"I'm a sovereign human being, I stand under common law only" - Thread of Freemen

xp
the hammonds already reported back to federal prison a couple of days ago and are incarcerated. this wankery won't change that.

xxxp it still amazes me how people can be so blind to the basic facts that form the foundations of their lives.

who do you mean by "they"?

the Hammonds, father and son, reported to jail two days ago

http://abcnews.go.com/US/oregon-ranchers-expected-report-california-prison-amid-armed/story?id=36079385

the Bundy militia people are... different guys

xps ha

afaik, although there's no list of people, there are no Hammond family members (that were not supposed to be incarcerated) present according to reports. pretty sure that's been mentioned in the thread a few times.

these folks see their own day-to-day struggles and they listen to shitheads like Limbaugh who constantly teach them to resent the government and after a certain point, there is no room left in their heads for anything new. they're fully baked and from that point on they can only grow stale.

thanks goole.

yeah its the double standard that is so upsetting. weird there are two BLM's right now. one is protesting very real death and systemic abuse, the other making a violent stink about the right to ignore law and order.

I have a friend who is an econ professor at a land grant state university in the rural western US and some portion of his workload involves outreach via each county's extension office.

Often this means that he meets with ranchers and farmers at town halls and such where they constantly vilify him and the federal government for their onerous taxes and regulations while utterly ignoring or being unable to comprehend that their entire existence is due to the largest water reclamation project in the country and the heavily subsidized irrigation that it provides. His predecessor was so pissed about having to do this sisyphean job for so long that after he retired he still goes to these meetings to yell back at these guys.

― joygoat, Wednesday, January 6, 2016 12:49 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah this is... it's so bizarre. i think a big part of the problem is how the symbology and mythology of the west both enables the situation and is deeply contradictory / anathema to it. if you hold it close you're a deeply deluded fool who is going to be coddled enough to keep the illusion out there but mostly exploited in real terms. if you do see it and you still want to be a part of it you have to be cynical. there's a rot that happens as a result. imo the original sin is a genocide that has never been openly acknowledged / dealt with. i mean it's basically a colonial nightmare.

to me its scary these militia people are bringing this stuff across state lines. they want to create an interstate threat.

smh adam blm stands for bureau of land administration

adam can you take a nap and come back to this or something

Bureau of Land Management

this is old by a day or so but I love its ignorance

After Bundy defended his decision to lead a small militia to take over a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon, Kelly challenged him.

"You know the argument on the other side, which is, these ranchers — whom you support but are not directly involved — had their day in court. And they were found guilty, and it went all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, which denied their appeal. Isn’t that the way it’s supposed to work in our country when it comes to the rule of law?" she asked.

"Yeah, well let me ask you — and I’m sure you know the answer, but who was the plaintiff?" Bundy asked in response.

After a pause, Kelly told Bundy to "keep going."

And when Bundy asked the same question again, Kelly took another brief pause.

"I’m waiting for you to make your point. Generally I don’t answer the questions on my show; I ask them," she said.

"Oh, I mean, it was asked intending to be answered, but the plaintiff is the federal government," Bundy said in response, adding that there is no "proper redress" for the people in such situations.

NO REDRESS. except for multiple appeals all the way up to the fucking supreme court.

right thx i'm typing during a meeting and got distracted midway thru the acronym xp

One of the sustaining myths out here in the rural west is "I work damn hard, constantly, so all my success is due to my hard work." This is, of course, a very self-flattering myth and thus very appealing. After all, most ranchers do work damn hard.

The fact is that most homesteaders in the same areas worked much harder, lived on a much smaller real income, failed in spite of backbreaking toil, and had to move away because the land would not support them no matter how hard they worked. The successful homesteaders usually succeeded because they got onto the right parcel of land, bought out their failing neighbors for a song, and hung on by their fingernails until WWI brought a commodities boom. Even then, they barely survived until the federal government programs of the New Deal put the local economies on a more stable footing.

after he retired he still goes to these meetings to yell back at these guys.

I love this

local native tribe says "get the hell out"

Burns tribe says armed activists 'desecrating' Oregon land

<3

OK so these Hammond guys aren't so great either

(trigger warning: descriptions of child abuse)

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/04/3735722/meet-the-child-abusing-arsonists-at-the-center-of-the-oregon-militia-standoff/

"I work damn hard, constantly, so all my success is due to my hard work."

one of the sustaining myths of capitalism even

Yup

Colin Meloy of the Decembrists has been tweeting erotic fan fiction about the Malheur standoff.

@colinmeloy
"Jason pressed Jed against a rack of "Birds of Oregon" books; his breath was sweet with jerky. Somewhere, an egret cried" ‪#‎bundyeroticfanfic‬

Apologies if this has already been linked, but this is a good 'splainer: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/upshot/why-the-government-owns-so-much-land-in-the-west.html.

Among other things, it notes that the ranchers couldn't afford to buy the land, and it would cost states too much to administer it, so it would be tricky for the feds to dispose of even if they wanted to.

that's a very strange notion, since, you know, the government itself is setting the price for the land. either it isn't priced to market or it's implied that other parties (but not the ranchers) would be able to buy the land.

When Astroturf Patsies Go Rogue lol

If the federal government were to divest itself of federal lands directly to private ownership, they would sell it in such enormous parcels that only banks, insurance companies, hedge funds, or pension funds could afford to bid on them. These owners would, in their turn, go about maximizing their profits on those lands as they saw fit. Handing them over to ranchers at bargain prices seems like the most unlikely outcome of all. More likely the new owners would just put up no trespassing signs and sit on their investment, if it didn't yield an immediate 30% profit.

That's why the Bundy types want the lands turned over to the local counties. Lots of these counties are very sparsely populated, so it would be relatively easy to capture county government with just a small amount of horse-trading, back-scratching, and a healthy dose of voter intimidation whenever needed. Just the way the KKK worked in the Jim Crow south.

Is this a really dull story? Feels like one.

you're bored of it, congratulations

http://usuncut.com/news/oregon-standoff-member-caught-drinking-donation-money/

xpost, well I'll keep checking in case someone posts a link to an article summarizing the situation! Can't wait.

That summary could be pretty long, since there are a lot of facets to the story.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/3/10703712/oregon-militia-standoff

so good http://gawker.com/we-sent-the-oregon-militia-idiots-a-care-package-1751223009

That Vox summary had the look and feel of something tossed together in about an hour. Its facts were factual enough, but woefully insufficient to arrive at any understanding of the situation at all. It didn't even connect the few facts it contained in a particularly coherent sequence.

yup

Who is Vox Media writing for?

Oh. An ironic link, then?

nah I think the link was in good faith but I agree w/your critique

I found that thread pretty interesting in and of itself, they only got on my radar recently

Vox thread, that is

xxp thx Aimless, useful explanation

tensions w/local increasing

http://thelapine.ca/79-year-old-bird-watcher-takes-down-oregon-militant-with-old-high-school-wrestling-move/

localS

“We’re hoping this is an isolated incident and we’re asking the elderly not to knock any more militants on their ass,” said the grinning FBI agent.

that is a 'satirical' website, isn't it?

god damn it, yes I think so. sorry.

here's some better links that are real:

http://usuncut.com/news/oregon-militia-descends-into-fist-fights-chaos/

http://www.hcn.org/articles/im-not-so-different-from-the-bundys-heres-what-id-like-to-say-to-them

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/01/oregon-malheur-standoff-militia-ammon-cliven-bundy/

and this one, which illustrates the frustration of the locals:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/pissed-as-hell-rancher-blows-up-at-bundy-militants-im-not-going-let-some-other-people-be-my-face/

Militants say they'll reveal exit plan Friday

Cue post of finale to The Wild Bunch

If they say anything they haven't already said, I'd be surprised. This is more likely to be just another excuse for grandstanding in front of the media.

sick of these idiots. let them have the outpost, keep the roads blocked and the power & water off and just wait it out. eventually they'll exit the standoff and enter custody.

hope to some day see a play based on this with some brokeback mountain types cast