Literary Clusterfucks 2013

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Beginning to think maybe a rolling thread might be good. Anyway:

So Alisa Valdes just publishes this memoir about this cowboy of hers and how he's a man's man and now's she's a woman like never before and etc. That link's to Hanna Rosin's review, and she's essentially going "Um...you sure?"

And then Valdes publishes this today.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:15 (six years ago) link

That said, a lot can happen in two years, especially when you’re in a relationship with a man as complicated and volatile as the cowboy.

j., Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:17 (six years ago) link

"what I actually wrote was a handbook for women on how to fall in love with a manipulative, controlling, abusive narcissist."

just what the world needed. like a poke in the eye.

Aimless, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:32 (six years ago) link

jesus

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:35 (six years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FORoSB5JxCU

"Cowboy up."

jim, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:44 (six years ago) link

none of these people are really writers

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, June 4, 2010 1:18 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:49 (six years ago) link

wtf @ that whole story

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:50 (six years ago) link

polo shirt under a jacket, tho

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:50 (six years ago) link

I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy.
You see by my outfit that I'm a cowboy, too.
We see by these outfits that we are all cowboys.
If you buy a cowboy outfit, you can be a cowboy, too.

Aimless, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:50 (six years ago) link

damn nm I just actually read this shit how f'd up

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:07 (six years ago) link

i keep reading her name as alida valli

difficult listening hour, Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:27 (six years ago) link

jesus

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:37 (six years ago) link

I don't know if we do this around here but there's some srs abuse and sexual assault triggers in Ned's second link

autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:47 (six years ago) link

it's probably a good thing that she's posting a picture of her rapist on the internet, now we can watch out for him

autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:51 (six years ago) link

man that's a tough read

goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:51 (six years ago) link

cowboyfucks

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:11 (six years ago) link

How much you wanna bet that Mr Cowboy is gonna be a MRA talking head

Theodora Celery, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:49 (six years ago) link

In 2001, Valdes emailed a 3400-word resignation letter to her superiors at the Los Angeles Times. The letter was widely circulated on the Internet[ and reprinted in the St. Petersburg Times. In the letter she accused the newspaper of racism and discrimination, especially in its synonymous use of the word "latino" with "Spanish-speaker", a practice she equated to genocide.

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:54 (six years ago) link

buzza are you suggesting that alisa valdes is hysterical or otherwise to be dismissed

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:32 (six years ago) link

this is not the elizabeth wurtzel thread

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:35 (six years ago) link

And so, even though I was 43 years old and have Lupus

WHY DO THESE FANFICCY CRAP ROMANCE NOVELISTS ALWAYS HAVE LUPUS OR FIBRO WTF.

Una Stubbs' Tears (Trayce), Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:36 (six years ago) link

hm prob should have read the whole post of hers before making light. still, this shit brings the whole 50 shades bullshit into its awful, true light.

Una Stubbs' Tears (Trayce), Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:46 (six years ago) link

Considering Valdes wrote one of the single most amazing demolitions of a horrible person ever, reading/seeing all this...yeah.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:43 (six years ago) link

okay that was awesome. thanks for linking that Ned

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:48 (six years ago) link

still cannot get over her story with the cowboy. so fucked up. I mean, just that it reads so familiarly, is so sad to me.

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:52 (six years ago) link

this is not the elizabeth wurtzel thread

oh, okay then

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:55 (six years ago) link

“An irresistible, post-feminist Taming of the Shrew. Don’t be scared by the premise. This is not a story about a woman relinquishing her identity. Quite the opposite. It is a riveting tale about how a brilliant, strong-minded woman liberated herself from a dreary, male-bashing, reality-denying feminism.”

– Christina Hoff Sommers, author of The War Against Boys; How Misguided Feminism is Harming Our Young Men

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:24 (six years ago) link

a practice she equated to genocide

ugh fuck this, there is like a 100% chance she was referring to cultural genocide, a term used for decades and not meant to imply the actual murder of a group of people

#guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:25 (six years ago) link

http://www.sptimes.com/News/110300/Floridian/The_language_of_genoc.shtml

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:37 (six years ago) link

buzza idgi are you trying to damage the credibility of the woman who basically just announced she wrote a book about a man who raped her

autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:39 (six years ago) link

apparently so?

it's tough when you can only speak in the form of revived threads

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:53 (six years ago) link

seemed like zachylon wanted the context of the wiki quote so i provided it?

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 08:02 (six years ago) link

thank you for posting it

she does make a clear distinction between the two types of genocide tho she doesn't mark it with "cultural" or something similar. she does 'equate' the two but that's sort of the idea, while the wiki editor left out any of that context and framed it like "she compared this one tiny linguistic choice with the holocaust", fuck wiki

#guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Thursday, 10 January 2013 08:56 (six years ago) link

"literary"

Broken Clock Britain (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 10 January 2013 09:18 (six years ago) link

I have a lot of thoughts about this whole thing and also some feelings but none are organized enough to share except for, Jesus, Lady--at least when I did that I didn't write a book about it.

grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 14:49 (six years ago) link

considering that one of the major goals of feminism was to protect women from the power imbalances present in domestic relationships, it's not super surprising that valdes' paean to how feminism got romance wrong and how there's something special about a real man turned out to be about an abusive asshole. i don't mean to suggest that she deserves what happened in the least, but there is a sort of irony that the very political principles she decried in the context of this relationship turned out to be especially relevant to her needs.

Mordy, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:01 (six years ago) link

xp On second thought that makes it sound like my experience was as extreme as hers: it was not. I also didn't put it in those terms of submission etc or posit that it revealed anything about how feminism has failed us. And I didn't have to jump out of a moving truck although after getting hit by an actual car frankly I'd take another one of those accidents over another of those relationships.

grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:03 (six years ago) link

there is a sort of irony that the very political principles she decried in the context of this relationship turned out to be especially relevant to her needs.

It's not like that's a coincidence. She decried them because she was being told to.

grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:07 (six years ago) link

really want some blogger to try to get a reaction out of christina hoff summers

goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:13 (six years ago) link

I usually assume "How I did X and Changed My Life" memoirists are flighty, superficial and unrealistic people, because shit just doesn't work like that. This is a particularly egregious example.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:25 (six years ago) link

This is a horrible horrible story.

emil.y, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:40 (six years ago) link

btw, I regret my above post, having apparently made it without really reading most of the story in her blog post.

However, the blog post is now gone.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:44 (six years ago) link

?!

goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:44 (six years ago) link

this just got a little clusterfuckier

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:46 (six years ago) link

without the followup blog post this is kind of incoherent

she wrote a fluffy romance novel that seems to spend half its time scolding modern feminism, then revealed that the man she was writing about raped and abused her and (this is where things are fuzzy to me) the whole novel was a double-feint?

Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:52 (six years ago) link

it's a memior!

goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:53 (six years ago) link

ergh

so, replace "romance novel" with "memoir"; is the rest accurate?

Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:54 (six years ago) link

Yup.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:54 (six years ago) link

huh

Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:55 (six years ago) link

Given some of the things she was also saying about her publisher I wonder if that had something to do with it.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:55 (six years ago) link

What are your thoughts on this situation president keyes?

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:43 (three months ago) link

Heh, in light of those allegations, this is quite rich:

https://jacket2.org/commentary/entry-9

pomenitul, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:45 (three months ago) link

I mean, it doesn’t make him hypocritical. He is against call out culture. Now he is being called out. Based on my careful skimming of 11 or 12 words of that article.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:50 (three months ago) link

Someone with a serious anger problem shouldn’t be around students. And if these kinds of social media campaigns are the way to get someone fired, they’re needed. But something about it makes me a little uncomfortable—like for instance the implication that he was to blame for a colleague’s suicide, maybe that’s true, but it’s such a serious charge to make via tweet.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:54 (three months ago) link

I agree. The richness comes from his bragging about having outlived his literary enemies, one of whom committed suicide, behaviour that strikes me as psychopathically obsessed with proper names and their weight on the scene of poetic 'fame'.

pomenitul, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:55 (three months ago) link

yeah but like, i have no idea what the context of that comment was. he is 70 years old. he might not have been thinking of her when he said that.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:57 (three months ago) link

he could have easily said that, though--i'm not necessarily extending him the benefit of the doubt. he seems like a fucked up person. but the sanctimony of all of this just doesn't sit well with me.

i guess if the university took the complaints more seriously, they could get an official hearing and not this kind of public show.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:01 (three months ago) link

Maybe I'm misreading this but

Watten had taken to bragging that, after Lindberg's suicide, all his major adversaries in the department had either left or were dead

implies a) recurrent behaviour and b) that he was indeed thinking of Lindberg when he (repeatedly) said that. Of course, these are mere allegations at this stage.

pomenitul, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:03 (three months ago) link

I don't really have many thoughts, just came across this this morning. I saw Watten read a long time ago, and I know he was one of the 4 or 5 important LANGUAGE poets but he really didn't seem poetically at the level of others. I see he had a debate on social media with Nathaniel Mackey (whose work I love) about Robert Duncan and "mythical" poetry vs. "materialist" writing.

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:05 (three months ago) link

I don't recall him making much of an impression when I first started delving into LANGUAGE but I haven't explored his poetry enough to say. He's had decades to hone his craft since the movement's heyday in the 70s/80s.

pomenitul, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:08 (three months ago) link

Call-in culture > Call-out culture, but in this specific case Watten seems to have retaliated against anyone who has tried to do anything about him, and this specific case is about complaints he has brought against two other students. It seems mostly to be a big systemic failure, and I don't know how you deal with that without raising a stink. There need to be some sort of trust before call-ins can work.

Frederik B, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:59 (three months ago) link

i agree

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 15:31 (three months ago) link

Not exactly pertinent to the controversy with the students but this is a fascinating read, if extremely long:

https://www.dispatchespoetrywars.com/commentary/an-encounter-between-nathaniel-mackey-and-barrett-watten/

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Thursday, 2 May 2019 16:13 (three months ago) link

god ya is such a dumpster fire of all the worst people

maura, Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:30 (three months ago) link

Never understood adults who exclusively read YA books, but if it keeps them from fucking around with the stuff I read I guess it serves its purpose.

This guy deserves to be dragged hard imo: https://www.scifiandscary.com/this-is-not-a-review-of-hells-shadows/

(The review included isn't well written, but I assume that's because they're amateur reviewers, which makes his screed even more pointless and shitty... and he wasn't even responding to the review itself, but just any hypothetical bad review.)

emil.y, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:16 (three months ago) link

omg that is amazing. Too many favourite quotes to list but:

"Another reviewer stated she liked the story 'a lot' better than J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter books"

Number None, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:33 (three months ago) link

More a 'kinda lol but mostly sad' story imo.

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:35 (three months ago) link

To the best of my knowledge, The Amulet's platform is absolutely unique. No one has ever read a faith-based tale like this one. Indeed, the prologue alone will make you think you're reading an Indiana Jones novel. Please note this: part one is the supremely eerie launch of the story. Will glue your fingers to the pages. Part two, nothing like part one, is the most intellectual part, the most provocative, that may cause a great many people to pause and consider what they've just read for certain passages are no less than startling. Part three is the mountainous dessert of the novel. Fasten your seat belt. The action never ends.

Given the intensely stirring premise that underpins this novel (as revealed by the conclusion of part one), you'll find out why the Hollywood executive wanted to speak with me if you choose to read the book. I will tell you that many of the story's scenes, beginning with the prologue, will almost jump off the page, their movie character so clearly obvious. And as you go, they only increase in scale and grandeur. Please enjoy The Amulet with my very best wishes.

mookieproof, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:38 (three months ago) link

the "mountainous dessert" is a technical term first used by northrop frye iirc

mark s, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:40 (three months ago) link

i myself am underpinned by an intensely stirring premise

mookieproof, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:42 (three months ago) link

You've gotta be a hustler if you want to get on i guess

Doctor Nu (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:45 (three months ago) link

This is just another level:

In the author’s note, Klein writes:

“And please note this – both novels were read by an entire Barnes & Noble store management team and were deemed so good by the two assistant store managers and the store manager that they were ordered and shelved right next to the works of Mr. King himself.”

Dean Klein, author’s note for Hell’s Shadows

emil.y, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:45 (three months ago) link

man, I bet Koontz was on the other side

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:48 (three months ago) link

You laugh, but consider how prominently jacket blurbs from Barnes & Noble store management teams are featured on your average Pulitzer Prize-winning novel.

the prologue alone will make you think you're reading an Indiana Jones novel

You know - one of those classic Indiana Jones novels we all love.

One Eye Open, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 20:25 (three months ago) link

The birth of a new copypasta is unfolding before our very eyes.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 21:06 (three months ago) link

Think you've read just about every type of haunted house story out there? Uh uh. Not like this one. You won't have a clue as to what happens next. Hell's Shadows is a wild tale of two people whose deep love for each other is severely tested by a house and the unfathomable creatures within it. And outside it. Gil and Robin Turner reside in the most haunted house of all time, a house so dangerous the Turners come to realize the house itself is hell itself. Evil. Deadly. Alive.

Hell's Shadows was inspired by the great and classic film, Poltergeist. Here, however, every character, every relationship, every place, thing and supernatural occurrence has been vastly increased in intensity.

mookieproof, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 21:29 (three months ago) link

i highly recommend indiana jones and the hollow earth

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 22:23 (three months ago) link

Will glue your fingers to the pages.

I appreciated this image.

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 15 May 2019 00:45 (three months ago) link

sci-fi self-publishing scene appears to the the absolute fucking worst

akm, Wednesday, 15 May 2019 02:44 (three months ago) link

Wow

Careless Love Battery (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 15 May 2019 09:57 (three months ago) link

sci-fi self-publishing scene appears to the the absolute fucking worst


what about ya

maura, Wednesday, 15 May 2019 15:13 (three months ago) link

ya don’t need to be rude, they were just stating an opinion

milkshake chuk (wins), Wednesday, 15 May 2019 15:16 (three months ago) link

"My ability to conceive and prepare prose are off the chart high."

<3

jmm, Wednesday, 15 May 2019 15:16 (three months ago) link

same

mark s, Wednesday, 15 May 2019 15:18 (three months ago) link

ya don’t need to be rude, they were just stating an opinion


ahaha
(i meant young adult but you probably figured)

maura, Wednesday, 15 May 2019 15:22 (three months ago) link

isn't ya all speculative sci-fi these days anyway

imago, Wednesday, 15 May 2019 15:25 (three months ago) link

"My ability to conceive and prepare prose are off the chart high."

Can we get a board description change, please? Even one of the minor, underused ones will do.

two months pass...

https://slate.com/culture/2019/07/delia-owens-crawdads-murder-africa.html

I had, in fact, only heard of this book because my sister read it for a book club, she said it was bad. Somewhat concerned that this story is going to drive me to read an ultra-long Jeffrey Goldberg article.

JoeStork, Tuesday, 30 July 2019 15:30 (three weeks ago) link

I am all in favour of wildlife poachers dying horrible deaths, so I have no problems with this writer's murky background.

And according to some websites, there were “sexcapades.” (James Morrison), Wednesday, 31 July 2019 06:34 (three weeks ago) link

Yeah this thing is weird since this seems to be pretty common knowledge—something her publisher def knows about. I think maybe the goopy Reese Witherspoon connection makes it a strange contrast.

I couldn’t find any info but I’m going to assume that poacher they killed was black

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, 31 July 2019 12:57 (three weeks ago) link

lol at However, the Wikipedia entry for Owens comes as only the fourth result when you Google her name

Screamin' Jay Gould (The Yellow Kid), Wednesday, 31 July 2019 13:02 (three weeks ago) link

I am all in favour of wildlife poachers dying horrible deaths

Tbh this in itself would be one thing, but the whole 'white saviour' thing makes me feel pretty unsympathetic to these people.

emil.y, Wednesday, 31 July 2019 13:59 (three weeks ago) link

xpost I love how the media is full of these stories that are just the writer discovering an article from less than 10 years ago.

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, 31 July 2019 14:08 (three weeks ago) link

three weeks pass...

God I loathe the petty and abusive statusgrubbing of men like that. Hope he sinks.

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Friday, 23 August 2019 04:55 (two days ago) link


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