9/11: Forbidden Thoughts

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Inspired by this piece at Salon.com, in which readers share their not-so-gloomy reactions to 9/11. Could be some cathartic reading if you haven't had the chance to just LAUGH about some aspect of the thing.

Anything to add?

Aaron A., Wednesday, 11 September 2002 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link

While laughter is good -- and should certainly occur after tragedy, I think everyone agress -- no, there is no need to laugh about September 11th just to prove a point. It was a bad thing.

Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Thursday, 12 September 2002 02:39 (nineteen years ago) link

that article is quite funny though... the guy throwing middle eastern food out of his freezer as an act of revenge, ho ho.

people will always find humour in the most unpleasant of situations. I read a review of a book by a holocaust survivor which seems to be chockful of really dark humour (and not Life Is Beautiful style shite either).

DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 12 September 2002 08:20 (nineteen years ago) link

eight years pass...

I didn't think the article was meant to be funny, though the it did have funny parts.

In mid-October 2001 I was at a get-together where a couple guys I knew were expressing fear about the purity of the cocaine they had purchased. They were really worried that the Taliban was going to put Anthrax or poison in the U.S.' drug supply, and they were trying to figure out how to test it for purity. Their fear seemed genuine and strong.

dumplings (Jesse), Saturday, 2 October 2010 17:40 (ten years ago) link

My secret "forbidden" thought was that I was seeing a major, meaningful historical moment, and like someone in the Salon piece said, that finally something non-banal was happening.

dumplings (Jesse), Saturday, 2 October 2010 17:44 (ten years ago) link

i don't think that's such a "forbidden" thought. everyone knew -- that day -- that 09.11.01 drew a line between the sunny 90s and the darker new century.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 2 October 2010 17:51 (ten years ago) link

The bad part was that it was kind of thrilling. That was not my overriding feeling that day, but it was there, and I really pushed it away. I know that is terrible, but it's true, and I know I'm not the only one who felt that way. Everyday life for people like me is pretty banal, and big shake-ups can be fascinating.

I overheard a more "forbidden" reaction a few weeks later at a get-together where everyone was, of course, talking about 9/11. One jackass' main concern was that the Taliban had spiked the US's cocaine supply with poison or Anthrax.

dumplings (Jesse), Saturday, 2 October 2010 18:22 (ten years ago) link

i think that those cokeheads main concern should be that the US cocaine supply is tainted with levamisole hydrochloride, which can cause immune system collapse.

Honey, I squirted jizz all over the baby (the table is the table), Saturday, 2 October 2010 18:25 (ten years ago) link

should *have* been, sorry.

Honey, I squirted jizz all over the baby (the table is the table), Saturday, 2 October 2010 18:25 (ten years ago) link

my 9/11: forbidden thot is that the whole subject is incredibly boring and i never want to hear anything about it ever again

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Saturday, 2 October 2010 18:33 (ten years ago) link

really

k3vin k., Saturday, 2 October 2010 18:40 (ten years ago) link

question mark

k3vin k., Saturday, 2 October 2010 18:40 (ten years ago) link

yea rly. and maybe my "boredom" is just a way of deflecting anxiety or something, i dunno, but i'm just not interested. if i pick up a novel, no matter who it's by, and see a blurb on the back noting that it "wresteles with the legacy of 9/11" or whatever, i immediately put it down and move along. shit makes my eyes glaze over, like sports scores or soap opera digest.

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Saturday, 2 October 2010 18:54 (ten years ago) link

My forbidden thought, 9/11 is all about American exceptionalism.

Yes, the death toll was very, very large for such a brief event, and the collapse of the WTC was unprecedented, in that 110 storey skyscrapers had never been destroyed before, mainly because there were so few of them. But viewed as a civic disaster, or as an attack on civilians, or as a deadly event, or through any gneralized lens or frame of reference, it is just one amid dozens and dozens of similar events in the past century.

What makes it so obssessive to modern Americans is that we do not expect to be attacked by our enemies in our "homeland". It is nearly unthinkable. This is also at the core of the Cold War hysteria, once the Russian Reds had The Bomb. And why we spend so fucking much on "defense".

The entire Eastern hemisphere has suffered so many wars, disasters and hatreds that they must find our reactions to 9/11 somewhat incomprehensible.

Aimless, Saturday, 2 October 2010 19:26 (ten years ago) link

yeah my forbidden thought follows the line of jesse's in that i had the "thrill of the nonbanal," but even more than that i sensed a weird and perverse kind of disappointment when i realized it wasnt going to get worse, that no more planes were gonna crash and the immediate drama was over.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 2 October 2010 21:15 (ten years ago) link

u are all disgusting human beings obv

horton whores a ho (crüt), Saturday, 2 October 2010 21:34 (ten years ago) link

maybe not so much a forbidden thought as much as an observation; as someone who works in documentary TV, it really seems like 9/11 is the "boy meets girl" for the entire genre. i.e. "what's our story angle gonna be about these cheese crumpets?" "well i had a shop on wall street on 9/11..." "WE'VE GOT A STORY!"

Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Saturday, 2 October 2010 21:35 (ten years ago) link

but even more than that i sensed a weird and perverse kind of disappointment when i realized it wasnt going to get worse, that no more planes were gonna crash and the immediate drama was over.

I actually felt the same thing, and I suspect a lot of people did even if they wouldn't admit it. really well put.

get off my lawn (rockapads), Saturday, 2 October 2010 21:44 (ten years ago) link

like, I wonder even if some of the more war-mongering types I've encountered, who had really strong reactions - even though they didn't personally know anyone who died nor ever spent time in NYC - were really just trying to hang onto the strong emotions they felt that day.

get off my lawn (rockapads), Saturday, 2 October 2010 21:48 (ten years ago) link

but even more than that i sensed a weird and perverse kind of disappointment when i realized it wasnt going to get worse, that no more planes were gonna crash and the immediate drama was over.

I actually felt the same thing, and I suspect a lot of people did even if they wouldn't admit it. really well put.

Completely know where you're coming from, i couldn't believe what i was seeing, but was kinda disappointed when it ended so quickly.
I still look for new footage and i'm equally as shocked when i see something new even though it's been such a long time.

not_goodwin, Saturday, 2 October 2010 21:55 (ten years ago) link

my first reaction to the planes hitting the towers was one of amazed amusement. i marvelled at the spectacle. was suprised how much it looked the same as what it would have looked like had it been a movie. then i thought about what it meant and what had actually happened - i didn't actually know what the WTC was but i knew an airliner and a tall building would certainly have a large number of people within them - and was bummed. watching the constant coverage i soon grew bored, just speculation and endless replays, telling you less than nothing. i went and played counterstrike.

Efraqueen Juárez (jim in glasgow), Saturday, 2 October 2010 21:58 (ten years ago) link

I immediately thought about how this might benefit Bush. not really an appropriate time for partisan fearmongering, but I hated him even then.

officer i didn't know it was a penguin (San Te), Saturday, 2 October 2010 22:10 (ten years ago) link

I remember saying something like "we're fucked" b/c W. was our president. At that time I wasn't even paying much attention to him, but I guess it would be hard to not at least be aware that he is a fuck-up.

dumplings (Jesse), Saturday, 2 October 2010 22:38 (ten years ago) link

Is it surprising to anyone else how there are pretty much NO photos or videos of body parts and other carnage? Sometimes I think that it's a case mass self-censorship (I mean that in a good way).

dumplings (Jesse), Saturday, 2 October 2010 22:42 (ten years ago) link

There are photos of body parts and carnage. Believe me, you don't want to see them.

David Allah Coal (sexyDancer), Saturday, 2 October 2010 22:54 (ten years ago) link

I worked at a photo agency at the time (just down the street from the towers as a matter of fact).
What a human being looks like after falling 100 stories is nothing you want in your mind.

David Allah Coal (sexyDancer), Saturday, 2 October 2010 22:56 (ten years ago) link

wait wait wait, when did HOOS return?

Honey, I squirted jizz all over the baby (the table is the table), Saturday, 2 October 2010 22:56 (ten years ago) link

I'm just surprised that those photos haven't leaked and become more widely available. Not that I want to see them.

Now that I think of it, another "forbidden" thought I had on 9/11 was a curiosity about the carnage.

dumplings (Jesse), Saturday, 2 October 2010 23:10 (ten years ago) link

HOOS was zorn_bond.mp3 and is now back under his old name temporarily

officer i didn't know it was a penguin (San Te), Saturday, 2 October 2010 23:40 (ten years ago) link

DUMPLINGS! - just out of curiosity (not to be a dick, honestly), but did you forget you had posted the Taliban-spiking-cocaine story in the thread revive when you mentioned it again 40 minutes later? I ask because I did the same thing the other day and it struck me as a sort of exclusively ILX-related symptom

She Got the Shakes, Saturday, 2 October 2010 23:46 (ten years ago) link

I don't know why it capitalized your name that way. I didn't write it that way, with the exclamation point. Weird.

She Got the Shakes, Saturday, 2 October 2010 23:46 (ten years ago) link

basically there is no way i ever want to see anything more about 9/11 footage-wise and i'm leaving the actual carnage to the imagination forever. not a fan of fiction or cinema or music that "grapples" with 9/11 either or inserts it in as the big foreboding event to come or the event from the past driving the narrative.

('_') (omar little), Saturday, 2 October 2010 23:48 (ten years ago) link

Omar just summed it all up for me.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 2 October 2010 23:49 (ten years ago) link

also when i have seen footage on tv in recent years, they always--no matter what it is--do something like show the plane flying towards the south tower and then fade or freeze before the impact, or show a person slipping or jumping from an open window and then doing the same thing. that kind of refinement weirds me out.

('_') (omar little), Saturday, 2 October 2010 23:50 (ten years ago) link

WTF. When I posted it the second time I thought I had only been thinking about it or that I had said it aloud to someone earlier. I'm pushing 36 here, so cut me some slack!

On ILX the word DUMPLINGS! automatically gets capitalized and exclamation pointed. That's not a joke, it's true.

dumplings (Jesse), Saturday, 2 October 2010 23:53 (ten years ago) link

well it's actually a joke too

k3vin k., Sunday, 3 October 2010 00:05 (ten years ago) link

Omar is OTM, but I can't stop imagining what happened inside the towers. I think a lot about the stockbroker checking his e-mail in his corner office, glimpsing out of the corner of his eye an airplane flying across midtown Manhattan. I try to put myself into the shoes of someone who 60 seconds later became human remains on a sidewalk and conjure up what their last thoughts may have been.

These people are like JFK. Fifty years later, there will be talk and movies and discussion and rude gifs4you, and Kennedy's the only one who has no idea what happened next. The Pentagon, Flight 93, Bush, Anthrax, Iraq, Afghanistan, no Cokes on airplane flights.... all those people in the first tower knew was that their lives were about to end. And then nothing.

It's like I'm writing horrible slash fiction in my head, which I figure qualifies as a 9/11 Forbidden Thought. But I can't help it.

http://tinyurl.com/hommphommp (Pleasant Plains), Sunday, 3 October 2010 00:09 (ten years ago) link

yeah, PP's first paragraph applies to me, too.

I remember saying something like "we're fucked" b/c W. was our president.

i went through a roller-coaster on this emotionally. the day of the attack, i wished that clinton was still president (especially watching the footage the next day of him comforting people in NYC). a few days later, i was impressed with how GWB handled himself -- perfect for the moment (arm draped over the firefighter, megaphone in hand, talking to the crowd). then, there was the unfortunate next 7 years of his tenure.

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 3 October 2010 00:32 (ten years ago) link

WTF. When I posted it the second time I thought I had only been thinking about it or that I had said it aloud to someone earlier. I'm pushing 36 here, so cut me some slack!

I'm 35 and this just happened to me a couple of days ago as well. I don't know what to make of it.

Anyway - I remember on that morning I has just arrived to work in Midtown Manhattan and after they closed our building, I had to walk home to Brooklyn (along with hundreds or thousands of other people). At some point I realized I was walking alongside someone I admired from a band I liked. I got kind of excited for a couple of minutes, then I felt really guilty. Whenever I hear that band, ever since then, I can only think of that morning.

My other memory was stopping somewhere near the Brooklyn Bridge and buying a smoothie from a shop that was open. I also felt guilty about that.

She Got the Shakes, Sunday, 3 October 2010 00:41 (ten years ago) link

A celeb sighting in NYC on 9/11 would be sort of surreal.

dumplings (Jesse), Sunday, 3 October 2010 01:06 (ten years ago) link

vaguely vaughn meader moment - i was working at wuxtry, this record store in town, and i remember this local synthpop band 'i am the world trade center' were supposed to play a show that weekend, and we were talking and wondering 'so...what are they gonna do?' and our boss suggesting ppl should go to the show and throw paper airplanes at them and this is pretty definitely the first time i was able to laugh 'at' 9/11. this would've been on 9/12.

balls, Sunday, 3 October 2010 01:46 (ten years ago) link

After going through the initial shock/sadness/rage -- not just at what happened, but also at the coming racist bullshitstorm headed towards people of Middle Eastern descent in the US -- I was glad that I'd bought an import copy of Mercury Rev's All Is Dream the previous Sunday (it was released in the US on 9/11), so that I didn't automatically associate those songs with 9/11. But I do anyway.

Sterling-Kinney (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 3 October 2010 05:45 (ten years ago) link

four years pass...

This isn't really a "forbidden thought" but I just want to write down somewhere that in spite of all my good sense I've been having this terrible, anxious, irritable feeling all day and thinking "something bad is going to happen" without realizing what day it was, and I even had this very bizarre moment at my daughter's preschool orientation where there was one dude who for some reason just looked slightly shady and undadlike to me and I had this dumb thought "maybe he has a gun" and then my veins started pounding and I could feel heat coming off my neck.

on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 11 September 2015 02:06 (six years ago) link

I think actually the Syrian refugee stories are affecting me as much as anything (though it's all connected), just keep thinking about the tenuous nature of our society and all that fun stuff.

on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 11 September 2015 02:07 (six years ago) link

i work less than a mile from the WTC now, really hope i don't run into a single commemorative thing all day tomorrow, and really think the USA needs to get the motherfuck over it after 14 years.

i've also convinced myself that going down to Brooklyn Heights that evening and breathing in the dust eventually gave me cancer, so there's that.

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 September 2015 03:13 (six years ago) link

I keep thinking about how the onslaught of "I had just stepped inside after walking my dog when suddenly I heard the news" posts are about to pop up again tomorrow and cringing.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Friday, 11 September 2015 03:17 (six years ago) link

I actually forgot all about 9/11 and not a single person I know has mentioned it.

I checked Snoops , and it is for real (Trayce), Friday, 11 September 2015 06:44 (six years ago) link

I mean er, I forgot thats what today was.

I checked Snoops , and it is for real (Trayce), Friday, 11 September 2015 06:44 (six years ago) link

I keep thinking about how the onslaught of "I had just stepped inside after walking my dog when suddenly I heard the news" posts are about to pop up again tomorrow and cringing.

If people still need to work through shit 14 years after the fact, I'm not gonna shut them down. I was 900 miles away in Nashville where nothing happened and I still think about that day all the time.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 11 September 2015 07:16 (six years ago) link

Everyday life for people like me is pretty banal, and big shake-ups can be fascinating.

Truth. The huge electricity shut-down/blackout of 2003 was a pure guilty pleasure in that way. I was grateful that there hadn't been a attack or a massive loss of life so I could just enjoy the hell outta the disruption.

Orson Wellies (in orbit), Friday, 11 September 2015 10:38 (six years ago) link

Atty general for Texas tweeted that out today.

I don't know what the context of white dudes drinking out of red cups before 9 o'clock on a Tuesday morning, but it was a weird tweet nonetheless.

pplains, Sunday, 12 September 2021 05:17 (six days ago) link

Their last kegger

Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Sunday, 12 September 2021 06:29 (six days ago) link

1) i’m definitely over random ppl just posting tourist photos of themselves visiting the WTC ~whenever~

2) i’m at the point where i want every rando to stfu & leave space for ppl directly affected to talk or post photos if they need it. rest of world, just fuckin can it for ONE DAY.

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 12 September 2021 06:33 (six days ago) link

Oh my, speaking of randos who might need to stfu

I’m not sure I have ever seen someone give a speech at a formal occasion as drunk as Rudy Giuliani is right now at the 9/11 dinner. pic.twitter.com/54G5oCuBe3

— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) September 12, 2021

Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Sunday, 12 September 2021 06:36 (six days ago) link

And another thought about @EmmaRaducanu and #leylahfernandez: neither had been born when 9/11 happened - underlines why memorials, like today’s are so important. #USOpen2021 #911NeverForget

— Jon Sopel (@BBCJonSopel) September 11, 2021

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 12 September 2021 07:46 (six days ago) link

There was a 10-minute "a point of view" from David Cannadine on Radio 4 once called "anniversary cornucopia" and it was just a series of "observations" of exactly this sort, honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 12 September 2021 08:04 (six days ago) link

A new challenger enters the ring

Tulsi Gabbard- I posted the most fucked up 9/11 post

Marjorie Taylor Greene- hold my beer pic.twitter.com/FRXhi83Wur

— TulsiGabbardIsABigot (@NThis81) September 11, 2021

Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Sunday, 12 September 2021 13:00 (six days ago) link

On this anniversary of the release of The Two Towers I did the My Freedoms Donut Challenge where I gorged on a dozen Krispy Kremes in remembrance of all the martyrs being forced to vaccinate by Senile Joe. Never forget, 7-11.

Marty J. Bilge (Old Lunch), Sunday, 12 September 2021 13:36 (six days ago) link

On the third anniversary of Good Burger I ate a very bad burger

Duke Detain (Neanderthal), Sunday, 12 September 2021 14:33 (six days ago) link

"a way to suffer and reflect on heroes" for October politics thread title.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 12 September 2021 16:07 (six days ago) link

Putting the cross back in crossfit

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Sunday, 12 September 2021 16:12 (six days ago) link

During a moment of silence for 9/11, a woman started shouting and had to be kicked out of the Triller Fight Club Holyfield - Belfort event.

Language is NSFW.pic.twitter.com/zsIfDv6j0R

— The Big Lead (@TheBigLead) September 12, 2021

mh, Sunday, 12 September 2021 16:51 (six days ago) link

the Wolf of Wall Street fought Evander Holyfield?

Duke Detain (Neanderthal), Sunday, 12 September 2021 16:52 (six days ago) link

"Sell me this ear..."

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 12 September 2021 16:59 (six days ago) link

I foresee the traditional Moment of Silence being supplanted in America with the Moment of Incoherent Bellowing, it's just how we demonstrate our reverence now

Marty J. Bilge (Old Lunch), Sunday, 12 September 2021 17:20 (six days ago) link

Eventually "Amen" will be replaced by "fuck yeah, bro" in most churches.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 12 September 2021 17:59 (six days ago) link

This day will forever be remembered, to those who lost loved ones my condolences. #bransoncognac #lecheminduroi pic.twitter.com/V9cN02Xigd

— 50cent (@50cent) September 11, 2021

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 12 September 2021 18:27 (six days ago) link

pure class is that lad 👏👏👏

calzino, Sunday, 12 September 2021 18:52 (six days ago) link

tbf I had the same reaction to the immediate post-9/11 "New Yorkers are the best people" / "New York is the greatest city etc.," because, like, those pansies in Baltimore or Berlin or Buffalo would have simply crumpled

― Richard Marxist (Ye Mad Puffin),

Fwiw I think New Yorkers' ability to pull together has been exaggerated, or at least is not something unique to NYC, that most everyone else does just as well or better.

New Yorkers are the people who won't be put off by public displays of neuroses, like some might be perturbed if as a total stranger you were to complain to them in an aggravated way about your frustrations with the publuc transit service, they may even fear your hostility could be turned against them. But not a New Yorker, we are more likely to appreciate the display of solidarity.

I feel like in NYC it's pretty much acceptable in most circumstances to interject in an overheard conversation that total strangers are having if you are passionate about the topic and/or have something to add. I explained this to a friend from Holland who was visiting and he was absolutely horrified.

There are just certain behaviors that I feel wouldn't fly anywhere else, but that seem perfectly normal to me. In some places people would think i'm nuts, and they wouldn't be wrong but it's nice that i'm able to get along to whatever degree of getting along this is.

The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Monday, 13 September 2021 01:50 (five days ago) link

Rudy rolled into the 9/11 dinner drunk out of his mind tonight. Here he is giving his Queen Elisabeth impression, and assuring the audience he was never with a young girl and Prince Andrew. pic.twitter.com/U40YSzS34X

— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) September 12, 2021

xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 September 2021 07:36 (five days ago) link

Navy flag, American flag, and McDonald’s flag still at half-staff on 9/12 here at Gitmo. pic.twitter.com/Su3gb3tfTc

— Jerry Dunleavy (@JerryDunleavy) September 12, 2021

Sam Weller, Monday, 13 September 2021 08:18 (five days ago) link

McDonalds one is for an unrelated incident

nashwan, Monday, 13 September 2021 09:14 (five days ago) link

rip mayor mccheese

Richard Marxist (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 13 September 2021 11:25 (five days ago) link

America's Burger

I Am Fribbulus (Xax) (Doctor Casino), Monday, 13 September 2021 11:45 (five days ago) link

20 years later and they still haven't rebuilt the Golden Arches

...

https://i.gifer.com/fetch/w300-preview/47/47619e5bca9708b1e5b88bb23ac236e7.gif

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 13 September 2021 13:51 (five days ago) link

I foresee the traditional Moment of Silence being supplanted in America with the Moment of Incoherent Bellowing, it's just how we demonstrate our reverence now

"Oh I thought it was time for Two Minutes of Hate."

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 13 September 2021 13:58 (five days ago) link

1) i’m definitely over random ppl just posting tourist photos of themselves visiting the WTC ~whenever~

2) i’m at the point where i want every rando to stfu & leave space for ppl directly affected to talk or post photos if they need it. rest of world, just fuckin can it for ONE DAY.

― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, September 11, 2021 11:33 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Tbh, every single living person in the US continues to be directly affected, there is no way any reasonable person should accept the idea that only those who "lost people" were directly affected. All of our lives would be measurably different, and to be honest, probably a lot fucking better.

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 13 September 2021 15:17 (five days ago) link

And of course, that's to say nothing of the millions of Iraqi and Afghani citizens who, yknow, were murdered due to US imperial bloodlust.

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 13 September 2021 15:18 (five days ago) link

so why did saudi arabia participate/primarily drive the attack? i am completely ignorant. certain faction of religious zealots in the govt? trying to get us more mired in the middle east to aserve their interests? some kind of straightforward financial motive?

global tetrahedron, Monday, 13 September 2021 15:25 (five days ago) link

There aren't any direct answers, but it seems pretty likely that— surprise— the US was working in concert with Saudi Arabia and a number of other regional interests to build more extractive infrastructure in Afghanistan.

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 13 September 2021 15:38 (five days ago) link

Getting closer to September 2001, that year had seen a series of negotiations between the Taliban and a U.S.-led coalition regarding the creation of a new unity government in Afghanistan.

According to attendee Niaz Naik, former Pakistani Minister for Foreign Affairs, “If the Taliban had accepted this coalition, they would have immediately received international economic aid … And the pipelines from Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan would have come.”

Naik also stated that Tom Simons, a U.S. representative at the talks, told them that “‘either the Taliban behave as they ought to, or Pakistan convinces them to do so, or we will use another option.’ The words Simons used were ‘a military operation.’”

Such would apparently come to pass after the negotiations broke down. On September 4, 2001, the Bush cabinet authorized the drafting of a new National Security Presidential Directive (NSPD). This document, NSDP-9, called for a sizable covert action initiative which included U.S. ground troops and Northern Alliance forces in Afghanistan.

Ahmed Shah Massoud, the leader of the Northern Alliance, was dead set against U.S. ground troops in Afghanistan but, on September 9, 2001, he was conveniently assassinated, likely with U.S. complicity on some level.

The next day, on September 10, a second NSDP-9 related meeting was held, focusing on various details of the U.S. military and political plans for Afghanistan.

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 13 September 2021 15:40 (five days ago) link

Then, on September 11...

I know that some of this stuff dwells in the land of conspiracy and paranoid spy-speak, but I really don't put it past US hegemonic interests to orchestrate a mass murder of its own citizens so as to better get at natural resources elsewhere.

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 13 September 2021 15:43 (five days ago) link

I know that some of this stuff dwells in the land of conspiracy and paranoid spy-speak, but I really don't put it past US hegemonic interests to orchestrate a mass murder of its own citizens so as to better get at natural resources elsewhere.

oh trust me, my thoughts on this would probably get me laughed off the board

global tetrahedron, Monday, 13 September 2021 15:50 (five days ago) link

I welcome your thoughts, personally.

I was about to turn 17. I remember that we had an emergency assembly between when the first plane and second plane hit. I went to a Quaker high school, so it was a very gentle assembly, with talk of "holding people in the light," and so on. I only remember three things from the rest of that day.

1) Saying to my friend Richard, "We're going to start a war in the Middle East, probably against Palestine or Iraq"
2) Watching the second plane hit on live television in my beloved biology teacher's classroom
3) Having a screaming match with my father later that evening where I called him a "bloodthirsty pigfucker"

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 13 September 2021 15:56 (five days ago) link

One of Al-Queda's main beefs with the US was the military bases in Saudi Arabia--particularly because Mecca is there. A cool idea we had later was that we wouldn't need the bases there anymore if we invaded Iraq. Problem solved.

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 13 September 2021 16:02 (five days ago) link

i know this is the forbidden thoughts thread but can we please not do inside job talk this week

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, 13 September 2021 16:10 (five days ago) link

i'm keeping mum

global tetrahedron, Monday, 13 September 2021 16:11 (five days ago) link

The twentieth anniversary of 9/11 was going to be an inside job but it was moved to an outdoor venue due to COVID concerns.

Marty J. Bilge (Old Lunch), Monday, 13 September 2021 16:15 (five days ago) link

guys do you want to summon the 'Lorax

you had me at "giallo" (Neanderthal), Monday, 13 September 2021 16:18 (five days ago) link

i know this is the forbidden thoughts thread but can we please not do inside job talk this week

― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, September 13, 2021 9:10 AM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Well I guess so many in the US have ignored glaring and obvious reality for the past twenty years, what's one more week.

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 13 September 2021 16:26 (five days ago) link

xpost to table

i expressed myself poorly, i didnt mean that anyone who wasnt there wasnt affected. apologies for any offence caused to you or anyone else itt

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 13 September 2021 16:39 (five days ago) link

9/11 was an inside job by Jonathan Safran Foer so he'd have something to write about

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 13 September 2021 16:47 (five days ago) link

Leo Phoenix lives

you had me at "giallo" (Neanderthal), Monday, 13 September 2021 16:47 (five days ago) link

Hi VG, I wasn't offended, I just get very...uh...polemical about how the reverberations of this event have quite literally led to the deaths of millions. 3100 people dead is a horror, of course, but millions of people? Unbearable to think about, but we must.

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 13 September 2021 17:01 (five days ago) link

shameful lol

Marty J. Bilge (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 September 2021 01:06 (three days ago) link

so why did saudi arabia participate/primarily drive the attack? i am completely ignorant. certain faction of religious zealots in the govt? trying to get us more mired in the middle east to aserve their interests?

I don't think there are good answers. The long game of inciting a war that eventually gets us to take out Saddam (only to be replaced with a state in Iran's orbit?) feels like a big stretch. I'd guess more along the lines of some religious radicals wanted to do it and the people above them couldn't afford to piss them off/stop them.

papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 15 September 2021 01:19 (three days ago) link

Norm Macdonald setting up Andy Dick to laugh at a 9/11 joke... 😂😂😂#NormMacDonald #911remembrance #NeverForget911 pic.twitter.com/LGZcGdX2qy

— Zombie🤬Sexbot (@ZombieSexbot) September 12, 2018

pplains, Wednesday, 15 September 2021 01:48 (three days ago) link


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