One of the tensions that came up when I had Cognitive Behaviour Therapy was over precisely the issue: I refused to accept that I (or anyone else) had intrinsic value.
Dude sounds like he needs a visit to a little place called the "Watercooler Thread".
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 9 July 2007 17:36 (sixteen years ago) link
haha.
"But better that hell than the empty certainties of ruling class confidence."
if he wasn't a putz i would sympathize with him here. but to him, me going to poxbridge makes me "one of them" already. the hot news about the ruling class is that their famous confidence is largely a projection tied up in social ritual, same as it probably is in other classes -- certainly in the middle classes. most english people of my acquaintance have, in private, some kind of class anxieties. they also have other kinds of anxieties, believe it or not! some of them suffer illness and bereavement and loneliness, or so i hear. certainties, empty or otherwise, seem pretty thin on the ground.
but not to accept the intrinsic value of people seems far worse a view of humankind, to my mind, than the no doubt sloppy and neo-liberal and human rights-oriented view that everyone has worth and deserves universal rights, etc.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 9 July 2007 17:47 (sixteen years ago) link
He seems like a very serious fellow. I don't have anything against what he's trying to do, but I often have a hard time following him.
― Patrick, Monday, 9 July 2007 17:48 (sixteen years ago) link
"intrinsic value' and 'worth and (deserving of) universal rights' are a bit different, no?
you could consider it a desirable state of affairs for everyone to have a range of entitlements and duties in exactly the same measure, and this to be a baseline index of 'social worth' and still consider 90% - or even 100%- of people to have no 'intrinsic value'
xpost
― sonofstan, Monday, 9 July 2007 17:55 (sixteen years ago) link
why would you want that outcome if you didn't think people had intrinsic value? i said i thought everyone had worth, which is just a synonym for value here. i get that some people are keen on taking the moral imperative out of left-wing politics.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 9 July 2007 17:59 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-748.png
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 9 July 2007 18:23 (sixteen years ago) link
rofl
― latebloomer, Monday, 9 July 2007 18:25 (sixteen years ago) link
y know i'm kinda glad he has control of a blog rather than my local council
― acrobat, Monday, 9 July 2007 18:42 (sixteen years ago) link
why would you want that outcome if you didn't think people had intrinsic value?
Because you might think society would be more peaceful - and therefore more pleasant to live in for you personally - if you treated people *as if* they had worth?
i said i thought everyone had worth, which is just a synonym for value here. i get that some people are keen on taking the moral imperative out of left-wing politics.
Actually I think replacing politics - and justice - with a moral imperative or ethics can be a problem; relying on individual good will, rather than coherent collective action means solving a famine in Africa becomes a case of appealing to the good will of first world citizens, rather than collective action by the people immediately affected
― sonofstan, Monday, 9 July 2007 21:29 (sixteen years ago) link
k-punk don't give a fuck
― xero, Monday, 9 July 2007 22:16 (sixteen years ago) link
no, i don't think that follows. why should a moral imperative be linked to individual action (let alone good will, which is another thing)? 'solving' famine is a) in everyone's interests b) a moral imperative.
but it's also a practical problem, and of course acts of individual first-world citizens won't do much on their own. on the other hand, other first-world citizens willing collective action by africans won't achieve anything either.
i have little clue 'what ought to be done', but without the moral imperative, without the idea that the lives of africans have intrinsic value, what else is there? to value collective action *in itself* seems odd.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 9 July 2007 22:29 (sixteen years ago) link
why should a moral imperative be linked to individual action (let alone good will, which is another thing)? Fair point. I don't think it should, but was assuming you were connecting the two - bad argumentative strategy
― sonofstan, Monday, 9 July 2007 22:48 (sixteen years ago) link
I think he likes the idea of music more than the music itself...
...like that ghostbox haunty thing or kode9
sorta nice concept but the tunes just arent that flash...
― pollywog, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 12:37 (sixteen years ago) link
Does k-punk seriously think that ILM is representative of "ruling class anti-intellectualism"? Or indeed of anything else?
― Neil S, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 13:27 (sixteen years ago) link
That'd totally work if not for the fact that a bunch of classless americans wander around here
― mh, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 13:56 (sixteen years ago) link
Results 1 - 10 of about 13,900 for "bored office workers". (0.12 seconds)
It's really not that hard to understand, you know.
― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 14:04 (sixteen years ago) link
That's me, alright!
― Neil S, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 14:06 (sixteen years ago) link
I think he likes the idea of music more than the music itself
I think that's a truly awful thing to say about someone!
I like k-punk, although, like Enrique, I realise that I'm the kind of person who can never win with him. But he makes me think, and he writes some really good, more-than-readable pieces. He also makes me wish I understood a lot of the stuff he mentions in passing: I don't feel too intimidated and shut-out by what he cites and how he cites it, and that's quite a rare thing to come by, I think. He can be aggressively wrong and annoying with it (though there's others in his general orbit who are genuinely nasty, which he isn't), but in the main I fall on the side of classic.
― c sharp major, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 14:12 (sixteen years ago) link
there's a dissensus thread where they pick apart his aversion to marijuana and analyze it, if you want to see someone get defensive, it's worthwhile
― mh, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 14:34 (sixteen years ago) link
intimidated is an interesting choice of word.
― acrobat, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 14:43 (sixteen years ago) link
'chav' v 'eton boy as dalek'
why is one generalization akin to a hate-crime and the other is not?
― Gukbe, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 16:37 (sixteen years ago) link
Link to weed thread?
― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 16:46 (sixteen years ago) link
https://twitter.com/kpunk99
― nakhchivan, Monday, 30 March 2015 00:32 (nine years ago) link
Meta
― sonic thedgehod (albvivertine), Monday, 30 March 2015 00:55 (nine years ago) link
Miss this guy for real.
― happy to approve (Mr Andy M), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:18 (seven years ago) link
http://repeaterbooks.com/books/post-punk-then-and-now-gavin-butt-mark-fisher/
^^^this is something i probably need to read (if only to be cross how much i've been missed out)
― mark s, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:25 (seven years ago) link
RIP
― Stevie T, Saturday, 14 January 2017 15:27 (seven years ago) link
Just saw that he'd died from Geeta's twitter. Fuck.
― emil.y, Saturday, 14 January 2017 15:28 (seven years ago) link
:O
― U2 (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 14 January 2017 15:32 (seven years ago) link
i was at uni with Mark, and tho i don't remember us crossing paths i think it's likely that i did and i've just lost it along with most of the rest of my memories. which is apt i guess.
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2017 15:35 (seven years ago) link
Fuck. Just read on Twitter. RIP.
― Sunn O))) Brother Where Art Thou? (Chinaski), Saturday, 14 January 2017 15:39 (seven years ago) link
Really sad about this. I used to enjoy being challenged by his blog posts, when I cared about such things. And I really did. And he was really unique.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Saturday, 14 January 2017 15:59 (seven years ago) link
Never got around to reading capitalist realism but I liked the Michael Jackson book he put together
― wins, Saturday, 14 January 2017 16:09 (seven years ago) link
I was debating the other day on whether to preorder his new book that comes out at the end of the month. I remember when Google Reader still existed and checking for updates on a handful of blogs was part of my daily routine, it was a good day when he'd posted something new. I'd usually put it to the side until I had the time to sit and give his writing my full attention.
― mh 😏, Saturday, 14 January 2017 18:02 (seven years ago) link
Yeah I read his blog pretty religiously for some time. This is just terrible news.
― U2 (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 14 January 2017 18:15 (seven years ago) link
RIP. Used to read his blog religiously, even if I didn't always follow/agree.
― Gukbe, Saturday, 14 January 2017 20:55 (seven years ago) link
http://www.factmag.com/2017/01/14/mark-fisher-k-punk-capitalist-realism-has-died/
His wife, Zoë Fisher, confirmed his death on her personal Facebook page, saying he had taken his own life.
― j., Saturday, 14 January 2017 21:47 (seven years ago) link
Excellent interview from 2014. http://www.neromagazine.it/n/?p=20620
― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 14 January 2017 23:29 (seven years ago) link
Ahh fuck, so terrible to hear this. RIP
― The boy who cried 'wolf' in a crowded theatre (Mr Andy M), Saturday, 14 January 2017 23:41 (seven years ago) link
Oh no.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Saturday, 14 January 2017 23:56 (seven years ago) link
RIP, this is awful news. I always got a lot out of his writing.
― Gavin, Leeds, Sunday, 15 January 2017 11:29 (seven years ago) link
that nero interview is good. if there are any other good interview links post them here. he was swell in conversation.
― scott seward, Sunday, 15 January 2017 14:52 (seven years ago) link
http://blissout.blogspot.com/2017/01/rip-mark-fisher_14.html
― j., Sunday, 15 January 2017 20:08 (seven years ago) link
http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=13999
https://itself.blog/2017/01/14/mark-fisher/
― j., Sunday, 15 January 2017 20:12 (seven years ago) link
http://rougesfoam.blogspot.com/2017/01/negativity-not-pessimism-rip-mark-fisher.html
― 0 / 0 (lukas), Sunday, 15 January 2017 22:22 (seven years ago) link
https://www.facebook.com/johnfoxxandthemaths/posts/1708297872529197
― Andy K, Sunday, 15 January 2017 22:45 (seven years ago) link
it's really striking how many people there are saying that reading his blog was a formative experience for them
― soref, Sunday, 15 January 2017 23:36 (seven years ago) link
Through twitter I have been surprised at the range of people saying he was a big deal for them. Capitalist Realism has made quite an impact.
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 15 January 2017 23:55 (seven years ago) link
I just read capitalist realism over the break. Good read, rip
― if young satchmo don't trumpet i'm gon shoot you (m bison), Monday, 16 January 2017 02:26 (seven years ago) link