Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

more from that Velvet Forum:
-the full Gymnasium tape
-the cale/sterling/reed rehearsals from cale loft 1966
-uncut recent Factory 66 tape

here's a list of uncirculated VU stuff that seems to actually exist.

i'm still hoping that footage of them on Upbeat! shows up somewhere. Lots of clips from that show are in circulation, but considering they made a handful of appearances i'm surprised nothing's around. About one of the shows: "The Velvets performed live on the Upbeat TV show in June 1968 (not June 1967). Moreover, contrary to Sterling Morrison's recollection, they performed a blistering, buzzsaw version of Run Run Run. Their rendition of Run Run Run went beyond their alloted time: thus, Upbeat cut away to a commercial while the Velvets were engaged in feedback frenzy with Lou's back to the camera."

that would be awesome. There was some comment (I think from Moe Tucker) that she couldn't believe, with all the cameras the Warhol crew had going all the time, no one just filmed a straight ahead version of one of the EPI shows.

Is it good?

here's wl/wh:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/8j4j7c

it's a soundboard!!! the only one I know of besides those Matrix tapes. as a result the vox are too loud and the guitars a bit subdued, but the overall recording is much clearer. I still think Problems In Urban Living (Cleveland Oct. 68) is my favorite live boot, love the guitar sound on that.

that's a flac btw

Already downloading from The Nuns site ... So weird that this stuff just keeps showing up. One thing I'm super interested in (that hasn't seen the light of day afaik) is a studio version of "Beginning to See the Light" with Cale.

WHAT????!??!

those Velvets Forum trainspotters mean business man.

http://www.paulvates.com/images/gatwickshuttle.jpg

But yeah, the "Beginning" with Cale is mentioned in the Unterberger book - recorded at the "Mr. Rain" session apparently? With "fuzz bass"? There was talk of it appearing on a projected WL/WH "deluxe edition, I think. Which never came out obv.

LOL, yeah, obv.

But ... maybe now that this singles set has come out, there's a chance of more VU material coming out officially? I think I read that Lou wasn't into having any more live stuff come out.

Hmmm, so I'm listening to this "Retinal Circus" VU show -- and I'm pretty sure some of these takes are the same as appear on Live 1969. Haven't a/b'd them or anything. It's an uncut tape of the show, though, which hasn't circulate as far as I know ... I think that those songs were thought to be from the Matrix, wonder what the deal is! MYSTERY. Sounds great, anyway.

yeh, the wh/wh posted above is the same as the version on the live 69 album

er wl/wh

Yeah, same w/ "heroin", "what goes on", "new age" so far. it's funny to hear these songs w/ audience applause -- on 1969 they cut off almost immediately, sort of giving the impression that the VU was playing to barely anyone. But here they've got a totally enthusiastic crowd. And why not, considering the godlike awesomeness of this "What Goes On."

so I'm fairly certain that these are ALL tracks from Live 1969, albeit in unedited form ... Maybe "Some Kinda Love" is different? Not sure.

interesting... now that u mention it the track times look very similar.

going to John Cale talk at MoMA monday!

What? Nobody told me about it.

Oh, I see.

OK, I'm there.

John Cale talk is being postponed. Very sad.

What was he supposed to talk about? Something specific, or just the Art of Being John Cale?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou0NJ_9IA4g

Sweet Jesus "Venus in Furs" sounds amazing here!

check the moma website under "Looking at Music 2". I think it as mostly about some art instillation/film he's got in the Venice Biennual now or something?

I was hoping he was going to talk in Welsh, about being Welsh.

I think he was going to interview Joe Walsh, about eating Welsh Rarebit.

Cale and Walsh need to restart their long-dormant collab Walsh Rarebit ... shit was off the hook.

ahem ILX user tylerw please report to the "five jazz album runs" voting thread

Damn, gotta check out that Unterberger book. Boring writer but his subject matter's always interesting.

Yeha, often when Unterberger inserts an opinion into his Velvets book, I find myself disagreeing with him. But as a reference, and as a history of the band, I think it's unparalleled. Also, tons of great photos/posters/ephemera, stuff I'd never seen before. And I appreciate that he has in fact listened to the bootlegs, which a lot of writers before him don't seem to have done. In general he doesn't seem too down with the experimental side of the group, even though he does give plenty of space to Cale's pre-VU work, as well as Angus MacLise, which is nice.

There's no way I am gonna be able to finish reading it, tbh.

OK, so I'm familiar with the differences between the original "closet mix" of the 3rd LP and the Valentin (sp?) mix that was put out in the 80's reissue series. I know that "Some Kinda Love" is a different take altogether on the Valentin one. My trainspotter question is: which mix does the recent 4 Men With Beards reissue have? "Cause I already have an original closet one and am kicking myself for not picking the alternate mix up a few years ago when it was cheap.

4M reissue has the Valentin mix.

awesome, thanks.

Think I prefer the Valentin mix, tbh. At least, the take of "Some Kinda Love" is superior.

preordered Kugelberg has arrived

is it mainly photos/posters and stuff? not sure if I need to shell out the $$$ ... Does it come with a CD or something?

I went to Kugelberg's apt once to talk about some post-punk/DIY stuff, and in this one room where he had his record collection, or small portions of it, he had all these cabinets with 12" sized panels, and in each panel was a copy of the first Velvet Underground record. Perhaps different states of peeling, different pressings, different photo states on the back, I don't remember, it was pretty impressive though.

Blimey, how many have I got now? I have the UK original, the Banana one with a 97% intact banana, um.... Oh, an HMV box set version, a deluxe CDversion, oh and how many more...

Wow, mono White Light/White Heat from that Nuns Seawall blog is making me really happy. Of everything I've heard of theirs (Matrix excepted) that's the thing that most needs a legit release (and I kind of wonder why it hasn't happened already).

Yeah, not sure why they haven't followed up that deluxe VU&Nico from six or seven years ago with deluxe editions of White Light and the third album ... Maybe VU&Nico didn't do that well, since it didn't have any unreleased stuff on it?

i thought these would've come out domestically by now, but i scored Japanese versions a couple/few years ago of wl/wh, s/t, 1969 live, and V.U.
the only one that's not a big improvement is '69 live. both white light, and the velvet underground really sound noticeably "better"(IMO) than the mid-1990's releases. and v.u. sounds greatly improved over its original cd release

LPs? Yeah, I got the 3rd album, it was the only Valentin version readily available at the time.

Oh, and does the V.U. one have that intro on "Foggy Notion" snipped from the CD?

Hey, this is the trainspotting thread, innit?

I'll be picking up that singles box tomorrow from the postie!

Will report back tomorrow.

Oh, and does the V.U. one have that intro on "Foggy Notion" snipped from the CD?

I believe that this is only on the original 1985 vinyl pressing but I dunno about the new 4 Men one. It's definitely not on the '85 CD.

speaking of trainspotting, check out this alternate version of VU!

Pre-release cassette sent to radio stations contained what was to be the original version of the album, with different mixes and with Ferryboat Bill in place of Ocean (version different from the Another View one).

(from http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/index.html , a great resource)

Yeah, he actually bought "Sweet Sister Ray" off me!

yeah, that site is vu trainspotter heaven.

The final run-up from $3750 to $7600 all takes place in 11 minutes.

here's one. in the new Keith Richards cover of "I'm Waiting for the Man," he sings "beat up shoes and a big straw hat."

that's not right, i thought. but what does Lou sing? i realized that i had been hearing "Dior shoes" all these years, but didn't have any reason to think that was definitive. but i did google for a pair of vintage Dior shoes that conformed to the image i had in my mind of The Man. something like this:

https://i.imgur.com/kE5GDfH.png

but according to the website genius, what he sings is "PR shoes." this is the gloss:

This is a reference to PR shoes – Puerto Rican shoes – he was wearing what was popular in the height of Harlem for a smack dealer circa 1968. “P.R. shoes” are the type of zapatos associated with hip uptown Puerto Ricans at that time: shiny leather with pointed toe

Lou Reed noted in his book of collected lyrics “Between Thought And Expression” that what’s meant here is “Puerto Rican Fence Climbers”. Which makes sense for a man who may have to make a swift getaway at any time, the ability to climb fences on the run is extremely necessary.

setting aside that the song was recorded in 1966 (and a few other things), this seems like it's legit. but is anybody with access to liner notes from the "Between Thought and Expression" box able to confirm what Lou actually wrote?

google search doesn't turn up much for these, but i did get this. i do feel like i know this shoe.

https://i.imgur.com/S7t3mXc.png

anyway, feel free to post some pics of Puerto Rican Fence Climbers itt

I can do better than that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqENMQnbnxw

("PR shoes" is indeed the correct lyric btw)

We had a thing on this here year back… I also had always thought it was “Dior shoes”

Thread needs some David Lee Roth:

Of "The Full Bug", Roth said 'PRFCs' were "great shoes for when the cockroach moves into the corner and you can't get at it with your foot or the broom anymore. You just jam your toe into the corner and hit as hard as you can. And if you did it right you got the full bug. So this slang means — bammm! — you have to give it everything you've got. Make the maximum effort, do everything possible, get the full bug."

Unfortunately the Diver Down wiki has been edited down, taking away more DLR discussion of said shoes, including a detailed explanation of where their name came from.

no way is the man wearing "beat-up shoes," wtf Keef

XP Found the full quote:

Dave: "You know when you have a cockroach and they run round the house and get into a corner? We used to have these shoes called PRFCs - Puerto Rican Fence Climbers, okay? And this was aptly titled because if you were running from the police or what have you, and you were wearing your PRFCs, you could hit the fence at a dead run and your foot would stay in and you could commence climbing immediately, which was the essence of the whole sport anyway. And these were also great shoes for when the cockroach moves into the corner and you get at it with your foot or the broom anymore. You just jam your toe into the corner and hit as hard as you can. And if you did it right you got the full bug. So this slang means bammm! - you have to give it everything you've got. Make the maximum effort, do everything possible, get the full bug."

yeh I always thought it was Dior shoes as well

much amused by this song by 1977 punk jokers The Snivelling Shits, which is Waiting for the Man but the lyrics are about his love for crap UK soap opera Crossroads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhjWdz541wM

but is anybody with access to liner notes from the "Between Thought and Expression" box able to confirm what Lou actually wrote?

It's not the liner notes to the box, it's in his book of lyrics of the same name. It's literally just an asterisk next to the line "PR shoes" with "* Puerto Rican Fence Climbers" written at the bottom of the page.

thank you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eihW4LdR6yw

Lou explains the reference mid-song (2:23)

great, thanks for this as well

New very chopped up version of "I'll Be Your Mirror" bgm on some corny-ass Expedia TV CM.

decided to put together one of my periodic "covers of an album" mixes with the third velvet underground record. realized some of the best covers i had were live so set an extra challenge of putting in all live versions. tends towards the classic rock side, including folks who are not super in vogue right now, but i'm going with it anyway

ANOHNI - Candy Says (2003-06-26): one of the most beautiful fucking things ever. it just means so much to me. lou reed's last live performance was accompanying a gender non-conforming femme (ANOHNI is a trans woman but Lou wouldn't have known that) singing lou's song about candy darling. candy died about five years after the song was written at the age of 29. ANOHNI is, i don't know, 52 or 53? her actual birthdate isn't a matter of public record. i'm 48. i came out and transitioned at age 43. i think it's beautiful that ANOHNI, who sang this song with Lou Reed at his last performance, can sing this song _now_. for me as a trans woman, i have a _lineage_, i see a lot of trans women as having a _lineage_, and ANOHNI's goes right back to Candy Darling.

The Dils - What Goes On (1978-08-05): this version goes on _forever_, which is how long "What Goes On" should last in my book. It doesn't last as long as the Velvet Underground playing it at the Hilltop Festival (which is also one of the greatest things of all time), but it's a good eight minutes. Heavenly.

Spacemen 3 - Some Kinda Love (1986-03-06): Kind of a weird choice for them, this is the only recording of them doing it. It actually suits their playing style really well! This listen through, this lyric hits the most: "Let us do what you fear most / That from which you recoil but which still makes your eyes moist." I guess in the past I've had a hard time getting past "Put jelly on your shoulder". I still have no idea what the fuck kind of sex act that's supposed to be. I guess it doesn't matter. The rest of the lyric, I'm still working really hard on that. Shame is a challenging thing. If Lou recoiled from lying on the carpet for whatever reason, well, I hope he was able to do that anyway.

Hole - Pale Blue Eyes (1992-02-11): I don't know too much about Hole, honestly. I know a lot of people hate Courtney Love. I know a lot of people give a lot of women a lot of shit they wouldn't give men. I know plenty of people dismiss Courtney Love as being a talentless grifter. I know she got married a little over a week after this performance. I know this performance fucking kills.

Smog - Jesus (2001-12-10): Everybody wants to do this as a gospel song. Maybe a Peel Session is cheating. Birds. I don't know. Birds. ANOHNI's breakthrough record was "I Am a Bird Now". One of Bill Callahan's most beloved records is "Sometimes I Wish We Were an Eagle", the album he ends by singing "It's time to put God away". Those are the two records I think of when I think of birds and music. Mostly I think of birds by their absence. I feel like Bill Callahan best conveys the complexity and ambiguity of the song's approach to Christ.

Bettie Serveert - Beginning to See the Light (1997-11-27): I genuinely feel that Bettie Serveert are the best interpreters of the Velvet Underground's music ever. Yes, better than the Feelies. Somewhere I have a bunch of really great performances of Velvets songs that aren't on this '90s album, and I like them even better, if anything. This performance, though, is the one that kicks off their album of Velvets covers, and it's a corker of an opening.

Thom Yorke and Beck - I'm Set Free (2002-02-26): Yorke and Beck are both... complicated people. As far as I know this is the only time they performed better. Some charity benefit or another.

The Feelies - That's the Story of My Life (2018-10-13): Just because I feel that Bettie Serveert are the best interpreters of the Velvet Underground doesn't mean I'm not incredibly fond of the Feelies. This is one of those songs that doesn't get covered a lot... Serveert and the Feelies are both good at highlighting the hidden gems in the Velvets' catalog. I'm not saying "That's the Story of My Life" is a hidden gem. It's just kind of... there, you know? I can't imagine the album without it, though. One of the parts the whole is bigger than the sum of.

Pete Hayes (of The Figgs) and The Maybe Sump'ms - The Murder Mystery (2013-11-20): No, I have no idea who these people are. All I know about them is that _they performed the Murder Mystery live_, and really, come on, who's going to _do_ that? It's the Revolution 9 of Velvet Underground songs, except not quite, because "The Murder Mystery" is a song that one _can_ theoretically perform live the way they do it on the album. It's just _really fucking hard_. So whoever these people are - mad respect to them. For the record I fucking _love_ "The Murder Mystery". Again, I can't imagine the album without it.

The White Stripes - After Hours (2000-12-21): Another complicated one. Being a woman in rock is complicated. Particularly Meg White. She's a rock drummer who sings sometimes, and isn't a virtuoso at either but has a lot of charm and personality, and it's kind of... easy to kind of push her into the Maureen Tucker role. And she's not. I don't know _who_ she is, really. I don't have the right to know who she is. She lives her life out of the public eye, but people do put pressure and expectations on her that aren't, I don't think, fair to her. So I'm conflicted about featuring one of her performances in this context. Still, it is a performance, and it has been publicly released. It's just a performance, though. That's all.

Most of these performances are officially released in some form. The Spacemen 3, Smog, and Thom Yorke & Beck performances aren't, that I'm aware of, but should be reasonably easy to track down. The Pete Hayes and Maybe Sump'ms performance isn't either, but it's available on Youtube, presumably with authorization.