defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

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ugh, the worst, right? anyway, i just really wanted to share this lustrous takedown of him from some guy's blog i don't know:
http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.il/2013/05/drooling-self-love-dime-store-third.html

One will search Greenwald’s writing for coherence in vain because, although he espouses moral relativism when it suits his agenda, as we’ve just seen, he’ll vehemently disown it with his very next breath. His is not a thoughtful, principled commitment to a philosophy he’s prepared to defend or apply consistently. Rather, his geopolitical outlook might be best described as a half-understood kind of dime-store Third Worldism; a gruesome combination of a thoroughgoing Western masochism with an ostensible compassion for the wretched of the earth that masks the same racist condescension and contempt typified by the worst kind of colonialist paternalism.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:32 (seven years ago) link

hes cooler than you

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:35 (seven years ago) link

isms in my opinion aren't good

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:36 (seven years ago) link

it was funny when the exile would troll him by only referring to him as "glenn greenwald of the libertarian cato institute"

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (seven years ago) link

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OoUEP8atZl4/UY8Z5RFJ5mI/AAAAAAAAALg/ftL1Q9ZSCTc/s1600/greenwald.jpg

he looks like an older mark zuckerberg here

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (seven years ago) link

Principled, consistent, systematic political philosophers do not become pundits. Greenwald's inconsistencies merely validate his membership in that group. Apart from that shocking accusation, all the rest of the takedown quoted above is pure vilification. iow, it is a less witty version of what Greenwald does for a living. pot calling out the kettle.

Aimless, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:39 (seven years ago) link

no no I meant it as a compliment

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (seven years ago) link

By calling him the "worst", you are being as simplistic as he sometimes is.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (seven years ago) link

I think he is a bad writer but I agree with most of the points he makes.

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:41 (seven years ago) link

good thing i'm only making threads on ilx and not opining for a major newspaper xp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (seven years ago) link

Mordy does simplistic a lot, with relish

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (seven years ago) link

mordy doesnt like glenn-chan because he refuses to kiss israel's feet and lips and buttlips. let's just be real about it

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:43 (seven years ago) link

well that's why he's the worst!

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (seven years ago) link

Mordy, I've only read the Thatcher article, show me what he wrote that you didn't like?

cardamon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (seven years ago) link

Like any pundit he's useful when you need him to prove your point. Explaining how presidential administration quietly or openly chip away at civil liberties is his strength; he lacks the subtlety to explain what makes civil liberties worth preserving and the style that would make him consistently readable. Like all brands, he's taken for granted.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:45 (seven years ago) link

^ i agree with this

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:48 (seven years ago) link

"thoroughgoing Western masochism" = we hadda kill those people, dammit.

Works well for Israel, too.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:50 (seven years ago) link

like most men, he looks vile in cargo shorts

http://www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/GlennGreenwald1.jpg

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:51 (seven years ago) link

goddamn his husband

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:52 (seven years ago) link

He looks better in cargo shorts than glenn does

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:54 (seven years ago) link

goddamn to hell colored flip flops.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:13 (seven years ago) link

lol this thread

greenwald is occasionally (ok, more than occasionally) long-winded but he is easily the best political blogger of the last decade.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:18 (seven years ago) link

treeship mostly otm

also i think we've gone over this ground p thoroughly in the last 5 years

also that blog you linked to really sucks!

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:25 (seven years ago) link

harry's place, LGF, euston manifesto in the blogroll... labor hawks, man, 2004 in effect

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:27 (seven years ago) link

mordy didn't you love greenwald until a few years ago

mordy's not an obama stan but i did sort of notice that he lost a lot of fans around 2009 or so, weird

who lost fans, GG, obama or mordy?

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:30 (seven years ago) link

i did love greenwald until a few years ago - i remember when i forced myself to unsub from his rss feed. this was when he was still at salon.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:31 (seven years ago) link

Hmm. It seems to me that the only reason Greenwald is perplexed by accusations of relativism is that he doesn't understand what the term means. [goes on to define moral relativism]

yes thanks much fucker

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:33 (seven years ago) link

anyway he's at his best when he just writes about the law and doesn't try to pundit so much, and once you read like 100 of his columns you pretty much know what he's going to think about everything and he becomes less necessary to read on a daily basis. he's definitely a necessary force for good in the world of political writing. even if i don't need to read him anymore, i wouldn't want a blogosphere without him

have to say some of the clones he's produced are pretty dire, like him otm more often than not but with even less style and just clearly not as smart or well-researched. forget these dudes names atm but it's not important, they're like slate writers or something. also goes without saying his commenters are generally the scum of the earth but i haven't read any of his comments in years either

i used to find his writing very interesting - he'd present new material (especially legal material) that i wasn't familiar with, he'd analyze it very insightfully, etc. now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is. also i think he's doubled down significantly on the wrong side of liberalism. like when he asked recently why Israeli can bomb Syria without condemnation when obv if Syria bombed Israel ppl would be hysterical. obv equivalencies like that are immediately intellectually suspect (um, Assad has been lobbing shit into Israel for months w/out much attention), but also it's just this really facile kind of geopolitical analysis. at some point he traded in what he was good at - legal analysis - for ideological tirades. i think it really destroyed any value he held.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (seven years ago) link

lol at that 'lustrous takedown,' which includes gems like this:

Those of us who recognise the universal importance and desirability of the above, have little difficulty in ascribing inferiority to a culture that is - conversely - obscurantist, theocratic, misogynistic, racist and oppressive, such as that of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

dismissing a 'culture' (rather than a government) as 'inferior' sounds pretty racist to me.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (seven years ago) link

cultures aren't synonymous w/ races

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (seven years ago) link

maybe it's culturist tho!

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (seven years ago) link

yeah i mean it's kind of a dickish thing to say no matter how you slice it.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (seven years ago) link

nah, some cultures obv suck

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (seven years ago) link

i am a big fan of both gg and mordy, i am sad they can't be friends

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (seven years ago) link

they can walk in flip flops and shorts together

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (seven years ago) link

now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is

eh he inserts enough qualifiers and equivocations to suggest otherwise, but he IS fond of adverbs

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:39 (seven years ago) link

feet and lips and buttlips

I love you

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:40 (seven years ago) link

i do think GG used to be better than he is now -- he rarely surprises me anymore. i usually skip the pieces where he just complains about cable news. this was one of his better pieces from the last couple years:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/02/obama-civil-liberties-history

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (seven years ago) link

let's summarize Mordy's points:

tuchus

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (seven years ago) link

i did make fun of mordy's cargo shorts once which i regret

i think JD's point that he's the best political blogger of the past decade (ever?) is pretty tough to argue with; even if you dislike his more recent punditry (something i can sympathize with), his strengths make him on balance pretty invaluable. you can even just choose to remember the good times

Greenwald can only withhold judgement of Iran's dismal human rights record or Syria's campaign of sectarian slaughter by affirming that Persians and Arabs are simply not culturally suited to the liberties and protections derived from Enlightenment thought to which Westerners rightly feel they are entitled. Instead, they must be perceived as childlike, simple and sometimes savage peoples whose cultural proclivities demonstrate a preference for subjugation, violence, injustice and fear over liberty and peace, and who are incapable of understanding egalitarian concepts of human rights due to their uniquely 'Western' character.

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (seven years ago) link

maybe the best domestic blogger critic of america but he's so outclassed by like every other geopolitical blogger

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (seven years ago) link

the blue and the dim of feet and lips and buttlips
i would spread my lips on those buttlips

i think that's pretty otm. i've felt for a long time like there's a racism of low expectations at play in post-colonialism + cultural relativism xxp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:44 (seven years ago) link

like stephen walt is hardly a friend of israel but he's so much more worth reading than greenwald. he actually writes new material and has insights that seem valuable. and he doesn't rant.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (seven years ago) link

nah, some cultures obv suck

― Mordy , Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:37 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark

agreed, for example the racist settler state known as Israel

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (seven years ago) link

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

― goole, Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:40 PM (3 minutes ago)

ha wait, who's the relativist now?

gg has said on numerous occasions that he focuses on the US because he's a US citizen. seems pretty simple

omg is Trevor Phillips Glenn Greenwald?

Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 00:22 (five months ago) link

wouldnt be out of character

no (Left), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 00:26 (five months ago) link

I think all of you might be esby

silby, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 00:59 (five months ago) link

im esby

lumen (esby), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 01:14 (five months ago) link

bring back brodie

I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 01:14 (five months ago) link

bring back banaka

mh, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 01:24 (five months ago) link

the most absurd part of this is that trump eventually did 'collude' with a foreign power -- ukraine! and he was impeached for that! so it was all completely for nothing.

― treeship., Monday, May 18, 2020 2:30 PM (two days ago)

glenn greenwald also opposed impeaching trump, as i'm sure he'd be happy to explain in a different 2-hour youtube video

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 01:33 (five months ago) link

Especially when she concludes it with a ghoulish barb against Snowden of all people.

Snowden’s a sanctimonious prick “of all people”

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 02:35 (five months ago) link

or men who say good female bloggers are "in bed" with sources

Oh, come the everloving fuck on. He said "in bed with US intelligence agencies."

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 05:33 (five months ago) link

YouTuber Lindsay Ellis said something tangential about GG the other day on Twitter, and he popped into her mentions like Beetlejuice and accused her of being either illiterate or a liar. He spends an inordinate amount of time name-searching himself so he can look for opportunities.

Bougy! Bougie! Bougé! (Eliza D.), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 13:42 (five months ago) link

🖼
YouTuber Lindsay Ellis said something tangential about GG the other day on Twitter, and he popped into her mentions like Beetlejuice and accused her of being either illiterate or a liar. He spends an inordinate amount of time name-searching himself so he can look for opportunities.


It’s boring quarantined in the jungle but you’d think the dozens of dogs would keep him busy.

Boring, Maryland, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 13:53 (five months ago) link

can we get him to post here

turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 14:54 (five months ago) link

new-era Google metrics makes baiting outsiders really hard :(

Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 15:49 (five months ago) link

But we have a lot master baiters around here

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 16:51 (five months ago) link

some of the very best

Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 18:02 (five months ago) link

Cool, cool: Richard Esposito, co-author of the Intercept story that landed Reality Winner in federal prison, is now the head of the NYPD's press office.

A co-author of a controversial report at The Intercept that landed its source in prison now works as the head of the New York Police Department’s press office.

The former journalist, Richard Esposito, had embedded for a long period inside the NYPD, developing close ties to US police agencies that were clear before The Intercept chose to work with him. However, the news website apparently did not see Esposito’s cop-friendly behavior as disqualifying or even suspicious.

Esposito and his longtime friend and colleague, Matthew Cole, a full-time reporter at The Intercept, were co-authors of a 2017 report on National Security Agency allegations of Russian meddling in the 2016 US presidential election. The reporters disclosed sensitive information to US government agencies, which led to the outing of their confidential source, former NSA contractor Reality Winner, and her eventual imprisonment for five years.

Although this scandalous story was the only piece Esposito published at The Intercept, he was somehow assigned an official company email address as well as an author page that has since been removed from the website without explanation.

The same duo, Esposito and Cole, played an integral role in the arrest and imprisonment of another source, CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou, several years before they worked with The Intercept.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 23:54 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

Inevitable.

Should the populist left work with the populist right where they have common ground, or shun them? https://t.co/8QcagioB7Z by @ggreenwald

— The Intercept (@theintercept) June 25, 2020

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 25 June 2020 17:50 (three months ago) link

this is so February

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 25 June 2020 17:53 (three months ago) link

look at that art lol

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:09 (three months ago) link

who are those people

all cats are beautiful (silby), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:37 (three months ago) link

Greenwald in Brazil: the right is evil, they send me and my family death threats, they murdered a black trans woman politician friend of ours.
Greenwald in the US: maybe Steve Bannon is cool?

Rik Waller-Bridge (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:39 (three months ago) link

a few comments make the duh point that greenwald spends so much time deriding dems for compromising with untrustworthy republicans, instead of his preferred strategy which is apparently compromising with untrustworthy republicans

Mordy, Thursday, 25 June 2020 19:05 (three months ago) link

You know what you never hear discussed on the right? Calls to form an alliance with socialists. They’re busy trying to crush us while we debate whether or not we should be friendlier to them.

— Sam Sacks (@SamSacks) June 25, 2020

Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 25 June 2020 19:40 (three months ago) link

Does Greenwald think he’s a member of the “Populist Left”?

Boring, Maryland, Thursday, 25 June 2020 20:08 (three months ago) link

yes

Rik Waller-Bridge (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 June 2020 20:09 (three months ago) link

congrats to GG for getting a trump retweet

mookieproof, Sunday, 5 July 2020 05:50 (three months ago) link

two months pass...

I'm not defending anyone when I say that I'm not sure what the "news value" is in revisiting when and how they fucked up, which I thought was pretty immediately clear?

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Monday, 14 September 2020 11:26 (one month ago) link

In the world of the New York Times, a story doesn't exist until the New York Times covers it. There's your value.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 14 September 2020 11:27 (one month ago) link

that the intercept hugely fucked up was instantly clear, not sure that the details of how emerged immediately tho: when did cole become a police spokesman? beyond smith saying "i obtained" the piece doesn't tell us when the internal discussion came into NYT hands -- maybe it's belated but has this internal discussion been out in the world previously? if not then it's a story

(unperson's point abt the nyt's self-absorbed attitude to newsworthiness is also on point of course, but it's also just a practical feature in the landscape until that particular hegemony is dismantled)

less abstractly: if yr basic political pitch is radical transparency -- which was a v potent pitch and totally remains a worthwhile aim imo -- then rival outlets with contrasting politics will always be eager to publish stories abt how the process of running yr magazine dedicated to radical transparency will (best version) distort and (worst version) radically betray this aim. as with assange (generous reading), the actors delivering radical transparency have often been endlessly deeply fvcking naive politically, abt who can manipulate who and how (and i don't really mean putin here) (or indeed trump and the GOP). it's a big bad gameable world: if you take on the big dark expert forces in making idealism gameable, scornful individualist libetrarian swagger is really only going to take you so far before they really really get up in yr shit and this is what happened here

also: as an exampe of "let's not but we'll say we did", the snowden file getting shuttered -- the radical privatisation of public information -- is indeed "old news" but it's also news barely covered then or now -- and it only gets the tiniest sideswipe here (bcz both sides have too big an interest in its non-coverage)

mark s, Monday, 14 September 2020 11:56 (one month ago) link

(sorry: esposito is now the police spokesman, not cole)

mark s, Monday, 14 September 2020 12:27 (one month ago) link

Another of its highest-profile hires, the former Topic.com editor Anna Holmes, who left in 2019, told me: “I’ve always admired First Look Media’s stated commitment to free speech, transparency and speaking truth to power. So in that spirit I’ll say this: My tenure there was creatively rewarding — it was also personally and professionally demoralizing.”

daaaamn

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 14 September 2020 13:12 (one month ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EisIu4ZX0AQpiig?format=jpg&name=small

mookieproof, Thursday, 24 September 2020 15:18 (four weeks ago) link

*hits poppers*

Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Thursday, 24 September 2020 15:21 (four weeks ago) link

*galaxy brain throbs*

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 24 September 2020 15:35 (four weeks ago) link

*mounts a Nazi*

turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Thursday, 24 September 2020 16:17 (four weeks ago) link

two weeks pass...

What the fuck is it with this guy at this point

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 04:39 (one week ago) link

Glenn Greenwald's savage takedown of @ggreenwald. pic.twitter.com/SvXOR4OUY5

— Ken Tremendous (@KenTremendous) October 12, 2020

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 08:02 (one week ago) link

whatever that link is ain't working on my end

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 13:11 (one week ago) link

greenwald claiming in the replies of that tweet that it was actually "satire"... okay, buddy.

turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 13:21 (one week ago) link

I was more talking about Greenwald's anti-anti-anti-Bidenist tweet insisting that no actually we SHOULD be grilling Joe B. on his sinister court-packing scheme, why is the press going so easy on him

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 16:38 (one week ago) link

But that one was bad too

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 16:38 (one week ago) link

is that one a joke too

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 16:45 (one week ago) link

glenn greenwald: comedian

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 16:45 (one week ago) link

but doctor -- i am glenn greenwald

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 16:52 (one week ago) link

the tweets of a clown

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 16:54 (one week ago) link

I was more talking about Greenwald's anti-anti-anti-Bidenist tweet insisting that no actually we SHOULD be grilling Joe B. on his sinister court-packing scheme, why is the press going so easy on him


Didn’t know he loved fake norms so much.

Boring, Maryland, Tuesday, 13 October 2020 16:55 (one week ago) link

him and fellow comedy genius scott adams should drop a collab, maybe he could co-write some new dilford comics or something

turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 17:04 (one week ago) link

Blind pig, acorn...

If it’s really true that the US Marshals purposely avoided arresting this US citizen on US soil, and chose to shoot and kill him instead without provocation, then everyone involved and responsible should be prosecuted. https://t.co/VYMrBDFN1K

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) October 15, 2020

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 15 October 2020 20:52 (one week ago) link


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