― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 28 July 2003 20:31 (twenty years ago) link
[the record is WAY better than the REALLY LAME Fairuz record I bought; I am no worrying that Fairuz is actually rubbish, and the good record I have by her is an aberration]
― DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 3 August 2003 22:39 (twenty years ago) link
What I think about Fairuz is that she is a great singer, but doesn't have the best judgment about what material to use. Basically anything from the 80's forward is iffy. But the styles in which she works are extremely varied. But I bet there is more than one CD worth material by her that you would like. I can't be as helpful with her, since I don't know her nearly as well as I know Kalthoum. (Of course, that unevenness is partly why I don't know her work as well.) What Fairuz did you get? Have you heard Soiree Avec Fairuz? The sound quality is really poor, but the music is quite good. That's cheating a little since it's more classical than most of her work.
― Al Andalous, Sunday, 3 August 2003 23:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Al Andalous, Monday, 4 August 2003 01:44 (twenty years ago) link
― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 4 August 2003 10:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Al Andalous, Monday, 4 August 2003 12:01 (twenty years ago) link
― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 4 August 2003 13:33 (twenty years ago) link
In his chapter on the specifically musical aspects of this music, he introduces the term "heterophony" (which was new to me): "As a cultivated form of artistry, heterophonic interplay is a primary feature of takht [small ensemble] music. In practice, heterophonic texture exists in two closely related formats, an overlapping type and a simultaneous type. The first occurs when a leading music part, typically a vocal improvisation, is accompanied, for example, by an instrument such as the qanun. In this case, the accompaniment 'echoes' the leading part at a slightly delayed pace, or in a rather 'out of sync' fashion. The second type applies mostly when ensemble members produce slightly varied renditions of the same musical material at the same time. This happens when takht instruments perform the same basic compositions together, but with each one rendering it differently through subtle variations, omissions, ornamental nuances, syncopations, anticipations, and so on. . . . [I]n Umm Kulthum's live recordings from the 1940s and 1950s. . . [i]n certain middle sections. . . heterophonic activity becomes particularly prominent, a suspenseful and musically focused mood engulfs and audibly moves the singer's avid admirers." Racy also comments on how heterophony has become less common in Arab music, due at least partly to the fact that it became more difficult as the takht grew into a small orchestra with an entire string section.
"Tarab artists demonstrate a striking proclivity toward moving loosely with the beat, as comparedto performing strictly on the beat, for wandering about without losing track of the underlying temporal structure. They seek a desirable balance between metric orderliness and rhythmic freedom. . ." Racy discusses this in more technical detail, but it's hard for me to excerpt or summarize, since I'm still getting a handle on it.
It's sad to me that while improvisation was making a come-back in the west, via jazz (primarily), Arab music was moving away from it, in emulation of western classical music.
Incidentally, Racy makes clear the respect in which Fairouz is a break from the tarab oriented tradition: "Meanwhile, increasingly transformed and internally varied, the musical mainstream had to vie with more recent and more novel-sounding musical expressions. One example was a Lebanese urban popular style which, pioneered in the late 1950's by the Rahbani Brothers and associated with the celebrated female vocalist Fayruz, dervied elements from the local folk repertoire, Western music, and traditional Arab music."
― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:29 (twenty years ago) link
For example, I read--SOMEWHERE, but I can't put my hands on it--a quote from Oum Kalthoum criticizing her 40s-50s work for being too exclusively concerned with tarab, and not putting enough emphasis on putting across the text (which was very important to her). While I suspect this might partly be a matter of denial on her part that her best years were behind her, I also think there is a certain amount of Arab suspicion of tarab (which is most commonly translate as "ecstasy" but doesn't have an exact English equivalent), and not just among fundamentalists. The Lebanese composer, Marcel Khalife (a Christian, incidentally), expresses misgivings of music which gives itself over so completely to emotion, and has actively sought to keep a balance with more intellect involved. I wish Racy would write something about this, since when I write, it's largely a matter of wild speculation based on a few pieces of information.
― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 05:00 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 22:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 23:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 00:21 (twenty years ago) link
I'm listening to these mp3s. I like "el ward" and "gharidou" better than the first three.
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 02:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 02:19 (twenty years ago) link
Check out "A Voice Like Egypt," a film about Umm Kulthum based on Virginia Danielson's research.
― fatima, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 02:32 (twenty years ago) link
(Do the MP3s on that page add up to enough to make a CD? Not that I would know how to do this.)
― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 10:02 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 13:00 (twenty years ago) link
Now let's see if I can figure out how to copy them onto a CD, because I'm just borrowing this computer for a moment.
― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 13:32 (twenty years ago) link
I met Laur Daccache in Egypt about seven years ago, I was invited to the Woman's league of Egypt, which was headed by a friend of mine and Mrs. Hosni Mubbarak, and the people said to me, they heard that Laur Dacashe was a singer but she had no records or tapes available in Egypt, so they had to rely on my word that she was a great vocalist in the early 1950's[.] It was strange to have to vouch for a great singer like her, Today finding her songs on Cd are rare indeed, like her big song Amanti Bellah (I believe God).
― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 13 December 2003 23:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 13 December 2003 23:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 13 December 2003 23:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 14 December 2003 07:39 (twenty years ago) link
Today I went to a record store and saw a discount 5-CD box set of Oum Kalthoum, simply entitled "The Diva." It was on the Next Music label. Do you know anything about this and whether it's worthy? It seems like perhaps it could be a good entry point.
Thank you,
Amateur!st
― amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:13 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:16 (twenty years ago) link
If it has these songs:
Volume 1 1. Azkouriny 33:37 2. Salo kaos al fella 31:13
Volume 21. Hadeeth al rouh 26:23 2. Ghareb ala bab el raga 22:26
Volume 31. Woleda el hoda 56:54
Volume 41. Gadet hobak leih 39:18
Volume 51. Al nile 27:04 2. Nagh el borda 22:56
Then I recommend it. (Those were posted by H. above.) I don't know every song, but I know some of them, and this is from part of the best part of her career. The only possible downside is that some of the recently reissued separate CDs for these may be remastered and sound better, but frankly, the sound quality is not going to be fantastic for these years.
If it's a collection of the five volume EMI Diva series that has several songs on each CD, I can't personally recommend it, because that's a little earlier than I like. The experts still consider it good material, but I just don't get it myself.
Anyway, if there are more than three songs per CD, then it's probably from earlier than what I'd suggesting listening to. I just looked and I see there are a couple possible box sets this could be, so I don't know exactly what we are dealing with.
― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:32 (twenty years ago) link
You can probably find it at amazon or cduniverse, but it will almost invariably cost a lot more.
― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:36 (twenty years ago) link
I'm somtimes confused as to whether you are referring to albums or songs in your recommendations above.... Or are they one and the same thing essentially? The Gilbert Joseph in Paris has a large collection of O.K. CDs (although I imagine there are Arabic stores aplenty that would have more, and for less money, but I wouldn't know where to find them) from which I might choose.
Can anyone burn a CD of that Laure Daccache stuff for me? I've had no luck finding the CD...
― amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 01:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:01 (twenty years ago) link
― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:21 (nineteen years ago) link
I have somewhatthe same feeling about her as i about classical music - ITS SO GOOD! but also once you start you can never stop so its a lil frightening.
― H (Heruy), Friday, 13 August 2004 00:46 (nineteen years ago) link
Anyway, I don't recommend feeling guilty about it.
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 00:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:08 (nineteen years ago) link
I wasn't aware of all the Oum Kalthoum guilt. Now I feel bad, like I'm responsible for everyone's guilt.
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:13 (nineteen years ago) link
Which actually reminds me, Rockist - I first heard of Kalthoum a number of years ago through an old anthropology prof who had asked me to digitize some of his old reel-to-reel tapes (!) of middle eastern music. THe thing was, he didn't remember / hadn't labeled all the tapes, so some of the artists are unidentified. I love this collection (burned myself a copy), and I'd love to find out who some of these people are, but my knowledge is very limited. Could I send you a copy of this thing? Perhaps you might recognize some of the artists. Let me know...
― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:45 (nineteen years ago) link
Did you ever have any luck finding anything else by Laure Daccache? I looked everywhere in Paris for the one CD that had been released (on some tiny French label), but turned up empty-handed.
― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Friday, 13 August 2004 04:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― Sasha (sgh), Friday, 13 August 2004 06:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Friday, 13 August 2004 06:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 10:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:08 (nineteen years ago) link
I've only listened to it once and I know I really ought to give it another try but I'm afraid I'm not over inclined to 'cos it really didn't anything for me at all the first time.
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 13 August 2004 11:31 (nineteen years ago) link
It is and you did; but alas it was too late!
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:32 (nineteen years ago) link