GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

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So it seemed like a few people on ILX did not like Tiny Furniture, but I did, I like Lena and I am really anticipating GIRLS. No doubt we'll talk about all this here as we anticipate the show and all try to look smart (I'm smart, btw).
http://www.tvequals.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Girls-HBO.jpg

killa amc (admrl), Saturday, 24 March 2012 12:35 (seven years ago) Permalink

I guess we can talk about this too: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/05/lena-dunham-weight_n_1321414.html

Obviously that story itself is not interesting or special (jn fact it is idiotic), but it does raise some larger questions worth considering although goodness knows we should be more evolved than this by now

killa amc (admrl), Saturday, 24 March 2012 12:38 (seven years ago) Permalink

Wanna be appalled? go to the criterion forum and read the Tiny Furniture thread. Total fanboy meltdown.

Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 24 March 2012 12:46 (seven years ago) Permalink

ok i just read a few pages of this^ and suddenly i want to become her biggest champion

althea and (donna rouge), Saturday, 24 March 2012 19:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

(i haven't seen anything she's done tho)

althea and (donna rouge), Saturday, 24 March 2012 19:26 (seven years ago) Permalink

still haven't seen tiny furniture; need to get on that. read two paragraphs of that story about the complaint about her weight. couldn't read any further.

horseshoe, Saturday, 24 March 2012 19:27 (seven years ago) Permalink

criterion fandorks who complain about WHY ARE THEY RELEASING X FILM AND NOT Y?!?! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE = shut up shut up shut up you are the fucking worst

althea and (donna rouge), Saturday, 24 March 2012 19:32 (seven years ago) Permalink

I didn't really care for Tiny Furniture on the whole. Lena Dunham seemed like someone who's talented but (unsurprisingly) a little too solipsistic to adequately wield her talent. I'll give her show a shot in the hope that she's matured a bit.

Arnold Drummond, Process Server (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 24 March 2012 19:46 (seven years ago) Permalink

Tiny furniture is one of those movies with about zero sympathetic characters. And I really couldn't figure out if I was actually supposed to think that or not.

lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Saturday, 24 March 2012 19:54 (seven years ago) Permalink

I liked Tiny Furniture and am looking forward to this show.

polyphonic, Saturday, 24 March 2012 20:26 (seven years ago) Permalink

I agree completely, chinavision. And I think Dunham was at least canny enough for that to have been intentional. I just don't think she was canny enough to make the overall experience appealing or thought-provoking enough for me to like the film.

Arnold Drummond, Process Server (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 24 March 2012 20:39 (seven years ago) Permalink

I do want to give her props on a number of fronts. I just can't give her props for cohering those fronts into a particularly good movie.

Arnold Drummond, Process Server (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 24 March 2012 20:40 (seven years ago) Permalink

totally dug tiny furniture

max, Saturday, 24 March 2012 20:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

i sympathized with most of the characters in tiny furniture? i mean they did a lot of stupid shit but no one was really hateful, besides i guess the two guys.

max, Saturday, 24 March 2012 20:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

guardian interview - http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2012/mar/23/lena-dunham-tiny-furniture-emma-brockes

just sayin, Saturday, 24 March 2012 21:09 (seven years ago) Permalink

I'm seriously hyped about this; she's way funnier and more clever than she has any right to be.

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:22 (seven years ago) Permalink

i also got a little crush on her y cuz she's smart

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:23 (seven years ago) Permalink

Watched Tiny Furniture on the weekend. It's the kind of thing i normally hate but she won me over by the end.

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:53 (seven years ago) Permalink

tiny furniture is pretty interesting. i thought it would be funny but kinda frothy, and instead i thought it said some pretty interesting things, way more than it was an amusing film. like (SPOILERS, I GUESS) the more it committed to refusing the sweet narrative arc you'd expect to unkink & take over - her remembering how lovely Frankie was, or arriving at some kind of agreeable romantic situation - the more it seemed like good, lacerating, self-loathing criticism of dumb, shortsighted early life blundering.

the nyer profile from a while back is good reading also

john-claude van donne (schlump), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:02 (seven years ago) Permalink

just watched 'tiny furniture' and was surprised by how much i (and especially my gf) enjoyed it.

40oz of tears (Jordan), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:07 (seven years ago) Permalink

the pipe scene was the clincher

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:08 (seven years ago) Permalink

yeah, agreed.
the pat on the thigh from spent dude was just painfully real.

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:18 (seven years ago) Permalink

i channel surfed through Tiny Furniture for a few minutes recently and could barely stand it, the direction/acting was like kevin smith-level bad

ferrante's inferranteno (some dude), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:21 (seven years ago) Permalink

"In the street?"
"No, worse than that"

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:22 (seven years ago) Permalink

Dunham is curating a mini-fest where i work called Hey, girlfriend. bummed i missed mulholland drive last night (one of her picks)

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:23 (seven years ago) Permalink

at least i have seen it on the big screen b4 tho

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:24 (seven years ago) Permalink

twice actually!

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

haven't seen any of her stuff, she's doing several days of film 'presenting' at BAM, tonight w/ Whit Stillman.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:26 (seven years ago) Permalink

i sympathized with most of the characters in tiny furniture?

haha me too

i saw one of the episodes on the weekend it was... idk, im p excited to watch them properly but it was a bit of a mess. theres a lot of ambivalence in general i guess

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:27 (seven years ago) Permalink

Tiny Furniture was horrific but she might do okay in a TV format. As long as she's not directing.

Simon H., Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:30 (seven years ago) Permalink

oops hey i missed surm's posts, sorry.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:34 (seven years ago) Permalink

some dude OTM about Tiny Furniture's filmmaking, but I also can't find it in myself to give a shit about the problems of an educated rich kid in this hard hard world of moving back into the 'rents multimillion dollar loft.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:27 (seven years ago) Permalink

still going to give Girls a shot, maybe there will be characters who aren't hateable

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:28 (seven years ago) Permalink

I think she's more self-aware than people who offer that criticism realize

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:30 (seven years ago) Permalink

I think she is sorta cute and seems fun and smart

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:31 (seven years ago) Permalink

"WKIW", as I believe you say

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:32 (seven years ago) Permalink

Like the scene where she has the big argument with her mother and she's all "I'm 22 and i just graduated and i got my first job". I have to believe that was somewhat tongue in cheek

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:34 (seven years ago) Permalink

I don't think it was, or that the entire movie was one big self-aware joke at the expense of overprivileged twentysomethings... but I'm not sure that it would improve things had that been her intention.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:36 (seven years ago) Permalink

i like how the friend from ohio felt like a protagonist that wandered in from some other (slightly more conventional) movie

40oz of tears (Jordan), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:38 (seven years ago) Permalink

That's another thing. She tells her friend a day before she moves to New York that she's not going to move in with her, avoids all her calls, blows her off at the art thing cos that dude turns up etc. It has to be a joke, right?

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:40 (seven years ago) Permalink

idk it's all part & parcel of being an actual horrible, spoiled 20-something

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:41 (seven years ago) Permalink

the character, not lena i mean

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (seven years ago) Permalink

I think there was a degree of self-awareness on display in Tiny Furniture, but probably not the degree of self-awareness that she might've had if she'd waited a couple more years to make it.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (seven years ago) Permalink

Which is a lot of why I'm open to Girls being more "my thing".

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (seven years ago) Permalink

its not a "joke" but it is "self-aware"

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (seven years ago) Permalink

Yeah but she didn't. She made it when she was like 23/24 and it's pretty much ABOUT being that age.

xxp

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (seven years ago) Permalink

I mean, she was self-aware enough to not portray her character as a completely sympathetic protagonist (see: the treatment of her friend from Ohio) but I don't know that she was as aware of her character's/her own level of privilege as I would've liked.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

It's certainly no less self-aware than you might hope/expect given the age and status of the filmmaker.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

Why does she have to apologize to you for being rich

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

xp. “I didn’t have the ‘insider information’ I claimed but rather blind faith"

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:12 (five months ago) Permalink

Probably

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:12 (five months ago) Permalink

Her ability to repeatedly kick herself in the junk is incredible.

louise ck (milo z), Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:13 (five months ago) Permalink

Okay. “I believed my friend who privately assured me it wasn’t true” . “she made up stuff” is reaching.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:15 (five months ago) Permalink

She misrepresented the quality of the information she had, implying it was more than just a private assurance. It was bad so she apologized.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:16 (five months ago) Permalink

if you're going to defend her at least read what it actually says nerdstrom. She admitted that she lied. She claimed to have some kind of specific knowledge that she didn't actually have.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:16 (five months ago) Permalink

if nerdstrom isn't 51'd some day soon I'm going to... do nothing at all

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:16 (five months ago) Permalink

fp'd myself for troll feeding

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:17 (five months ago) Permalink

That’s very big of you Jim I appreciate that

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:31 (five months ago) Permalink

ironic revive given that I just re-watched the #metoo GIRLS episode (which was better than I remembered it tbh)

Οὖτις, Thursday, 6 December 2018 21:44 (five months ago) Permalink

was one of the best girls episodes imo, like many of the eps where dunham gets the writing credit

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 6 December 2018 22:57 (five months ago) Permalink

the final shot of this parade of women going up to the guy's door was v good and maybe the only time the show deviated from its commitment to realism...?

Οὖτις, Thursday, 6 December 2018 23:11 (five months ago) Permalink

this is the thread where i finally agree nerdstrom is gabnebb

Bênoit Balls (stevie), Friday, 7 December 2018 14:27 (five months ago) Permalink

speaking of Dunham I'd been kind of enjoying Camping which she produces and cowrites and just learned that this was a UK show first. But I seem to be unable to find the British version in any streaming services or even in a torrent. Is it available anywhere?

akm, Friday, 7 December 2018 17:49 (five months ago) Permalink

I couldn't make it through the first episode of that. Had no idea there was a UK version.

Οὖτις, Friday, 7 December 2018 18:05 (five months ago) Permalink

The, actually good, UK version is on dailymotion (and seemingly nowhere else)

Search username 'couchtripper'

Number None, Friday, 7 December 2018 18:21 (five months ago) Permalink

But I seem to be unable to find the British version in any streaming services or even in a torrent.

It was made for Sky Atlantic, so is probably exclusive to their streaming service (which possibly only runs on hardware that you have to order from them in the UK?)

you can stream it illegally though

sans lep (sic), Friday, 7 December 2018 18:58 (five months ago) Permalink

xpost, had this tab open for an hour

sans lep (sic), Friday, 7 December 2018 18:58 (five months ago) Permalink

i haven't seen camping (uk) but julia davis is a genius

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 7 December 2018 19:09 (five months ago) Permalink

I'm still surprised no one stole it off Sky while running and threw files up on torrent sites though. Ok well this will work.

US version is not so bad though Jennifer Garner is the worst thing about it. Jennifer Lewis is amusing.

akm, Friday, 7 December 2018 19:26 (five months ago) Permalink

yeah, I couldn't take how insufferable Garner was

Οὖτις, Friday, 7 December 2018 19:27 (five months ago) Permalink

she's not suppose to be likable in any way shape or form so in that respect it works but still.

akm, Friday, 7 December 2018 19:34 (five months ago) Permalink

IDG the point of wholly unlikeable protagonists. Seems like it's just a defense mechanism for not actually knowing how to write a likeable protagonist.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 7 December 2018 19:48 (five months ago) Permalink

the only goal of a writing a protagonist is not likeability? it can also be an effective protagonist if you recognize yourself in them, and it's a unique type of success if you can make a wholly unlikeable character that your audience sees themself in. i'm not here to defend girls (altho i guess i liked parts of it) but the "why unlikeable protagonists" thing is a bit of a bugbear, like wishing everyone in wrestling was a babyface or something

teen heartthrob Pacey Winger (Will M.), Friday, 7 December 2018 19:59 (five months ago) Permalink

IDK where I said "the only goal of writing a protagonist is likeability." But "wholly unlikeable" is not something I want to see very often. It seems very navel-gazing to write too many protagonists like that, basically reveling in your moral faults.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:08 (five months ago) Permalink

julia davis writes very black comedy and her characters are often horrible. i don't know if it will translate to american tv tbh. cf. how much more likable Michael Scott in the Office (US) is versus David Brent in the Office (UK).

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:10 (five months ago) Permalink

I don't watch the US Office, but I kind of don't think of those characters as "protagonists."

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:12 (five months ago) Permalink

But even the shows where you "laugh at" the assholes wear on me after a while. I guess I liked David Brent because he had a tragic quality. But I'm sort of tired of the "everyone's a self-involved asshole" formula for shows that seems to descend from Seinfeld through Arrested Development (even though that show was at times very funny) to Transparent, and maybe also It's Always Sunny from what I've heard (haven't watched).

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:16 (five months ago) Permalink

it's always sunny is very much like the next level after seinfeld

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:19 (five months ago) Permalink

it's also better than Seinfeld

Οὖτις, Friday, 7 December 2018 20:21 (five months ago) Permalink

Curb >>>

flappy bird, Friday, 7 December 2018 20:27 (five months ago) Permalink

There's probably a better thread for this but has anyone been watching the Julia Davis show "Sally4ever" on HBO? Last episode was something else

badg, Friday, 7 December 2018 21:43 (five months ago) Permalink

the poo one? that's where I stopped while binging this last night. I didn't think it was possible for me to still be shocked by something

akm, Monday, 10 December 2018 20:41 (five months ago) Permalink

Yep that's the one

badg, Monday, 10 December 2018 21:04 (five months ago) Permalink

four months pass...

I haven't read the thread yet but I just finished the Girls. Started around Xmas. I watched the first season when it aired in 2012 but never saw anything else - not out of disinterest just circumstance, but also Lena Dunham's public persona and infinite controversies were so overwhelming and a comparable body of work in their own right that I felt too distracted to watch the show on its own terms. I'm so glad I waited two years after it ended to come back and go through the whole show. I didn't watch any of the making of segments or commentary or read along in here.

A few things - it's the show of the decade, a key millennial text that will endure for decades, and Hannah Horvath is among the most deftly written characters I've ever encountered (and deeply sympathetic while often objectively despicable - this is a great achievement). I started noticing the direction about halfway through the show, and one shot in particular, from I think the first episode of season four, where Hannah and Marnie embrace on the floor, the way Dunham cut and framed them was straight out of Bergman. A few weeks later I saw her Criterion Top 10 and sure enough Through a Glass Darkly was on there, with a typically inexplicable and unintentionally hilarious comment: "Like for many Americans, incest is a rough area for me. I just have a natural aversion to it."

I prefer not to think of her public persona, her rich kid ignorance and blinding narcissism, because I don't think she's succeeded as a provocateur in that realm. Almost everything she's done or said or been embroiled in has hurt her work and made more people turn away and even more people - including myself - not even bother because it was all too much to take. But now the dust has settled and she's kept a relatively low profile since the show ended and I could watch it with an even head. And I loved it. The writing, the direction, the performances - all consistently stellar. And what an accomplishment in Hannah and her characterization. She's the only one who "figured it out" and grew up, and it happened as soon as she decided to keep the baby. How awful the rest of them seemed in comparison, still so feckless and desperate and caught up in petty dramas - Hannah is the one that grows up. Marnie is a fucking psychopath and I don't like that she was in the last episode, "I'm your best friend - I WON!" - I'm surprised Hannah didn't kick her out then. Shoshana found her people and she's right, these women have nothing in common any more. I assumed Jessa would end up lost, but Adam's devolution was surprising I suppose, and that last episode with them was heartbreaking and masterfully done (of course she made the right decision - and that this could all be expressed without a single word - oh my god!).

Despite that demon Marnie leeching off Hannah and "winning" in the end, I'm happy where it ended up. Hannah is the only one that gets it and succeeded- Marnie is clearly out of her mind, Shosh and Jessa sort of get it but seemed doomed to repeat their mistakes (Shosh met her fiancé what, a month ago?).

Hannah singing "Fast Car" to her child alone - I wept, because I believe it, I believe they'll make it, it'll be really hard but I believe they'll make it. Few could've written a character as complex, frustrating, impulsive, narcissistic, and irresponsible as Hannah Horvath and move her to a place where you trust her with a child on her own. What a show. Thank You Lena

flappy bird, Sunday, 28 April 2019 00:59 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I think it depends on who you are relative to the main protagonist(s). I watched up until the the surf lessons/sex instructor episode and I was done in by laziness. You see brilliance, I saw the last of my upper most inner eyelids.

It was indeed fresher when it was releases in the moment.

Yerac, Sunday, 28 April 2019 02:56 (four weeks ago) Permalink

felt like the second to last episode would have been a better ending

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 28 April 2019 03:19 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I know there was a baby plotline near the end and I really was terribly, completely over it by hearing that,. So lazy, so self indulgent.

Yerac, Sunday, 28 April 2019 03:24 (four weeks ago) Permalink

felt like the second to last episode would have been a better ending

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown)

I feel like it's crucial for Hannah to end up alone with her baby though - even though Marnie and her mom are downstairs, but it ends with Hannah and her son upstairs, singing Fast Car. I watched the whole show in 4 months instead of 5 years, and it absolutely benefitted from that, like most shows would. I thought the scope of the show would be bigger than it was, and the situations basically become entrenched in season 4. the more I think about it the more disappointed I am that Marnie was given any quarter after sneaking into Hannah's house in Poughkeepsie and sleeping in her bed and going on her bone-chilling "I won" rant. I have to know Dunham & Konner & Apatow take on Marnie but I'm not ready. How can anyone see this person as anything but a monster, and by far the worst of the bunch?

flappy bird, Sunday, 28 April 2019 04:06 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I mean, that "I won" monologue makes it pretty clear where the filmmakers stand

flappy bird, Sunday, 28 April 2019 04:07 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I haven't finished the series (and wonder if I ever will?) but I appreciate your commentary flappy bird, I've always thought Lena Dunham "in the press" belied the work itself, which at the very least, made me laugh, a lot, which is an achievement

flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 28 April 2019 04:11 (four weeks ago) Permalink

The first three seasons still resonate with me as being extremely deft portrayals of NYC 20-somethings (at least, the ones I encountered) and the bizarre mindset that that city creates in young creatives

flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 28 April 2019 04:13 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I mean to me this is the transformation of great white hope to death to hipsters to basicbitch but we suffer them in parts of ourselves.

Yerac, Sunday, 28 April 2019 04:30 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I don't know what specifically happened on the show about this but I know know too many smart women still caught up in it ( an I Won thing) and I get really sad that it's even a thing.

Yerac, Sunday, 28 April 2019 04:42 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Well, I read the wiki synopses and jumped ahead to the last episode and I thought it was great

I don't really know how to type this properly but it is kind of amazing how Lena/Hannah has normalized quotidian onscreen nudebody in a way that is really uplifting. The dovetail of Mom berating Hannah into Hannah berating runaway was perfect. I liked how all the other characters who I essentially don't care about (please save me from ever having to think about an Adam/Desi/Ray/Gay Dad/Mormon Dude ever again) were just not present, that was nice

flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 28 April 2019 05:38 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Marnie was always a total monster and it's only because Desi is an even bigger monster that we entertain the thought that she's not a monster.

Tiltin' My Lens Photography (stevie), Sunday, 28 April 2019 10:03 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I really enjoy Girls but 'child as redemption' is such bullshit

what happened with jessa/adam at the end, again?

kinder, Sunday, 28 April 2019 11:09 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Oh I didn't think there was a "child as redemption" thing. Hannah storms out of the house screaming "thanks mom for choosing to raise me with a homosexual father and deny me any semblance of a nuclear family", then she shows compassion for a teenage girl in trouble only to find out she's just trying to get out of her homework, and she gets mad and asks for her pants back and the girl calls her a psycho. So she goes home and Grover and crying. A running theme in this show seems to be that there is a complicated relationship between children and parents. There's a lot of "Jessa is a monster" "Marnie is a monster" about this show but I think the show very aggressively wants you to understand there are no good or bad people in the show, the characters are too complicated for that reduction.

flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 28 April 2019 14:18 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I was pretty drunk last night and was wondering what thread I had posted on. Ha!

Yerac, Sunday, 28 April 2019 14:38 (four weeks ago) Permalink

earlier post was about how Hannah figured it out and grew up after deciding to have a baby

kinder, Sunday, 28 April 2019 16:57 (four weeks ago) Permalink


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