defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

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ugh, the worst, right? anyway, i just really wanted to share this lustrous takedown of him from some guy's blog i don't know:
http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.il/2013/05/drooling-self-love-dime-store-third.html

One will search Greenwald’s writing for coherence in vain because, although he espouses moral relativism when it suits his agenda, as we’ve just seen, he’ll vehemently disown it with his very next breath. His is not a thoughtful, principled commitment to a philosophy he’s prepared to defend or apply consistently. Rather, his geopolitical outlook might be best described as a half-understood kind of dime-store Third Worldism; a gruesome combination of a thoroughgoing Western masochism with an ostensible compassion for the wretched of the earth that masks the same racist condescension and contempt typified by the worst kind of colonialist paternalism.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:32 (six years ago) Permalink

hes cooler than you

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:35 (six years ago) Permalink

isms in my opinion aren't good

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:36 (six years ago) Permalink

it was funny when the exile would troll him by only referring to him as "glenn greenwald of the libertarian cato institute"

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (six years ago) Permalink

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OoUEP8atZl4/UY8Z5RFJ5mI/AAAAAAAAALg/ftL1Q9ZSCTc/s1600/greenwald.jpg

he looks like an older mark zuckerberg here

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (six years ago) Permalink

Principled, consistent, systematic political philosophers do not become pundits. Greenwald's inconsistencies merely validate his membership in that group. Apart from that shocking accusation, all the rest of the takedown quoted above is pure vilification. iow, it is a less witty version of what Greenwald does for a living. pot calling out the kettle.

Aimless, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:39 (six years ago) Permalink

no no I meant it as a compliment

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (six years ago) Permalink

By calling him the "worst", you are being as simplistic as he sometimes is.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (six years ago) Permalink

I think he is a bad writer but I agree with most of the points he makes.

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:41 (six years ago) Permalink

good thing i'm only making threads on ilx and not opining for a major newspaper xp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (six years ago) Permalink

Mordy does simplistic a lot, with relish

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (six years ago) Permalink

mordy doesnt like glenn-chan because he refuses to kiss israel's feet and lips and buttlips. let's just be real about it

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:43 (six years ago) Permalink

well that's why he's the worst!

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (six years ago) Permalink

Mordy, I've only read the Thatcher article, show me what he wrote that you didn't like?

cardamon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (six years ago) Permalink

Like any pundit he's useful when you need him to prove your point. Explaining how presidential administration quietly or openly chip away at civil liberties is his strength; he lacks the subtlety to explain what makes civil liberties worth preserving and the style that would make him consistently readable. Like all brands, he's taken for granted.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:45 (six years ago) Permalink

^ i agree with this

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:48 (six years ago) Permalink

"thoroughgoing Western masochism" = we hadda kill those people, dammit.

Works well for Israel, too.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:50 (six years ago) Permalink

like most men, he looks vile in cargo shorts

http://www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/GlennGreenwald1.jpg

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:51 (six years ago) Permalink

goddamn his husband

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:52 (six years ago) Permalink

He looks better in cargo shorts than glenn does

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:54 (six years ago) Permalink

goddamn to hell colored flip flops.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:13 (six years ago) Permalink

lol this thread

greenwald is occasionally (ok, more than occasionally) long-winded but he is easily the best political blogger of the last decade.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:18 (six years ago) Permalink

treeship mostly otm

also i think we've gone over this ground p thoroughly in the last 5 years

also that blog you linked to really sucks!

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:25 (six years ago) Permalink

harry's place, LGF, euston manifesto in the blogroll... labor hawks, man, 2004 in effect

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:27 (six years ago) Permalink

mordy didn't you love greenwald until a few years ago

mordy's not an obama stan but i did sort of notice that he lost a lot of fans around 2009 or so, weird

you are not a better writer than f. scott fitzgerald. you are not a b (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:29 (six years ago) Permalink

who lost fans, GG, obama or mordy?

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:30 (six years ago) Permalink

i did love greenwald until a few years ago - i remember when i forced myself to unsub from his rss feed. this was when he was still at salon.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:31 (six years ago) Permalink

Hmm. It seems to me that the only reason Greenwald is perplexed by accusations of relativism is that he doesn't understand what the term means. [goes on to define moral relativism]

yes thanks much fucker

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:33 (six years ago) Permalink

anyway he's at his best when he just writes about the law and doesn't try to pundit so much, and once you read like 100 of his columns you pretty much know what he's going to think about everything and he becomes less necessary to read on a daily basis. he's definitely a necessary force for good in the world of political writing. even if i don't need to read him anymore, i wouldn't want a blogosphere without him

have to say some of the clones he's produced are pretty dire, like him otm more often than not but with even less style and just clearly not as smart or well-researched. forget these dudes names atm but it's not important, they're like slate writers or something. also goes without saying his commenters are generally the scum of the earth but i haven't read any of his comments in years either

you are not a better writer than f. scott fitzgerald. you are not a b (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:33 (six years ago) Permalink

i used to find his writing very interesting - he'd present new material (especially legal material) that i wasn't familiar with, he'd analyze it very insightfully, etc. now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is. also i think he's doubled down significantly on the wrong side of liberalism. like when he asked recently why Israeli can bomb Syria without condemnation when obv if Syria bombed Israel ppl would be hysterical. obv equivalencies like that are immediately intellectually suspect (um, Assad has been lobbing shit into Israel for months w/out much attention), but also it's just this really facile kind of geopolitical analysis. at some point he traded in what he was good at - legal analysis - for ideological tirades. i think it really destroyed any value he held.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (six years ago) Permalink

lol at that 'lustrous takedown,' which includes gems like this:

Those of us who recognise the universal importance and desirability of the above, have little difficulty in ascribing inferiority to a culture that is - conversely - obscurantist, theocratic, misogynistic, racist and oppressive, such as that of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

dismissing a 'culture' (rather than a government) as 'inferior' sounds pretty racist to me.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (six years ago) Permalink

cultures aren't synonymous w/ races

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (six years ago) Permalink

maybe it's culturist tho!

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (six years ago) Permalink

yeah i mean it's kind of a dickish thing to say no matter how you slice it.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (six years ago) Permalink

nah, some cultures obv suck

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (six years ago) Permalink

i am a big fan of both gg and mordy, i am sad they can't be friends

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (six years ago) Permalink

they can walk in flip flops and shorts together

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (six years ago) Permalink

now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is

eh he inserts enough qualifiers and equivocations to suggest otherwise, but he IS fond of adverbs

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:39 (six years ago) Permalink

feet and lips and buttlips

I love you

Oral Sex in Sharp’s Ridge Park (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:39 (six years ago) Permalink

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:40 (six years ago) Permalink

i do think GG used to be better than he is now -- he rarely surprises me anymore. i usually skip the pieces where he just complains about cable news. this was one of his better pieces from the last couple years:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/02/obama-civil-liberties-history

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (six years ago) Permalink

let's summarize Mordy's points:

tuchus

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (six years ago) Permalink

i did make fun of mordy's cargo shorts once which i regret

i think JD's point that he's the best political blogger of the past decade (ever?) is pretty tough to argue with; even if you dislike his more recent punditry (something i can sympathize with), his strengths make him on balance pretty invaluable. you can even just choose to remember the good times

you are not a better writer than f. scott fitzgerald. you are not a b (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:42 (six years ago) Permalink

Greenwald can only withhold judgement of Iran's dismal human rights record or Syria's campaign of sectarian slaughter by affirming that Persians and Arabs are simply not culturally suited to the liberties and protections derived from Enlightenment thought to which Westerners rightly feel they are entitled. Instead, they must be perceived as childlike, simple and sometimes savage peoples whose cultural proclivities demonstrate a preference for subjugation, violence, injustice and fear over liberty and peace, and who are incapable of understanding egalitarian concepts of human rights due to their uniquely 'Western' character.

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (six years ago) Permalink

maybe the best domestic blogger critic of america but he's so outclassed by like every other geopolitical blogger

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (six years ago) Permalink

the blue and the dim of feet and lips and buttlips
i would spread my lips on those buttlips

you are not a better writer than f. scott fitzgerald. you are not a b (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:44 (six years ago) Permalink

i think that's pretty otm. i've felt for a long time like there's a racism of low expectations at play in post-colonialism + cultural relativism xxp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:44 (six years ago) Permalink

like stephen walt is hardly a friend of israel but he's so much more worth reading than greenwald. he actually writes new material and has insights that seem valuable. and he doesn't rant.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (six years ago) Permalink

nah, some cultures obv suck

― Mordy , Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:37 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark

agreed, for example the racist settler state known as Israel

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (six years ago) Permalink

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

― goole, Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:40 PM (3 minutes ago)

ha wait, who's the relativist now?

gg has said on numerous occasions that he focuses on the US because he's a US citizen. seems pretty simple

you are not a better writer than f. scott fitzgerald. you are not a b (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:46 (six years ago) Permalink

wait is rescuing dogs bad now too or is the usual stuff

― k3vin k., Sunday, March 10, 2019 7:12 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he's white savioring brazilian dogs

moose; squirrel (silby), Monday, 11 March 2019 21:48 (two months ago) Permalink

oh for the sake of christ

k3vin k., Monday, 11 March 2019 23:14 (two months ago) Permalink

who the fuck is scraeming "LOG OFF" at my house. show yourself, coward. i will never log off

— wint (@dril) September 16, 2012

Jeff Bathos (symsymsym), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 06:06 (two months ago) Permalink

"oh for the sake of christ" is a good one

flappy bird, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:12 (two months ago) Permalink

"oh for the sake of christ," said zooey to franny

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:58 (two months ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

He seems genuinely unwell at this point:

Me, the day profile came out: Please read this largely fair, good faith examination of my views
Also me, after very calmly stewing over it for the past 8 months: THIS SMEAR ARTIST TRIED TO PAINT ME AS PSYCHOLOGY DAMAGED, FULL OF RAGE & RESENTMENT. LOOK WHO'S LAUGHING NOW HAHAHA! pic.twitter.com/m8BsHnzejE

— Centrism Fan Acct 🔹 (@Wilson__Valdez) March 27, 2019

Frederik B, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:15 (one month ago) Permalink

I decided to read the dude’s twitter feed today and he was retweeting the daily caller. Wtf dude

Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:17 (one month ago) Permalink

im not seeing that?

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:24 (one month ago) Permalink

glenn is having his day in the sun. haters gonna hate

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:25 (one month ago) Permalink

he retweeted dasha promoting a red scare episode with michael tracey and angela nagle in the room, which is like, lol, what a motley crew of shitiness

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:27 (one month ago) Permalink

Angela Nagle’s accent is nice. I give her a pass for this reason.

Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:28 (one month ago) Permalink

apparently she doesn't speak on the ep she's just in the room.

i haven't heard her accent. i have unfortunately read her takes. im the child of a refugee so she can eat my ass

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:31 (one month ago) Permalink

Fair

Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:37 (one month ago) Permalink

I thought her book was illuminating but i’m not on board with her going on tucker etc.

Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:37 (one month ago) Permalink

When I wrote this both Glenn and Michael Tracey shared it, now I’m a Russiagate careerist from Brooklyn who lives in North Carolina https://t.co/qWTVnVQFT4

— Paul Blest (@pblest) March 27, 2019

Simon H., Wednesday, 27 March 2019 23:40 (one month ago) Permalink

I just googled greenwald. His husband is very handsome, jeez

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:10 (one month ago) Permalink

Who are all these people

moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:16 (one month ago) Permalink

Has Michael Tracey done/written anything particularly notable/worth reading? I feel like I’ve only become aware of him in the context of him going on Carlson to rant about russiagate.

JoeStork, Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:28 (one month ago) Permalink

And half of twitter arguing about him, but I’m not clear why he matters.

JoeStork, Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:29 (one month ago) Permalink

None of these people have done anything notable. They could all be buried in the same avalanche at no loss to the world.

grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:31 (one month ago) Permalink

Not quite as baffling as the obsession with WASBAPPIN among people I follow on twitter but getting there.

JoeStork, Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:32 (one month ago) Permalink

what is really bappin, is what we wonder

mh, Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:36 (one month ago) Permalink

Michael Tracey is a weird contrarian freelance journo,basically unfollowable on twitter because his hot takes are so annoying. His claim to fame is reporting during the Trump campaign and predicting Trump's victory.

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:40 (one month ago) Permalink

Hes a russiagate critic

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:41 (one month ago) Permalink

maxine waters apparently violently assaulted him by kind of nudging him out of the way once

mh, Thursday, 28 March 2019 00:44 (one month ago) Permalink

i'm glad i got something from this revive, another reason to like maxine waters

cheese canopy (map), Thursday, 28 March 2019 04:20 (one month ago) Permalink

Yeah she barely brushed him and he cried assault.

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 28 March 2019 04:49 (one month ago) Permalink

I'm ok with Glenn generally, but going on Tucker Carlson to gloat about russiagate seems dumb. Nothing wrong with going on Tucker's show, and more people should do so, but only if you're going to actually use his platform otherwise you're just his useful idiot.

The Michael Tracey guy seems unhinged, desperate to make a bigger name for himself, or both. Not a person to be taken seriously at any rate

anvil, Monday, 1 April 2019 20:23 (one month ago) Permalink

Nothing wrong with going on Tucker's show, and more people should do so, but only if you're going to actually use his platform otherwise you're just his useful idiot.

How exactly is this supposed to work? It's well documented that if a Carlson segment goes poorly for him, he just won't air it.

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 1 April 2019 20:27 (one month ago) Permalink

If thats a reference to the Dutch historian thing, I thought the historian guy totally blew that. Tucker would have aired the clip if the historian had stuck to talking about taxation. His decision to launch into a full blooded takedown of Fox/Carlson was never going to air and he knew that, was playing to gallery for the retweets instead.

You don't need the segment to go poorly for Carlson to still get points of view across (taxation, anti-war, legalization, m4a or whatever)

anvil, Monday, 1 April 2019 20:39 (one month ago) Permalink

no one should ever go on tucker's show for any reason. i'm the final arbiter of this. thanks.

also glenn greenwald is perfectly indefensible. lock thread.

bamcquern, Monday, 1 April 2019 21:29 (one month ago) Permalink

wow the Taibbi/Greenwald obsessives have been busy today, so

Didn't see David Corn at the local co-op today. I half expected to find him in the parking lot, selling his Russiagate book out of his trunk.

— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) March 31, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:58 (one month ago) Permalink

who

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:00 (one month ago) Permalink

say glenn greenwald is bottoming but he hasn't cleaned out. what should his last name be changed to? brownwald.

cheese canopy (map), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:20 (one month ago) Permalink

oh no

mh, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 00:32 (one month ago) Permalink

I've been 'letting that one sit' for a few days now

cheese canopy (map), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 02:33 (one month ago) Permalink

defend the indefensible: Dennis Perrin tweets

Jeff Bathos (symsymsym), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 05:57 (one month ago) Permalink

greenwald might work as is, depending on health and diet

say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 06:09 (one month ago) Permalink

Kind of pissed that Carlson never has DJ Spooky on as a guest, they could debate bullshit IDM

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 16:25 (one month ago) Permalink

illbient times

mh, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 17:19 (one month ago) Permalink

Lol

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 17:28 (one month ago) Permalink

(tbc i appreciate the intercept. that image just reminded me of the stuff you see on subway walls advertising these amorphous "leadership conferences.")

cold grey pantaloons (Gummy Gummy), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 17:46 (one month ago) Permalink

(also: pitbull)

cold grey pantaloons (Gummy Gummy), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 17:46 (one month ago) Permalink

I've been to one of those conferences, it was a nightmare. Bill Cosby gave a speech that was basically a long riff on "get off my lawn, kids". Somehow the only moderately decent speech was Colin Powell.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 17:48 (one month ago) Permalink

I honestly don't get why Greenwald is so ride or die to defend Trump from accusations of corruption. Today he's hammering on "the only thing those Resistance wackos are unhappy about in Barr's report is that he suppressed any discussion of the evidence that people working for Trump obstructed justice," which, um, yeah, why would that not be something to be seriously unhappy about?

Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 4 April 2019 22:05 (one month ago) Permalink

one month passes...

This 100+ thread is a tough read:

1) So now we have self-described “progressives” like @ggreenwald and @mtracey telling us that the threat of white nationalism in the USA is “nonexistent” (as Tracey put it), and when called out for that GG chimes in and claims that we “needs be keep the threat in perspective.” pic.twitter.com/89CDRKzN1v

— David Neiwert (@DavidNeiwert) May 20, 2019

Frederik B, Monday, 20 May 2019 22:02 (six days ago) Permalink

but take a step back from inside the charred remains of this black church and—oh right you can't you're dead

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 00:50 (five days ago) Permalink

fuck this asshole

american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 18:19 (four days ago) Permalink


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