rolling American football death spiral thread

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I ask as a curious observer, not as a partisan of any kind: how much longer can a game that is being revealed as fundamentally unsafe survive in a litigious culture?

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/13/3179926/dan-le-batard-jason-taylors-pain.html

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread-kickoffs/should-nfl-eliminate-kickoffs-pursuit-safer-game

(panda) (gun) (wrapped gift) (silby), Thursday, 17 January 2013 02:55 (eight years ago) link

The NFL is connected to untold billions of dollars, current players are aware of the risks - I don't think lawsuits are going to bring down the NFL soon.

Parents not letting kids play football, OTOH, could eventually do some damage.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:14 (eight years ago) link

cigarettes are fundamentally unsafe and lotsa people still smoke, after decades of this being public knowledge. I think we could be at or near 'peak football' in some ways - who knows what's gonna happen to cable tv, will middle class parents be less likely to let their kids play hs football? yeah I think that's likely.

but will people still watch other peoples kids get hurt? sure. the sport that's grown the most over the last decade involves people kicking the shit out of each other. there isn't even a ball, they just kick the shit out of each other. it is very clearly not good for your health. I can see football losing a lot of its pure apple pie american charm as it gets more and more associated w/ injuries and less w/ the charming white american quarterback throwing a touchdown in a movie...but that doesn't mean it won't be a multibillion dollar industry for decades to come.

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:16 (eight years ago) link

i'm thinking this is going to be a pretty boring story in the end...slow evolution over 30 years into a v. different game that is much less violent

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:19 (eight years ago) link

Outside of sports, American human capital and productivity probably rise. No football Saturdays on college campuses means less binge drinking, more studying, better grades, smarter future adults. Losing thousands of college players and hundreds of pro players might produce a few more doctors or engineers. Plus, talented coaches and general managers would gravitate toward management positions in American industry.

lol Grantland

Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:22 (eight years ago) link

oh my lord who do they think they're kidding

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:23 (eight years ago) link

no football?? how in the world am i going to binge drink now????

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:24 (eight years ago) link

there was some study that suggested that grades went down when your football program was doing well

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:24 (eight years ago) link

i'm sure that's correct but the gas-huffing grantland author seems to assume that ppl won't find something to replace football with.

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:25 (eight years ago) link

but stretching that to 'it will reshape american productivity' is obv dumb. the author is tyler cowen and he is kinda a troll ftr.

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:26 (eight years ago) link

well lord knows we do need more people vying for "management positions in american industry"

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:27 (eight years ago) link

in his foodie economist book that came out last year he suggested not going to restaurants that have attractive women in them

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:28 (eight years ago) link

hahahah that sentence is so beautiful i am not even going to investigate further

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:28 (eight years ago) link

i think one thing that's out there to "save" football as it stands now is a breakthrough in helmets that substantially lowers head injuries. whether or not that's possible i have no idea.

i have started to think tho that the "parents will stop their kids from playing football" thing is a bit overplayed. there's still riches in football, especially for poor families. maybe some multi-sport high school athletes will choose another sport, but if you're talking about poor kids where football is ingrained in the community (like in south florida) and has a tradition of being an easy way of getting out of a shitty situation... i don't know. you have to have a specific size to play basketball, and baseball is such an intensive sport.

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:32 (eight years ago) link

the magic helmet basically isn't possible

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:36 (eight years ago) link

yeah

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:39 (eight years ago) link

i remember reading once that there's drastically less head injuries in rugby because you have to learn how to tackle without using your head. in football, the helmet gives the feeling of invincibility, so the helmet itself is probably a misnomer anyway

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:40 (eight years ago) link

yeah iirc some articles suggest that the existing super-helmets encouraged the trend of head-weaponization in the first place (that I hear exists, I seriously don't watch football or have any idea what they do with their heads. have been watching Friday Night Lights tho)

(panda) (gun) (wrapped gift) (silby), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:42 (eight years ago) link

that's why I'm also kinda skeptical of cad's 'game evolves into something really different for safety reasons' - like marginal safety improvements just don't change the reason why people get concussions when playing this game and aren't gonna make a dent in the rate it happens.

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:42 (eight years ago) link

im really thinking more significant rule changes than marginal safety improvements

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:44 (eight years ago) link

i think the most realistic change is something that prevents players from playing through injuries. if the NFL has to pai out multiple billions of dollars after all these suits are settled, they would have a real compelling reason to significantly strengthen their rules/regulations so that no player can talk his way out of sitting due to a concussion.

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:44 (eight years ago) link

well the big problem goes beyond existing helmets or this helmet or no helmet - it's that concussions happen because your brain is hitting your skull, not because something is hitting your head

xp

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:44 (eight years ago) link

as an aside do we have the slightest idea how many head injuries actually happen in rugby? i bet we do not.

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:45 (eight years ago) link

i genuinely think football will evolve into a pass-dominant touch-tackle sport

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:46 (eight years ago) link

yeah I guess I can see that path as a lot more viable

it helps that it's what people like too

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:46 (eight years ago) link

yeah i could see that

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:47 (eight years ago) link

Football would be a lot safer if they just replaced tackling with tickling.

fiscal cliff huxtable (latebloomer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:54 (eight years ago) link

lol

(panda) (gun) (wrapped gift) (silby), Thursday, 17 January 2013 05:22 (eight years ago) link

I think some are greatly overestimating how much the average fan gives a shit. Most football fans I know rationalize it as some "they knew what they were getting into" BS. The real test will be whether the NFL can survive an ongoing parade of lawsuits, but if they do, I don't think the fanbase is going anywhere.

These stories keep leaving a really bad taste in my mouth though, I feel a shameful complicity in just having watched the game...

NINO CARTER, Thursday, 17 January 2013 05:30 (eight years ago) link

i remember reading once that there's drastically less head injuries in rugby because you have to learn how to tackle without using your head. in football, the helmet gives the feeling of invincibility, so the helmet itself is probably a misnomer anyway

― J0rdan S., Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:40 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In football you can play to the whistle and have 30 seconds to recover or leave the field, so in that timeframe all manner of violence can occur. Rugby has (more) sustained play so you couldn't have that kind of behavior or half the field would have injured dudes on it.

Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 17 January 2013 05:49 (eight years ago) link

back before helmets people were getting killed in football all the time so I'm skeptical that they're a net negative

Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 17 January 2013 05:51 (eight years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6fejWutXCk

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 17 January 2013 06:46 (eight years ago) link

I've never heard about pre-helmet deaths - AFAICT only one NFL player has ever died on the field.

i think the most realistic change is something that prevents players from playing through injuries. if the NFL has to pai out multiple billions of dollars after all these suits are settled, they would have a real compelling reason to significantly strengthen their rules/regulations so that no player can talk his way out of sitting due to a concussion.

Focusing on injuries (new concussion rules) has kind of been Goodell's dodge - the constant low-level head trauma of linemen and running backs is dangerous as well.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 17 January 2013 07:16 (eight years ago) link

"In 1905, there was roughly one-fifth the number of college football players as there are today, yet, 18 were killed and 159 severely injured in that one year alone. "

Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 17 January 2013 07:51 (eight years ago) link

sounds like a good way for weasel coaches to get extra timeouts

frogbs, Thursday, 17 January 2013 14:45 (eight years ago) link

the solution is very simpe, guys: everybody should watch basketball instead

乒乓, Thursday, 17 January 2013 14:51 (eight years ago) link

Football in 1905 didn't look much like today's game. What about 1945 or 1950?

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:00 (eight years ago) link

I should think that the NFL is in no immediate danger of being litigated out of existance. After all, US courts tolerated the buying and selling of baseball players as chattel for a century. Almost 100% of modern american football players would be avid to sign away any and all rights they might have for redress of injuries, just for the chance to play in the NFL.

Aimless, Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:04 (eight years ago) link

kind of interesting to think of all the brain damage O.J. Simpson was probably living with for the last 30 years

frogbs, Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:33 (eight years ago) link

Football in 1905 didn't look much like today's game. What about 1945 or 1950?

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, January 17, 2013 1:00 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

football in 1905 didn't look much like today's game because the forward pass was invented to stop people from dying so much

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:35 (eight years ago) link

I think the comparable sport here has to be boxing. It's not dead, but it's nowhere near as popular as it was last century, and I think football will head that way as people get turned off by the dawning understanding of the physical toll. (I'd like to see radio/tv numbers for how popular boxing has been over the last century.)

Jah Creature (WilliamC), Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:47 (eight years ago) link

boxing was never as popular as football is right now tho

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:52 (eight years ago) link

even in boxing's heyday i don't think it compares to football right now

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:53 (eight years ago) link

it's hard to compare eras like that regardless

but I do think that, the two paths are either cad's high scoring touch football or wmc's game that's viewed as less family friendly and more masculine a la boxing etc. like your mom won't be organizing the super bowl party.

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:57 (eight years ago) link

two other things that affect its future are going to be what happens to streaming video / cable / broadcast advertising etc and what happens to the american university system over the coming decades.

iatee, Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:05 (eight years ago) link

The biggest factors in the demise of boxing were first, overexposure, next widespread corruption, and lastly, unbridled greed that broke up the "world championship" titles into fragments. The NFL is flirting heavily with overexposure, but there is no hint atm that the games are fixed or the refs have been bought, and the NFL's central management is keeping conflict within the league from causing overt problems.

Aimless, Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:34 (eight years ago) link

Aimless OTM. I don't think brutality means a thing.

MMA has picked up ground on boxing because the UFC acts as the central body with the true champs, doesn't protect up and comers to the degree of boxing, etc., despite being viscerally more brutal. (though, actually, I'd rather have my kid take up MMA than boxing - less dangerous to his or her brain).

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 17 January 2013 21:41 (eight years ago) link

oops, didn't edit - I don't think brutality was key in boxing's decline - that goes mostly to corruption and the way corruption screwed up the heavyweights. Plus better money in other sports and a cultural emphasis on team sports.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 17 January 2013 21:42 (eight years ago) link

football in 1905 didn't look much like today's game because the forward pass was invented to stop people from dying so much

Should have been the forward kick.

Speaking of football, I wonder if they limited substitutions like in soccer, would that change on-field behavior?

Canaille help you (Michael White), Thursday, 17 January 2013 21:50 (eight years ago) link

Ditka is such a piece of shit, it's impressive he kept such a good public image for so long

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 27 July 2020 16:44 (nine months ago) link

stick to trading your entire draft for one guy, Mikey

Lady Antibody (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 28 July 2020 03:03 (nine months ago) link

https://imgur.com/gallery/Nfphh2U

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 2 August 2020 01:49 (nine months ago) link

Is there a thread to talk about what a complete and total piece of anti-Semite shit former Chiefs RB Larry Johnson is?

Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 2 August 2020 19:59 (nine months ago) link

I am starting to doubt that this season is gonna happen

frogbs, Sunday, 2 August 2020 21:34 (nine months ago) link

The NFL owners would just declare massive losses and write them off their taxes over half a decade or so. The players would take massive losses, too, but for most of them it would be lost salary, not business losses. If it cut into the NFLPA pension fund, that might hurt the most vulnerable of ex-players. Since I'm not a fan, for me it's not about missing the games. I wouldn't.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Monday, 3 August 2020 00:04 (nine months ago) link

the Packers' decision not to draft a WR makes more sense now, just grab one next year

frogbs, Monday, 3 August 2020 20:36 (nine months ago) link

DP was told an hour ago that the Big 10 and Pac 12 will cancel their football seasons tomorrow... The ACC and the Big 12 are on the fence.. And the SEC is trying to get teams to join them for a season.

Watch live: https://t.co/sMaeXQkLfl pic.twitter.com/oSUNGMTEqw

— Dan Patrick Show (@dpshow) August 10, 2020

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 18:39 (nine months ago) link

college football under quarantine

sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 18:46 (nine months ago) link

tyvmtbo

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 18:57 (nine months ago) link

frogbs at 3:36 3 Aug 20

the Packers' decision not to draft a WR makes more sense now, just grab one next year


loool that's definitely why they did it, such foresight

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 20:32 (nine months ago) link

'murrica NEEDS college football, next thing you know they'll be banning bass fishing and sexually harassing bar cart servers on the golf course

Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 21:22 (nine months ago) link

ums I feel like you're being sarcastic perhaps YOU have a better explanation ?!??

frogbs, Tuesday, 11 August 2020 21:26 (nine months ago) link

they are dumb and had a bad draft

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 21:31 (nine months ago) link

I guess there is too much money involved to just scratch the whole season, but I have a hard time seeing how a spring season is going to work out. Even if the pandemic is over by then, which is very doubtful, the logistics and impacts on other sports seems a huge hurdle to overcome.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 21:38 (nine months ago) link

impacts on other sports?

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 21:40 (nine months ago) link

Overlapping with March Madness, draft eligible players sitting out, scheduling around the other events, etc.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 21:41 (nine months ago) link

I mean, none of those are insurmountable, but I feel like it's not nearly as simple as waving a hand and saying "we'll play in the spring instead".

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 21:42 (nine months ago) link

yeah agreed but there's so much money at stake they'll fuck over whoever or any other sports

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 21:43 (nine months ago) link

They'll merge with the NBA and play footsketball

popeye's arse (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 22:26 (nine months ago) link

Tom Brady ready to start the season in Tampa.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GTkSxvxwL._AC_SY445_.jpg

earlnash, Wednesday, 12 August 2020 21:03 (eight months ago) link

wish I'd placed $1000 on "there is no season"

popeye's arse (Neanderthal), Thursday, 13 August 2020 04:14 (eight months ago) link

two weeks pass...

in this case, the head coach of the UT football team rearranged practice so his players could do this. 💪

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 29 August 2020 17:17 (eight months ago) link

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/vikings-kirk-cousins-says-he-sees-covid-19-as-survival-of-the-fittest/ar-BB18DGNb?ocid=uxbndlbing

“If I get it, I’m gonna ride it out. I’m gonna let nature do its course. Survival-of-the-fittest kind of approach. And just say, if it knocks me out, it knocks me out. I’m going to be OK. You know, even if I die. If I die, I die. I kind of have peace about that.”

frogbs, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 20:26 (eight months ago) link

So, he's saying he'd refuse all supplementary oxygen or other treatment? Because if he does intend to refuse all treatment, then he's just a dumbass. And if that's not what he's saying, then BFD, once he's ill, of course he's ill, just like everyone else ever since the world began, duh.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 20:33 (eight months ago) link

thread delivers

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 21:29 (eight months ago) link

his relatives will call him Dead Cousin(s)

Neanderthal, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 21:40 (eight months ago) link

A cousin once removed

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 21:44 (eight months ago) link

A cousin once removed

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 21:44 (eight months ago) link

Killing yourself to hear “My Own Prison” live

Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 23:21 (eight months ago) link

he's the biggest dork in history

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 23:30 (eight months ago) link

one month passes...

If you were looking to make the best, most humane case against the existence of football, this profile of the 1989 USC LBs — featuring Junior Seau — would be the one. https://t.co/oGmn7fzUZ4

— Joel D. Anderson (@byjoelanderson) October 10, 2020

mookieproof, Saturday, 10 October 2020 20:24 (seven months ago) link

Jfc.

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 11 October 2020 01:21 (seven months ago) link

At the bar tonight we had MSU-Kentucky on one tv and Bama-UM on the other. People kept asking me who I was rooting for and I finally said "I'm rooting for all these guys not to kill themselves in 20 years," which finally freed me from the conversations.

(show hidden tics) (WmC), Sunday, 11 October 2020 04:10 (seven months ago) link

one month passes...

Also Chris Collinsworth was blown away that the women in Pittsburgh had really specific questions about football pic.twitter.com/eskujaRsKn

— gifdsports (@gifdsports) December 3, 2020

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 5 December 2020 22:33 (five months ago) link

Seems like it should be illegal to expose children to football

is right unfortunately (silby), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 16:54 (four months ago) link

raw uncut pig skin

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 16:54 (four months ago) link

also more literally to thread title
https://theathletic.com/news/nfl-playoff-bubble-teams-mandate/T3XU9q8b2gd3

NFL teams will not be allowed to require their players to stay in a bubble-like atmosphere during the postseason, according to a memo sent to teams and obtained by The Athletic on Tuesday.

The memo states that teams may provide a local hotel for players to avoid possible exposure to the virus, but they cannot mandate that players stay at the hotel other than the night before a game.

This news comes one day after NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said that even though distribution of COVID-19 vaccines is beginning in the United States, NFL teams and staff will not be jumping the line for vaccination before the Super Bowl in February.

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 17:11 (four months ago) link

these fkn people

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 19:55 (four months ago) link

i was watching an episode of Harley Quinn where they were holding a gathering of the Legion of Doom and were hosting prospective new members and they announced Roger Goodell as being in attendance and I just lost it.....he really is the worst.

Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 22:09 (four months ago) link

four months pass...

Can there be a impressive form of insanity? Wild story and crazy pictures...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/22/alex-smith-retirement-inside-comeback-tension-with-washington-coaches-daily-cover?utm_source=pocket-newtab

earlnash, Saturday, 1 May 2021 17:17 (one week ago) link

nice leg

lag∞n, Thursday, 6 May 2021 17:27 (five days ago) link


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