Bands that are better 'in theory' than in reality

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(counts to ten . . .)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

[That's for picking DJ Shadow, Joy Division, andBoC in one post BTW. I probably agree about J&MC.]

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

You'll have to explain this one - what do you mean by 'sloppy execution'?
I can envision such an argument -- Joy Division weren't a "tight" band in that their chops were nothing to brag about. The songs are stripped down and simple. There's a lot of empty space in JD's music (re: the "nothing" thread :"There is not enough of nothing in it"). Today, bands that want to cover similar terrain of tension and angst usually sound much bigger (Swans, GYBE), so JD's approach could appear to be understated.

I don't agree with anything I just wrote, I'm just saying I can see an argument such as this.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Hah. Sorry, even my 15 year old sister loves Shadow, I just cannot get into it at all. Joy Division, I sympathize with whoever else said they like the singles, but something about the execution always seemed a bit off to me (I'd say that's the one I get the most shit for). Boards of Canada I've been enjoying pretty thoroughly lately but still do not understand some of the superlatives thrown at them and a lot of the more 'subliminal' parts of the music.

― Reed Rosenberg (reed), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, Sundar supplied the non-sarcastic answer I was about to write.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Yr right in that they weren't conventionally great musicians. If the person above who complained about sloppy execution wants chops he'd better stick to Steely Dan.

**Today, bands that want to cover similar terrain of tension and angst usually sound much bigger**

I won't ask if you ever saw them live, cos you're probably 23 or something, but have you heard any good quality live recordings of theirs e.g Les Bains Douches? They made a HUGE sound - check out the brutal Shadowplay on LBD.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll third the Pixies. Something about 'em has always seemed "off" to me and it doesn't click. Mind, I heard my first Pixies song in or aroud 1997.

Add (some) Sonic Youth to the list. As in "Gosh, i haven't heard this Sonic Youth record in ages, but I remember it being totally clinic" but then when I play it it's just sort of okay.

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah. I forgot about Sonic Youth.

'Seems a bit off' is a choice phrase for this thread.

― Reed Rosenberg (reed), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Wilco: The Eagles without all the guilt.

― bhaz, Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

St. Etienne

― holojames (holojames), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I won't ask if you ever saw them live
Dr. C, I'm 29, so your assumption is still correct :) ... but I couldn't agree more re: Live JD, "my" comments were directed toward their albums.
For crushing live brutality, the version of "Day of the Lords" from "Here Are the Young Men" remains my favourite.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

But Joy Division's records are ultra-precise! Stephen Morris was like a metronome in his sense of time. You don't ever even hear a buzzing or muted string or a note out of time (definitely from "Transmission" onwards anyway). Their songs may have been simpler than John McLaughlin's or someone's but that doesn't mean they didn't play them tightly. Where I can imagine a case for 'weak execution' is in the cheapness of the production, the unusual vocal style (which I love to death), and the sometimes crude lyrics.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

yep, st etienne own this thread!

― dave amos, Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

The Shaggs. in theory they tick a lot of boxes, in practice: unlistenable toss. i remember well the last time i was feeling generous towards them and decided to give them another spin. 1st song makes about 45 seconds before i can take it no more. 2nd one runs 30 seconds... rubbish...next...terrible and excruciating sounds...
next...next. My pal foot-foot...shite. who are parents...shite. et al. the Rev-ola reissue has about 17 of the buggers, so my ears were in pain.
in the interests of fair play however: 'Shaggs own thing' is great and weird and incompetent and funny and all that stuff. their dad and brother should have made more records and the sisters should have been kept far away from musical instruments and recording studios.

'Black Monk Time' on the other hand delivers all the way down the line.

Choice of The Kinks is pretty baffling!

― ants jive on whiskey tits, Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

**But Joy Division's records are ultra-precise! Stephen Morris was like a metronome in his sense of time**

Not live, he wasn't! e.g Procession on 'Still' , Disorder on LBD...

**You don't ever even hear a buzzing or muted string or a note out of time (definitely from "Transmission" onwards anyway).**

I'm talking about live performance. Barney was freqeuently all over the place. (and frequently fantastic).

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"The Monks? I dont know ANYBODY that doesn't love the Monks."
Sorry, but I've really tried a few times, and nah...maybe the backstory is just TOO perfect, no mere music could fufill this theory. Course if I heard them live at a USO club in Germany ca.1966 my reaction might be different. It's like w/the Shaggs, sometimes the cult-love for these bands raises expectations to an unrealistic level.

― lovedrug star, Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex how dare you say Gwar

― Thor, Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Boredoms

― jsoulja (jsoulja), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Ruins

― jsoulja (jsoulja), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

23 Skidoo

― jsoulja (jsoulja), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Glenn Branca

― jsoulja (jsoulja), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, most of the "new weird America" bands own this thread.

― jsoulja (jsoulja), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Band of susans 'the word and the flesh' sounded pretty well executed to me the last time I heard it.

Cage had many ideas: so which do ppl think sound exciting? surely not all of them?

x-post: As far as those kind of bands go, it means having to go to gigs bcz a lot of improvisation is involved, and that doesn't always translate well to records.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Alot of the vintage No Wave stuff, really. I love the idea of No Wave, but with a few exceptions, lots of it was just plain unlistenable. Granted, that was basically by design in several instances, but still....

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Any band/artist that has a theory (Laibach, DJ Spooky) is better in theory than in practice.

That being said, I agree about the Velvet Underground and the Grateful Dead (God, I so wanted to like them before I heard them) and Captain Beefheart, and add the MC5.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex how dare you say Gwar

My problem with GWAR is that they just don't sound like they should given their ferocious appearance. I should confess that I haven't listened to one of their albums since probably about 1990 (circa Scumdogs of the Universe) but I remember feeling so let down that they didn't sound nastier, ruder, angrier, louder, less polished, etc. They just don't sound aggressive and heinous enough. They just sounded like bad metal. Maybe they've changed since, but after that record, GWAR became a "see live only" band and not a "seek out all their albums" band.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I knew someone would say Saint Etienne. Sirs, you have acquired a new foe.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Hella

― People love Gravity and Ebullition! (ex machina), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I met a girl last weekend who kept saying hella this, hella that, how Phish was "hella good", and how Trey played "wicked cool" guitar solos. I asked her "are you from Boston or SF?" and she said "yes", gave me a cryptic look, and wandered off.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

logically, she is from boston or sf

― People love Gravity and Ebullition! (ex machina), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

hella = this is sacto not SF

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i didn't realize sacto is so far from sf

Total Est. Time: 1 hour, 27 minutes Total Est. Distance: 87.27 miles

― People love Gravity and Ebullition! (ex machina), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

My apologies, Alex. You have a valid point with Gwar's shortcomings. Especially these days! Gwar Crank-Up-The-Anger reuinion pls (cross your fingers).

― Thor, Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Manowar. They're the best band ever, but 'in theory' they're even better than that.

― Mike Dixon (Mike Dixon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree with beefheart insofar as TMR and even safe as milk are concerned. i like doc at the radar station soooooo much, though. thats the first one thats really made a lot of sense to me

I could see that for "TMR" (it's kind of long and not ideally sequenced), but definitely not for "Safe as Milk". I couldn't ever see myself getting tired of listening to that album, or "Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller)".

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Has anyone heard Mochi's Captain Beefheart vs. Captain & Tennille mashup???!?!?! funnnn

― People love Gravity and Ebullition! (ex machina), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm beginning to think Big and Rich belong here because while I've heard their music and thought it was pretty good, no way in hell are they the suddenly unassailable "best band ever" that they've become in theory. I mean, it's just good music in reality.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

"Band of susans 'the word and the flesh' sounded pretty well executed to me the last time I heard it."

It's their best record. There are many others, however.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

franz ferdinand owns this thread.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Aren't GWAR white supremacists?

I'm listening to a bunch of Pram right now, and they fit this bill without question.

― Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I entirely disagree about Glenn Branca and 23 Skidoo (well, some of their later stuff's better in theory, but in their prime). Saint Etienne I do second, though, and Joy Division I used to listen to relentlessly, and now they bore me for the most part.

― Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Aren't GWAR white supremacists?

No, but their idiotic garb might suggest low intelligence in some form.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

St Etienne are godz, you are all pots for rags. JUNIOR BOYS though 100%, every single reference point implies that they will be the most glorious thing and "winter disco" is so the neatest idea ever and yet I only quite like them a bit not lots.

― Alex in Doncaster (Alex in Doncaster), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

You realize, of course, that now somebody will have to create a companion thread to this one, its antithesis: "Bands You SHOULD Hate But Find Yourself Liking"

Meantime, as for THIS thread:

Birthday Party
Big Star

I'm tempted to say MBV, and would have, if not for the fact that a handful of their songs I found truly thrilling. But all of 'em predate Loveless. (Nothing can top that '88 "You Made Me Realise" EP on Mercury.)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I really want to like listening to 23 Skidoo, and I have listened to all of their records many times over (and was impressed the first few round), but in the end their music is so redundant that it almost qualifies them as "shoegazers".

The thing I find most interesting about 23 Skidoo is how Crash Worship later ripped off both their sound (replacing the "funk" part of the equation with "extra hollering and weird growling noises") and their whole aesthetic (i.e. actual 23 Skidoo album cover art/concepts were lifted and used by CW: martial arts poses, hand symbols, etc.).

― jsoulja (jsoulja), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The Birthday Party were best live, methinks... As for 23 Skidoo, they did end up using a lot of the same themes, but I think what makes them having staying power is how fresh the production is on most of their records, particularly the singles for "Last Words" and "The Gospel Comes to New Guinea" as well as Seven Songs. It sounds like they sat down for teatime just now.

Big Star...I can't even decide whether I enjoy them or not, just like PiL's first album...

― Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I still think it's weird that Crash Worship's drummer joined The And/Ors. It confounds me still, and I actually saw The And/Ors live (playing to about eleven people, admittedly) yet it still makes no sense.

― Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Grateful Dead- absolutely. I desperately want them to sound like they do in my head and they're nowhere near. I still find myself looking longingly at that box set of theirs from a year or two back, even though I know that i'd hate it.

Oh and Black Flag for me. Love the idea of them, the actual listening experience is kinda meh...

― Officer Pupp, Friday, 25 June 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Big Star...I can't even decide whether I enjoy them or not

I agree with Big Star, but only if we're talking about Sister Lovers. The first two albums are great. I have never been able to appreciate the third.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Friday, 25 June 2004 05:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Disco Inferno
The Streets
Bark Psychosis

And I like all of those bands.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 25 June 2004 06:03 (twenty-one years ago)

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