George H.W. Bush - Classic or Dud

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2012/11/29/13/42/oJ2at.SlMa.81.jpeg

Our first vice president since Matty Van Buren to get elected in his own right following the end of his running mate's term, he's not looking too well lately. Should he die, lots of obits will acknowledge him as a "moderate" and the Last of the Pragmatists when aside from cutting a deal with the Dems over tax hikes and signing the ADA he groveled before Reaganism and conservatives since Ronnie beat him for the nomination in 1980. It doesn't help that no decent bios exist (a shock actually).

Does he deserve a second look?

In the end, his bio will be: one errant sperm of his led to the worst presidency of our lifetimes.

haha yeah his sex life ended up being a lot more damaging than clinton's

now there's an obit

iatee & Eric H otm

Handled the Gulf War tolerably well. "Voodoo economics". ADA. Not a neo-con (at least in its present incarnation). Otoh, Dan Quayle.

The only way Poppy Bush looks any good is if you compare him to his son. Or to Reagan. Remember that millions of voters, upon reflection, preferred Ross Perot to this guy.

He was largely an empty suit his whole political life. It's his post-presidency years, buddying up with Clinton and occasionally disagreeing with his son that made me think he wasn't such a bad guy (relatively speaking).

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mg7D3kYysfw/Rp2PiFfXMXI/AAAAAAAACXA/9Bb1hAwWwQ8/s400/clinton_bush0508.jpg

he also ditched the nra over jackbooted thugs comment.

Wimp or simp?

he wasn't such a bad guy (relatively speaking)

He's the only president in my lifetime I could imagine being related to, for better and for worse.

lol Clinton kind of reminds me of some of my extended relatives.

WILLIE HORTON should be in the lead of his obits

morbs' favorite president! he is an old dude, hope he goes peacefully

I get the "not a bad guy" thing but can't square it w/his ruthlessness and opportunism. He voted against civil rights in the 60s, engineered Iran contra...actually he was a prick

always professed to not remember where he was/what he was doing when JFK was shot

Hell I don't remember where I was then either

He didn't engineer Iran Contra -- he was a willing co-conspirator, meeting with Arab leaders to get their dough.

The ultimate Company Man - one so professionally boring that even after years of wearing the dual hat of Oil Man and CIA Operative you actually did kinda believe him when he said that he was "out of the loop" on Iran-Contra. Being the father of George W., Neil & Jeb is probable cosmic blowback for being the son of a Nazi financier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnOnDatqENo

"Sadd'm"

Highlight of the presidency

pretty indefensible for his role in iran-contra -- including (especially) pardoning the main players. i'm kind of amazed at how completely that's been forgotten (along with everything else about iran-contra,).

i'm not so keen on the gulf war either, tbh.

http://www.topchinatravel.com/pic/about-us/world-vip-travel/-US-ex-president-George-Bush-and-his-wife.jpg

He seems like maybe a less terrible person than his older son or his wife, but that's a low bar. The least-awful Republican president of the past 50 years is not high praise either. Can't think of any grounds on which he's actually somehow defensible.

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/WL010925/george-bush-and-jennifer-fitzgerald

Barbara hasn't aged a day since 1975. Of course, she already looked about 100.

Image keywords

Caucasian ethnicity

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-IH055332.jpg?size=67&uid=588acb60-23e7-4932-b50f-2e7583ee76b8
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01384/Bush_Snr_and_Pups_1384851i.jpg

rather symbolic donchathink

http://www.eyerocketbooks.com/images/Bush_Guitar.jpg

I love the line in The Final Days about how Al Haig told RNC Chairman Bush that the smoking gun had been found in the Watergate tapes and the president would likely have to resign.

When asked what Bush's reaction had been, Haig said that "he opened himself into assholes and shit himself to death."

First president since Truman? LBJ? to wear glasses in public on a regular basis.

Last one too.

Bwah ha! xp

I really miss the days when you didn't have to include the "H.W." when referring to this guy.

don't we all.

i kinda feel like no one can be director of the c.i.a., even for a year, and not be a complete asshole.

don't forget we have him to thank for Clarence Thomas

Oh shit, that's right.

don't forget: we have him to thank for loathing broccoli.

never forget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ervjj_qRXXQ

2 Bad Neighbors

"It's your sons, Jeb Bush and George Bush Jr.!"

http://www.hwdyk.com/q/images/twobadneighbors_12.jpg

http://youtu.be/GkyBfJfcIoM?t=23s

ebruceii 9 months ago

This video makes me want to punch that old man Bush in his effing face. HE was the person running the CIA when THEY brought that shit into our cities to pay for wars in Central America under President Reagan. Glad that old scumbag is dead.

ebruceii is clairvoyant.

Poppy Bush never had an Alec Baldwin tell him "Nice guy? I don't give a shit. Good father? Fuck you. Go home and play with your kids!

Being the father of George W., Neil & Jeb is probable cosmic blowback for being the son of a Nazi financier.

Also ironic for him being the son of the first national treasurer of Planned Parenthood.

'never understood lemonade myself...not my forte.'

Carter is sort of an Old Testament figure. He has a limited feel for practical politics, and the high horse can be tiresome, but his force of will is like the God of the Jews. He remembers slights, and he comes with both the olive branch and the sword. https://t.co/SNMF1S3IIT

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) December 5, 2018

dick nixon is such a dork

jeez if he'd had a sword all along he shoulda whipped it out when he was campaigning for re-election

dick nixon is such a dork

― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown),

as Nixon said about Ike: "...in the best possible sense."

LGM alerted me to this long essay about the history of climate change politics published last August, and the Bush I administration's attempt to quash the science: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/01/magazine/climate-change-losing-earth.html

there was some semi-interesting stuff in that Bag Man podcast about how HW tried to quash the investigation into Spiro Agnew

Don’t go all wobbly on us Claire. https://t.co/rRwmjT9bgc

— Doug Henwood (@DougHenwood) December 6, 2018

it's so lame to feel compassion toward others

I’m with @tenuredradical. I really hate the whole “rest in hell motherfucker!!!!” 🔥🔥🤘🤘🤘🔥🔥 trend but I guess I would be.

Think the cure for this is go talk to a long, long line of people whose close family are dead because of his fucking wars?

yeah if anything the rest in hell motherfucker trend is a sign of increased awareness and worsening allergy to false narratives

Uh...

I do too, then I think: w/ drones strikes, Obama killed vastly more Afghans, Iraquis and Pakistanis - children & parents, leaving 1000s of orphans - than Bush, also deporting an unprecedented number of immigrants, & so presidential virtue is pretty damn complicated, isn't it?

— Claire Potter (@TenuredRadical) December 6, 2018

Anyone who had her for a history professor should get a refund.

there is no way that is remotely accurate

Obama didn't have anything like this on his hands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack

her tweets are bad, but who is she?

she's right that presidential virtue is pretty damn complicated. no one gets into or out of that office with clean hands. but there is such a thing as factual accuracy and that "vastly more" has no contact with reality.

Presidential virtue isn't complicated, there is none.

yep

no president can be an "american hero" - another thing that bugs me with all this pagan death cult shit

there are very few indisputable "american heroes"

Bill Wilson
MLK
Jackie Robinson

that's off the top of my head. anyone else?

Obama didn't have anything like this on his hands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack

― Οὖτις, Friday, December 7, 2018 11:29 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

bush didn't really have direct responsibility for this in any way. improved relations with iraq and exports of chemicals, weapons etc. were a policy instigated by reagan

I think there's a not-small number of heroes - abolitionists, civil rights workers (from women's rights to gay rights and all stops in between), labor organizers, etc..

Bill Wilson
MLK
Jackie Robinson

Dawn Powell

to say there is no such thing as presidential virtue is facile and incorrect. each president makes thousands of consequential decisions that affect millions, if not billions of people. some percentage of these are intentionally beneficial and not based wholly upon cynical political calculation. pretending every president is being of pure viciousness is stupid and just reinforces a false conservative narrative about progressives.

Otm

That’s bably a controversial opinion on ilx though

Probably*

Committing or actively aiding crimes against humanity tends to zero out "intentionally beneficial" acts IMO. John Wayne Gacy made a lot of kids happy when he did his clown act.

To disregard those acts, one must assume that you can't be President without doing horrible, inhuman things for indefensible reasons. If true, then we deserve to be wiped off the face of the planet.

heroism is generally portioned out in small doses, but to a surprisingly large number of people. it's nearly impossible to maintain a conspicuous heroism consistently over decades, and we should never expect it of anyone. but ascribing more than the ordinary amount of heroism to G. H. W. Bush is just the usual political posturing.

I’m not saying Bush was good I just think it’s gross to gloat at someone’s death. I thought the same thing about people cheering when Bin Laden was killed.

If true, then we deserve to be wiped off the face of the planet.

It's closer to true than most of us would like to admit, but your conclusion is just more hyperbole.

Donne was wrong.

It makes the left look like assholes when they act like this for figures who 99% of America consider to be nothing like Bin Laden.

I’m not saying Bush was good I just think it’s gross to gloat at someone’s death. I thought the same thing about people cheering when Bin Laden was killed.

― Trϵϵship, Friday, December 7, 2018 11:58 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok i was going to give you shit for your initial statement but now that you've made it clear you extend this courtesy to bin laden i find you more consistent

I think it's a positive development in the Trump era that people are much less eager to cede to media narratives about "profiles in courage" or whatever and the "gloating" is, like Simon said, more of a corrective on this sickness than simply being glad a 94-year-old man finally died

cheering when Bin Laden was killed was muted anyway because it happened a decade after 9/11 and two awful unnecessary wars. it was a dulled, cloudy, anticlimactic feeling. if he were taken out in Tora Bora I think Americans would've celebrated as they did at the death of Hitler, not that much of a stretch.

xp. my reaction is more sam jackson in a time to kill

Shakespeare was right:

Tired with all these, for restful death I cry,
As to behold desert a beggar born,
And needy nothing trimmed in jollity,
And purest faith unhappily forsworn,
And gilded honor shamefully misplaced,
And maiden virtue rudely strumpeted,
And right perfection wrongfully disgraced,
And strength by limping sway disablèd,
And art made tongue-tied by authority,
And folly, doctor-like, controlling skill,
And simple truth miscalled simplicity,
And captive good attending captain ill.

  Tired with all these, from these would I be gone,
  Save that to die, I leave my love alone.

Jarvis Cocker was right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd6E1JpwMj4

many xps - Alfred, why Dawn Powell?

hottake: probably at least 50% of American presidents are both war criminals AND "decent people." It's function of being at the helm of American Empire.

many xps - Alfred, why Dawn Powell?

― flappy bird,

She wrote well and was no one's fool, hence she's a hero.

fortunately i have never cared what 99% of America thinks (fuck "Family Feud")

no argument there but I think the usual definition of "American hero" excludes artists, business, and most people... it's someone that made a (largely) selfless and substantial contribution and impact on the country/world... so Bill W. is obvious, MLK as well. Jackie Robinson also an easy pick despite being paid for his work. Jonas Salk is another big one I forgot. the guy that invented air conditioning? maybe.

xp

xp we know, morbs.

the "war criminal" stuff always seems a bit glib to me. there are valid criticisms of FDR's conduct of WW2 but i still wouldn't be comfortable throwing it in the same category as W's invasion of iraq.

For me it's simple: how many Americans had their lives improved thanks to a president's leadership? Hence my not giving two shits about James Polk's comfy residence in the upper echelon.

here's a Poppy grace note I learned: James Baker snuck in a Morton's steak and a bottle of Grey Goose one time that Jefe was in the hospital.

I assume everyone who wanted to read Maureen Dowd's lengthy paean to her friendship with Bush has done so w/out a link here.

biggest yuk: GWHB referred to Dubya as "my son Quincy"

that picture of them in front of the Xmas tree is something else

Can't wait till we get back to normal. pic.twitter.com/QtdjNgKBCB

— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) May 30, 2020