― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 30 July 2004 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:03 (nineteen years ago) link
... in 1988, I picked up an issue of Musician that I still have around for some reason -- I think I got it for the Pink Floyd article on the cover. Figures. Anyway, besides that, there was an informative enough article (for young me, at least) about Joy Division and New Order. New Order had released their Substance compilation the previous year, godlike assemblage that it was, and Joy Division's own Substance collection was about to come out. New Order had on the strength of merely two singles, "Bizarre Love Triangle" and "True Faith," had become one of my favorite bands, and I had taken the plunge into getting their CDs as quickly as possible in the last months of my high school existence. None of them had lyrics printed in their sleeves, as it happens, and I found out why in the article. Near the end, Bernard Sumner said something that turned out to be rather important:
"If you want to print your lyrics, that must mean you feel you have a message that's very important....To us, that sets the lyrics apart from the music and makes them more important than they really are. I try to develop an atmosphere with lines that are conducive to the feeling or emotion of the song."
I think I was initially disappointed in this stance, especially since I really wanted to know more of what was being said in the songs. But it turned out to be the turning point, and while I can't say when for sure, some little while after I stopped explicitly caring about printed lyrics, reading along with them or any such thing. I returned to square one, in ways. I just listened, and it was not only remarkably freeing, it made sense. One doesn't have a lyric sheet when suddenly hearing a song for the first time on the radio or on TV or on computer or via a passing car or whatever.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:10 (nineteen years ago) link
but yeah i generally thin that the "feel" of the singing in the context of the song makes it quite easy not to worry about any infelicities in the lyrics.
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― sexyDancer, Friday, 30 July 2004 17:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:50 (nineteen years ago) link
However, the lyrics to songs like "Bizarre Love Triangle," "Temptation," "Thieves Like Us," and the other early classics when he was just starting to find his own voice identity mean far more to me than anything Ian ever wrote. Ian was obviously fascinated with death, but I think Barney was even more fascinated with life--love, passion, music, confusion, and all the rest--and I find that just as powerful.
― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link
Well said, Doc.
― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:49 (nineteen years ago) link
he got looooooooove technique
― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Friday, 30 July 2004 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link
amen
― Tim Dixon, Friday, 30 July 2004 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 31 July 2004 02:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 31 July 2004 02:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― tk, Saturday, 31 July 2004 04:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Saturday, 31 July 2004 04:14 (nineteen years ago) link
So, yeah, sublime and ridiculous, of course.
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 31 July 2004 04:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 31 July 2004 07:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 1 August 2004 15:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Sunday, 1 August 2004 17:52 (nineteen years ago) link
I recall Bernard saying he was having trouble with the lyrics for the new album, so, I have no reason to believe anything will change in that respect. Don't like it? Too bad. That's New Order.
― Bimble (bimble), Sunday, 1 August 2004 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 1 August 2004 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link
Anyone else going to see them in Hyde Park? Anyone else already seen them this year/seeing them somewhere else?
― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Friday, 8 April 2005 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 8 April 2005 20:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 14 April 2005 20:48 (nineteen years ago) link
Anyone else already seen them this year/seeing them somewhere else?
Saw them for the first time last weekend at the Fuji Rock Festival. It was worth every minute of the 15 year wait. They did Krafty in Japanese on MTV Japan and then repeated the feat in front of 20 000 people later that evening. The set-list was very well balanced and also included 4 Joy Division songs. I don't know what else can be said about these guys, but I love the hell out of them.
― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Monday, 8 August 2005 05:41 (eighteen years ago) link
!
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 August 2005 05:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Monday, 8 August 2005 05:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― Telephonething (Telephonething), Monday, 8 August 2005 05:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― mike h. (mike h.), Monday, 8 August 2005 21:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― Telephonething (Telephonething), Monday, 8 August 2005 22:26 (eighteen years ago) link
22 JUN 82 Rollingstone - Milan, Italy 60
Truth, Dreams Never End, Chosen Time, ICB, Leave Me Alone, Denial,Procession, 586, Temptation, Everything's Gone Green, When I'm With You
Some absolutely brutal performances of Movement-era stuff -- and it's all topped off with a performance of Sparks' "When I'm With You!" What a band.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 18 March 2006 21:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 18 March 2006 21:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Saturday, 18 March 2006 21:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 18 March 2006 21:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― paulhw (paulhw), Saturday, 18 March 2006 23:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 19 March 2006 00:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 19 March 2006 00:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― Le Baaderonixx de Benedict Canyon (baaderonixx), Sunday, 19 March 2006 00:21 (eighteen years ago) link
this comparison doesn't really hold water, unless you're seriously wanting to equate formal objections (NO) with objections to content (misogyny)
― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Sunday, 19 March 2006 00:49 (eighteen years ago) link
there.
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 19 March 2006 02:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 19 March 2006 02:17 (eighteen years ago) link
I dunno, I just object strenuously to the notion that bitching about misogyny in any lyrics, hip-hop or otherwise, is somehow misguided - whereas the case against bitching about New Order lyrics is rather clearer: they obviously don't mean anything, you can just ignore them, even if you don't ignore them they're not likely to do much, textually
I do understand that this is a pointless argument, don't get me wrong, I just hate it when people wanna equate saying nothing in particular with saying (say) that it's cool to treat women like shit
x-post Alfred you'll go a long ways to find a more devoted formalist than me, but to conflate/equate form & content doesn't relieve content of its various burdens
― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Sunday, 19 March 2006 02:22 (eighteen years ago) link