things you're secretly kinda libertariany about

yeah euros are so uptight about a little free expression don't get it

after living in the UK for awhile i have to say it's really nice to live somewhere that prohibits election ads

God, that would be awesome.

yeah, i just don't know if there is any way in hell to square that with a constitutional guarantee of protected political speech

-believe ppl shd not talk in the library
-they shd bring their books back on time
-homeless ppls shdnt look at porn on the computers
-no running
-no food or drinks allowed inside

all of those beliefs are secret-fascist not secret-libertarian including the idea that libraries should exist

i think i've said this b4 but i'm kinda libertariany about 'the arts'.

suspect a secret-fascist thread on ilx would be way longer than this one

i can't even think of all the things i would have to contribute also i wear my fascism openly

also not-so-secret

xp lol

i want that nazi haircut that's so hot right now

things you're secretly kinda fascisty about
alright

after living in the UK for awhile i have to say it's really nice to live somewhere that prohibits election ads

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 13 February 2012 17:35 (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha yes. party political broadcasts are amazing.

h. ignoring regulatory 'race to the bottom' type arguments w/ developing countries, there's nothing morally better about an american having a job than someone in another developed country having a job

that said i'm p 'libertarian party' when it comes to guns

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, February 12, 2012 8:36 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

woah BIG HOOS pack heat like the oven door!

h. ignoring regulatory 'race to the bottom' type arguments w/ developing countries, there's nothing morally better about an american having a job than someone in another developed country having a job

― iatee, Monday, February 13, 2012 1:42 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is this libertarian? i'm libertarian about this, too!

it turns libertariany when you draw out the policy implications

People who think a practice should be banned because they saw on TV that someone got hurt doing it will be made to wear armbands. (not sure if this is more libertariany or fascisty)

eh, I think 12 year olds can make decisions as informed & rational about their futures & educations as most adults do

Wait, seriously?

I'm a free speech absolutist, which is kind of ho-hum in the US

How absolute though? Are you fine with e.g. death threats? Libel/slander? Deliberate misinformation in journalism or education?

people ought to be able to buy, sell and trade whatever they like in any manner they like, provided that the product's risks are clearly communicated.

prostitution should be legal. same with public nudity, at least in certain contexts.

people have a "basic human right" to endanger and even end their own lives.

otoh, i'm very much in favor of gun control.

prostitution should be legal. same with public nudity, at least in certain contexts.

like, say, "in public"

so you're okay w/ flashers?

death threats = not protected (as assault) when believable; Libel/slander and deliberate misinformation = can't be forbidden but can lead to civil liability; Nazi stuff = free and open (because easily contractible); Hate speech = see Nazi stuff but see also death threats; pornography and violent imagery = legal but access restrictable, might be evidence of prosecutable crimes committed in its production but is not in itself contraband.

The Nazi stuff seems to be the stickiest wicket where I live. It's dumb, because boneheads do use the "they ban our words because they fear our truths" arguments very effectively 'round here.

being 'libertariany' about zoning should really go in the fascisty thread -- basically you want to remove all local power over land use in favor of a larger body or plan.

it's less land-use restrictive but very politically restrictive, if that makes sense. nimby politics are like the most ancient kind of politics.

so you're okay w/ flashers?

no! that's why i made that "certain contexts" caveat.

xp to goole:

sorta, but local vs national is sorta on another political axis. it's like if the fed gov't passed a law against a local gov't's tax or welfare program.

getting flashed is super hilarious though

if flashing were legal it would prob lose its appeal to a lot of people fast

Smoking bans
Mandatory seat-belt laws

getting flashed is super hilarious though

You are speaking purely about yourself on that, I presume.

if flashing were legal it would prob lose its appeal to a lot of people fast

yes and no. people wouldn't be as able to get away with "shocking" nudity, but yr tossers and bone flashers would probably still get a sick thrill. not on board w everybody gets to be naked all the time everywhere as social policy, at least not in the here and now. but i definitely think we would all benefit by substantially lowering the american prudishness threshhold.

American prudishness is evergreen.

lol a guy once masturbated at me on a beach and i kept laughing and he kept getting more into it and the more he got into it the funnier i thought it was. it is a shame this has only happened once, laughter is an excellent stress reliever and works the abs

u should try masturbation

thats more of a tricep exercise

if you do it the boring way, ya sure

i thought i was a 'free speech absolutist' until citizens united happened and suddenly every libertarian i was friends with was crowing on their FB or twitter about what a great victory it was for the 1st amendment.

not really 'libertariany' about drugs either; i don't think the country would be better off if you could buy crack cocaine and heroin at wal-mart.

i. gov't should not subsidize disaster insurance

This shit: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-ibbitson/tories-on-e-snooping-stand-with-us-or-with-the-child-pornographers/article2336889/

May be an easy one though.

Maybe, like, farm subsidies? For the most part, though, libertarians seem emotionally immature and willfully ignorant of history. Libertarianism would probably be really great in a perfect world with an enlightened populace, but I mean...

I don't know that they're willfully "ignorant of history" so much as that they're deliberately ahistorical, which is even more problematic imo. Get into a debate with one of these doctrinaire Von Mises/Hayek types and watch how quickly they try to move the terms of discussion from actually existing social relations to abstractions like "liberty" and "coercion." Watch a Rothbard as he runs as fast as he can from the world into the comforting arms of metaphysics, because he and his ilk know that if you get into the nitty gritty of history their principles are easily contradicted by reality.

So these kinda ~intellectual pillars~ are deliberately ahistorical as a rhetorical tactic--it's the only ground on which they can get close to winning arguments--and their followers take this historical shallowness and treat it as the height of reason. If you're not arguing principle--that is, if you're talking about history and the real world--then they don't think your argument is sufficiently high-minded. "What about principle," they'll press you. When you tell them that 50 years of horrific American child labor are a pretty good argument against letting "the free market" sort out child labor issues, they'll accuse you of selling out the principle of voluntary labor.

It's all very backing-into-a-corner-firing-a-machine-gun in rhetorical style, which I suppose is fitting given that so many of them end up that way in reality too.

hoos OTM, all kinds of M

hoos i wonder if you've seen those arguments in the past year between mises-affiliated folks and graeber himself? p revealing stuff.

what's most amazing about that kind libertarian is not only that it's deliberately ahistorical, but that it has a such a strongly implied historical pattern at work behind everything. (i'm thinking of some crazy shit i read by hoppe). ie there was a time when men were free, but then somebody invented coercion and it all went to shit. but i never hear who that is! FDR? louis xiv? st paul? gilgamesh? colonial america seems to be the eden of this mindset but the details are left very muddy.

whenever i see these guys talk about 'the economically placid 19th century' i'm just like, ok this is a cult. (mad inflation during shakespeare's day, for ex.)

Citizens United is a dumb decision; spending isn't speech and the entire line of cases leading up to that decision was wrong-headed.

you guys this is the thread 2b secret libertarians, every other thread on ilx is for hating libertarians

this is a safe zone where we will trade w/ each other and make contracts and shoot guns, so many guns

citizens united is a crime against man and god (belongs in fascisty tho)

[oop, iatee on point]

OK, fair enough, I just want to be more libertarian than thou when it comes to my free speech absolutism -- which is based on the idea that speech is speech and not something else. Citizens United is only loved by dumb libertarians (yes, yes Department of Redundancy Department time).

individuals should be free to break contracts without consequence