body positivity!!

continued from this old thread:

the right to be fat?

please, no body shaming or bullshit. don't be a dick. this is a positive thread.

i don't have any particulars to add, but just generally want to throw in my two cents that this is a wonderful thread idea and i hope it lives a long and successful life.

hell yeah, jvc otm

and much thanks to h2

on the chance that carl agatha looks at this thread, i want to thank her for her righteous post in that other thread, which i hope drops off the face of site new answers forever.

in orbit's posts in that thread about learning to look at other people's bodies kindly is also key imo.

speaking of threads long gone, you should copy over your last long post, homosexual ii. would be a great way to start things off.

Seconded. That post was OTMFM.

i liked the part in there about ignoring everything the media says and wearing what you want and looking how you want and feeling good. i've come around to genuinely liking my body now that i think of it as my personal body container -- i'm stuck inside this thing forever (as long as my brain holds out) so i might as well feel good about it. i don't like talking about it, or hearing other people talk about it or having people comment on it or w/e -- it's just this thing that carries me around, it does a pretty good job, there's not much else to say. i like to put clothes on it, but i strongly don't like people making stealth comments about my body under the guise of comments about my clothes.

that was a good post. i'll let her repost it though.

Here ya go!!

I want to start a new thread about body positivity and fat experiences that have nothing to do with dieting, eating, the weight loss industry, etc - because I view those things as harmful. The rest of the world talks about that enough, and it gets tiring.

The way I see it is, a fat person shouldn't have to share their story just in order to not be treated as a moral failure. I could tell people about all the times I TRIED TO BE 'GOOD' and how I have bad genes and etc and the point is I shouldn't have to. You can't visually estimate my health with a single glance. Also, being found as attractive or as a sex object isn't a solve. I shudder when I hear things like "curves in the right places" or "more pushin' for the cushin'" because is that supposed to make everything all better?

I am a fat woman, I eat a LOT, not going to lie, and I love the way I look - TRULY. I wear whatever I want, and I don't care if anyone decides to fatcall me. I have women come up to me all the time and tell me I am beautiful, and those compliments are appreciated, and I hear from women even half my size: "I wish I had your confidence." I can't tell you exactly how I got there, but most of it was rejecting the modern attitude about health and size and changing how I looked at beauty. Because really, it was never about my health before, I mostly felt I didn't deserve to even be seen because I felt disgusting and unwanted due to how film, television, men, and the fashion industry treated me.

No one has to prove they're healthy to you just to not be judged. It's no one's obligation to be healthy. I shudder when I hear fat people try to prove their case for how healthy they really are. It shouldn't matter. Just don't be a dick. You don't know anyone's story. Don't treat ANYONE as though you know their story based on your own tiny set of experiences. Don't cite medical journals, because you look like a dick. 'Calories in/calories out - it's simple!" is not helpful.

this is a gripe:

It'd be nice if from now on in OkCupid messages, guys could refrain from mentioning my "curves" in an opening message. It's really gross.

Honest question: do any average/slim people get messages saying "I really like your slim build," and the like?

perhaps I should have posted that in the OkCupid thread!

What up.

horseshoe, you are the wind beneath my (bingo) wings.

yaaaay!!

Just want to thank homoII, carlA, in orbit, LL, et. al for being consistently awesome rocks of body positivity. Whenever I have moments of weakness and start thinking I ought to lose 10 pounds, I think of ya'll and realize that is stinkin' thinkin', I am perfectly fine just the way I am.

I was very heartened by CarlA and gbx and others a while back when I was wavering between a Weight Watchers subscription and buying new (larger) pants and everyone was like "fuck a WW, get new pants." I got new pants. They are a bigger size than I ever imagined I would wear back when I was an anorexic size 4 and miserable. Now I am size 10 and happy as a clam. Fuck a weight, happy is attractive as all hell.

i have no need for ok cupid but people say/have said that to me (mostly women) and it's totally embarrassing. it's true that i'm a small person, but i don't see why it should be a topic of conversation. mostly i think people's bodies and their shapes are kind of off limits as far as conversational topics go.

that was xp to HII's q

mostly i think people's bodies and their shapes are kind of off limits as far as conversational topics go.

― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Monday, July 8, 2013 12:01 PM (45 seconds ago)

otm. i'm always taken aback when someone suddenly decides that this would be a great thing to mention/discuss. happens pretty rarely though, and it's usually (somewhat) passive hostility.

Also:

No one has to prove they're healthy to you just to not be judged. It's no one's obligation to be healthy. I shudder when I hear fat people try to prove their case for how healthy they really are. It shouldn't matter.

Yeah, seriously. I did that a little in my flip-out post, and I did read a couple of follow ups including one where somebody was like, "Why are people giving healthy hot fatties a hard time!" and was like... come on. My post was intended in part as a refutation of the "EAT LESS MOVE MORE, DUH" crowd but truly. Nobody owes their health to anybody. Also being considered fuckable is not the entry point for not being treated like shit because of your size.

i'm in pretty good shape by my own lifetime experience and by contemporary standards, and i don't have much body positivity for myself at all, so i'll be reading this with much appreciation.

I like this new home, it feels almost as good as my elastic-waisted yoga pants that I wear at home 22 hours a day! No seriously, I've been to the beach 2 days in a row and if you ever want to see every kind of body ever invented, go to a New York City beach. They're all there. It's refreshing.

Yesterday my body put on a bathing suit, rode a bike, carried it up and down some stairs, and swam around choppy water perfectly comfortably for hours. It even got a little bit of a tansunburn. Thanks, body!

In return for its dedicated and loyal service, I fed my body beer. It's just a little arrangement we have.

yeah i remember around the time i was having a conversion experience to liking my body, the beach helped a lot.

Totally. When we first moved to the beach I found it very weird to be wearing v. little clothing all the time, and seeing everyone else in v. little clothing. Now I walk around nekkid half the time and don't give a fuck, it is hot!

on the looking kindly on others' bodies thing, here are some posts i made in the no boys allowed thread a while back. i didn't want to post other people's stuff without permission, but it was a discussion about body positivity, in a way:

i actually have a lot of hokey things i do to make myself feel better about this stuff, like look at other women's bodies and think nice thigns about them.

― horseshoe, Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:47 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like, a range of body types i mean

― horseshoe, Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:48 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that sounds weird, but when i was at my worst about this stuff i was ridiculously punishing of my own body and other womens unless they fit a ridiculously narrow (in every sense) archetype. i literally had crazy eyes. it's better now.

― horseshoe, Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:48 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like, this will sound trivial but i had the experience after i stopped being so crazy of going back and seeing movies that i had watched in that crazy frame of mind and thinking, how could i have thought this incredibly thin actress was fat? seriously that intense punishing gaze is some funhouse mirror shit.

― horseshoe, Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:57 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You (modestly?) left it out but I liked the part where you wondered if all that time you were just hungry.

haha i was worried it sounded glib! but i was really hungry, guys!

xp ^ I do that "think a nice thing about women you see" exercise a lot. I think that was a suggestion from K@t3 H@rd1ng that you sent me long ago, horseshoe? It's fucking exhausting (I live in a big city and see a LOT of women so sometimes it's like, "Nice hair nice bag ummm good posture) but really helpful when I find myself lapsing into a patterns of self-loathing or just general body snarking.

The Story of My Weight, by Aimless

I've had it easier than most. When I was a little kid my mom took me to the doctor and said, he seems so skinny, is there something wrong with him? The doctor asked, does he act healthy? Yes. Then there's nothing wrong with him. My mom took this to heart. I happily forgot all about it. I was healthy!

In adolescence I hated being so skinny. Skinny was not sexy. Skinny was not strong or dangerous. Real he-men were muscly and had big chests with chest hair. At least I knew I was healthy. It didn't help much, though. It didn't seem like much of a prize.

In early adulthood I was still skinny and I began to realize that this was ok. I was even lucky in a way, because at least I was less likely to die of heart disease, which seemed to be a big problem for older men.

In middle adulthood I quit smoking and gained some weight. No big deal. I'd been too skinny anyway. My daughter was born with a zillion medical problems and I was stressed out and gained weight. First I was her caregiver, then I had a desk job. I gained more weight. I'd look in the mirror and see my face getting softer and more shapeless, but what really bothered me wasn't that I wasn't sexy anymore. I knew my health was getting to be a mess. I looked a mess. The excess weight was just a minor part of the whole out-of-jointness of my life.

In late middle age I finally got my family life in better shape. I quit my job for a while and set out to fix my life as much as I could. I drank less. I hiked as much as I could. I backpacked. I walked every day. I lost weight. I started feeling healthier again. I was relieved, not because I thought I looked sexier, but because I worried less about dying young of heart disease. I feel better. My body is nearer to the shape it wants to be.

I still have very skinny arms and legs. The middle not so much. That's fine. I'm healthy!

yeah, k@t3 h4rd1ng changed my life in this way, basically.

xp

One time when I was very thin due to my Amazing Dieting Success, I remember telling Je55e that I got really angry at fat people because I'm doing all this work and sacrificing so much free time and relaxation to be thin so why the hell aren't they doing the same thing?

It's a totally gross thing to say, but it certainly explains a certain mentality that I encounter a lot and it gives me some compassion, even, for people who take up "the fight against obesity" as their life's crusade.

That was to address horseshoe's comment wondering if she was just hungry all the time. Part of my fat hate of old was 100% because I was hungry all the time.

Kind of like prudery gets worse among people who aren't getting any sex.

I've slowly grown more positive about my body. Running in different types has had a big effect on it. I used to would not run in anything less that just above the knee shorts. Not practical in the heat and humidity of summer. Now my favorite shorts are these tiny ones with a 3.5" inseam. Same thing with tops, I really like singlets now instead of just short sleeve shirts. I blend right in on the lakefront path with everyone else wearing as little as possible to be comfortable. Running by bro bars to get to the lakefront can be challenging at times, but really, I don't care what drunk people yell at me.

Same thing in winter, I used to not wear tights without having shorts over them. It was annoying to have to wrangle so many clothes just to go running, so I went with just the tights and it ended up being NBD.

It didn't magically make me love everything about my body but my crazy eye was KOed when I stopped living in neighborhoods where everyone else was young, homogenous, and generally had the same anxieties re weight as I did. It has flipped my world to be around happy, sexy, normal, unskinny women who have active romantic lives and are desired by others. It's good to be reminded that if I never find love at least it won't be because of my body.

xpost, different types of weather

re: your heart disease comments, Aimless - just one scholarly article about "the obesity paradox" - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3538467/ (google for many more).

Basically, it is doctor's scratching their heads because they just know that being fat causes heart disease, but fat people have lower mortality rates from heart disease than thin people do.

Women of all ages, I should say. The one/s who have survived things, like the death of their children or their own breast cancer or any number of things, sure they're like "I keep that dress in case I can ever fit into it again" but it's not stopping them from being grateful to be alive, or from having younger boyfriends, or eating a doughnut, or anything else they want. I feel like this outlook had just never been modeled for me! It's great.

I do that "think a nice thing about women you see" exercise a lot. I think that was a suggestion from K@t3 H@rd1ng... It's fucking exhausting ... but really helpful when I find myself lapsing into a patterns of self-loathing or just general body snarking.

― carl agatha, Monday, July 8, 2013 12:46 PM (1 minute ago)

sounds like good advice, tbh. there was some related discussion in the previous thread, and i've been thinking about it since, the idea that one might learn self-acceptance by consciously working to accept others. worth a shot, though i haven't yet had much opportunity to try it out (most everyone i work with and live near is a good deal thinner and more active than I).

anyway, i'm a bit saddened by some of the turns the discussion has taken today, but no complaints. i can't force people to engage w/ conversations they'd rather avoid, and dwelling on feelings of negativity and despair is never agl.

I just try to listen to what my body says it wants me to do. It's smarter about this stuff than my brain is. All I know is that it feels healthier now than it did before. My body was born skinny and it prefers that way to be. Maybe I'll still die of a heart attack. I feel ok atm and that's as well as I know how to gauge things. I'll die one way or another anyway.

I'm not a woman, so I have no clue just how women feel when they feel healthy. I do know the whole "am I attractive" rigmarole is tremendously messed up in this society and it's easier for a skinny man to get over it than for a zaftig woman.

yeah i remember around the time i was having a conversion experience to liking my body, the beach helped a lot.

That's part of the reason I've been wanting to go to the beach -- I feel like it will give me the energy I need to feel positive about myself and my body. Also it's an excuse to be outside & not feel like I have to cover up or be worried about whatever clothes I might be wearing otherwise. I'm not "fat" but my weight fluctuates a lot because of my illness; I haven't been able to find any clothes that I feel good in yet. I always feel sick and I feel like I look sick too. If I could get at least a day of sunlight without all the stress I'd feel so much better.

It's gonna take me a while to be able to say with 100% honesty that I like the person I see when I look in the mirror. That might sound dumb, idk. It's not even mostly the way I look that bothers me, it's also the way I think & act & feel. I know I'm not an ugly person but I have a lot of social anxiety baggage that's gonna take time to work through. (Sorry for being 25 itt.)

^ feeling this, though i'm a long way from even contemplating a trip to the beach

lol, what was i just saying?

I specif noticed multiple women with post-childbirth stomachs wearing bikinis yesterday, I found that very cheering.

Contendo, I usually do the "think a nice thing" on my way to and from work since I commute via public transit and see lots and lots of people that way. I don't know where you live but pretty much any place where there are lots of people (mall? I don't know) is good, especially if there are diverse bodies around you. If I were limited to doing that where I work now, I'd have similar problems. Also for me it works better when I think about strangers because then I don't overthink my mental compliments or like, skip someone because I'm annoyed at her for not responding quickly to the email I sent her last week or whatever.

I don't really identify with the thinking negative thoughts about others that you guys are talking about -- all of my negative feelings have been directed solely at myself. Mostly because I felt invisible. I still feel invisible, but now I embrace it and use it to my advantage.

A shallow but helpful exercise for me: instead of thinking about changing my body, I focus on my hair.

Or lipstick.

i feel like i'm meant to be fat. my parents and all my siblings are fat. i love eating. i love drinking beers. every time i have 2+ beers i put on a noticeable chunk. i have a belly pouch that never goes away.

i hate feeling fat tbh. i'm going to have to confront some other issues to be ok with my body as-is. if i did i think it could be very liberating, but i'm wishy-washy when it comes to actually letting go of... not wanting to be fat. i'll also be watching this thread with interest and appreciate hearing about other experiences and paths to greater acceptance, awareness, non-neurotic behavior, etc.

I felt p alarmed the first time I broke the ten yearish period of DIY haircuts but I warmed to it. have had the most success getting my hair cut by the newest&cheapest person in a swanky place, much better than going to a decent place & cost about the same

I finally feel some positivity towards my body and want to post in this thread now. Over the past two months I have drastically reduced my (formerly insane) sugar intake, and I feel so so awesome. Some days, the only refined sugar I have in an entire day is the two sugars I take in my coffee. This is a gigantic change, and thus a really important health step for me. My weight hasn't changed as far as I know, but I am trying not to focus on outward things. My terrible diet has been a source of a lot of anxiety for me, so to finally make a concrete, lasting change is a big deal. Go moderation!

yall, my legs are strong as F
lupus aint mean shit to them

tell me your secrets!

its probably just yoga and walking a lot!

here's a new wrinkle (lol) in the body posi discussion

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119581/against-sedation-and-general-anesthesia-time-take-back-our-bodies

And, I’d add, the loss of the wonder of self-discovery. You are only this one body, it’s all you are and ever will be; it won’t be there forever; and why not become familiar with it, when science gives the chance? I began refusing sedation out of a work ethic; I continued through fascination.

ok, barf, no

why does that appall me so deeply

i don't know why people have to evangelize about stuff like this but i felt it was relevant

ok, barf, no

Oh man, I'd love to see my appendix but I'm into medical stuff and everything behind OBOS etc. Also, I have totally done the spectrum thing and looked at my cervix.

it's not even that i think it's gross; i think it'd be marginally cool but mostly boring and physically uncomfortable. they usually give me photos anyway.

What are the countervailing benefits of unconsciousness?

Well, if you have a casual interest in human cognition, coming out of twilight sleep is pretty interesting. It's pretty amazing to be sitting there having a conversation with someone and all of a sudden being "back" as if a memory needle had stopped skipping.

I loooove twilight sleep, I have to get a colonoscopy every year bc I have crohns and it's basically my annual groovy drug experience

i like the tingly feeling but it also feels like a sneak preview of death which makes me a lil uneasy

Eh, I feel like that about going to sleep half the time anyway

i have been thinking a lot about how yoga helps me feel good about my body/self and i would like to propose a moratorium on the phrase "yoga bitch" -- just bc someone enjoys yoga, that person is not a bitch. if someone bitchily flaunts his/her yoga-ing, it's not because of the yoga, it's because that person is bitchy fundamentally. i dunno, it makes me feel bad when i think that people would call me that; doing yoga alone in my basement can't possibly be a bitchy activity.

I have never heard that phrase
it's rotten!

One time I ran into this toned trapeze yoga bitch at the co-op & she was all "oh! You don't look well!" I think what I hated about it more than her saying I looked like shit was the condescension, like I'm some baby who can't take care of myself & I need her fucking vedic tips or whatever.

― emilys., Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:46 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lol @ toned yoga bitch

― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:50 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

like, i loled, but then i thought about it for a year

that is from this thread btw

you reminded me of this piece: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/oct/11/fat-girls-do-yoga-too

Yoga isn't strictly exercise (although you can take that element from it) but I mean Iyengar (if you look at some footage) wasn't really skinny or anything, and you can be fat and do yoga because its about aligning your body in a certain and using the breath to ease your body.

I can't speak for other types like Bikram or hot yoga. It was never appealing, and don't sound like yoga to me.

I live in the desert so any time I do exercise outside I think of it as 'bikram' form.
I assumed 'yoga bitch' was some phrase like 'basic bitch' I'd just never heard.

N-e-way on the body pozi front I have been playing basketball. I was way delayed in my gross motor skills (to the point where they talked about holding me back every year for my first few years of school). I spent most of elementary getting a lot of occupational therapy. I guess I finally caught up to 'average person' levels of skill, because I have been playing a lot of basketball lately and can actually throw, catch, pass, etc. Though it really hits a lot of musskels I haven't been using and I am sore all the time. It feels AWESOME to do a competent job at it, though!

fwiw playing basketball

Kim Gordon ‏@KimletGordon 8h8 hours ago

Yoga is bumming me out

:-(

yoga for me has almost always been a private practice i do at home. there was a one-year period when i was going to a studio almost everyday doing mysore-style ashtanga (which is a self-led practice anyways) or iyengar. iyengar imo is really the best school of yoga and the most accessible to all body types. ashtanga claims to be accessible to everyone (you just modify the series to what you can do) but ime it really seemed most appealing to people with really athletic physiques (i just happened to be a super skinny flexible dude that found it somewhat doable, i've never been athletic). i support people going to studios and my wife teaches yoga (mostly prenatal) but i really prefer doing it at home at my own pace.

btw i feel like i have come a super long way in feeling positive about my body. growing up as the only hispanic kid in a school and neighborhood full of blondish white irish german "all-american" kids can fuck with you. there was ONE other kid in my class with black hair, he was filipino (we were tight). it was fucked. in the all-male high school i went to, which was a little more diverse, was still so many hairless white athletic bodies and i was super skinny and hairy as fuck. i hated it back then. i did for a while. i finally started making peace with my body about five years ago or so and i'm feeling pretty positive about it these days. i love being hairy. this is totally an anti-hair culture right now for both men and obviously and especially women and it is such bullshit. fuck that noise. i'm hairy and idgaf.

I have been practising Iyengar for nearly a year and you need correction from a good instructor. The only way to learn. In every class at least something will click. Plus doing it with others is interesting, you get to share in the struggles people face.

But yes eventually a good home practice will be incorporated.

I was diagnosed with stress-related IBS a couple weeks ago and my main symptom is bloating. Severe I look 15 pounds heavier or 6 mo pregnant bloating. I've also been working with a nutritionist on body positivity and mending my relationship with food but it's been super hard to deal with while walking around feeling like a stuffed balloon. I want to cry.

I went through that when I quit smoking. Digestive mayhem. I ended up drinking Ginger tea and eating yoghurt everyday. Not sure if it was that or if my body has simply readjusted on it's own but I'm much better. My acid reflux is gone too.

I look 15 pounds heavier or 6 mo pregnant bloating.

Girl, this is my life. I feel this. Some days I go without eating for long stretches just to get things emptied out and feel flat and not have any discomfort--it's not great but when I often don't know exactly what will set me off, it's just one little thing I can do. The last couple of days it appears a few mouthfuls of APPLE have been enough to make me one of http://www.compupawn.com/Newsletters/images/CompuPawn-beach-ball.jpg

:( it's the worst!!!!

Oh no you too? I'm so sorry. It's so uncomfortable!!! I don't think mine is food related though and if it is I haven't found any correlations. I tend to have a flare the day after I'm really stressed out about something and then lasts for about three days. By last night I felt like if someone poked me in the stomach with a pin I'd fly away like a balloon. Even though I haven't made any direct food connections yet I'm scared to eat! I hardly ate at all yesterday because I was afraid it would just add to the bloating which is also bad because part of what I'm doing with the nutritionist is all about not restricting my eating in any way. The whole thing sucks.

Ime I just have to be ABSOLUTELY RIGID about cutting out certain foods. Even if "whey" is the second to last ingredient, even if you can't even see the cream in the sauce, even if I'm hungry, or someone nice made it. Apple pie has long been one of my favorite foods and when I stopped eating wheat, I was v v happy when I worked out a gluten-free pie crust dealie. Now I can't have the apples in it either. It is suck, as my friend from Venezuela would say.

I SORRY, THRAED. FOOD SPECIFICITY IS SO BORING. I hate that my body makes me be this way.

I HATE IT TOO! But it's hard to be body pos when your body is doing things that make it not the normal shape I guess is what I was trying to say.

I have that problem too because of Crohn's. It's one of the reasons I've cut back on drinking :/

I totally understand. You're not alone! xp Or you either!

Me too because of crohns. I feel all u pain on this. With me it's not exactly bloating but more like these unbearable pockets of air that can only be wheedled out one at a time with great strain and stress.

The yoga bitch quote reminds me, how is Emilys these days? She used to post on depression thread and I don't think I've seen her on ilx in a while

So I'm still doing a lot of work on being body posi and it's been great though I still struggle as it's a journey. Anyway, my nutritionist showed me this today and it's pretty awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H89QQfXtc-k

that's good

I was just thinking about this thread today!! I have had some disconcertingly positive experiences w/ my body lately and it is leaving me confused but also nice-feeling. Bodies are really quite wonderful things.

Stevie yr fb pic I last saw was idk topless dungarees or s/t and u looked great

ah thank you!! I appreciate that. I made it my profile pic on "the apps" and I have been getting nonstop attention and it is kind of alarming but also kind of cool.

I've spent today working through chapter 2 in "The Body Image Workbook". I determined to beat this voice in my head. I've lived enough of my life worrying about my appearance and what other people think of it. Too much. Yes, I'm totally faking it until I make it in terms of this stuff at this point but hopefully it'll help.

well just be glad yr not leg disabled I spose

I've lost a cpl pounds and am in better shape than I've been in a while lately, and still it's hard to be body posi because it's impossible not to notice how much better the world treats me when I am thinner (nb. never been 'thin') and losing/keeping weight off is so draining 😥. Hard to just not worry about it and say 'well, fuck having noticeably more opportunities open to me at all times'. And it's hard to blame society because I'm just as judgemental as anyone out there. Reading this thread helps sometimes tho. Good luck y'all.

Have consistently done an ab workout with one of my best friends for the last 16 days. For a while I really, really was struggling cos my core is weak but I'm starting to be able to ratchet up the intensity. I've dropped five pounds, but it's less about that and getting in shape and feeling better about myself.

It's helping with so many things and I've never had an accountability partner so I may actually see this out.

:)

That's great to hear. As I've heard someone say, it never gets easy, but it does get easier, and results come faster than you might expect.

i am fatter and hotter than ever