Sasha Frere-Jones: Really?????

yea srsly geir has a self-awareness that takes away from the geirbot aspect imo

it makes perfect sense to me, just the way he attempts humour is always robotic and stiff and perfectly in-character. you can just imagine a computer program "search: phrase ending with word rhymes with geir"

this thread = serious LOLs, but this took the cake: "then i go to a party here where someone's playing dubstep & it looks like an IT dude with a ponytail is playing Quake while he DJs this generation's IDM to some stoned hippies in hoodies".

I didn't really appreciate dubstep until I heard Mala dj and what he played was pretty much anti-IDM, which is what a lot of the best dubstep is IMO. Not to say that I think it is formally against IDM (if that is even possible), just that for me the best of the genre pushes the opposite kind of buttons: basically extremely swung unfussy tough beats and bass lines that are simultaneously quiet storm and jungle tear-outs. It grooves. His mixing style was totally fresh, too. He created a build and tension using techniques like silence or near-silence between tracks, melodic and rhythmic juxtapositions with ultra-short blends, drop-ins of vintage reggae. All vinyl, too.

breaking down ald0us huxley's DOORS OF PERCEPTION right?

then i go to a party here where someone's playing dubstep & it looks like an IT dude with a ponytail is playing Quake while he DJs this generation's IDM to some stoned hippies in hoodies.

Just popping in to say that doing this would have been my dream at about age 19, although it'd probably have been something even dorkier than dubstep at the time.

Ha!

I seriously love this thread. Well here comes one of the dubstep bloggers, and not even Martin Clark, one of the annoying little autists! Jesus Christ, that shit pisses me off. Do you know how hard you have to grind to get indie rock kids into dubstep? That's some supremely intelligent marketing, Kode 9 really is quite the master of manipulation. Between Burial and this Wonky farce he's unleashed, god I love the man's music.

Seriously his deep tunes have pull to them, they've investigated sound as violence. Rhythm war.

He's a fucking recording engineer! Some of these beats learned from riot squad techniques!

The thing about Dubstep is that while most of the rest of Europe was listening to boom time Minimal and Electrohouse, Dubstep is recession music. For the ones who felt it earliest! The mentally ill and the poor!

It stole away some of the best producers in Grime's day, and saw them take the combination of Dancehall and House farther than its paranoid electro. The aforementioned Mala is one part Larry Heard and one part riddim maker, and Coki was a fuckin rudeboy! He went from making some of the subtlest digital reggae this side of Rhythm and Sound to making Digital Fart Noise for Chavs! Fucking Sponge Bob is more punk than its heavy metal, and retarded gutter punk for that measure. This stuff is more abrasive than Justice!

Its so weird to have every single producer you love be really deeply obscure while the worst is on public display. It'll shut you up, make you second guess yourself. And then there's the wonderful house thats coming from some of my fellow IT looking nerds (I've worked in factories for years, I didn't eat at times to listen to this music on vinyl) who used to be into dubstep. Pangaea, Pearsall Sound, all the Funky Dilettantes.

I know that this argument is more about inverted elitism than the music, but still it bothers me to see something I love so much get used as a critical football. Deej, I respect your opinions, especially regarding Chart Rap and Funky. I just dont see why if you can love Gucci Mane, why you can't be interested in maybe digging a little to understand Dubstep. Even as a social phenomenon? I know its very Coast, San Francisco and New York mostly, but its got some really deep roots in now. It already seems to have aroused your intellectual curiosity at the very least, those early nights in Chicago were pretty bad.

If you listen to some Burial (Portishead for the 09 hipster), some Caspa and Rusko (dubstep's Smack My Bitch Up), and then some annoyingly limp minimal crossover. What is there to like?

Respect to John D, you should start recording black metal.

If you've already done so, I'd like to hear it.

"requiring some sort of musicological schooling to really be able to appreciate it. Quality music is about the mind, not the body!"

Just when I think Geir can amaze me no more than he already has.

Btw, that Steely Dan song he linked suuuuuuuucks, advanced chord change and all.

"Advanced chord changes"? LOL

Geir studied music, right? How come he knows so little about it?

looool @ everything in here

Some chord changes are more advanced than others.

http://farectification.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/animal-farm.jpg

The most boring and unimaginative variant there is is various incarnations of Major I - Major IV - Major V

Oh hey btw Mr. Musical Sophistication, capital-letter Roman numerals implies "major" already. If you want minor you use the lowercase letters.

geir half the british fart rock bands u rep for like travis and coldplay use super boring chord changes, i'm curious as to why you think they are good?

Melody!

Geir only likes "advanced chord changes" that don't involve any improvisation, otherwise Giant Steps would be his favorite song of all time

geir you're doing an A+ job as always, please don't ever change!

Jesus christ, that "fancy chord" thing is egregious - what would we think of a book critic who wrote about the "big word club"?

Hurting OTM.

Btw, that Steely Dan song he linked suuuuuuuucks

Can't believe this nearly flew under the SB radar.

I wish Burial albums were as good as Portishead's, frankly.

how on earth has whiney been SB'd but geir hasnt

http://www.momgoesgreen.com/wp-content//wwf.jpg

X-post to Alex in SF

It wasn't meant as a quality indicator, just that the slot reserved for "weird not quite dance music" in your average straw man hipster's (whatever that is) Ipod is taken by this.

And slowing down Bomb Squad style production work does not an auteur make re: Portishead.

Vocals are pure miserabilist, one folk step away from Goth. Talent aside, that is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i8fqo_YrFE

How is this not Trip Hop influenced, its Maxinquaye mixed with Dem 2.

Or even Nearly God, the deeply paranoid Tricky that thought acting was a good idea.

Its so weird how everyone forgot about early Tricky, like the Lee Perry-esque caricature he became changes it.

Massive Attack still get play in Fact and at Resident Advisor (mostly because they're getting remixed by Burial) and Portishead releases a Kraut Rock record to raves. And Tricky, I don't even know what his last three albums were called. Last one I remember the name on was Blowback? The critical community went from fellating the man to dropping him like he was radioactive. Story of a lot of criticism I read, people believe in hype.

Even critics, especially critics. Deejays remember this shit.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/B0000247P4/sr=8-5/qid=1256282375/ref=dp_image_text_0?ie=UTF8&n=229816&s=music&qid=1256282375&sr=8-5

bloody hell!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ypgjh4cfL._SS500_.jpg

Who me?

Just a fucking loser. Didn't go to class, Beuler.

no, seriously, you've posted here under a different display name, right?

Just under Siah Alan mostly, posting dubstep mixes back in the day.

Stuck to the ultra friendly dance threads and was tolerated (mostly) by moonship and Tim F.

I've been posting here at least 4-5 years. Just very slowly.

So I kind of know everyone, even if they don't remember me or where I live.

ok, cool--i never pay attention to the dance threads, for the most part (lol, i'm old).

Really not looking to make enemies here BTW.

It just irks me when I see people mouthing party lines. Or lazy half thought out crit.

Time to sleep, I think. I get cranky when I'm this tired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59NNupminV8

geir half the british fart rock bands u rep for like travis and coldplay use super boring chord changes

Actually, if you look further at it, they don't. For starters, they use a lot of minor and not only major. They use a lot of the same tricks that Paul McCartney used, and his harmonic work was always genius (except when he did boring I-IV-V rock'n'roll songs like "I'm Down" and "She's a Woman").

"Stand By Me" may sound very straightforward at first glance, but its chords, throughout verse, bridge and chorus, do actually visit every single of the possible seven steps.

Geir only likes "advanced chord changes" that don't involve any improvisation, otherwise Giant Steps would be his favorite song of all time

I have a lot of respect for the harmonic work done by jazz musicians. But I think the really genius thing in music is to make something that sounds straightforward on the surface, and which is actually quite harmonically complex when you look into it. "Giant Steps" sounds complex from the first moment you listen to it, and has no straightforward surface at all.

Massive Attack still get play in Fact and at Resident Advisor (mostly because they're getting remixed by Burial) and Portishead releases a Kraut Rock record to raves. And Tricky, I don't even know what his last three albums were called. Last one I remember the name on was Blowback? The critical community went from fellating the man to dropping him like he was radioactive. Story of a lot of criticism I read, people believe in hype.

Fact et al reported on the expanded edition of Maxinquaye though. Tricky's problem was being both super-inconsistent after the first couple of albums and a massive cock. One of the two would probably have been fine.

I remember this article on the making of Maxingquaye being really great (for anyone interested in any music prod): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun07/articles/classictracks_0607.htm

The news we've all been waiting for:

http://flavorwire.com/45316/das-racist-to-sasha-frere-jones-stop-trying-to-kill-rap

And commentary on that reaction (with comments on that)

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/general/2009/10/23/das-racist-goes-after-sasha-frere-jones-for-being-white-n-educated/

das racist are pretty otm i think

i mean the swing vs thump thing was the part of the essay where i *smh* because of all the reasons vasquez lists--regardless of the elephant mane in the room, which is whatever 2 me cause i dont dig gucci all that hard, hes just kind of rong about what constitutes hip-hop musically, both (imo) factually and ideologically

ESPECIALLY because i think sfj kind of ignores the way "swing" gets coded as black and "thump" gets coded as white vis-a-vis blues/jazz vs. euro dance music

SFJ is basically doing high-end google bait where "hits" equals "angry letters to the New Yorker"...but at least I don't have to keep building a straw man when I get all pissy about the myth of disco somehow being emblematic "white" music. Not that I plan on actually reading the SFJ bait so perhaps it's a moot point.

i don't know das racist but i like their thing! both things. even the haikus. might be the most interesting music-related thing i've read in a while! and i agree with them too. and my maria went to wesleyan and she is dope as hell! and so did santogold.

That part might be correct but other part I 'm not so sure about (says this white, college educated guy. Ha). And I did not like the SFJ premise or think it was well stated either.

But notice how SFJ then immediately undermines that credibility: while he could just say “Nas called it three years ago,” he instead claims that while Nas’s sentiment was correct, the proclamation was three years premature, as if to say “Nice try, Nas, but leave it to the professional (white, college-educated) music journalist to make sweeping statements about (black, ghetto-originated) music.”

How would they react to Greg Tate criticism?

well greg tates not white so the power dynamics are a a little bit different

That's kinda my point. Is SFJ not correct because of the combination of factors--white and college-educated and based at the New Yorker versus Nas and his background or versus Greg Tate --black, college-educated and at the V. Voice. I just think they should address SFJ's arguments rather than his power and authority and where it derives from.

but they do address his arguments--theyre just critiquing the power dynamics at play as well

i mean i agree that its the weaker part of the response but that sort of critique is (imo rightfully) par for the course with this kind of thing

on the one hand yeah agree w/this

I just think they should address SFJ's arguments rather than his power and authority and where it derives from.

but OTOH it's helpful & illuminating to raise race/power/class dynamics in these discussions, like I come from a pretty undergrad place with respect to that: always keep pointing out these things, there's not going to be a day when they're not important

but then back on the other hand the way people immediately go for the sneering gotcha! undergrad tone of voice when they engage stuff like this is just very wearying & depressing