defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

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ugh, the worst, right? anyway, i just really wanted to share this lustrous takedown of him from some guy's blog i don't know:
http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.il/2013/05/drooling-self-love-dime-store-third.html

One will search Greenwald’s writing for coherence in vain because, although he espouses moral relativism when it suits his agenda, as we’ve just seen, he’ll vehemently disown it with his very next breath. His is not a thoughtful, principled commitment to a philosophy he’s prepared to defend or apply consistently. Rather, his geopolitical outlook might be best described as a half-understood kind of dime-store Third Worldism; a gruesome combination of a thoroughgoing Western masochism with an ostensible compassion for the wretched of the earth that masks the same racist condescension and contempt typified by the worst kind of colonialist paternalism.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:32 (six years ago) link

hes cooler than you

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:35 (six years ago) link

isms in my opinion aren't good

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:36 (six years ago) link

it was funny when the exile would troll him by only referring to him as "glenn greenwald of the libertarian cato institute"

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (six years ago) link

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OoUEP8atZl4/UY8Z5RFJ5mI/AAAAAAAAALg/ftL1Q9ZSCTc/s1600/greenwald.jpg

he looks like an older mark zuckerberg here

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (six years ago) link

Principled, consistent, systematic political philosophers do not become pundits. Greenwald's inconsistencies merely validate his membership in that group. Apart from that shocking accusation, all the rest of the takedown quoted above is pure vilification. iow, it is a less witty version of what Greenwald does for a living. pot calling out the kettle.

Aimless, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:39 (six years ago) link

no no I meant it as a compliment

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (six years ago) link

By calling him the "worst", you are being as simplistic as he sometimes is.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (six years ago) link

I think he is a bad writer but I agree with most of the points he makes.

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:41 (six years ago) link

good thing i'm only making threads on ilx and not opining for a major newspaper xp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (six years ago) link

Mordy does simplistic a lot, with relish

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (six years ago) link

mordy doesnt like glenn-chan because he refuses to kiss israel's feet and lips and buttlips. let's just be real about it

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:43 (six years ago) link

well that's why he's the worst!

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (six years ago) link

Mordy, I've only read the Thatcher article, show me what he wrote that you didn't like?

cardamon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (six years ago) link

Like any pundit he's useful when you need him to prove your point. Explaining how presidential administration quietly or openly chip away at civil liberties is his strength; he lacks the subtlety to explain what makes civil liberties worth preserving and the style that would make him consistently readable. Like all brands, he's taken for granted.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:45 (six years ago) link

^ i agree with this

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:48 (six years ago) link

"thoroughgoing Western masochism" = we hadda kill those people, dammit.

Works well for Israel, too.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:50 (six years ago) link

like most men, he looks vile in cargo shorts

http://www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/GlennGreenwald1.jpg

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:51 (six years ago) link

goddamn his husband

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:52 (six years ago) link

He looks better in cargo shorts than glenn does

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:54 (six years ago) link

goddamn to hell colored flip flops.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:13 (six years ago) link

lol this thread

greenwald is occasionally (ok, more than occasionally) long-winded but he is easily the best political blogger of the last decade.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:18 (six years ago) link

treeship mostly otm

also i think we've gone over this ground p thoroughly in the last 5 years

also that blog you linked to really sucks!

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:25 (six years ago) link

harry's place, LGF, euston manifesto in the blogroll... labor hawks, man, 2004 in effect

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:27 (six years ago) link

mordy didn't you love greenwald until a few years ago

mordy's not an obama stan but i did sort of notice that he lost a lot of fans around 2009 or so, weird

who lost fans, GG, obama or mordy?

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:30 (six years ago) link

i did love greenwald until a few years ago - i remember when i forced myself to unsub from his rss feed. this was when he was still at salon.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:31 (six years ago) link

Hmm. It seems to me that the only reason Greenwald is perplexed by accusations of relativism is that he doesn't understand what the term means. [goes on to define moral relativism]

yes thanks much fucker

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:33 (six years ago) link

anyway he's at his best when he just writes about the law and doesn't try to pundit so much, and once you read like 100 of his columns you pretty much know what he's going to think about everything and he becomes less necessary to read on a daily basis. he's definitely a necessary force for good in the world of political writing. even if i don't need to read him anymore, i wouldn't want a blogosphere without him

have to say some of the clones he's produced are pretty dire, like him otm more often than not but with even less style and just clearly not as smart or well-researched. forget these dudes names atm but it's not important, they're like slate writers or something. also goes without saying his commenters are generally the scum of the earth but i haven't read any of his comments in years either

i used to find his writing very interesting - he'd present new material (especially legal material) that i wasn't familiar with, he'd analyze it very insightfully, etc. now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is. also i think he's doubled down significantly on the wrong side of liberalism. like when he asked recently why Israeli can bomb Syria without condemnation when obv if Syria bombed Israel ppl would be hysterical. obv equivalencies like that are immediately intellectually suspect (um, Assad has been lobbing shit into Israel for months w/out much attention), but also it's just this really facile kind of geopolitical analysis. at some point he traded in what he was good at - legal analysis - for ideological tirades. i think it really destroyed any value he held.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (six years ago) link

lol at that 'lustrous takedown,' which includes gems like this:

Those of us who recognise the universal importance and desirability of the above, have little difficulty in ascribing inferiority to a culture that is - conversely - obscurantist, theocratic, misogynistic, racist and oppressive, such as that of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

dismissing a 'culture' (rather than a government) as 'inferior' sounds pretty racist to me.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (six years ago) link

cultures aren't synonymous w/ races

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (six years ago) link

maybe it's culturist tho!

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (six years ago) link

yeah i mean it's kind of a dickish thing to say no matter how you slice it.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (six years ago) link

nah, some cultures obv suck

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (six years ago) link

i am a big fan of both gg and mordy, i am sad they can't be friends

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (six years ago) link

they can walk in flip flops and shorts together

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (six years ago) link

now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is

eh he inserts enough qualifiers and equivocations to suggest otherwise, but he IS fond of adverbs

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:39 (six years ago) link

feet and lips and buttlips

I love you

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:40 (six years ago) link

i do think GG used to be better than he is now -- he rarely surprises me anymore. i usually skip the pieces where he just complains about cable news. this was one of his better pieces from the last couple years:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/02/obama-civil-liberties-history

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (six years ago) link

let's summarize Mordy's points:

tuchus

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (six years ago) link

i did make fun of mordy's cargo shorts once which i regret

i think JD's point that he's the best political blogger of the past decade (ever?) is pretty tough to argue with; even if you dislike his more recent punditry (something i can sympathize with), his strengths make him on balance pretty invaluable. you can even just choose to remember the good times

Greenwald can only withhold judgement of Iran's dismal human rights record or Syria's campaign of sectarian slaughter by affirming that Persians and Arabs are simply not culturally suited to the liberties and protections derived from Enlightenment thought to which Westerners rightly feel they are entitled. Instead, they must be perceived as childlike, simple and sometimes savage peoples whose cultural proclivities demonstrate a preference for subjugation, violence, injustice and fear over liberty and peace, and who are incapable of understanding egalitarian concepts of human rights due to their uniquely 'Western' character.

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (six years ago) link

maybe the best domestic blogger critic of america but he's so outclassed by like every other geopolitical blogger

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (six years ago) link

the blue and the dim of feet and lips and buttlips
i would spread my lips on those buttlips

i think that's pretty otm. i've felt for a long time like there's a racism of low expectations at play in post-colonialism + cultural relativism xxp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:44 (six years ago) link

like stephen walt is hardly a friend of israel but he's so much more worth reading than greenwald. he actually writes new material and has insights that seem valuable. and he doesn't rant.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (six years ago) link

nah, some cultures obv suck

― Mordy , Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:37 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark

agreed, for example the racist settler state known as Israel

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (six years ago) link

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

― goole, Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:40 PM (3 minutes ago)

ha wait, who's the relativist now?

gg has said on numerous occasions that he focuses on the US because he's a US citizen. seems pretty simple

right??

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 31 July 2019 20:09 (three months ago) link

what/where is this important Brazilian reporting?

rob, Wednesday, 31 July 2019 20:15 (three months ago) link

thanks

rob, Wednesday, 31 July 2019 20:21 (three months ago) link

Little bit of a different story when the authoritarian powered by fake news is in your own (new) backyard, huh Glenn?

― The Ravishing of ROFL Stein (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, July 31, 2019 3:08 PM (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Bolsonaro is like several orders of magnitude more authoritarian than trump. Or at least their system
Allows him to be whereas ours still places some checks on Trump.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 31 July 2019 20:26 (three months ago) link

or more that there's a system that could theoretically check Trump that, regardless of his efforts and bumbling, he can't significantly break down over four, or god forbid, eight years

untuned mass damper (mh), Wednesday, 31 July 2019 20:30 (three months ago) link

Also FYI while I first learned of his recent story through Chapo, i also worked for a year on Lava Jato-related litigation and had already followed the larger story. So it’s not like I think it’s significant because Will M says so.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 31 July 2019 20:32 (three months ago) link

he is literally risking his life to report something that could bring down an actual, literal fascist

And there are no Brazilian journalists reporting on Bolsonaro, which is why The Intercept is the only place one can go to hear about all the terrible shit going on down there. ¡Viva Greenwald!

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 31 July 2019 20:38 (three months ago) link

TheIntercept is good on Brazil, but the idea that this somehow invalidates criticism of Greenwald is nonsensical. It's really not that hard to avoid going on Tucker Carlson.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 31 July 2019 21:56 (three months ago) link

no one..said that

k3vin k., Wednesday, 31 July 2019 22:21 (three months ago) link

"he sucks but also does good/worthwhile work on occasion" is really not that complicated a sentiment to hold in one's mind

Simon H., Wednesday, 31 July 2019 22:36 (three months ago) link

Meaning, I take it, that criticism of him is not petty.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Thursday, 1 August 2019 01:09 (three months ago) link

he misapprehended what shows to appear on and refused to apologize for it

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 August 2019 02:04 (three months ago) link

And there are no Brazilian journalists reporting on Bolsonaro, which is why The Intercept is the only place one can go to hear about all the terrible shit going on down there. ¡Viva Greenwald!

― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, July 31, 2019 3:38 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Actually, the Intercept literally broke the most significant corruption story since Lava Jato itself (and arguably a bigger one), and that story demonstrates that the entire Lava Jato investigation itself was rigged against PT. So it actually literally is true that the Intercept is the only place that one can go to hear about that particular thing which is of enormous significance. But I never actually expect the slightest degree of comprehension or sophistication to show up in your posts so I'm not really surprised by your stupidity here.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 1 August 2019 05:08 (three months ago) link

fwiw, I take back my statement that this renders criticism of him "petty" -- I don't want to argue with anyone's grievances against him. I just think he doesn't deserved to be "cancelled" in light of all of this. But his bravery pales in comparison to those who always dare to have the correct takes on everything.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 1 August 2019 05:10 (three months ago) link

Wonder if he’s sucked Dan Savage’s dick

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Thursday, 1 August 2019 05:46 (three months ago) link

uh

Simon H., Thursday, 1 August 2019 05:53 (three months ago) link

Not positive Glenn Greenwald and Dan Savage are different people actually

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Thursday, 1 August 2019 05:53 (three months ago) link

(To me, however, he has always been unfailingly kind and generous, and has repeatedly used his platform to promote our little left-wing magazine.)

does not disqualify the merit of his documentation nor the sincerity of his opinion obv.

Hunt3r, Friday, 2 August 2019 20:15 (three months ago) link

the essay speaks for itself I think

k3vin k., Friday, 2 August 2019 20:22 (three months ago) link

clearly everyone should be disqualified from ever writing about anyone who has said nice things about them

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 2 August 2019 20:34 (three months ago) link

i meant what i wrote, but rethinkin this, now that trump pointedly compliments those with whom he has korrupt as fuck “relationships,” all compliments are suspect in my world.

tho my unpopularity affords me great license, ‘tis true.

Hunt3r, Friday, 2 August 2019 21:58 (three months ago) link

three months pass...

Veja o momento em que @augustosnunes agride @ggreenwald ao vivo na @JovemPanNews. É um absurdo esse descontrole por parte de Nunes, que usou os filhos do Glenn para atacá-lo por causa de matérias da Vaza Jato pic.twitter.com/aJjODSxaZA

— George Marques (@GeorgMarques) November 7, 2019

anvil, Thursday, 7 November 2019 18:14 (one week ago) link

for context, the old guy is a bolsanaro lackey journalist who recently (jokingly, I think) suggested that since glenn spends all day on twitter and his husband is always away, who is taking care of their children and should a child welfare court get involved. today they appeared on (I guess) a right-wing radio show and glenn confronted him about it, he repeated what he said, glenn called him a coward about 7 times, and then that happened

k3vin k., Thursday, 7 November 2019 18:27 (one week ago) link

would not be surprised if glenn gets killed down there.. and I say that as a critique of brazil, not glenn

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 7 November 2019 19:23 (one week ago) link

yeah, he's fighting the good fight against some of the worst people in the world

ت (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 7 November 2019 19:33 (one week ago) link

um there's a way to do that and like _every_ _fucking_ _thing_ _he_ _does_, it's not convincing. well, i've heard the dogs must fall for it tbh.

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Thursday, 7 November 2019 22:58 (one week ago) link

what a grotesque post lol

difficult listening hour, Thursday, 7 November 2019 23:04 (one week ago) link

xp. you're a shithead

ت (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 7 November 2019 23:06 (one week ago) link

i do appreciate you james, wherever you are

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Thursday, 7 November 2019 23:07 (one week ago) link

gay jewish man and his POC husband, who had a good friend - a trans POC politician - murdered by right-wing activists, is physically attacked by a fascist journalist who had targeted his family.

"this isn't convincing"

ت (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 7 November 2019 23:13 (one week ago) link

fair enough. i was not aware of part two of that statement. (tucker carlson is targeting his allies every day).

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Thursday, 7 November 2019 23:24 (one week ago) link

I think Greenwood is doing important things in his current work, has made a rough path for himself due to his life circumstances, and deserves some credit for calling out the right parties in the past

He’s also kind of an obstinate, opportunistic shithead and has harmed innocent people along the way. He can be both things.

mh, Saturday, 9 November 2019 05:15 (one week ago) link

some of u r gonna die with GG hate on your last breath

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 9 November 2019 05:17 (one week ago) link

will never have hate for GG's boyfriend, he is hot!

Dan S, Saturday, 9 November 2019 05:24 (one week ago) link

(husband)

Dan S, Saturday, 9 November 2019 05:27 (one week ago) link

some of u r gonna die with GG hate on your last breath

Would give solid odds that your last word will be "Hillary" so...

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Saturday, 9 November 2019 11:44 (one week ago) link

i sincerely hope he doesn’t get killed

esempio (crüt), Saturday, 9 November 2019 13:40 (one week ago) link

^^^ Oh yeah, 100%. I mean, the dude's a piece of shit and an idiot who I believe has done more harm than good, but I am firmly anti-people being murdered by a fascist government.

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Saturday, 9 November 2019 14:42 (one week ago) link

trying out "unperson"

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 9 November 2019 14:59 (one week ago) link

how has he done more harm than good? because of russiagate skepticism?

treeship., Saturday, 9 November 2019 15:02 (one week ago) link

made america's killing machine less efficient

esempio (crüt), Saturday, 9 November 2019 15:04 (one week ago) link

Inadvertently helping the Russians in getting Trump elected was a pretty big mistake imo. And kinda hard to make up for. But his Brazilian reporting (which of course is done with others) is very good and could do it.

Frederik B, Saturday, 9 November 2019 16:01 (one week ago) link

you can't "make up for" something by doing something completely different, because people don't have scorecards and there's no afterlife, but "the russians" were such a vanished drop-in-the-bucket factor in what we have done to ourselves i can't imagine how infinitesimally responsible someone who only helped them was

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 9 November 2019 18:40 (one week ago) link

p sure i personally deserve a greater share of blame for what happened just by being a citizen (as does greenwald)

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 9 November 2019 18:46 (one week ago) link

GG has voiced plenty of opinions that i disagree with but i can think of no scenario, literally none, in which any of those opinions had a noticeable effect on the outcome of the 2016 election

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 9 November 2019 19:04 (one week ago) link

Ok, but by that standard his new reporting isn't that important anyway, because Bolsanaro is mostly being defeated by his own idiocy. It's a pretty pathetic excuse that Greenwald helping Russians elect Trump probably didn't turn the election. It was a stupid thing to do anyway, and pretty obviously stupid at the moment.

Frederik B, Sunday, 10 November 2019 10:27 (six days ago) link

And the only reason they did it was that they thought Clinton was sure to be elected anyway. Publishing a private persons emails which had been hacked by Russian intelligence was straightforwardly indefensible from a leftist website concerned with privacy. But, y'know, he was probably going to be chief of staff?

Frederik B, Sunday, 10 November 2019 10:28 (six days ago) link

both the inputs and outputs of our social lives are so highly mediated that alleging (let alone proving) any actor's level of causation is a not always a best eval. you can fall back to "reasonable duty of care" sort of shit. who wants that. people want to ~know~ who did what.

(then suddenly youre gavrilo princip and this car pulls around the corner with an assload of hillary's emails and that shit needs to be distributed.)

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Sunday, 10 November 2019 16:13 (six days ago) link


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