why is everyone on ilx so betrothed with the village voice?

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seriously, i've not read it ever.

don't know anything about it except mailer started it.

i get the feeling its the equivalent of NOW or EYE magazine is in Toronto. Am I wrong?

'Cause sometimes ILX and Village Voice feel like that couple in love on the bus - kissing - you smile - and then get annoyed occassionally with their constant smooching.

Help?

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

this is not a negative/positive thread just a'wonderin' aloud thread.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not.

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

(Flip/honest answer)

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

several ilxors write for it but you its not a big deal.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

It has a website, check it out, it's vg.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

err .. ok!

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

They have the killer one-two punch of Xgau and Eddy.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

who are xgau and eddy?

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

betrothed or besotten?

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Robert Christgau, longtime Voice music critic, and Chuck Eddy, the music editor.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

not trying to be flippant - i hardly read any music magazines and do not know history.

o.k.

is there anything, like, err, really spectular that you could recommend for me to read?

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

like, err, something that you may have read, where you've walked away, feeling all post-coital 'cause you've been fucked good?

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

The other nice thing about the Village Voice is that it's not the New York Press.

― dlp9001, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

"A Message Board Collective Married A Newspaper" - film at 11 shocker.

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

i.e. link me up when you've got time.

i do believe i gots to go now folks.

i live in london, england. and before that, toronto, so pedantics won't make the impression on me, dlp.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

They have the killer one-two punch of Xgau and Eddy.

Actually, they're shit, but the film section is top.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

*waits for chuck eddy to start posting in this thread*

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

it would be cooler if people who read village voice and not write or edit it appear on the thread. so, somebody can point me towards the direction of genius and it just would be cooler.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

The film section is pretty good too. Hoberman can be infuriating but he is one of the more erudite film critics working.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Christgau and Eddy are good writers who have the tendency to hate bands I dork out over, so I'm kinda torn. Frank Kogan is choice, tho.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

link me up with the pinnacle of genius or give me thread death!!

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Some examples? I'd say try one of Christgaus' Consumer Guides - they're usually pretty much models of the form.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

i can get these in england?

i'm going to do some x-mas shopping tonight.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

doomie do your own goddamn homework you lazy piece of shit.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

what did you think of the van dyke parks album you downloaded off me btw?

― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

o.k., i've written down that one bloke's name. anything else i should look out for?

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

that was you gareth?

i like it. i've got it back in canada but only on vinyl. : - (

so cheers on that!

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, here's a Kogan piece that I really admire:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0329/kogan.php

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

jess, i know you write for the village voice, i don't think there is not a person whom you've told on ilx. i'm looking for recommendations from people on ilx. so mind the language!

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

cheers, o nate - i've printed it off. gots to go now.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

yea, what was the other thing you downloaded? i forgot now, but i think it was something that i wasnt so into, and then removed. cant remember what it was though:(

― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

dunno.

hey, gareth - i sat next to you on the 91 bus! i was going to introduce myself but thought that it would be sort of weird.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i do remember that you had a choice selection of mp3s at work. hmm - was it colin blunstone? bill fay?

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

read the music coverage in the la times and la weekly for a few years and then you'll understand why it's a huge deal to have a place to find chuck eddy, kogan, metal mike saunders, gary giddins, sasha frere-jones, et al. the vv music section has more depth, breadth, ideas, good writing than anything else on paper.

― dan (dan), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't read that many music papers!

i'm more obsessive about the music than the journalism.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

it was neither of those, i dont have anything by those people. if things are in the main folder, they get moved on pretty quick, either to be organized with the stuff that is going to stay, or to be deleted because i dont like them very much.

― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

gareth, i regret not introducing myself! i was thinking of a good way to do it and then you had already left! : - (

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I am not marrying, and have no plans whatsoever for marrying, the Village Voice. I might read the website now and then, though.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

o.k.

i was on the hunt for:

third ear band - macbeth soundtrack
bill fay
colin blunstone
gerry rafferty
taking of pelham 123 ost
van dyke parks
and something else.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

No more Gary Giddins.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

cheers on the recommendations. off to x-mas shop now. : - (

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

i also dont tend to read the music press very much, mainly because the music i like doesnt get very much coverage unfortunatey (this has always been the case to at least some extent). however, on the occasions i have read the voice, it has been pretty good. dave q on zz top was excellent, his writing is a joy to read, but i think we are all pretty au fait with that, so know already whether we woud like it or not

interestingly enough, i was reading the nashville citypaper yesterday, and they had some interesting political stuff. the other paper in nashville was ok too, dont know if it is the kind of thing i'd want to read regularly, but its good to see something coming from a different arena

― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i have david shires pelham 123 soundtrack. its really good, but its on vinyl at my parents house, i should try and mp3 that one of these days

― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

nashville, texas, etc - been on a boho-cultural resurgence as of late. yeah, i hear you, i don't read the papers much because music i love is not covered. i try to address that when i write. i think i write just so i can read something somewhere about the music i love! haha.

gareth - i would love you forever if you did the mp3's up of the david shire soundtrack. i'll share my cherished fearless vampire killers soundtrack if you do!

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

well, it is in the queue of things to get done, hopefully over christmas (i also have285482587 rave records, and 2659862976926 techno records to do also, plus a bunch of soundtracks and various bits and bobs, and some rave tapes and peel sessions and and and and and)

nashville didnt really feel too boho to me, it was bourgeois rather than boho, at least around vanderbilt/hillsboro etc

did pick up jean shepard and ray pillows i'll take the dog though

― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the nashville in my head is probably better than the one that exsists. still texas is on the list of places that i need to visit. ha ha. i hear you. i promised tim hopkins the double of the first jimmy webb album and fuck me i could not find it. i have some ridiculous amount of records stored at my friends place. i did put an effort in (tim if you are reading this - the richard and thomas frost record is going in the post on thursday...)

i'm off to christmas shop and then review this band in camden and then write bobby conn write up and i'm saying this not to be cool only to say that i'm fighting this goddamn cold and all i want is sleep ...!!! but off i go to oxford street. SIGH.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm still here.

i realise that small elves are not going to buy my x-mas gifts. sigh. ELVES WHERE ARE YOU WHEN I REALLY NEED YOU.

― griffin doome, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

the elves have their hands full in middle earth today.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked the VV even before I liked people who then wrote for it. I liked it cause it wrote seriously, wittily and provocatively about a broad cross-section of music which happens to be the broad cross-section of music I'm interested in (i.e. pop, hip-hop, dance, bit of world, bit of rock, bit of indie, bit of jazz, blah blah).

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 64 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

sorry. i am beyond tired today. 70s live-action clown shows would reduce me to tears and laughter today.

― doomie x, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

alex i'm with you! (forgot my sarcasm tag, as usual)

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

doomie, it is actually pretty hilarious, but yer Grime Lurve references are off the mark.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

but i made a 'knowing' allusion to wiley. does that count for anything-anymore?

(someone remind me why doing three nights of live reviewing ontop of everything else is just basically a very tiring thing to do.)

― doomie x, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the Voice's music and film sections, but generally I find idealogues to be tedious, and the Voice is a flash point of ideology. Identity politics are a bore too.

― shookout (shookout), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

but i made a 'knowing' allusion to wiley. does that count for anything-anymore?

no, cos Alex doesn't like Grime and the grimeists in the VV are mostly ILXors who weren't at the game. :)

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/040119softball.jpg

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

ken griffey's grotesquely swollen jaw...

― peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

steve sax and his run-ins with the law...

― peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I like BASEBALL okay, but really my sport is LACROSSE, which is the one true sport, except for EXTREME IRONING, which I've never played but I'm certain is pretty much the greatest.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.karlschatz.com/photoblog/images/ashville_1363.jpg

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Iron Maidens.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it true Nat Hentoff is "a national treasure?"

― shookout (shookout), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

yup, a big ol jazz lovin free speech defendin prolife national treasure bear

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait so in softball people are allowed to complain that balls are being thrown too fast!?

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, yeah, it's called "slow-pitch" softball. You pitch underhanded, which means the arc of the pitch has to be just so in order to get over the plate....and getting it over the plate at a velocity that isn't deemed "too swift" by those considerate of the arguable skills of a co-ed team. It's tougher than it sounds, actually. I'll concede....my pitches can be on the swift side (I didn't earn the nickname "speed metal" for nothin'), but it ain't like I'm whippin' bullet trains at'em (and I've fielded very few complaints from other teams). Moreover, as I've labouriously alluded up-thread, their first two pitchers departed from established convetion as well....but we didn't complain.

In any case, if my pitches were too fast (and I asked my teammates and captain if they thought they were..everyone said 'no'), that would've been fine. I think I took exception to the manner in which the expressed their discontent (a seeming fatwa on actually swings, lots'n'lots of attitude and lots and lots and lots of heckling). Yeah, I know, chatter is all part of the game, but in many cases yesterday it was gettin' a wee bit out of hand. Got a problem with my pitching? Why not respectfully take it up with my team's captain instead of being needlessly vindictive jackasses about it? It was just an ugly, ugly atmosphere towards the end of the game (key word there: "game", as in "fun" and/or "recreational activity").

But, y'know, whatever....spilt milk. I'm sure the next time our two teams face off, it'll simply be more of same. C'est la guerre.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know man, if someone can't hit an underhanded pitch at any speed they shouldn't be attempting to play a sport ("sport"?) in the first place.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

in most "for fun" slo-pitch leagues i've been in, your own teammate is the pitcher and you get 3 pitches or else your out.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 12 August 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

To the best of my knowledge, the VV team is called the Veggies. Pretty intimidating.

Alex, what publication are you playing for?

― Akiva, Thursday, 12 August 2004 04:30 (twenty-one years ago)

TIME Magazine. We've never settled on a proper name (early contenders were "the TIME Bandits" and/or "TIME: The World's Most Interesting Softball Team", but we never reached a consensus).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

The vogue soccer team has scary t-shirts:

http://www.gawker.com/topic/2004_08_judgingyou.jpg

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i am judging them unsilently.

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I am loudly judging these fashionistas on the following grounds:

The one with the fat back has bad accessories and her bra strap is showing. Anna Wintour has probably sacked her for disgracing the uniform already.

I nominate for their next slogan we are reliving our formative years in junior-high cliques

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i just can't get over the word "betrothed" in this thread title

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you betrothed with it?

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 12 August 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm betrothed with this thread. It's a hoot.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 12 August 2004 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

when someone bitches about your pitches, alex, that's when you put the next one behind their head

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 12 August 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"Silently honouring the fire" should be printed on the back of the Time team's shirts.

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Thursday, 12 August 2004 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Or "RAISE YOUR STANDARDS"

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

or "how about a little New Yawk Press up the aaaasssss, beeatch?"

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

yup, a big ol jazz lovin free speech defendin prolife national treasure bear

Don't forget, he was in favor of war in iraq.

― djdee2005, Friday, 13 August 2004 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

BASEBALL IS SUM PUNKASS BORRRINGGG YANKEESHIT!! Not all us Voicians are NYCentric. (And if yall want to stop wondering about TexassTrashVegass or wahtevux, just get off yr ass, or onto it depending where yr keyboard is, and go to villagevoice.com, type the name of whatever music or anuthang into the searchbox (put it in quotes or you'll get even more irrelevance than otherwise. You'll find stuff re Tx, etc, and it links to whole VVMedia Empire: seattleweekly.com, nashvillescene.com, etc.! Simply unbelievable, but true.

― Don Allred, Monday, 16 August 2004 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

What language is this?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 16 August 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Pardon outburst. I'm just jealous because I live in the country (which one?), and third base is not what it should be. Besides, Meltzer thinks it's good *because* it's boring, so either way I'm wrong

― Don Allred, Tuesday, 17 August 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

that clears things up.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

The Voice is scheduled to play the NY Times tomorrow. If I hit a HR against Kelefa Sanneh I'll let everyone know. The team is indeed called the Veggies, I am so sorry for that.

― Joseph McCombs, Tuesday, 17 August 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm still mad, by the way, but somewhat saddened to learn that we won't be playing you guys again (or I don't think we are, anyway). Good luck against the Times. They shouldn't cause you too many problems.

We're supposed to play someone today (...maybe Lippincott?) Don't know.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"'Cause sometimes ILX and Village Voice feel like that couple in love on the bus - kissing - you smile - and then get annoyed occassionally with their constant smooching."
Besotted rather than betrothed.
This point hasn't really been addressed here. The answer is implied on the "what if you edited a music section" thread.
I've only been visiting ILM since late last year but I've read the Voice since 1977. Every week, save for the six months I boycotted after Peter Noel wrote "Hilary Clinton is controlled by Jews" during her Congressional run.
Often ILM seems like an adjunct to the Voice music section. I find this frustrating as a reader, and somewhat mystifying. Why limit yourselves this way? The overly reverent attitude toward the Voice is exactly reminiscent of mainstream music fans' traditional awe of Rolling Stone. There is no final authority on anything. I thought the Internet was about letting a thousand flowers bloom, etc.
I still enjoy reading the Voice music section and I really do respect Chuck E and Xgau to the utmost. Partly because I often think they're dead wrong, but they make do make you think and re-think. I've come to love ILM for all its fresh voices and vociferous debate. But I do think this Voice-worship has a stifling effect on the discussions here. It's starting to feel quite insular/clubby in that good ol' "indie" alternative way. Maybe that's what you want, I don't know.
Really not trying to piss everybody off, put anybody on the defensive or start a raging argument here. Just offering some food for thought from a fan.

― DJ Hollywood, Tuesday, 17 August 2004 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but wait `til you play'em in softball, that's my point.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Doesn't EVERY internet message board feel insular and clubby though, no matter what the subject is or who the people involved are? Or maybe not, what do I know. Once a group of people feels comfortable enough with each other and hangs out long enough in the same place -presto- you've got a club. And I still see plenty of critique of the Voice and lots of other stuff on ILM. Having said that, I never thought I would hang around a place with so many people whose WORK I admire and respect. I mean, there are loads of them on here. And people who don't write whose ideas and opinions I get a kick out of in a big way. I would have taken off a long time ago if it was just sheer ego-stroking and nastiness directed toward everyone else in the world. (though there is some of that.) I HAVE had my ego stroked on ILM before and that's nice, but there is something else that you are missing, Hollywood. Sometimes ILM can be a good place for *encouragement*. It can spur you on and perk you up and the good work done by others can be inspiring and light a candle under your keister. You know? I'm here cuz Kogan brought me here, and he is someone who has no problem picking nits with the Voice. Me, I hate lotsa stuff about the *NEWLOOK* Voice and I'm sure I've expressed my opinions somewhere on here. And My fave magazines are Brave Words & Bloody Knuckles & Ugly Things. And my fave newspaper is the Philadelphia Daily News. (and the NYT. And the wine column in the friday WSJ)

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Scott thanks for your well-considered and thought-provoking response. You are a class act, sir.
Do you ever read the capsule art reviews in the second section of the NY Times Weekend section on Friday? They're usually smartly written and unintentionally hilarious at the same time. Those wacky artists -- what'll they think of next?

― DJ Hollywood, Tuesday, 17 August 2004 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

scott otm

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

altho i miss it when ilx was betrothed to the trigger

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm with you, sterl. Or at the very least a couple of tico tico head scratcher threads every once in a while to keep everyone honest.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 August 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the bettah blogs can help clear up that realpaper ccloggage. I say, Scott, have you seen thefreelancementalists.blogspot.com/? Don't hag a wuhwuhwuh on it or you wont get there from here (or from anywhere)