A Foreign Language Vocabulary Thread: In Which We Look For Things That Have A Different, Non-Cognate Name in English/French/Spanish/German.

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Maybe we'll throw in Italian too.

Always kind of surprised by this, although I only have found a few.

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:38 (eight years ago) link

you really gonna make me google "non-cognate" on a sunday afternoon?

scott seward, Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:40 (eight years ago) link

Sorry, skot. Took me years to start this thread because I couldn't think of a non-awkward way to title it and I still haven't.

First one is

English: the shark
French: le requin
Spanish: el tiburón
German: der Haifisch
Italian: lo squalo

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:44 (eight years ago) link

Second one is:

English: the butterfly
French: le papillon
Spanish: la mariposa
German: der Schmetterling
Italian: la farfalla

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:46 (eight years ago) link

rabbit / lapin / kaninchen / conejo (although the italian is similar)

hey, corsano's no pussy, dude (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:47 (eight years ago) link

Finding words that are non-cognate in all these languages at once will be tough.

scott, cognates are words that clearly and obviously share the same root and a common structure, such as incredible (en) and incroyable (fr). Non-cognates would be words like god (en) and dei (fr) which don't.

Aimless, Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:47 (eight years ago) link

english: squirrel
spanish: ardilla
french: écureuil
german: dichhörnchen
dutch: eekhoorn
italian: scoiattolo

scott seward, Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:54 (eight years ago) link

yah, got it on the cognate. my brain is cobwebby.

scott seward, Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:54 (eight years ago) link

did i do it right?

scott seward, Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:55 (eight years ago) link

^^^i sense maria lurking

железобетонное очко (mookieproof), Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:56 (eight years ago) link

Yes, thanks, guys, great work. But as far as "rabbit," which I had thought of before but forgotten, aren't "conejo" and "Kaninchen" related? Also, skot, did you do that yourself or did it come from Maria? (ha, xp)

I wanted this to be the third one, but I don't think it works
English: the bat
French: le chauve-souri
Spanish: el murciélago
German: die Fledermaus
Italian: il pipistrello

The middle three mean, "the bald mouse," "the blind mouse," and "the flying mouse," which might work except the "mur" in "murciélago" seems to be related to the "Maus" in Fledermaus.

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:58 (eight years ago) link

English: the butterfly
French: le papillon
Spanish: la mariposa
German: der Schmetterling
Italian: la farfalla

interesting etymology of 'butterfly' in different languages. bowtie pasta is "farfalle" in Italian.

garfield drops some dank n' dirty dubz at 2am (unregistered), Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:58 (eight years ago) link

kaninchen seems to be from the latin too

hey, corsano's no pussy, dude (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 24 February 2013 19:59 (eight years ago) link

some of this is probably because there were different vulgar/classical names like equus and caballus

hey, corsano's no pussy, dude (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:00 (eight years ago) link

ego sum mercator

markers, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:01 (eight years ago) link

grumio est in villa

markers, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:01 (eight years ago) link

"Squirrel" doesn't quite work because it is related to "écureuil"

Dang, I knew i would mess up a gender and some spelling it is "la chauve-souris

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:02 (eight years ago) link

us i o um o i orum is os is

markers, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:02 (eight years ago) link

a ae ae am a ae arum is as is

markers, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:02 (eight years ago) link

Bat was the first I thought of, but yeah, it seems that it's not quite there.

emil.y, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:03 (eight years ago) link

maria suggested it! but i looked them up!

scott seward, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:05 (eight years ago) link

English: Wagtail
French: Bergeronnette
German: Bachstelze
Spanish: Aguzanieves
Italian: Ballerina

I think that works.

Head Cheerleader, Homecoming Queen and part-time model (ShariVari), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:06 (eight years ago) link

interesting etymology of 'butterfly' in different languages. bowtie pasta is "farfalle" in Italian.
otm. Always liked this word for 'butterfly'

sommerfugl Norwegian
“summerfly” (or is it “summerbird,” as a German “Vogel”” = “bird“?)

The second fact might have helped Wolf Blitzer lessen his defeat against Andy Richter on "Jeopardy!"

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:06 (eight years ago) link

No that was a different kind of pasta.

Don't think I ever heard of a wagtail, but that looks like a keeper. I see some other words listed in the Italian dictionary but even so none look anything like anything else.

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:11 (eight years ago) link

I think I've got another that I've finally found this weekend, but I've gotta go do something right this second. Sorry for the suspense.

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:12 (eight years ago) link

english: offal
french: abats
german: innereien
spanish: menudencias
italian: frattaglie
romanian măruntaie
greek: entósthia
swedish: slaktbiprodukter

scott seward, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:13 (eight years ago) link

english word offal probably comes from the dutch word afval.

i did that one all by myself!

scott seward, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:15 (eight years ago) link

you really gonna make me google "non-cognate" on a sunday afternoon?

― scott seward, Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:40 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

little-known original line in the Rascals' "Groovin'".

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:16 (eight years ago) link

offal in hebrew: psolet

nostormo, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:19 (eight years ago) link

he second fact might have helped Wolf Blitzer lessen his defeat against Andy Richter on "Jeopardy!"

walked, at shoulder, down the street, you weenie

you couldn't tell penne from fetuccini

garfield drops some dank n' dirty dubz at 2am (unregistered), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:24 (eight years ago) link

do you think there's a cutoff date when no newer words can have this property?

Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:28 (eight years ago) link

I think it's interesting that animal names in particular seem resistant to Latinization. (Is this true of flora, too?) Maybe because they were important words to rural/agricultural life, where people remained illiterate for centuries after the spread of Romance languages?

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:31 (eight years ago) link

English: grouse
French: lagopède
Spanish: urogallo
German: Meckern

garfield drops some dank n' dirty dubz at 2am (unregistered), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:33 (eight years ago) link

& Italian: tetraonidi

garfield drops some dank n' dirty dubz at 2am (unregistered), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:33 (eight years ago) link

But as far as "rabbit," which I had thought of before but forgotten, aren't "conejo" and "Kaninchen" related?

Yep. English has a cognate for this as well, which is "coney". So bear in mind that if you're looking to find something with no cognates in those five languages, you have to be aware of related terms. A bit of semantic drift in cognates is to be expected.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:49 (eight years ago) link

does 'pimp' work?
I don't trust google translate -- i thought pimp was 'mec' but it says 'souteneur'

Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 20:50 (eight years ago) link

Thought "mec" was just slang for "guy," originally from Arabic, I think. Think the the word you want is "maquereau," which also means "mackerel."

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:21 (eight years ago) link

If I could cheat by swapping French for Finnish and Polish, the word for "German" works here:

English: German
Spanish: alemán
German: Deutsch
Italian: tedesco
Polish: Niemiecki
Finnish: Saksa

Josefa, Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:25 (eight years ago) link

If "mec" isn't slangy enough you can always use verlan and say it backwards to get "keum"

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:28 (eight years ago) link

Italian: tedesco
Polish: Niemiecki

Always wondered where 'tedesco' came from, if maybe the word was related to 'Deutsch.' Think the Polish word like the similar Russian word for the Germans means something like "those who can't speak."

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:32 (eight years ago) link

And yeah, 'coney.' Presumably at one point Coney Island was overrun with rabbits.

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:33 (eight years ago) link

i only know 'mec' because james lipton from the actor's studio was briefly a pimp in france.

maybe 'mack' comes from 'maquereau'?

Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:36 (eight years ago) link

Always wondered where 'tedesco' came from, if maybe the word was related to 'Deutsch.'

Apparently you're right. From a language message board I get the explanation that "theodiscus" was a German dialectal word meaning something like "of the people," first cited in 786 AD and which later evolved into Deutsch (German), tedesco (Italian), and teuton (French).

Josefa, Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:49 (eight years ago) link

English: boy
French: garcon
German: junge
Italian: ragazzo
Russian: malchik
Spanish: nino

I'm probably too sleepy to think these through properly.

Head Cheerleader, Homecoming Queen and part-time model (ShariVari), Sunday, 24 February 2013 21:53 (eight years ago) link

re: boy, i looked up 'cowboy' and couldn't find one for german, which seems odd.

Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:11 (eight years ago) link

Old Shatterhand?

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:16 (eight years ago) link

Cowboy is Cowboy in German.

Josefa, Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:17 (eight years ago) link

Hut is German for hat. Pizza Hut chose not to change its name when they expanded into Germany, so it's known there as Pizza Hat.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:19 (eight years ago) link

'Boy' looks good. thanks, ShariVari. iirc, Danish, Swedish and Norwegian all have a different word for this. Is "child" related to "Kind"? If not, then that also should work.

Thanks to everybody else as well- I was afraid this thread would end up a barren Bergmanesque howl into the void on a dreary winter Sunday aka What You Talkin Bout, Willis? but it has shaped up pretty nicely. Now back to my errands.

Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:25 (eight years ago) link

oh 'nightmare' seemed close except for the mar part of 'cauchemar'

Philip Nunez, Sunday, 24 February 2013 22:36 (eight years ago) link

But you can get there with pen!

English: pen
German: Stift
Spanish: bolígrafo
Portuguese: caneta
French: stylo

Italian "penna" being obviously out of the running, Portuguese steps up. The French word comes from English "stylograph" as does the related Spanish "estilógrafo" but "bolígrafo" wasn't borrowed but coined. And I guess if we really wanted to use Italian's "penna" we could go for the British English "biro" instead of "pen"!

erry red flag (f. hazel), Friday, 14 July 2017 17:14 (three years ago) link

English: knickers
French: culotte
Spanish: bragas
German: Schlüpfer
Portuguese: Calcinhas

Alba, Friday, 14 July 2017 18:54 (three years ago) link

Great thread to stumble on!

IT Negozio
E Shop
G Laden
FR Atelier
SP Tienda

wtev, Sunday, 16 July 2017 10:21 (three years ago) link

I forgot to add the Italian knickers: mutandine!

Alba, Sunday, 16 July 2017 10:39 (three years ago) link

english: wren
french: roitelet
italian: scricciolo
spanish: reyezuelo
portuguese: carriça
german: zaunkönig (means fenceking!)
dutch: winterkoninkje (winter-king, so overlaps w/german i guess)
danish: gærdesmutte
welsh: dryw
finnish: peukaloinen

french, spanish and italian are maybe cognates soundwise tho they don't look it by eye

mark s, Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:33 (three years ago) link

english: witch
french: sorcière
italian: strega
spanish: bruja (portuguese: bruxa)
german: hexe (dutch/danish: heks)
welsh: wrach
finnish: noita

mark s, Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:43 (three years ago) link

english: lump (german: klumpen) (welsh: lwmp)
french: bosse
italian: grumo
spanish: terrón
portuguese: nódulo
dutch: brok
finnish: kyhmy

mark s, Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:55 (three years ago) link

E Billow
F Onduler
G Bauschen
I Flutto
SP Ola

wtev, Monday, 17 July 2017 05:53 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

Great work last month!

Came to post about an amusing German word I just learned is

der Bubikopf

which means
1) A bob haircut- German wikipedia features a picture of Louise Brooks
2) The plant Soleirolia soleirolii, which has all kinds of names in English

Wondering what amusing names that plant and haircut have in other languages

There is also

der Bubikragen - the Peter Pan collar, wonder what other picturesque names it might have

When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 20 August 2017 15:42 (three years ago) link

E Billow
F Onduler
G Bauschen
I Flutto
SP Ola

Also recently learned that the English (and Dutch) word water is etymologically related to the Latin "unda" and the Greek "hudor" (and the Russian "voda")

When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 20 August 2017 15:50 (three years ago) link

Earlier mention of water itt:

Hmm, so how do I interpret the colors for the etymology map of, say, water? Because "eau," "agua," "water/wasser/etc." are correspond to PIE?

― Matt Groening's Cousin (Leee), Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM (three years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There are three PIE roots meaning "water" from which contemporary languages derive their terms for water, and each color corresponds to one of them. The shades of each color refer (I am guessing) to terms that have younger common ancestors that ultimately go back to the PIE root.

― erry red flag (f. hazel), Monday, November 11, 2013 12:00 PM (three years ago) Bookmark

When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 20 August 2017 15:56 (three years ago) link

english: lump (german: klumpen) (welsh: lwmp)
french: bosse
italian: grumo
spanish: terrón
portuguese: nódulo
dutch: brok
finnish: kyhmy

Dammit, French!

english: hideous (german: Scheußlich) (welsh: Yn wych)
french: hideux
italian: orrendo
spanish: repulsivo
portuguese: medonho
dutch: afschuwelijk
finnish: hirveä

Hideous Lump, Monday, 21 August 2017 02:40 (three years ago) link

five months pass...

http://languagehat.com/butterfly/

Some Dusty in Here (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 3 February 2018 03:17 (three years ago) link

eleven months pass...

A fun etymology-related game I have been playing lately is to find one of the legion of lists of "untranslatable" words a la this one (which has lovely illustrations):

https://ellafrancessanders.com/untranslatable-words-from-other-cultures/

and the try and find English translations for as many of them as I can, ideally single-word, by looking at rarely used or archaic terms... or simply starting from the assumption that nothing is truly untranslatable between human languages and being poetically obstinate.

for example, the aforementioned list has the Swedish mångata, "the glimmering, road-like reflection that the moon creates on water" which in English is... moonglade! Which the OED first attests back in 1867.

I find a bit of googling the untranslatable words to be helpful to establish they really mean what the lists say they do, some are just flat-out wrong.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 31 January 2019 23:14 (two years ago) link

and then, not and the...

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 31 January 2019 23:15 (two years ago) link

Oh, that is a cool endeavour. Please post more if you're up for it.

emil.y, Thursday, 31 January 2019 23:16 (two years ago) link

We have a Finnish word for the same concept as mångata too, it's "kuunsilta", literally "moon's bridge".

Tuomas, Thursday, 31 January 2019 23:24 (two years ago) link

i love it!! moonglade!

also reminds me of the grant hart song
you're the moonglade, but you're not the moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTH4Zu8gleA

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 1 February 2019 00:43 (two years ago) link

Japanese: Komorebi
This is the word the Japanese have for when sunlight filters through the trees - the interplay between the light and the leaves

- surely this is 'dappling'

frame casual (dog latin), Friday, 1 February 2019 01:18 (two years ago) link

ooh, excellent idea LL!

along those lines, there is komorebi (木漏れ日) "sunlight that filters through the leaves of trees".

for this I would go with sun-dappled, which is an adjective and not a noun but brings us the same visceral image:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQbm2L9hKSs

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 1 February 2019 01:29 (two years ago) link

(haha, xpost!)

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 1 February 2019 01:29 (two years ago) link

what about pencil?
pencil, en
crayon, fr
lapiz, es
matita, it
bleistift, de

― Jibe, Wednesday, April 24, 2013 6:53 PM (four years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink


Dutch: potlood.

nathom, Friday, 1 February 2019 10:05 (two years ago) link

Could the Indonesian 'jayus' be… an 'anti-joke'?

pomenitul, Friday, 1 February 2019 11:25 (two years ago) link

On second thought, 'anti-joke' adds intent to the equation, so it's not quite the same thing.

pomenitul, Friday, 1 February 2019 11:38 (two years ago) link

En:
Fr: taille-crayon
Es: sacapuntas
It: affilacoltelli
De:Spitzer

Your dad's Carlos Boozer and you keep him alive (fionnland), Friday, 1 February 2019 12:29 (two years ago) link

Hit enter too bloody soon, English is sharpener, unsurprisingly following on from pencils above

Your dad's Carlos Boozer and you keep him alive (fionnland), Friday, 1 February 2019 12:30 (two years ago) link

Actually I think pencil sharpener is temperamatita in Italian too

Your dad's Carlos Boozer and you keep him alive (fionnland), Friday, 1 February 2019 12:31 (two years ago) link

The etymology of Italian's matita for pencil is interesting, apparently it's from ematite, or hematite, which they used for writing? Apparently there is a ton of hematite on Elba, compared to the giant graphite deposit found in England in the 16th century... which leads us to (mistakenly) call the stuff in pencils lead!

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 1 February 2019 15:28 (two years ago) link

I always get confusion with that and a certain Tom Jobim lyric.

Only a Factory URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 1 February 2019 17:00 (two years ago) link

hahaha, my first impression of temperamatita was "what? paint killer?"

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 1 February 2019 17:17 (two years ago) link

en: toad - From Middle English tode, toode, tade, tadde, from Old English *tāde, a shortening of tādie, tādiġe (“toad”), of unknown origin, possibly from Proto-Germanic. Cognate with Scots tade, taid, taed, ted (“toad”). Compare also Danish tudse (“toad”), possibly from the same root; also Swedish tåssa, tossa (“toad”), Old English tāxe (“toad”), Old English tosca (“toad”) by contrast.

fr: crapaud - Probably from Frankish *krappō, *krappa (“hook”) (because of a toad’s hooked feet) +‎ -aud. Compare Catalan gripau, Occitan, grapaut.

es: sapo - Unknown, possibly from Iberian, cognate with Basque apo.

it: rospo - Uncertain, possibly of Germanic origin

de: kröte - From Middle High German krotte, kröte, krëte, from Old High German chrota, krota, kreta (“toad”), from Proto-Germanic *krudō, *kredō (“toad”), from Proto-Indo-European *guredʰ- (“toad”). Cognate with Middle Low German krōde (“toad”), dated Dutch krodde (“toad”).

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 1 February 2019 21:59 (two years ago) link

what's the word for toad-sharpener in Italian?

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 1 February 2019 22:11 (two years ago) link

This is very close but slightly unsatisfactory

en: raccoon
sp: mapache
fr: raton laveur
de: Waschbär

because the German and the French both have the idea of washing, and Spanish has the term "oso lavador," not sure which term is more common in Peninsular vs. American Spanish. But we also have

it: procione
pt: guaxinim

Only a Factory URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 9 February 2019 13:10 (two years ago) link

My wife who's from Costa Rica says she's never heard the name "oso lavador", mapache is the only word for raccoon she knows.

In Finnish we call it "pesukarhu", which also means "wash bear". Probably comes from German via Swedish, as raccoons don't live here, so we wouldn't have an "indigenous" word for them.

Tuomas, Sunday, 10 February 2019 11:05 (two years ago) link

six months pass...

en: spats
es: polainas
fr: guêtres
de: Gamaschen

is ruined slightly by French origin of "gaiters" and by the fact that spats are short and gaiters are long, whereas afaik the same word is used for both in other languages, or really only for the long form.

TS: “8:05” vs. “905” (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:52 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

(En) bird
(Es) pájaro
(Fr) oiseau
(De) Vogel
(It) uccello

The Hillbilly Chespirito (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 September 2019 10:18 (one year ago) link

Oiseau and uccello both come from the same Latin word, aucellus.

Tuomas, Thursday, 26 September 2019 11:07 (one year ago) link

Was wondering. But the first four seem to work, I think.

The Hillbilly Chespirito (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 September 2019 11:43 (one year ago) link

Vogel / fowl

Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Thursday, 26 September 2019 14:45 (one year ago) link

Okay, thanks but “fowl” and “bird” are not related.

The Hillbilly Chespirito (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 September 2019 14:51 (one year ago) link

four months pass...

Think maybe I found another, if my Zing search worked properly

TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 30 January 2020 01:07 (one year ago) link

Not a 'thing' per se depending on your definition but…

E: now
F: maintenant
S: ahora
G: jetzt

Bonus Romanian: acum

pomenitul, Thursday, 30 January 2020 08:41 (one year ago) link

four months pass...

Inspired by Learned League.

E: ugly
F: laid
I: brutto
S: feo
G: hässlich

Swoler Bear (Leee), Saturday, 30 May 2020 17:39 (one year ago) link

E: duck
F: canard
S: pato
G: ente
I: anatra

Maybe ente and anatra are related?

Joey Corona (Euler), Saturday, 30 May 2020 20:58 (one year ago) link

Apparently so, if you go as far back as proto-Indo-European, which seems kind of tenuous anyway.

pomenitul, Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:00 (one year ago) link

This is the one I was thinking of
E: room
F: pièce
S: habitación
G: Zimmer

Which is somewhat unsatisfactory because of the chambers and salons I am avoiding.

Ernani and the Professor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:06 (one year ago) link

Yeah I think there are metaphysical problems there of what is a room

Joey Corona (Euler), Sunday, 31 May 2020 06:52 (one year ago) link

five months pass...

English: pillow
German: Kissen
French: oreiller
Spanish: almohada
Italian: cuscino
Portuguese: travesseiro
Welsh: gobennydd

― Alba, Friday, July 14, 2017 5:51 AM (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink

this one occurred to me today.

although "guanciale" might have been a better, if slightly awkward, choice for the italian — since both "Kissen" and "cuscino" seem to come via old french "coussin"

budo jeru, Wednesday, 18 November 2020 17:17 (six months ago) link


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