"I'm a sovereign human being, I stand under common law only" - Thread of Freemen

i guess what i'm speculating about -- more in the context of US politics than UK politics, i don't know about the workings of german or french ditto -- is the point at which "just one option in the toolbox of people who enjoy dicking around during their day in court" crosses over from beleaguered low-information numpties who think they've been given one weird trick to game the system and dodge their fine or (since the situations are sometimes somewhat more pointed) not get their house taken away, and arrives in the hands and mindsets and just-asking-questions projects of lawyers looking for ever-new ways to game and rewire the established electoral system

such activist lawyers do already exist in substantial numbers: but for now they mostly merely disdain the numpties and the sovcit project: it wd be more chaotic than helpful! and while there *are* always individual lawyers who function as chaos-goblins, they are one-offs, while the federalist society for example is highly disiplined tactical and strategic as an activist movement

i think i agree that the crossover is some way away, but

i was gonna say before it seems like the stakes are a bit different in the US also because there are fewer professional disadvantages for judges who want to play the maverick, in fact it looks like there are career benefits to doing that? whereas in other countries' legal systems you get the odd publicity-hungry douchebag but it's largely in a judge's interests to behave like a good establishment player

but then my understanding of the freeman stuff is it was born in that US context and so is much more ridiculously cargo cultish when you try it on outside the US?

tbf Australia seems to have its own chaos energy which might account for yerman in the video that launched this thread revive

they have compulsory voting in Australia, that can't help.

There do seem to be a disproportionate number of these heid-the-ba's in Australia. Pioneer spirit, wide open spaces etc.

hi darragh, nice to see u

good posts all, solid analysis imo

co-sign at the nice to see you, darragh

American legal ideas derived from English common law or the US Constitution (I think some of the Canadian “truckers” a couple years ago were claiming that their “1st Amendment” rights were being violated, and weren’t some Scots weirdos recently going on about the Magna Carta) are spreading to places that have totally different Civil Law systems, can’t see how that will be successful.

Those truckers were mega into the Manitoba Act of 1870

(xp) There was some nonsense where a few headbangers tried to occupy Edinburgh Castle or something during the lockdown, citing the Magna Carta ... it didn't take long for someone to point out that Scotland hasand always has had a different legal system to England and they could stuff the Magna Carta where the sun don't shine.

the section in magna carta abt the entry fee to tourist sites

― mark s, Wednesday, 18 August 2021 10:53 (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

what is Runnymede if not a tourist site?

Ugh that Balogh guy has friend-of-friends on FB that I recognise, lol. I only looked him up cos I went to school with some Baloghs (one was an Olympic gold medal shooter) but I dont think this cooker's related.

West Ballina man Luke Daniel William Simpson fails in Ballina court ‘sovereign citizen’ licence appeal https://t.co/n297wOwN8p via @dailytelegraph

— Vaxatious Litigant 💉 (@ExposingNV) March 22, 2023

"You have no jurisdiction ...I have documents, I do not submit to the maritime law," he said.

Ms Stafford replied: "You say I have no jurisdiction, but you have requested a licence appeal under my jurisdiction."

"Yeah, but otherwise ..."

Worth reading the attached doc for insight into current kookiness:

Accused Jan 6 conspirator James Beeks files motion seeking to.... "TO DISCHARGE INVOCATION OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE"

He uses language & references potentially consistent w/ sovereign movement. And.. has list of grievances about recent news & federal government

====> pic.twitter.com/sHTzQ68wdt

— Scott MacFarlane (@MacFarlaneNews) May 5, 2023

it's funny that they always say all this but then still abide by the government's authority anyway, like few of them are ever in the courtroom violently twisting and trying to run for the door, they just shout "THIS IS ILLEGAL" while people laugh

That's why they insist on the right to carry guns. Oh, wait ...

Anyone see that show 'Jury Duty'? Leaving aside the sketch ethics of it, somebody needs to do that show but for one of these creeps- 'judge' to be all like "You've got us, we're under admiralty law here... the flag in this courtroom has fringes/no fringes... furthermore, I am arraigning the state prosecutor on charges of high treason"

On top of everything else...fun font choices there.

xp "it's unconventional, but I will allow it"

remember this guy, as talked about 7 years ago upthread?

U.S. Superior Court Judge Bruce Doucette (not a real judge)

well...missed that this happened two years later (lmao)

https://www.cpr.org/2018/05/22/sovereign-citizen-bruce-doucette-sentenced-to-38-years/

handy solid and detailed study of how well the sovcit manouevre is playing e.g. in australia:

🧵
1. “I’m a living man, I was travelling not driving!”

A pseudolaw adherent w/ an affinity for Latin maxims & United States case law, has failed to convince the Victorian Supreme Court that he was not a “driver” of a “vehicle” pic.twitter.com/Pfwrbr8JNH

— Vaxatious Litigant 💉 (@ExposingNV) August 28, 2023

Why do all these weirdos think US law is like, the law everywhere. (I know the answer, American cultural domination of the Anglosphere)

It's not just weirdos who think that everywhere is the US ime.

Starting to think my next door neighbor might be a sovcit — his pickup truck has no license plates at all, not even hand-drawn fake ones.

when these folks are locked up do they spend all day going "i'm not locked up, I'm free to leave whenever I want, I just don't want to right now"

"I meant to do that"

His driver's license just says McLovin

I’m guessing that when these folks were kids, they were the ones who ruined games by saying “you’re it, times a million and no returns” and walked off congratulating themselves

joke's on this guy for failing to cite Maritime Law

irrelevant as far as the roads act goes tbftta

dry but thorough academic overview of the rise in para-constitutional activism: https://consoc.org.uk/the-rise-of-constitutional-conspiracism/

he spelt "Savile" wrong, i suspect a conspiracy

A resident of Bedminster, South Bristol, has erected a large fence in front of their terraced home & announced knocking on their door or putting anything through their letterbox is a ‘minimum £25,000 fine or 1500 troy ounces of British silver coin’. pic.twitter.com/tm20Vye5x4

— Tristan Cork Post (@TristanCorkPost) December 12, 2023

There is obviously some pathology involved here.

"troy ounce" is an excellent new wrinkle

pretty extreme response to junk mail, i just recycle it

Troy Ounce = Notting Hill drug dealer

alright martin amis

i think previous metals are always weighed in Troy ounces, but I'm not really sure about the difference (basing this on a trick question i heard once about what is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?)

internet says it's about 10% more

chances are troy weight's equivalences were different for different metals in different regions, measurements pre-standardisation are wildly chaotic (even worse in pre-revolutionary france mind you)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit_(unit)

"Already in 1863, the hobbit was used as an example of the "customary confusion in our British weights and measures". An anonymous contributor to Charles Dickens's journal All the Year Round, arguing in favour of the decimal metric system, noted that[5]

"If (I buy wheat) at Wrexham, (I must order) by the hobbet of one hundred and sixty eight (pounds) (76 kg). But, even if I do happen to know what a hobbet of wheat means at Wrexham, that knowledge good for Flint is not good for Caernarvonshire. A hobbet of wheat at Pwlheli contains eighty-four pounds (38 kg) more than a hobbet at Wrexham; and a hobbet of oats is something altogether different; and a hobbet of barley is something altogether different again."

many of the 'pints' of beer I buy here in California are anything but

tbf no pints of beer in California or anywhere else in the US are actual pints

I hope that dipshit's house is egged constantly, pausing only for people knocking at his door and running away at random times.

don't forget dogshit through the letterbox

Well. today i learned

The pint is a unit of volume or capacity in both the imperial and United States customary measurement systems. In both of those systems it is traditionally one eighth of a gallon. The British imperial pint is about 20% larger than the American pint because the two systems are defined differently.

slightly less than 20% because US fluid ounces are bigger than UK fluid ounces

the british gallon is measured by the bladder capacity of the current monarch

hence to get royally bladdered