The Eurozone Crisis Thread

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I know there's a Greece thread, as well as the UK and US Economy Shitbins, and the French politics thread, but I think having all the relevant Eurozone stuff in its own place - what with Spain teetering and German Austerity questioned and the rise of Right and Left groups that we should have a catch-all for our old friend The Euro and the difficult times it faces.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 02:40 (seven years ago) link

Spain warns Euro is finished without fiscal union

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 21:02 (seven years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6sYTEmHKAE

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 21:02 (seven years ago) link

It's impossible to have any informed opinion on what's really going on because everyone has their own agenda. I try to keep that in mind when I try to follow the news. (RT.com : the whole western world is one big scam! - Anglosaxon media and economists: enthusiastically jump at any hint that the euro may be in trouble possibly - pro-european media: the euro is the one thing that saved europe from the 2008 crisis that those american banks caused - etc etc) - we'll see what happens, no use in having an opinion beforehand.

StanM, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 21:20 (seven years ago) link

Krugman put up a little blog about the Estonian thing, and the Estonian President tweeted:

toomas hendrik ilves ‏@IlvesToomas
Let's write about something we know nothing about & be smug, overbearing & patronizing: after all, they're just wogs: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/estonian-rhapsdoy/

toomas hendrik ilves ‏@IlvesToomas
Guess a Nobel in trade means you can pontificate on fiscal matters & declare my country a "wasteland". Must be a Princeton vs Columbia thing

toomas hendrik ilves ‏@IlvesToomas
But yes, what do we know? We're just dumb & silly East Europeans. Unenlightened. Someday we too will understand. Nostra culpa.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 21:28 (seven years ago) link

and he continues!

Let's sh*t on East Europeans: their English is bad, won't respond & actually do what they've agreed to & reelect govts that are responsible.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 21:32 (seven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

BBC Analysis: Eurogeddon II http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01k1nh0

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 25 June 2012 22:17 (seven years ago) link

six months pass...

o rly

“Forecasters significantly underestimated the increase in unemployment and the decline in domestic demand associated with fiscal consolidation,” Blanchard and co-author Daniel Leigh, a fund economist, wrote in a paper on growth forecast errors. The authors essentially admit that they failed to consider important factors about how regions might react to austerity in times of financial crisis when they advised IMF austerity policy.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/04/imf_economists_apologize_for_austerity_forecasts/

Gukbe, Saturday, 5 January 2013 00:17 (six years ago) link

two months pass...

so, this cyprus thing! it's crazy, right?

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 15:01 (six years ago) link

It is!

Gukbe, Sunday, 17 March 2013 15:03 (six years ago) link

isn't cyprus still occupied by turkey?

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 15:03 (six years ago) link

northern cyprus is. the rest of cyprus is occupied by drunk british squaddies.

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 15:04 (six years ago) link

So much dirty money in Cyprus, at the moment, taxing some of it looks superficially attractive but, yes, this seems crazy.

Des Fusils Pour Banter (ShariVari), Sunday, 17 March 2013 15:06 (six years ago) link

isn't this going to result in panic in italy, greece et al?

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 15:41 (six years ago) link

that's the plan. get italy used to the rapidly approaching future

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 15:44 (six years ago) link

the german colonization of europe through non-military means

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 15:46 (six years ago) link

oh ... kay

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 15:58 (six years ago) link

maybe that's controversial by suggesting motive but it's an accurate description of what is happening

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:00 (six years ago) link

Colonisation by an elite of ideologues, not "Germans"

Gukbe, Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:01 (six years ago) link

ok, and iraq was invaded by an elite of ideologues and not "americans." it's german fiscal policy that is driving this.

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:10 (six years ago) link

this is a good move if it's being done as a purely socialist alternative to crushing austerity measures, especially as cyprus, with its predominantly tourist-driven economy, isn't very affluent, and a great deal of the wealth is held by non-nationals.

the best alternative would be to write off debt but that isn't happening. at least this is a way to alleviate the debt that exists.

cyprus has already been colonised by expat oligarchs, will hold judgement on this new measure until its results are plain. but it seems like a good and surprisingly egalitarian deal.

look at the work-for-free shit we're putting up with in the uk and tell me that some weighted version of this wouldn't be preferable to austerity! obviously there's a totally different economy here and it wouldn't ever come close to happening what with our neocon fucktards at all levels of government and opposition but still. would obviously have to do it first and then announce it to prevent a run on the banks. c'mon, it'd be lolz. vaguely ORWELLIAN lolz.

is german fiscal policy so terrible? surely sustainable economy is far preferable to boom'n'bust at this point

c'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le beurre (imago), Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:15 (six years ago) link

how is this not austerity by different means? 6.7% tax on all deposits under $100k is going to hit an awful lot of middle + lower class ppl

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:17 (six years ago) link

it's a mugging

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:19 (six years ago) link

not that hard

cyprus isn't a very wealthy country. cost of living isn't that high, unless you're living in a gated resort with a spa and a load of native flunkies. this will hit the landowners, hoteliers and other exploiters hardest, which is i'm sure you'd agree the way it should be

c'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le beurre (imago), Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:20 (six years ago) link

why don't you think it will hit lower income ppl with savings?

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:26 (six years ago) link

because they won't, on the whole, be entitled fuckberks about it

c'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le beurre (imago), Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:37 (six years ago) link

unquestioned criticism of austerity is really getting on my tits (where "austerity" = "why cant we live in bubbleland)

mister borges (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:41 (six years ago) link

austerity fundamentally depresses and doesn't stimulate a recessive economy, which in turn increases debt and austerity measures. it's dumb and it's exploitive. euro bonds are such a better idea.

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:44 (six years ago) link

nothing fundamentally does anything in a x -> y statement in re govt actions/economy

mister borges (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 March 2013 16:54 (six years ago) link

you are wrong

flopson, Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:04 (six years ago) link

austerity is actually by definition depressive

flopson, Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:06 (six years ago) link

yeah, all expenditure in an economy is equally recycled and efficient domestically wrt the multiplier effect huh

"austerity" isn't anything more than "what happened?" as it is being used by 90% of ppl atm in europe xp

mister borges (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:08 (six years ago) link

i don't live in europe & understand that u r taking this position 4 challops/out of exasperation (which i admire) but you're still def wrong

flopson, Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:16 (six years ago) link

i'll certainly admit that any position i take will be itself overly simplistic- and tbf i realise that ilx isn't hopefully as blanket-lazy about it's use of the word.

but 'austerity' in ireland is nothing more than an attempt to target current spending in an intelligent manner because our deficit is astonishing.

there are of course many ways & means to do this along different political, economical and social theories, and there is of course other such avenues that say you shouldn't be doing it at all. in the absence of any wide-ranging agreement as to how else you plug the gaping streams in individual national budgets (and markets are not rushing in to do so) then here we are.

yes, it'd be great were germany to throw her weight behind measure to put an end to uncertainty in order that the 'short-term' fiscal crisis is eased in a managed way. but the idea that there are not very good reasons that governments across europe should be trying to cut their cloth to measure seems to me to be a far too slavish devotion to kenynesian thought.

mister borges (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:24 (six years ago) link

this is a good move if it's being done as a purely socialist alternative to crushing austerity measures

it isn't, and the practical effect won't be "purely socialist" either. it's a de facto flat tax, given the "progressive" bit doesn't kick in until you have savings of more than €100,000. flat taxes are not socialist (i.e. not redistributive) even when the beneficiary is the state, but the direct beneficiary here are the bank bondholders who come out unscathed.

look at the work-for-free shit we're putting up with in the uk and tell me that some weighted version of this wouldn't be preferable to austerity!

this is a ludicrous false dichotomy. this has nothing to do with state austerity. cyprus's problems are unusual because their domestic banks (and their debts) are many times the state GDP, which makes the state vulnerable when things go wrong in the banking sector.

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:32 (six years ago) link

maybe my main quibble these days is with the measures we are using to define the success of domestic economies, idk.

mister borges (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:33 (six years ago) link


the german colonization of europe through non-military means

― Mordy, Sunday, March 17, 2013 3:46 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

maybe that's controversial by suggesting motive but it's an accurate description of what is happening

― Mordy, Sunday, March 17, 2013 4:00 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you sound like marcello. that's not "controversial" by suggesting motive. that's utter bullshit by suggesting motive.

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:33 (six years ago) link

i'd prob allow that germany is wreaking havoc to the eurozone through misguided (?) attempts at self-protection, the idea that the damages caused is an intentional or desired outcome is......silly

mister borges (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:39 (six years ago) link

i guess my main problem with this is that, in their apparent desire to teach a lesson about moral hazard to the people who aren't the problem (savers at retail banks), isn't it *obviously* going to result in a run on banks in cyprus? and an increase in the risk of that in italy, spain, etc. all for what isn't actually that much money. like as well as being regressive and unjust, etc. is just seems completely fucking stupid.

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:43 (six years ago) link

so what do they get ito equity?

flopson, Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:47 (six years ago) link

I wonder whether there is an ulterior motive in trying to keep Greece on track. Huge numbers of wealthy and moderately wealthy Greeks shifted their savings to Cypriot banks in the fear that domestic ones would collapse or, more feasibly, that Greece would convert back to the Drachma. This will come add a pretty sharp disincentive to doing that again.

Seems strange not to do this as a wealth tax, rather than simply penalising savers. A million Euro holiday home is left untouched but a million Euro in the bank will be decimated.

Des Fusils Pour Banter (ShariVari), Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:54 (six years ago) link

Christopher Pissarides, a Nobel Prize-winning economist and chairman of the government’s economic advisory committee, warned that the island’s economy would collapse within “two or three days” if the legislation failed to pass.
“If the law isn’t voted through, what happens will be much worse. There will be many bankruptcies and most Cypriots will lose everything because the banks will not reopen,” he said.

hmm.

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:55 (six years ago) link

Mr Anastasiades explained that Cyprus gave way after the ECB threatened to push the island into a disorderly default by withdrawing liquidity support for Laiki, its second-biggest bank, on Tuesday.
He said Cyprus had a choice between “a catastrophic scenario of disorderly bankruptcy, or a scenario of a painful but controlled management of the crisis”.

oh je.

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 17:55 (six years ago) link

always a good thing that I roadtest my halfbaked first impressions, ty caek, altho tbf I did concede the false dichotomy point in the original post, along with a clear statement (backed up by y'self) that most of the money in cyprus is held in banks by foreign nationals

it's more socialist than letting the economy fall apart! if indeed that was what would have happened

c'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le beurre (imago), Sunday, 17 March 2013 18:16 (six years ago) link

the point that we have reached in contemporary capitalism: paying for bank bailouts w/ the savings of a country's ppl in order to preserve the rapidly depleting capitalism husk is more socialist than idk communism?

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 18:18 (six years ago) link

ja, sorry, "ludicrous" a bit strong, but i think it's a pretty confused interpretation of this to consider it socialistic.

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 18:22 (six years ago) link

cyprus's finance minister 17 days ago:

Cyprus's new finance minister on Friday ruled out a haircut, or imposed losses, on bank deposits to ease a financial bailout from international lenders, now stalled amid worries about debt sustainability.

"Really and categorically - and this doesn't only apply in the case of Cyprus but for the world over and the euro zone - there really couldn't be a more stupid idea," Michael Sarris, who took over his post on Friday, told reporters.

Sarris, a widely respected economist, was the first appointment of new Cypriot President Nicos Anastasiades, who won presidential elections on Feb. 24 on a platform of constructively attempting to seek a deal with lenders.

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 18:23 (six years ago) link

letting the economy fall apart would not result in communism or anarchism or what I believe may be ideal: localised economies

it would result in exploitation, foreign first-world sharks moving in and buying up land and people, cyprus finally sublimated as luxury mediterranean commodity with no autonomy whatsoever (more so than at present), slave labour and capitalism of a far nasties kind than this bureaucratic fudge

what's the solution? dunno. open table.

c'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le beurre (imago), Sunday, 17 March 2013 18:26 (six years ago) link

first maybe return northern autonomy to cyprus government

Mordy, Sunday, 17 March 2013 18:29 (six years ago) link

what would that do?

caek, Sunday, 17 March 2013 18:30 (six years ago) link

Discussing it a bit in the 'European Politics' thread.

Frederik B, Friday, 19 October 2018 10:03 (eleven months ago) link

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-45954022

The EU has rejected Italy’s budget - partly related to planned spending increases to guarantee a minimum basic income.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 08:35 (ten months ago) link

also partly related to tax amnesty and tax cuts for rich ppl

groovemaaan, Wednesday, 24 October 2018 08:38 (ten months ago) link

I was looking at some Tooze graphs the other day which suggested Italy's public finances have been pretty much in line with Germany's in the last 20 years, but huge 70's/80's debt repayments have been hampering them. Sick of hearing those Five Star wankers described as "anti-establishment".

calzino, Wednesday, 24 October 2018 08:44 (ten months ago) link

Yeah Italy's budget deficit has been relatively small by the standards of European nations, it's the size of the debt that's killing them.

Is it giving the Italian government too much credit to suggest they might have put this budget forward in the full knowledge that it would be rejected? If you wanted to flaunt a piece of anti-EU propaganda then you could hardly have been gifted a better opportunity.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 October 2018 10:06 (ten months ago) link

Otm, I think that's exactly what happened.

lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 10:10 (ten months ago) link

As far as I can tell their government structure is like Nick Clegg trying to rule a coalition of Momentum and UKIP.

My guess is Five Star and League banked on the EU being too distracted by Brexit to care, or see Italeave as too risky so wouldn't want to rock the boat.

Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 10:28 (ten months ago) link

Itexit, surely to goodness >:(

Alma Kirby (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 10:37 (ten months ago) link

partly related to planned spending increases to guarantee a minimum basic income.

Although its not universal as I have seen reported (a while ago now)

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 24 October 2018 20:17 (ten months ago) link

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/24/this-is-an-existential-test-of-the-eurozone/?utm_source=PostUp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=7450&utm_term=Editor

The balance in particular between inflated stock valuations in the U.S., despite recent corrections, and the tightening interest rate situation, which destabilizes the bond market, is a very precarious one. You could easily have offsetting effects, where panic-stricken money flees Italian debt into safer German and American debt. American debt is still, believe it or not, a safe haven asset. But for the eurozone itself, this is a mortal risk. This is an existential threat.

no need for the "believe it or not" at this point in the game!

calzino, Friday, 26 October 2018 00:08 (ten months ago) link

cos I don't believe it!

calzino, Friday, 26 October 2018 00:09 (ten months ago) link

BREAKING: Angela Merkel will quit as head of Germany's Christian Democratic party after nearly 20 years, source says https://t.co/RJ1VPouz4b pic.twitter.com/0QaxynRZCg

— Bloomberg (@business) October 29, 2018

calzino, Monday, 29 October 2018 09:31 (ten months ago) link

The Green vote is up and other left party votes have held up I think.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 29 October 2018 09:42 (ten months ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqnaYAaWoAEk35B.jpg

good day for the Greens.

calzino, Monday, 29 October 2018 09:45 (ten months ago) link

And for Fascists :(

Alma Kirby (Tom D.), Monday, 29 October 2018 10:11 (ten months ago) link

every day seems to be a good day for them unfortunately.

calzino, Monday, 29 October 2018 10:14 (ten months ago) link

I don't know how these things work in the Federal Republic but SDP/Greens/FDP/Left coalition for Hesse, get in!

Alma Kirby (Tom D.), Monday, 29 October 2018 10:16 (ten months ago) link

allegedly now the "grown up in the room" has gone, all hell will break loose!

calzino, Monday, 29 October 2018 10:24 (ten months ago) link

I think its a good day. Another centrist down!

xyzzzz__, Monday, 29 October 2018 10:49 (ten months ago) link

Angie is still the chancellor. Also the AfD result is pretty low compared to East Germany (24% in the Saxony-Anhalt election two years ago, probably a majority of seats in Saxony next summer)

oder doch?, Monday, 29 October 2018 11:37 (ten months ago) link

four months pass...

The FT Alphaville podcast Alphachat is regularly excellent. The most recent one with Ashoka Mody (Princeton) and Waltraud Schelkle (LSE) is fascinating on the future of the Eurozone.

Mody is by no means universally admired for his negative view of the Eurozone aiui, but I find him pretty compelling here.

The Chinese economy, even if it does not have a hard landing, will inevitably slow down. China *has* to slow down – China cannot keep growing at 6% a year. With Chinese slowdown comes an inevitable slowdown in world trade growth. With a slowdown in world trade growth comes an inevitable slowdown in Eurozone growth. We are leading to an economic and political conjuncture over here, where the Eurozone is set on a long-term basis to slow down and we are set on at least a medium-term basis to have dysfunctional politics to resolve these extraordinarily complex international co-ordination issues.

As they address elsewhere, and as generally seems to be the consenus, Italy is due a banking crisis in the next couple of years at most. That seems to me to be potentially existential for the European project. Italy is undoubtedly too big to fail. I think it's fair to say the Eurozone has not learnt the lessons of the crisis, and it's not clear what the response would be to a failure of Italy's banking system. If Italy is too big to fail, it also feels like it's too big to rescue.

Fizzles, Sunday, 10 March 2019 20:54 (six months ago) link

Part of the point, not obvious from the quote, is that those dysfunctional politics are a consequence to the productivity crisis. So effectively the tools you get to solve a productivity crisis are dysfunctional politics, as the pre-crash liberal political consensus (or w/e u want to to call it) is de-legitimised and replaced more clearly by traditional questions of power and distribution.

Fizzles, Sunday, 10 March 2019 20:57 (six months ago) link

four weeks pass...

The far-right is now in government in Estonia:

https://www.dw.com/cda/en/estonia-far-right-set-to-enter-government-for-first-time/a-48240943

https://www.dw.com/cda/en/far-right-party-deputy-we-are-the-mainstream-in-estonia/a-47893557

EKRE leader Mart Helme would become interior minister and his son, Martin Helme, finance minister. The party would also control the environment, rural affairs, foreign trade and IT portfolios, while defense, justice, foreign affairs and culture would go to Fatherland.

”If you're black, go back," Helme said during a television appearance in 2013, adding, "I want Estonia to be a white country." In the Conflict Zone interview, Helme told Sebastian "80 percent of Estonians agreed with that statement."
Has he changed his views now? "No, no."

Instead Helme offered his own view of the problem: "What is racist in Europe nowadays is the replacement of indigenous people. That is pure racism."

ShariVari, Monday, 8 April 2019 15:09 (five months ago) link

Telling how countries that have little to no experience with non-white immigration (or immigration, period, other than Russian colonists in all but name, which are ultimately palatable as long as they're white) are scared shitless of 'the great replacement'.

pomenitul, Monday, 8 April 2019 15:21 (five months ago) link

Reminds me of the first time I went back to Romania and some family 'friend' started spewing casually racist shit about Asians. 'Have you ever met one?' 'No.' Chances are he never will, either, but he knows that what he knows is the incontrovertible truth.

pomenitul, Monday, 8 April 2019 15:26 (five months ago) link

I was going to say the biggest pro-Brexit votes in the UK were in areas with least immigration, it's not entirely true but not far off it.

Angry Question Time Man's Flute Club Band (Tom D.), Monday, 8 April 2019 15:28 (five months ago) link

I remember talking to a girl in Romania who was terrified of Chinese people because she’d been told they alI carry knives and have gang brawls in the street. If was a few years ago but I was also struck by how much tv programming was made up of dodgy 80s Hollywood action films, complete with every racist stereotype of the era, which probably didn’t help.

Estonia had a moderately liberal immigration policy until relatively recently iirc - though non-EU migration was capped at a couple of thousand per year, they didn’t put huge barriers in the way. There has always been a dodgy nationalist streak to domestic politics, though.

ShariVari, Monday, 8 April 2019 15:36 (five months ago) link

A common theme, too, meant to dissuade people from emigrating to Western countries, is Fear of Indians. It may be specific to Romania due to centuries of discrimination against the Roma, but it comes up almost systematically on the internet when an expat takes issue with the prevalence of racism back home: 'enjoy your Indian neighbour', like it were some kind of curse.

pomenitul, Monday, 8 April 2019 15:39 (five months ago) link

*as if it were…

pomenitul, Monday, 8 April 2019 15:40 (five months ago) link

fwiw my sense is that anti-semitism hasn't been a big problem in Estonia. I knew a Russian Jew who was exiled to Estonia in the 1970s, before escaping to the USA in the 1990s; the Soviets didn't want Jewish mathematicians to get positions at home but they could be sent to friendly auxiliaries without it being a death sentence.

L'assie (Euler), Monday, 8 April 2019 15:41 (five months ago) link

Antisemitism might not be but they’ve linked citizenship and language / ethnicity pretty strongly in order to render hundreds of thousands of non-ethnic-Estonian residents stateless or (practically) incapable of obtaining future citizenship. That is going to have an impact on how immigration is thought of.

ShariVari, Monday, 8 April 2019 15:54 (five months ago) link

I mean, "white genocide"/"the great replacement" is itself a wildly antisemitic conspiracy theory.

gyac, Monday, 8 April 2019 20:25 (five months ago) link

Salvini trying to form a new far-right bloc:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/08/matteo-salvini-launches-campaign-to-forge-far-right-alliance

ShariVari, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 07:46 (five months ago) link

Yeah, the Danish Peoples Party want to be a part of that. So far they've only used EU to embezzle funds for political purposes. Apparently, the larger the alliance, the larger the funds available for misuse will be.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 07:51 (five months ago) link

Those who support such parties tend to view them as Robin Hood figures, stealing from the elites to give back to the people. The level of delusion is off the charts.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 07:56 (five months ago) link

The far-right bloc is certainly something that I've been seeing for a quite a while. Years of lib triangulation and media driving migrants under and now, well, they have the votes.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 08:10 (five months ago) link

Speaking of 'the great replacement', the loathsome Renaud Camus has just announced that he will stand as a candidate in the EU elections against the 'replacists' who are supposedly preventing Europe from waging its 'war of decolonization'. We must embrace 'remigration', he says, and acknowledge that those who 'deny the great replacement' are the real 'negationists of our time'. Because 'Europe is more colonized today than it has ever colonized Africa', deporting all non-white Europeans is the sole means of avoiding a 'bloodbath'. 'If we may only choose between submission and war, let there be war'. Utterly sickening, all the more so after Christchurch. This is hate speech, full stop.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 11:01 (five months ago) link

I always wonder why schmucks like that don't shut up & just raise families of their own, but I see from his bio that that was never going to happen. self-loathing as usual.

L'assie (Euler), Tuesday, 9 April 2019 11:51 (five months ago) link

Not sure how him being gay is relevant or worth mentioning in that context. Gay people can have families too?

His campaign posters are like “no to anti Semitism!” while he’s famously ranted about French media having too many Jewish people.

gyac, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 11:57 (five months ago) link

They can, but they often don't, and it would have in any case been a source of internal tension, which dreams of replacement might have manifested.

L'assie (Euler), Tuesday, 9 April 2019 12:00 (five months ago) link

Or he could just be a raving racist and his sexuality isn’t relevant? Plenty of them out there with massive families spouting out his disgusting theories.

gyac, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 12:08 (five months ago) link

My point was less about him in particular and more about how a more practical solution to what they perceive as a problem would be to have large families, without having to do anything about the already-rather-meager legal immigration to Europe.

L'assie (Euler), Tuesday, 9 April 2019 12:11 (five months ago) link

rethink this one maybe

Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 9 April 2019 12:50 (five months ago) link

'Europe is more colonized today than it has ever colonized Africa'

Does this man have any idea how the European colonization of Africa operated?

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 9 April 2019 17:19 (five months ago) link

He thinks it was good lol

gyac, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 17:30 (five months ago) link

It was armed robbery on a continental scale.

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 9 April 2019 17:55 (five months ago) link

I think everyone (well almost) itt is aware that France in Africa was bad - though never as bad as Belgium. God!

gyac, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 18:03 (five months ago) link

Belgium still had a Human Zoo in the late 50's, but still not as bad as the UK's 60's gulags in Kenya, where lots of ww2 veterans who fought Rommel in N Africa on a zero pay - only rations deal ended up.

calzino, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 18:10 (five months ago) link

Assume these far right fascists are getting ready for the brown skinned climate refugees that are coming in the upcoming decades.

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 9 April 2019 18:47 (five months ago) link

five months pass...

make this work u fux

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/italy-pm-conte-left-leaning-coalition-vote-of-confidence

nashwan, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 13:16 (one week ago) link


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