buuut the gov't doesn't want to argue that al Q is an "army"
yeah that's a whole other problem...
― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
That's the trouble. The national security state hasn't reconciled Supreme Court opinions, Office of Legal Counsel decisions, and Oval Office urgency.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_v._Terrazas#Subsequent_developments
also relevant
― tebow gotti (k3vin k.), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
this whole scenario does beg the question - if dude could not be captured, what other course could the US gov't take against Awlaki?
xp
― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, January 23, 2012 1:28 PM (3 minutes ago)
it RAISES the question, and yeah i guess their only other option would be to kill him, which is what they did! doesn't mean it's grounded in law
― tebow gotti (k3vin k.), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:32 (twelve years ago) link
yep, a huge mess with no end in sight.
― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:33 (twelve years ago) link
color me naive but it's still amazing & creeped out to me that "secret opinions" are possible
no doubt there's a long ass history of these things throughout the cold war. or maybe not! i rly don't know.
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
doesn't mean it's grounded in law
shoot first, write law later lol
― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
ha otm
― tebow gotti (k3vin k.), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:35 (twelve years ago) link
thx for the legal links btw, thought there might be something unique aspect of treason charges/circumstances that would allow the in absentia thing but I guess not
― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:36 (twelve years ago) link
although it isn't clear to me why they didn't just convict him of treason in absentia (this can be done, yes?), revoke his citizenship, and THEN kill him.
There's no trial by absentia in the US, also:
"volunteering for service in a foreign military" = grounds for revocation of citizenship
Only if we are currently belligerents with that foreign military, or you happen to be an officer or Non-Comm - you have to give that position up but you don't actually have to be discharged.
― Frobisher (Viceroy), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:39 (twelve years ago) link
The New York Times has filed a lawsuit against the Obama administration under the Freedom of Information Act seeking the release of the Justice Department legal opinion in the Awlaki case. (The department has declined to provide the documents requested.)
― curmudgeon, Monday, 23 January 2012 18:45 (twelve years ago) link
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Monday, January 23, 2012 1:34 PM (54 seconds ago)
hey on the bright side people have the opportunity for definite acquittal, ostensible acquittal, and indefinite postponement
― tebow gotti (k3vin k.), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:49 (twelve years ago) link
Oh and an XP to myself and clarification for shakes -- declaring yourself an enemy combatant through joining up with Al Qaeda or their All-Yemeni B-Team is enough (in my mind) to count as willfully giving up your citizenship. A judge might need a bit more convincing but probably not by much.
― Frobisher (Viceroy), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:50 (twelve years ago) link
TBQH I also thought for a long time that for some of the high crimes like double murders and treason and stuff you could be tried in absentia, dunno why. I blame British television.
― Frobisher (Viceroy), Monday, 23 January 2012 18:58 (twelve years ago) link
declaring yourself an enemy combatant through joining up with Al Qaeda or their All-Yemeni B-Team is enough (in my mind) to count as willfully giving up your citizenship
mm yeah no
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 January 2012 19:01 (twelve years ago) link
damn Alfred you are right - renunciation of citizenship takes some official hoops I didn't realize one had to jump through: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html
Think I'll take a break from this thread for a few more years...
― Frobisher (Viceroy), Monday, 23 January 2012 19:09 (twelve years ago) link
Too late, we've ordered a drone strike on your location.
― Famous porn scenes like "shake that bear" (Phil D.), Monday, 23 January 2012 19:25 (twelve years ago) link
You might miss and take out one of the rest of us instead
― curmudgeon, Monday, 23 January 2012 20:13 (twelve years ago) link
and no army will defend our dead
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 January 2012 20:17 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/arkansas_democrat_childs_cat_killed_liberal_written_on_dead_body
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 23 January 2012 20:51 (twelve years ago) link
jfc
― dayo, Monday, 23 January 2012 20:57 (twelve years ago) link
what the FUCK
― Chaka Collar, lemme rock you (DJP), Monday, 23 January 2012 20:59 (twelve years ago) link
fuuuck
tho in mind of b-face self-scratcher girl and the suicide census worker with "fed" on him, i think i'd like to see more info discovered about this
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Monday, 23 January 2012 21:01 (twelve years ago) link
I am pretty certain that was done by someone's idiot children
― Chaka Collar, lemme rock you (DJP), Monday, 23 January 2012 21:02 (twelve years ago) link
a banner day for weird shit:
An aide to Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) resigned Monday after he was arrested for battery following a bizarre incident in which his wife alleged he rolled her up in a carpet, beat and kicked her.
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Monday, 23 January 2012 23:22 (twelve years ago) link
that's the guy on the shortlist for vp nom right?
― dayo, Monday, 23 January 2012 23:29 (twelve years ago) link
the aide would be a pretty good pick imo
― iatee, Monday, 23 January 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
That cat story is bad enough, then you get to the Republican pointing to his military service in his condemnation. I think you can chill with the talking points, bro.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 23 January 2012 23:36 (twelve years ago) link
Pelsoi: I'm going to be Speaker again.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 02:08 (twelve years ago) link
where did you guys talk about the state of the union?
― tebow gotti (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 04:09 (twelve years ago) link
GOP primary thread, tho not much talk, really.
― Clay, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 04:10 (twelve years ago) link
fitting
― tebow gotti (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 04:11 (twelve years ago) link
i had better use for the evening ... watching old Colin Baker-era doctor who episodes.
― wad of baloney (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 04:13 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i was getting drinks with friends, mercifully
― tebow gotti (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 04:14 (twelve years ago) link
I kinda watched it while writing something about music for my local alt-weekly. Just read the annoying Washington Post (likely Fred Hyatt written)take on the speech. They grumble that Obama's proposed tax changes would unfairly benefit manufacturers over other businesses; and that he won't propose a higher gas tax and other user fees in order to deficit. They liked Mitch Daniels rebuttal speech because he focussed on the debt, but then the W. Post acknowledged that the Republicans have not offered "responsible proposals to pay for the nation's needs." Oh brother.
I liked the Buffet Rule thing Obama said: those earning 1 million or more have to pay at least 30% in taxes, but that's mostly just reelection talk.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 13:24 (twelve years ago) link
in order to cut the deficit
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 13:25 (twelve years ago) link
Washington Monthly blogger (and Obama cheerleader) Steve Benen is leaving that site to become a producer for “The Rachel Maddow Show” and an MSNBC contributor.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 16:00 (twelve years ago) link
just what MSNBC needs to blunt their skeptical edge
― Dr Morbois de Bologne (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 16:09 (twelve years ago) link
I liked the SOTU, and thought there was a lot of good substance in it, beyond the Buffett rule thing that the media focused on. For instance, reform of Senate rules to allow certain types of business to be conducted by majority vote, a shift in emphasis from deficit cutting to infrastructure investment, education reform ideas, immigration reform, and lots of other things.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
Those ideas were nice and the speech was carefully crafted though to start off with the gung-ho America's military is the greatest stuff. Everything seemed carefully selected to respond to Republican candidates attacks.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 21:34 (twelve years ago) link
If this moves us one step closer to beatdowns on the floor of the House and Senate, I am all over it:
In a heated hearing Wednesday on Capitol Hill, Democratic Congressman Henry Waxman called upon the billionaire Koch brothers to be subpoenaed over their alleged monetary interests in the controversial Keystone XL pipeline. Republican Congressman Ed Whitfield angrily cut off Waxman. “We’re not going to be subpoenaing the Koch brothers … because the Koch brothers have nothing to do with this project,” Whitfield snapped.“Point of order!” Waxman exclaimed. “You cut me out in the middle of a sentence!”“Your time was up, Mr. Waxman!” Whitfield shot back. “We are going to recess this hearing for ten minutes and then we’re going to come back.”“Are you calling the Koch brothers during the recess?” Waxman sniped.“If you want to talk about that, let’s talk about the millions of dollars the Obama administration gave companies like Solyndra and people like George Kaiser and other campaign bundlers,” Whitfield fumed.“Why are you interrupting members and then you take unlimited time for yourself?” Waxman responded.“I’m the chairman! And I’m telling you right now we’re going to recess for ten minutes!” Whitfield boomed, before storming out of the hearing.
“Point of order!” Waxman exclaimed. “You cut me out in the middle of a sentence!”
“Your time was up, Mr. Waxman!” Whitfield shot back. “We are going to recess this hearing for ten minutes and then we’re going to come back.”
“Are you calling the Koch brothers during the recess?” Waxman sniped.
“If you want to talk about that, let’s talk about the millions of dollars the Obama administration gave companies like Solyndra and people like George Kaiser and other campaign bundlers,” Whitfield fumed.
“Why are you interrupting members and then you take unlimited time for yourself?” Waxman responded.
“I’m the chairman! And I’m telling you right now we’re going to recess for ten minutes!” Whitfield boomed, before storming out of the hearing.
― You got to ro-o-oll me and call me the tumblr whites (Phil D.), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 21:35 (twelve years ago) link
Waxman is the shit
― Full Frontal Newtity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 21:40 (twelve years ago) link
Some grade-A trolling by Waxman there.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 21:40 (twelve years ago) link
solyndra thing was ok but whitfield shoulda gone "no i'm gonna call your mom"
― buzza, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 21:40 (twelve years ago) link
boom, tough actin' tinactin.
the Koch brothers certainly DO have a financial interest in Keystone XL, of course, and i'm sure Whitfield knows that.
― SELF DEPORTATION (Z S), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/01/25/blogs/obama-brewer/obama-brewer-blog480.jpg
― SELF DEPORTATION (Z S), Thursday, 26 January 2012 15:12 (twelve years ago) link
sorry, here's some context:
PHOENIX — President Obama’s visit to Phoenix got off to a rough start on Wednesday afternoon when Air Force One was met by Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona — she of the book “Scorpions for Breakfast,” in which she accuses the Obama administration of turning a blind eye to illegal immigration because migrants will help Mr. Obama register more Democratic votes.Mr. Obama stepped off the plane and was greeted by Ms. Brewer, who handed him a handwritten letter in an envelope that she later said was an invitation to discuss the “Arizona comeback.” The two had an intense exchange for several minutes; at one point Ms. Brewer pointed her finger at Mr. Obama....At one point, the two seemed to be talking at the same time, seemingly over each other. Mr. Obama appeared to walk away from Ms. Brewer while she was still talking.
Mr. Obama stepped off the plane and was greeted by Ms. Brewer, who handed him a handwritten letter in an envelope that she later said was an invitation to discuss the “Arizona comeback.” The two had an intense exchange for several minutes; at one point Ms. Brewer pointed her finger at Mr. Obama.
...At one point, the two seemed to be talking at the same time, seemingly over each other. Mr. Obama appeared to walk away from Ms. Brewer while she was still talking.
― SELF DEPORTATION (Z S), Thursday, 26 January 2012 15:13 (twelve years ago) link
are they... about to kiss
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Thursday, 26 January 2012 15:14 (twelve years ago) link
The rightwing take:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/thou-shalt-not-write-bad-things-about-obama_618603.html
Two Republican govs say Obama was mean to them in person (for things they wrote about him)
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 26 January 2012 15:15 (twelve years ago) link
about to hurlxp
― quick brown fox triangle (schlump), Thursday, 26 January 2012 15:15 (twelve years ago) link