Indie Guilt: C/D

Sterling,

I prefer that the kids not talk about "the kids" because they are, in fact, "the kids." People over 40 can do whatever the hell they want.

Cheers.

b-but why did you buy them in the first place? can't you COUNT!?

i stand by my maximumrocknroll joke.

(that was to jel)

I like indie. I don't feel guilty. Maybe I'm lying to myself! I like pop music too. I don't really feel guilty about that either. I like old timey country music. I'm obviously compenstating here for liking indie and pop music guilt here.

Josh, that was brill. It does sort of feel like, when you get into indie, that you must be monogamous to it - well, this is the sort of music I like now, and this is *all* I like... and I'm happy with it, really, I am! But I'm not like a puritan or anything, I mean, my wife and I try a lot of crazy positions and buy a lot of dub!

THE ANSWER IS YES

an·he·do·ni·a
Pronunciation Key (ahn-hee-donh-dn-ah)
n.
The absence of pleasure or the ability to experience it.

All this hand-wringing about indie is funny. I buy a whack of records each year and some are indie and some are not. It doesn't even consciously enter into my mind what fuckin' label a record is on anymore. It's just not worth the brainwaves.

Jess that was so emo.

It IS possible to like both Sleater-Kinney and Missy Elliott, right? I mean, so long as you take them as musical entities and not some overblown sociopolitical signifiers and overall more or less avoid acting like this guy?

i·ro·ny
Pronunciation Key (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i·ro·nies

The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.

Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain).
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.

"Atheism is the conventional way to be unconvential". Or is it hating indie? Ah....

in·die
Pronunciation Key (nd)
n. Informal
One, such as a studio or producer, that is unaffiliated with a larger or more commercial organization.
An artistic work produced by an independent company or group: “ [His film] showed that indies could... take in millions at the box office” (Liesl Schillinger).

adj.
Of, relating to, or being an indie: an album of indie rock; an indie film company.

you just slipped up one on yr pronunciation key, jess

Atheism is GRATE.

all definitions provided by the fine people at dictionary.com, used for purposes historical or satirical.

(how does the irony pronunciation work? and does the fact that it doesn't prove that irony doesn't exist - as ironically enuff, it in fact doesn't...)

Do they still make indie music?

and bringing it all back home:

guilt:
Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong.
Self-reproach for supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing.

Why the guilt, ex-indie rockers? new answers please.

Mark S,

b-but why did you buy them in the first place? can't you COUNT!?

If sequencing or song placement is the measure by which you determine the quality of a record, then I am very pleased indeed that we have little in common with regard to taste in music.

I know it must be endlessly rewarding to develop such a carefully calculated theory about "Symmetric Tracks Per Side" (or STPS as "the kids" are calling it), but the records sound so much better when you actually take them out of the sleeves and play them once in a while. I know, then it won't be MINT anymore, but you could always eBay it.

Oh, and I love your answer to the original question. Very direct.

Cheers.

I don't think people are saying they feel guilty about once having been into 'indie' music. More acknowledging that they once were and aren't anymore...which, is like fair enough. Obviously, there are jokes about indie here and there on ILM, but if you like 'indie' then why be so defensive? It's not like ILM is stopping people from buying indie.

(oh God, I sound stupid when I try to make a sensible point )

haha jess maybe you should post that irony definition again

OOOH! I'm not being defensive at all! it's hard to maintain the original question and precepts through this entire thread.

case in point: In the 1996 thread, someone mentioned defending any year (with rare exception) with "indie" records was *gasp* "precarious" (interesting how these words are used usually by people who quote dictionary definitions O_o), yet this person is clearly an indie product (as tackily (but necessarily as to make this particular point) referenced above). there is a definite anti-indie backlash in this forum, usually by those who possibly embraced it harder than others. i singled one person out unfairly, but this person is far from being the lone voice of indie guilt on ILM.

i'm looking to answer the question, not attack any online persona... Esp, not any wigga! Some of my best friends are wiggaz. w3rd y0! I think Josh's answer is most OTM so far.

young mc taught jess to love music you fool

jess is the lone voice of giant lettuceheads on ilm

"Obviously, there are jokes about indie here and there on ILM, but if you like 'indie' then why be so defensive?"

"Do not feed the troll."

if you like anything, then why be so defensive?

josh i think youre forgetting someone

I had the same reaction as ethan when I saw that list... like... a buncha indie albums makes a good year for music? C'mon, what was happening in the charts, with the stuff that most people were listening to?

Indiephilia!

I do think ILM sometimes protests too much about indie e.g. all the connections and references to Pitchfork. I think FT/NYLPM/ILM are perhaps more reactionary then they'd like to admit. (But that's a small strike against, and easily worth swallowing for what the whole offers.)

ppl only convince themselves they "like" indie because they're so embarrassed abt the daft chartpop they genuinely loved as kids

"ppl only convince themselves they "like" indie because they're so embarrassed abt the daft chartpop they genuinely loved as kids"

Do you really believe that, mark s? It's difficult for me to follow all the switches between sincerity and irony in this conversation.

sincerity & irony = equal affectations.

And only indiekidz care about EITHER!

namdam was so persuasive with his much-repeated wife-beating question that i decided to take "guilt" seriously as a motivating factor in all musical taste evah

unless his = her

I had the same reaction as ethan when I saw that list... like... a buncha indie albums makes a good year for music?

HAHA, it's not ALL indie records, I won't defend indie, somebody else's music. I'm more concerned about Indie Guilt phenomena that runs rampant on ILM. It's confused me.

HAHA, if someone would have put all jazz records (or all country/electronic/dub/house), i guarantee all y'all indie apologists would've stroked their chins in unison.

C'mon, what was happening in the charts, with the stuff that most people were listening to?

there's some groundbreaking shit that has influenced all the way into the POP stratosphere there right here and now today. obviously someone was listening to those records...

Sterling, do you think that rejecting indie self-consciously after finding someone else who shared the same (i'll use this word cautiously) "precious" LoComDenom/indie interests as you has made you into someone who wants to have GCD shared musical interests (eg, the hip-hop/pop listening pile?)

its a big big world out there, and indie comprises a small percentage of it. and theres nothing wrong with that. but rather than indie guilt, i looked through that thread and it was jam packed with indie records, over-represented i thought (and i picked suede stereolab third eye foundation and ghostface killah, so i am guilty of indie over representation also - because i was listening mainly to dance music from from 15-present)

and wqhere was the guilt on the tful282 thread. i must admit, i just can't see it

See the 96 thread now. "No Diggity" was a big single that year, and THAT'S im-fucking-portant.

& I didn't self consciously reject indie after that, but now lo-this-many-years-later I can look back and perhaps see that as something pivotal, something which shattered my perception of the nature of the music and a person's necessary relationship to it, which broke through some idealist strand of essentialism and forced me out of that particular rut.

Well, "My Heart Will Go On" was a big single in 1998, for instance. Is it a question of what 'most people' were listening to or a question of what were the most striking/original/worthy sounds 'most people' were listening to? Which is a good way of looking at it, but then undoes this initial division between small and large audience by throwing artistic qualifiers into the mix...

Also, none of the albums you listed in that thread were even the particularly better albums by those artists. I mean, they were a bunch of FAIR-TO-MIDDLING indie albums, not great ones. Defending the late 80s with the 'mats and sonic youth would have been much more reasonable, or even 94 with the cast and crew of Simple Machines & co.

its a big big world out there, and indie comprises a small percentage of it.

That's going to be the nature of lists by one person any time, not just with indie. It could be a list consistenting of indie, pop, and smooth jazz and still it wouldn't encompess music as a whole. I just don't think it's possible for one person to listen to everything and make an informed decision being totally fair to all genre's, all while comparing apples to oranges. I'd rather see personal lists, i want to know what YOU liked in 1996 regardless if it was indie or not.

i know, but the personal lists were pretty indie heavy too, including mine (i feel kinda guilty about that, heh heh heh!)(i dont do emoticons, sorry, too indie)

i'm still loving the idea of stroking chins over jazz! jazz is just indie with trumpets yo!

See the 96 thread now. "No Diggity" was a big single that year, and THAT'S im-fucking-portant.

More important than TIGERMILK? [totally joking here]

& I didn't self consciously reject indie after that, but now lo- this-many-years-later I can look back and perhaps see that as something pivotal, something which shattered my perception of the nature of the music and a person's necessary relationship to it, which broke through some idealist strand of essentialism and forced me out of that particular rut. i understand, agree (!?!?), and more importantly, that was nice and concisely put. i think there is a lot of personal reasons not worth getting into with this subject and i admit I didn't have the right angle at first, but amid the varying pleas for sympathetic chortles, there were quite a few nice replies. i have to leave ILM now for the lab (please, hold back the groans and tears), but I have definitely learned something today about ILM and the extremely essential love/hate indie relationship within. thank you all.

thank YOU gygax

does being slighty flippant about indicate that really i'm indie as hell, and real guilty about it????! thats like those arguments where whatever you say someone says "ah, you see, that just proves it, cuz i knew you would say that".

if yr all so indie, answer my damn Smashing Orange thread already...

extremely essential love/hate indie relationship within

but this was always obvious! you make it sound like something all hidden! genres=love/hate.

and every poster has the same affliction. deraymi's salsa/arabic interests? ha! just fronting, hiding from his Matador CDs!

i knew you were going to post that