Rockets song I never heard of. THE MIND BOGGLES.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I repeat, NIKKI FRENCH = ROWR

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I suspect the secret of the original "Total Eclipse of the Heart" is how it wants "Power of Love" to be "Wuthering Heights", or vice versa.

If there's a problem with Diane Warren/Celine Dion effect it's that it has tended to iron out all eccentricity in the power ballad. That's partly why Bedingfield's "If You're Not The One" is so great, and why "Never Gonna Leave Your Side" or whatever it was is so drab.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

it has tended to iron out all eccentricity in the power ballad

Ah, bless you Mr. Finney. Again you are a genius. :-) But yeah, this sums it up. There is also very little sense of...well, 'camp' is such a loaded word, but the lack of same in favor of sheer pointless formalism in so many of these ballads is wearying. I was thinking of this in particular when watching an episode or two of Pop Idol with Martin during my UK trip, the sheer dullness of one soundalike ballad after another -- more than a few selections coming from Ms. Warren's pen in particular, I seem to recall -- made the whole exercise pure pain. There was nothing to get excited about, no reason to care.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha Australian Idol has been *much* better in this regard!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I misread the thread title and thought that Bonnie "Prince" Billy had covered "Total Eclipse of the Heart". Now *that* would be fucking awesome.

― Nick Mirov (nick), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 05:42 (twenty-two years ago)

it's overblown, camp, manipulative tosh and humanity is poorer for liking it!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 08:58 (twenty-two years ago)

c'mon julio, tell us what you REALLY think!

the song is indeed camp, overproduced, manipulative tosh - and i LOVE it. although maybe it's because i remember asking this cute girl maria to slow dance in grade 7 to this song and she said yes, so i guess it has some sort of significance on a personal level only...

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 09:40 (twenty-two years ago)

jim steinman is THE MAN, and if anyone says otherwise i will beat them up.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

it's overblown, camp, manipulative tosh and humanity is poorer for liking it!

Like Rob says, it's great BECAUSE it's so overblown, camp and manipulative.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

no, that's too obvious. not all that's *really* bad becomes good.

that just reeks of some stuck-in-1992 gen-X cliche

― paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"it's great BECAUSE it's so overblown, camp and manipulative" <> "all that's *really* bad becomes good"

HTH

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:36 (twenty-two years ago)

come on...is it such a stretch?

― paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

"it" (singular) <> "all" (plural)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

(*yawns*)

― paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

ImImpressedOrEvenCare = False

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Just last week I was thinking how it's totally an airsupply song but with way more testosteronesupply.

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 04:00 (twenty-two years ago)

(CLASSIC.)

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 04:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Why are overblown-ness, campness and manipulation bad things? In a novel perhaps they would be - in a movie possibly - but in a pop single??

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Exactly! PS is Tico Tico the silent recently but presumably with good reason Tom Ewing? I'm not sure about the concept of manipulation in general. The world doesn't work like that, you can't avoid what gets termed 'manipulation'.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Tico Tico is Tom Ewing when he's not being a moderator, which at the moment is indefinitely.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Why are overblown-ness, campness and manipulation bad things? In a novel perhaps they would be - in a movie possibly - but in a pop single??

they are not as long as there's an element of 'smarts' to it - not necessarily irony. also if you apply these to other genres (rock, dance) you will surely then have a pop single anyway?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:21 (twenty-two years ago)

In a pop single it is actually worse bcz its concentrated in 3 minutes.

In a 500 page novel if the overblowness etc isn't there all the way through it could be tolerable. Same with a movie: certain awful scenes but its a two hour thing.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

But why is the grandiose bad Julio?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm...The thing abt these ballads is that its designed to make you feel certain things. I guess the emotional spectrum is limited (sorry, I know that kind of reasoning sounds awful but I'm trying to think this one through: I'll just throw this one in...).

I think there is space for grandiose but it is precisely bcz its all concentrated in a 3 minute pop single that it makes it 'bad' to me. Maybe if you played this in a disco it would be fine but I just don't understand how anyone could listen to this kind of thing at home.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 12:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i sort of agree - i have realised that TEOTH is quite a well made song, but the only way i would listen to it is just to contemplate that craft aspect, or to appreciate it as a story/scenario from someone else's (Bonnie Tyler's i suppose) view. i certainly wouldn't listen to something like that looking for emotional comfort, re-assurance or to relate. it is hard to take seriously the idea that anyone would.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Try to imagine the most nauseous, vomit-inducing song you've ever heard in your life and multiply it by a thousand and you're still nowhere near how much I detest that song. WORST HIT SINGLE BY ANYBODY ANYWHERE INCLUDING WHITNEY HOUSTON!!!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

To me "Total Eclipse..." contains the whole range of human experience -- joy, pain, sadness, anger, wonder -- although the "positive" emotions come more from how it makes me rather than the content of the song itself. It reminds me of the best of the first Andrew WK album in how it goes so far over the top it attains a kind of grace. If you like it and feel it only a little, you're doing so w/ a hint of irony, but if you give yourself over to it completely it becomes pure.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Basically it seems that liking this song or not is completely dependent upon how willing you are to let your emotions be artificcially manipulated by a pop single.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

As opposed to you generating yr own emotions authentically, without any awful pop stars involved, because you, TEOTH-hataz are independent of all that shit...

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(My argument only applies to Miccio.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

''because you, TEOTH-hataz are independent of all that shit...''

yes, 'we' are better than you.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

no, that's too obvious. not all that's *really* bad becomes good. that just reeks of some stuck-in-1992 gen-X cliche

Hey, I didn't say that everything that's bloated and camp and manipulative is great. In this case, however, I just relish the it's a big, melodramatic wedding cake of a song. Is it entirely ridiculous? Of course, but it's crafted with so much loving care that I find it hard not to appreciate.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I LOVE this song.

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Why are overblown-ness, campness and manipulation bad things?

They aren't. Not neccessarily. Not when done by the likes of Genesis or Yes, that is, in a tastefull and sophisticated fashion.

Hair metal ballads don't fit into that positive category though

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Tastefully-done overblown camp?

This is an oxymoron.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, forget about "camp" then, as good 70s prog was never _meant_ to be bad (and rarely was either)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

as i said upthread,i really like this song,although i don't own it or anything,but whenever i hear it in a chipper or whatever its always a good laugh...

however,i was curious whether more people would be sympathetic to julio's arguement/reasons if we were talking about my heart will go on or something...

also,i was only a kid,but what did people think of this song when it was first released?

― robin (robin), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess I was about 13 when it came out -- I loved it then but I wouldn't have admitted it, no way. Like many adolescents I was a coward & was afraid that liking this song made me a pussy.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Taking sides: Light in your life vs. Love in the dark

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

As I admitted on the other thread I like "Think Twice" a bit but "My Life Will Go On" is too restrained, it's enormous in a "this is expensive and huge and sensible" sense rather than a "my god how can they get away with THAT" sense - in TEOTH there's a real strain to get the record sounding that enormous, whereas MHWGO can do it with no seeming effort and is thus more boring.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

You can belt Total Eclipse Of The Heart (as you can Think Twice, and as you can't My Heart Will Go On - wrong register, too wussy, and strangely forgettable in the sense that I can remember the fluty bit and the way she sings the title, but the rest? nah). That's why it's classic. Oh, and "we're living in a powderkeg and GIVING OFF SPARKS!"

― cis (cis), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that the line? I just always heard it as "weererreqdadasagakeg giveareaeagasAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHs."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

...well, yeah, it could be that, too.

― cis (cis), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

hey Dan your last thing confused me. Are you saying I don't let pop manipulate me or that I do? Cuz I'm SERIOUSLY pop's bitch.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 30 October 2003 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

another reason for classic status: the inclusion of the video on tv carnage, volume one.

more classic clip on that video: the kid with no legs on the skateboard being chased by the rabid dog

― Dean Gulberry (deangulberry), Thursday, 30 October 2003 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

My only problem with Jim Steinman is that his songs all manipulate in the same exact way - that whole rise and fall thing. I once bummed my mom out by revealing that so many songs she liked were written by the Meat Loaf dude and basically WERE Meat Loaf songs (she doesn't dig the Loaf - she likes the women bombastic and the men mellow if I can overgeneralize). Personally my fave Steinman is "I Would Do Anything For Love (But I Won't Do That)," mainly for the part about sometimes praying for silence, for soul and to god of Sex and Drugs and rock and roll. It's so true.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 30 October 2003 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

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