Obamacare / Affordable Care Act : classic or dud?

well, everyone in Cokie's beauty parlor thinks Obama is a cold man and that Michelle should stop attacking Georgetown's fat kids.

lolz. I hear ya.

But 27,000 people signed up for Obamacare isn't quieting anyone down.

no one is ever going to quiet down, because no one knows the exact number that would constitute 100%. the number of people who could benefit from using Healthcare.gov to purchase new insurance is a relatively small percentage of the U.S. population, because so many others are already covered by their employer or by medicare/medicaid, or they live in a state where the healthcare.gov platform isn't being used because the state decided to exert the option to build its own exchange.

anyway, no one knows what the exact figure is that would constitute "success", although there are the administration's own stated goals, i suppose.

so yeah, when 489,000 people have signed up using healthcare.gov will people shut up? no, they won't, because no one knows what the fuck they're talking about in the first place

Isn't the number of uncovered citizens projected to be at 9million or more even with Obamacare at full implementation?

also, won't the real test come in 2014 when employer plans are held to the fire?

Looks like Politico got it right, Alfred.

NYTimes: Democrats Threaten to Abandon Obama on Health Provision

In a closed-door meeting Wednesday of House Democrats and White House officials, tensions flared as several lawmakers upbraided the administration, saying that the president had put Democrats in a tough political position by wrongly promising consumers that they could keep their existing health care plans. In fact, hundreds of thousands of Americans have received cancellation notices from their insurers because their health care coverage does not meet the minimum standards dictated by the new law.

The overall message of the meeting, said several attendees, was that the White House and the House Democratic leadership have until Friday to come up with a satisfactory alternative, or House Democrats may be forced to support Mr. Upton’s bill, which already has two Democratic co-sponsors: Representatives John Barrow of Georgia and Mike McIntyre of North Carolina, who represent more conservative districts.

It's not a matter of getting it right -- Tiger Beat on the Potomac, as Charles Pierce on the Potomac is the Beltway hack's bible -- it's a matter of who gives a shit, especially with unnamed sources.

whoa: I meant "as Charles Pierce calls it, is the Beltway hack's bible

yes it's a hack gossip rag but shooting the messenger kind of sidesteps the issue.

Are you questioning the gray lady's unnamed sources right now?

And really, if you think no one gives a shit about Democrats throwing out threats to the President about his signature achievement--or that a closed door meeting that is being completely misreported, then I guess we disagree.

if the Dems yield and allow people to keep existing insurance plans, the ACA fails. There's no shading it. And Dems will be destroyed in 2014.

Dems do best when they stop mewling and stop acting like "me too!" crypto-Republicans.

Basically, they fucked this roll-out up so badly that all bets are off in terms of support. Those numbers yesterday were disheartening, not just because they were even worse than expected, but because they show how far this still has to go, how much work they have to do on the fucking website weeks after it debuted, which is a travesty. The unintended consequence of all that Tea Party tomfoolery is that the timing was such that the gov was basically forced to go live rather than delay the ACA even a day. Which was the right thing to do, but still, surely dozens of people knew what kind of mess to expect when it launched and just basically watched as it went kablooey.

And I still think the average American has no idea about the very basic ins and outs of the ACA, which is strictly a communication problem, no tech necessary.

I think the average American has no idea about the ins and outs of most government services unless they actually need them. Easy to point to the waste in the safety net unless you rely on it. Easy to get off on the political shit for a function you've never even had to deal with on any level--that goes for the people who think it's just and those who think it's not.

I fully expected a clusterfuck of this magnitude but not because I think the Obamas are incompetent. Obamacare is a very complicated solution to a very complicated problem and thus, very difficult to implement on every level. It's important to hold these guys' feet to the raging fire and demand transparency, but I think that ACA is gonna survive and even expand over the years.

the Obamas

What does this even mean?

the Obama admin

I think the average American has no idea about the ins and outs of most government services unless they actually need them.

Probably true enough. But the fact that the whole point of the ACA is that it is something every American needs to get, or at least be aware of, makes the shoddy communication that much more glaring. Maybe I've missed these press conferences (probably), but massive tech screw up and Obama's "keep what you have" gaffe aside, the administration might have done a better job explaining the lack of cooperation among certain states, the confusion fostered by anti-ACA folks, basically, better explain the aforementioned ins and outs of the ACA in simple, easy to understand terms. Which maybe the website does! But, well, you know ... the website.

Like, the ACA is something I don't have to deal with right now. So I was surprised to hear that enrollment entailed making the first payment months in advance, before service even began. If I were on a budget, like I imagine many of the folks most in need of the ACA, I'd be wary of shelling out cash in advance of a scheme whose entire reputation is prematurely in shambles. Granted, a lot of this will work itself out when slacker healthy young folks start buying in, or those signing up actually make their first payment, but that's a lot of time left to pass while people stir and shit in various pots.

This whole situation is shameful and the way Democrats are eagerly lining up to gut ACA is some of the worst cowardice I've seen from these people. I'm extremely pessimistic that ACA is going to remain in any kind of functional state for very long.

LOL "functional." It's off to a great start!

Eh, it'll all work out in the end. Just depressing to see such a major achievement fucked up so easily. I hate that lizard Issa, but he was sort of OTM comparing the roll-out to a rocket that blows up on the launch pad. But eventually, we'll get our Tang.

true, it is barely functioning now. My fear is that the Dems are ready to completely neuter it, causing a situation where it will never be any better even if the website improves.

Medicaid has signed up 444,000 people in 10 states in the six weeks since open enrollment began.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/medicaid-health-overhauls-early-success-story-20859281

Kentucky, which built its own marketplace, signed up more people (5,586) than Texas (2,991), which relied on HealthCare.gov, even though it has a fraction of the latter's population. California has enrolled more people (35,364) on its own than the 36 HealthCare.gov states combined.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/here-s-where-people-have-signed-up-for-obamacare

anyone know what massachusetts enrollment looked like two and a half months into romneycare?

Less than 200 people, according to Chris Hayes last night. Guess what triggered massive enrollment by the young? Fear of penalties.

and deadlines. Deadlines work.

Maybe in this case it's good that the young people are waiting. If iPhones all crashed non-stop their first few weeks, people would wait a few months for them, too.

just to make sure i'm right on this: even if dems cave on this and pass legislation to let people keep their existing (shitty) insurance, obama still has to sign it, right? and he can veto, right?

Yes.

i guess i'll worry about one thing at a time, but then at least there will be a last opportunity for him to prevent a terrible calamity if a shitty bill comes his way.

hopefully he'll keep his spine.

ohhh, et tu?

heh. well, it's nothing to count on, that's for sure. but at least he'll have the opportunity.

His spine is IMMATERIAL. People surrender their spine, if any, before they raise a billion dollars to be Executive Puppet.

He may or may not veto. If both parties are intent on gutting the law, then a veto can be overridden.

and then we revolt.

Dems do best when they stop mewling and stop acting like "me too!" crypto-Republicans.

but that's what they aaaaaare, Blanche

thanks, Sofia.

tsk tsk, Baby Jane, not GG

Morbsbait, not trollbait

RIP

In a bid to quell a growing political crisis, the Obama administration announced Thursday that it will give health insurers new flexibility to renew existing individual health insurance policies that do not comply with the Affordable Care Act.

...The new guidance would allow insurance companies to "offer the option" of renewing non-Obamacare compliant plans to their existing customers, according to senior White House officials. The policies could be renewed for an additional year at any time through 2014. According to the White House, non-compliant plans could currently only be renewed before Dec. 31, 2013.

The administration will be "suspending enforcement of market provisions" for those existing plans, the officials said. Several million individual health insurance policy holders were expected to have their existing plans canceled because they didn't meet the minimum coverage requirements of Obamacare.

"The bottom line, insurers can extend current plans that would otherwise be canceled into 2014 and Americans whose plans had been canceled can choose to reenroll in the same kind of plan," Obama said in a statement announcing the change.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/here-s-how-the-white-house-wants-to-fix-obamacare

wow, so, uh, yeah

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST I HATE THIS COUNTRY

oof. well, if it's any consolation, i (and others) will still be able to get an affordable plan soon. did some more research into my available plans and it's a lot better than I originally thought, with federal subsidies included. of course, this is because I'm both ineligible for medicaid and my employer offers no insurance. so, i'm still glad this law has some effect, for now

Despite the president’s reversal, Speaker John A. Boehner said Thursday that he intended to push ahead with a House vote Friday on a measure that would allow consumers to keep their canceled plans without penalty and allow others to sign up for them. Mr. Boehner said he was skeptical of the president’s proposal and that the new law needed to be overturned.

“The only way to fully protect the American people is to scrap this law once and for all,” Mr. Boehner told reporters.

Representative Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House, said her members were clamoring for a fix on top of what the president was offering. Many of them, she said, were those who fought hard for the law’s passage and want to see it saved.

“Nobody is as unhappy as I am,” she said, adding, “Maybe the president of the United States.”

“But the fact is we’re all of the same mind in our caucus,” she added. “We have to have a fix.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/15/us/politics/obama-to-offer-health-care-fix-to-keep-plans-democrat-says.html?hp&_r=0

spoiler alert

at the end of 2014, there will once again be millions of people - many of them young and healthy - who receive letters informing them that their terrible insurance is being canceled, and they will need to find better insurance.

I assume the insurance companies will try to find a way to lock people into these super turd policies for as long as they possibly can now that they have an opportunity.

At least it's better than the Senate bill and the way worse Upton house bill

The administration's guidance does not allow insurers to sell non-compliant plans to new customers. In addition, insurers must provide two pieces of information to their customers: what benefits these non-compliant plans do not offer and what options the health reform law, such as the insurance marketplaces and financial assistance, makes available to them.

Unlike a proposal from some Senate Democrats, the White House's plan would not require insurers to continue offering non-compliant coverage. The officials said it would be at the "discretion of insurers." As for people whose plans have already been canceled, they said insurers "would have the ability to reach back out to these individuals."

and as fucking usual you make what looks like a concession to the right and they just move the posts.

how about just enrolling people whose "insurance" has been "cancelled" straight into medicare or VA insurance, and saying "fuck you" to the republicans?

Digby ain't freakin' 'out, surprisingly:

Honestly, I understand why people are freaking out. You get one of these letters, as I have, and the numbers are scary. Unless you understand this new system you're going to be unnerved to say the least --- especially if you can't get the information you need from the web-site to see what the new plans are going to cost. But in my view, most people will eventually figure out what they need to do simply because the insurance bill is such a big one, even if you only have to use it for a short time.

I don't happen to think that the President's proposal to allow insurance companies to extend the shit plans for a year is the end of the world. They already "grandfathered" shit plans from before 2010 so it's not a huge deal to do the same thing for the bad plans the insurance companies wrote between then and now. Most people aren't going to keep paying for crappy coverage once they see they can do better. The problem now is that they have no way of seeing that and don't have a clear understanding of how the plan works. With a little time, they will be able to do that.

And keep in mind that nearly 50% of the people who are buying insurance on the private market are only doing it temporarily anyway. When new people come into the market they will simply go to the (hopefully working) exchange website and buy new policies without any of these concerns about these cancellations.