defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

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ugh, the worst, right? anyway, i just really wanted to share this lustrous takedown of him from some guy's blog i don't know:
http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.il/2013/05/drooling-self-love-dime-store-third.html

One will search Greenwald’s writing for coherence in vain because, although he espouses moral relativism when it suits his agenda, as we’ve just seen, he’ll vehemently disown it with his very next breath. His is not a thoughtful, principled commitment to a philosophy he’s prepared to defend or apply consistently. Rather, his geopolitical outlook might be best described as a half-understood kind of dime-store Third Worldism; a gruesome combination of a thoroughgoing Western masochism with an ostensible compassion for the wretched of the earth that masks the same racist condescension and contempt typified by the worst kind of colonialist paternalism.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:32 (seven years ago) link

hes cooler than you

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:35 (seven years ago) link

isms in my opinion aren't good

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:36 (seven years ago) link

it was funny when the exile would troll him by only referring to him as "glenn greenwald of the libertarian cato institute"

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (seven years ago) link

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OoUEP8atZl4/UY8Z5RFJ5mI/AAAAAAAAALg/ftL1Q9ZSCTc/s1600/greenwald.jpg

he looks like an older mark zuckerberg here

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (seven years ago) link

Principled, consistent, systematic political philosophers do not become pundits. Greenwald's inconsistencies merely validate his membership in that group. Apart from that shocking accusation, all the rest of the takedown quoted above is pure vilification. iow, it is a less witty version of what Greenwald does for a living. pot calling out the kettle.

Aimless, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:39 (seven years ago) link

no no I meant it as a compliment

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (seven years ago) link

By calling him the "worst", you are being as simplistic as he sometimes is.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (seven years ago) link

I think he is a bad writer but I agree with most of the points he makes.

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:41 (seven years ago) link

good thing i'm only making threads on ilx and not opining for a major newspaper xp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (seven years ago) link

Mordy does simplistic a lot, with relish

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (seven years ago) link

mordy doesnt like glenn-chan because he refuses to kiss israel's feet and lips and buttlips. let's just be real about it

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:43 (seven years ago) link

well that's why he's the worst!

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (seven years ago) link

Mordy, I've only read the Thatcher article, show me what he wrote that you didn't like?

cardamon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (seven years ago) link

Like any pundit he's useful when you need him to prove your point. Explaining how presidential administration quietly or openly chip away at civil liberties is his strength; he lacks the subtlety to explain what makes civil liberties worth preserving and the style that would make him consistently readable. Like all brands, he's taken for granted.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:45 (seven years ago) link

^ i agree with this

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:48 (seven years ago) link

"thoroughgoing Western masochism" = we hadda kill those people, dammit.

Works well for Israel, too.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:50 (seven years ago) link

like most men, he looks vile in cargo shorts

http://www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/GlennGreenwald1.jpg

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:51 (seven years ago) link

goddamn his husband

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:52 (seven years ago) link

He looks better in cargo shorts than glenn does

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:54 (seven years ago) link

goddamn to hell colored flip flops.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:13 (seven years ago) link

lol this thread

greenwald is occasionally (ok, more than occasionally) long-winded but he is easily the best political blogger of the last decade.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:18 (seven years ago) link

treeship mostly otm

also i think we've gone over this ground p thoroughly in the last 5 years

also that blog you linked to really sucks!

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:25 (seven years ago) link

harry's place, LGF, euston manifesto in the blogroll... labor hawks, man, 2004 in effect

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:27 (seven years ago) link

mordy didn't you love greenwald until a few years ago

mordy's not an obama stan but i did sort of notice that he lost a lot of fans around 2009 or so, weird

who lost fans, GG, obama or mordy?

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:30 (seven years ago) link

i did love greenwald until a few years ago - i remember when i forced myself to unsub from his rss feed. this was when he was still at salon.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:31 (seven years ago) link

Hmm. It seems to me that the only reason Greenwald is perplexed by accusations of relativism is that he doesn't understand what the term means. [goes on to define moral relativism]

yes thanks much fucker

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:33 (seven years ago) link

anyway he's at his best when he just writes about the law and doesn't try to pundit so much, and once you read like 100 of his columns you pretty much know what he's going to think about everything and he becomes less necessary to read on a daily basis. he's definitely a necessary force for good in the world of political writing. even if i don't need to read him anymore, i wouldn't want a blogosphere without him

have to say some of the clones he's produced are pretty dire, like him otm more often than not but with even less style and just clearly not as smart or well-researched. forget these dudes names atm but it's not important, they're like slate writers or something. also goes without saying his commenters are generally the scum of the earth but i haven't read any of his comments in years either

i used to find his writing very interesting - he'd present new material (especially legal material) that i wasn't familiar with, he'd analyze it very insightfully, etc. now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is. also i think he's doubled down significantly on the wrong side of liberalism. like when he asked recently why Israeli can bomb Syria without condemnation when obv if Syria bombed Israel ppl would be hysterical. obv equivalencies like that are immediately intellectually suspect (um, Assad has been lobbing shit into Israel for months w/out much attention), but also it's just this really facile kind of geopolitical analysis. at some point he traded in what he was good at - legal analysis - for ideological tirades. i think it really destroyed any value he held.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (seven years ago) link

lol at that 'lustrous takedown,' which includes gems like this:

Those of us who recognise the universal importance and desirability of the above, have little difficulty in ascribing inferiority to a culture that is - conversely - obscurantist, theocratic, misogynistic, racist and oppressive, such as that of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

dismissing a 'culture' (rather than a government) as 'inferior' sounds pretty racist to me.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (seven years ago) link

cultures aren't synonymous w/ races

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (seven years ago) link

maybe it's culturist tho!

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (seven years ago) link

yeah i mean it's kind of a dickish thing to say no matter how you slice it.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (seven years ago) link

nah, some cultures obv suck

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (seven years ago) link

i am a big fan of both gg and mordy, i am sad they can't be friends

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (seven years ago) link

they can walk in flip flops and shorts together

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (seven years ago) link

now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is

eh he inserts enough qualifiers and equivocations to suggest otherwise, but he IS fond of adverbs

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:39 (seven years ago) link

feet and lips and buttlips

I love you

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:40 (seven years ago) link

i do think GG used to be better than he is now -- he rarely surprises me anymore. i usually skip the pieces where he just complains about cable news. this was one of his better pieces from the last couple years:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/02/obama-civil-liberties-history

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (seven years ago) link

let's summarize Mordy's points:

tuchus

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (seven years ago) link

i did make fun of mordy's cargo shorts once which i regret

i think JD's point that he's the best political blogger of the past decade (ever?) is pretty tough to argue with; even if you dislike his more recent punditry (something i can sympathize with), his strengths make him on balance pretty invaluable. you can even just choose to remember the good times

Greenwald can only withhold judgement of Iran's dismal human rights record or Syria's campaign of sectarian slaughter by affirming that Persians and Arabs are simply not culturally suited to the liberties and protections derived from Enlightenment thought to which Westerners rightly feel they are entitled. Instead, they must be perceived as childlike, simple and sometimes savage peoples whose cultural proclivities demonstrate a preference for subjugation, violence, injustice and fear over liberty and peace, and who are incapable of understanding egalitarian concepts of human rights due to their uniquely 'Western' character.

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (seven years ago) link

maybe the best domestic blogger critic of america but he's so outclassed by like every other geopolitical blogger

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (seven years ago) link

the blue and the dim of feet and lips and buttlips
i would spread my lips on those buttlips

i think that's pretty otm. i've felt for a long time like there's a racism of low expectations at play in post-colonialism + cultural relativism xxp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:44 (seven years ago) link

like stephen walt is hardly a friend of israel but he's so much more worth reading than greenwald. he actually writes new material and has insights that seem valuable. and he doesn't rant.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (seven years ago) link

nah, some cultures obv suck

― Mordy , Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:37 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark

agreed, for example the racist settler state known as Israel

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (seven years ago) link

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

― goole, Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:40 PM (3 minutes ago)

ha wait, who's the relativist now?

gg has said on numerous occasions that he focuses on the US because he's a US citizen. seems pretty simple

and that’s my very muted ilx version of these opinions of course, god forbid I say how I actually feel about anything to do with natsec on this forum

sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Monday, 21 December 2020 05:35 (three weeks ago) link

the left is portrayed as eager to cancel anyone for the slightest misstep but it actually has such low standards for its heroes. leftists will embrace any micro-celebrity who vaguely seems share some of their enemies, regardless of why, or how awful their other positions are

― Left, Friday, December 18, 2020 2:46 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

i don’t think gg ever ran afoul of pc idpol left did he? that’s the cancellous faction

flopson, Monday, 21 December 2020 05:49 (three weeks ago) link

dude he’s been taking paid appearances on tucker carlson for years are you joking

sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Monday, 21 December 2020 05:51 (three weeks ago) link

he goes on carlson to trash democrats though, which the left doesn’t care about, not to like, bash trans ppl or criticize defund the police. his foreign policy focus keeps him mostly out of hot water, unlike say Lee Fang who constantly steps on rakes

flopson, Monday, 21 December 2020 06:20 (three weeks ago) link

the act of being on tucker carlson is an endorsement of white supremacy

sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Monday, 21 December 2020 06:36 (three weeks ago) link

i don’t think gg ever ran afoul of pc idpol left did he? that’s the cancellous faction

― flopson, Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:49 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

not directly, but one of my primary issues with him is that gg is a big free speech supporter which necessarily involves being friends with and promoting the work of jesse singal

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 21 December 2020 12:56 (three weeks ago) link

k3v otm, essentially

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 21 December 2020 12:58 (three weeks ago) link

There is no reason to appear on a sniveling white supremacist's show unless you think your values are so unassailable that the white supremacist could never sully them.

Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 December 2020 12:59 (three weeks ago) link

His early career is knee-deep with sniveling white supremacists, so he's actually come full circle.

Cortex the Killer (PBKR), Monday, 21 December 2020 13:18 (three weeks ago) link

and that’s my very muted ilx version of these opinions of course, god forbid I say how I actually feel about anything to do with natsec on this forum

this sentence has an ominous energy

stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Monday, 21 December 2020 13:23 (three weeks ago) link

It pretty much boils down to “I think spy agencies and the military should continue to exist - it’s how Presidents choose to use them that’s the problem, & mostly because the electorate doesn’t give two shits about foreign policy except in the most simplistic and xenophobic ways possible” are you still scared

sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Monday, 21 December 2020 13:42 (three weeks ago) link

"I love it when we do coups"

i don’t think gg ever ran afoul of pc idpol left did he

oh he did, many times, it's more he didn't run afoul of the unpc anti-idpol left which was/is eager to shout down (i.e. cancel) anyone who calls out their fav celebrities on their bullshit (never forget russell brand)

Left, Monday, 21 December 2020 13:50 (three weeks ago) link

wait are there ppl beyond trash island who still care about russell brand

stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Monday, 21 December 2020 13:52 (three weeks ago) link

no but his persecution by PC harpies was a major galvanising event for the current iteration of anti-idpol leftism

Left, Monday, 21 December 2020 13:56 (three weeks ago) link

For a...unique definition of "major," sure.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 21 December 2020 14:06 (three weeks ago) link

Left, you've been busy the last 24 hours here.

Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 December 2020 14:11 (three weeks ago) link

fwiw i don't oppose the continued existence of spy agencies but i think it's good that the public now knows about the US government's mass surveillance programs and bad that the government tried to conceal them.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 21 December 2020 19:42 (three weeks ago) link

The last time I heard anyone give a shit about Brand, they were roasting him for his shock that “working class men” used the word apricot.

Joe Biden Stan Account (milo z), Monday, 21 December 2020 19:47 (three weeks ago) link

no but his persecution by PC harpies was a major galvanising event for the current iteration of anti-idpol leftism

― Left, Monday, December 21, 2020 8:56 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

buddy you've got the worst case of twitter brain i've ever seen

, Monday, 21 December 2020 20:23 (three weeks ago) link

what I was alluding to was the k-punk essay which continues to be influential on the UK/US pop left. several british leftists I've interacted with have blamed critics of it (like me) for the author's death. so I'm bitter

Left, Monday, 21 December 2020 20:28 (three weeks ago) link

xp this is a glenn greenwald thread

Left, Monday, 21 December 2020 20:29 (three weeks ago) link

im not saying it’s good that gg went on tucker carlson or he shouldn’t have been cancelled for it, just that he didn’t get cancelled by the left for it

one of my primary issues with him is that gg is a big free speech supporter which necessarily involves being friends with and promoting the work of jesse singal

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, December 21, 2020 7:56 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

that gg isn’t cancelled by the left the way singal is proves my point tho

he didn't run afoul of the unpc anti-idpol left which was/is eager to shout down (i.e. cancel) anyone who calls out their fav celebrities on their bullshit (never forget russell brand)

― Left, Monday, December 21, 2020 8:50 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

nah this is just finger-pointing and judging from your ilx posts you’re just too knee-deep in left factionalism to see it (“the pc idpol left cancels people” “no the anti-pc un-idpol left cancel people!”) both groups constantly *try* to cancel ppl; it’s essentially the only political power they have. id argue pc cancellation is somewhat more effective; only like 0.1% of people are marxists but the vast majority of people don’t want to be perceived as bigots. calling someone a neoliberal doesn’t really stick the way racist, transphobic etc does

flopson, Monday, 21 December 2020 20:38 (three weeks ago) link

tucker is...semi cancelled? "out at his own outlet" merits at least that imo

stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Monday, 21 December 2020 20:41 (three weeks ago) link

so tucker carlsons show getting cancelled by fox cancels gg on the left by transitivity?

flopson, Monday, 21 December 2020 20:44 (three weeks ago) link

tucker was cancelled by libs and the center pulling his ad revenue, no? as has been clear for years now the left no longer has a monopoly on cancelling

flopson, Monday, 21 December 2020 20:46 (three weeks ago) link

lol sorry I meant to say gg was semi cancelled, funny how my brain confuzzles the two

stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Monday, 21 December 2020 20:53 (three weeks ago) link

unlike most people who get cancelled, gg personally told each and every person who said anything mean about him on twitter to fuck off

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 21 December 2020 20:59 (three weeks ago) link

oh right lol i’d forgotten he got fired by intercept. although interestingly that was over him pushing hunter biden stuff, also he had likely orchestrated jumping ship to substack prior to it

flopson, Monday, 21 December 2020 21:01 (three weeks ago) link

GG = the Giuliani of the Jacobin fringe

Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 December 2020 21:02 (three weeks ago) link

lmao i had actually forgotten that that had all happened over the hunter biden story, and also i had completely forgotten the hunter biden story. what a hill of sand to die on

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 21 December 2020 21:07 (three weeks ago) link

Brad, Brad.

You don't get it. You haven't a clue. This shows how the American media has made you supine.

Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 December 2020 21:08 (three weeks ago) link

Update 4:14pm: Glenn Greenwald confirmed as alive - despite Brad knowingly false-reporting that he died on a hill of sand!

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, 21 December 2020 21:15 (three weeks ago) link

guys here's a bad and inappropriate glenn greenwald joke

what did glenn greenwald change his name to after he bottomed without cleaning out first?

glenn brownwald

ffolkes (map), Monday, 21 December 2020 21:18 (three weeks ago) link

ew

DJP, Monday, 21 December 2020 21:23 (three weeks ago) link

calling someone a neoliberal doesn’t really stick the way racist, transphobic etc does

yeah that must be why major left orgs & media aren't full of racist & transphobes & predators with significant social capital who use accusations of neoliberalism to shut down nobodies who attempt to draw attention to those things

this non debate goes round in circles but if I'm in a bubble so are you because this is exactly the fisherite bs I was talking about

this is relevant to gg in that the radlib idpol wreckers were right about him years ago as all but the most unreconstructed assangeites now acknowledge and they are right about other things which the left establishment would still rather sweep under the rug

Left, Monday, 21 December 2020 22:21 (three weeks ago) link

leftists: why are they so bad and hated

Babby's Yed Revisited (jim in vancouver), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:24 (three weeks ago) link

glenn greenwald: "when hating the libs goes wrong"

Babby's Yed Revisited (jim in vancouver), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:26 (three weeks ago) link

the spiked phenomenon. many such cases

Left, Monday, 21 December 2020 22:32 (three weeks ago) link

spiked adds the element of trotskyism into the mix. never trust a trot

Babby's Yed Revisited (jim in vancouver), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:47 (three weeks ago) link

(I actually have family friends who are prominent trots and nice people but this is a general rule which I think is best followed)

Babby's Yed Revisited (jim in vancouver), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:49 (three weeks ago) link

I'm not ctrl-fing has someone made the inevitable "GG Allin had better politics" joke? Does Glenn like to drink and fuck as well as fight?

Yes Virginia, there really is a (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:50 (three weeks ago) link

this non debate goes round in circles but if I'm in a bubble so are you because this is exactly the fisherite bs I was talking about

im not really in a bubble with regards to this stuff tbh (also im prejudiced against british ppl and ive never knowingly read anything by mark fisher) im just addicted to rubbernecking leftist drama on twitter. it’s more prurient sociological observation than partisanship

flopson, Tuesday, 22 December 2020 07:26 (three weeks ago) link

Why do you hate us so much? We are cancelling Xmas, doing Brexit and creating new covid strains. I don't get it..

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 December 2020 08:35 (three weeks ago) link

i'm british and i hate british people more than anything in the world

prurient sociological observation sounds more interesting than partisanship but regardless this discourse didn't start on twitter and as boring as it sounds is formed by and informs the actual relations that constitute the left, labour movement, counterculture, or whatever. basically culture war is class war

Left, Tuesday, 22 December 2020 10:17 (three weeks ago) link

three weeks pass...

when someone shows you who they are etc

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErkutSAVEAUSbKJ?format=png

as#d,.F:ddz;,c#,;;,;,;,sdf' (Left), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:44 (four days ago) link

also doing 2 hours with Megyn Kelly.

by the light of the burning Citroën, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:46 (four days ago) link

no one can say they weren't warned

as#d,.F:ddz;,c#,;;,;,;,sdf' (Left), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:51 (four days ago) link

Glenngreenwald Glenn Beck

jaymc, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 23:03 (four days ago) link

Company you keep and keep and keep and keep and pays and keep and keep and keep im in brazil now and keep and keep and keep and keep

pence's eye juice (Hunt3r), Thursday, 14 January 2021 00:42 (three days ago) link

From Greenwald to Beck: Glenns on Crack-
Down

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Thursday, 14 January 2021 00:43 (three days ago) link


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