Real England

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where is it and what does it look like

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:12 (seven years ago) link

Raymond Williams says somewhere that most people who live in it live in quite small towns, but there is next to no significant literature about same.

Of course he was writing before Midsomer Murders aired.

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/64476/dscf1947scrsfr.jpg

^^^wiltshire apparently (i'm not sure i know where wiltshire actually is) < /the lex >

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:16 (seven years ago) link

i don't know how the demographics break down now but i wd say that a significant majority at least want to live in quite small towns. also i suspect quite small towns are increasingly really dissipated cities.

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:19 (seven years ago) link

Anyone bothered with Paul Kingsnorth's book on this very subject?

Lars and the Lulu Girl (NickB), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:21 (seven years ago) link

but y'knaa this whole problematic word "Real" - is this intended sarcastically, like is this thread about "what are the sort of people who use the phrase 'Real England' talking about?" or are we positing a defining core of Englishness that has history and still survives however tenuous?

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:21 (seven years ago) link

i think it would be facetious to pretend the issue can be approached entirely unfacetiously

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:22 (seven years ago) link

i was not aware of paul kingsnorth but now i see he has written a book called real england colon something else, i would guess it isn't the only book/treatise/pamphlet with similar title

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:23 (seven years ago) link

work filter has thoughtfully blocked access to my first google search result, some blog with the delightfully making-me-want-to-stab-the-author subtitle "The Battle Against the Bland". i assure you guys if there is a Real England it is not battling against The Bland and that is an excellent virtue in itself.

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:24 (seven years ago) link

oh right, that is the subtitle of Kingsnorth's book. okay then i will probably never read it since i infer from the book's post-colonage that the guy is a big douche.

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:24 (seven years ago) link

the usual English attention to the wrong details

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:25 (seven years ago) link

and some sadness for stuff passing that has not passed or was not what he claims it was before it passed

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:26 (seven years ago) link

is john terry 'real england' dyou suppose

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:27 (seven years ago) link

i infer from the book's post-colonage that the guy is a big douche.

― Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:24 (1 minute ago)

h but f, nv, h but f

basically i was looking at the squad list for peterbrough town and noticed ryan tunnicliffe and lee frecklington and thought maybe those names were shibboleths that uttered in a certain way might usher you into the innermost real england

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:27 (seven years ago) link

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01185/arts-graphics-2008_1185572a.jpg

the city hobgoblin as a good place to start! (of course he said british not english, right, re the wrong detail)

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:35 (seven years ago) link

"... heir to an immense fortune, gifted by nature with a mind susceptible of noble cultivation, and a body endowed with admirable physical powers with the wretched drunkard who died in a gaol at the age of thirty-eight, a worn-out debauchee and drivelling sot... " <-- i am this very second ensconced in the village that surnamed this regency rake, tho he mainly lived on the other side of shrewsbury

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:41 (seven years ago) link

nigel farage isn't real btw, he speaks for only his own constituency, which is seldom more than symbolic

is there a real england that is incapable of any sort of assimilation into colonned literature? a planar england that resists signification or commodification by interlopers from other englands

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:43 (seven years ago) link

south dublin iirc

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:44 (seven years ago) link

leatherhead is a promotory over a large and brackish inland sea that is never spoken of

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:45 (seven years ago) link

beneath the leylines, the true underground

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:46 (seven years ago) link

"Winter, 1981: the headless, skinned bodies of two bears are found by the River Lea."

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:51 (seven years ago) link

real england is all mates and and blood sausage and big bottomed birds reading thew newsie-wewsies

max, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:57 (seven years ago) link

nah it's hedgerows and birds and complete lack of public services

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:08 (seven years ago) link

Oh it's all about the public services nowadays; a bus to take you into town so you can spend all night trawling the happy hour bars, a streetcleaner to mop up your vomit from the pavement, a policeman to give you a place to spend the night. No-one needed public services when an evening's entertainment consisted of watching the sun set over a russet autumnal hedgerow, lulled into a reverie by the carefree birdsong.

ceci n'est pas un nom d'affichage (ledge), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:17 (seven years ago) link

http://www.photohistory-sussex.co.uk/UckFrisbyPiltdown03.jpg

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:19 (seven years ago) link

"Searching for the Putdown Man"

ceci n'est pas un nom d'affichage (ledge), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:21 (seven years ago) link

is there a real england that is incapable of any sort of assimilation into colonned literature? a planar england that resists signification or commodification by interlopers from other englands

Interesting question which I wish I could answer.

Ned Trifle X, Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:29 (seven years ago) link

I don't know if I would like that England even.

Ned Trifle X, Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:29 (seven years ago) link

is there a culture that can't be commodified? and i have to be v. v. careful not to paint my cultures, or the cultures i've drifted along the fringes of, as the only real England. the problem is that the word is usually only spoken out loud by a certain kind of cultural capitalist, whose vision of it is just as tangential as mine. bullshit about fair play and honest toil and love of the land that i'd counter with a nation of sneak thiefs, factionalists and urban wastrels. the contestedness is always part of the Reality of the nation, any nation really.

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:39 (seven years ago) link

for every sleepy Sunday C of E-attending agnostic Tory there's an apocalypse-welcoming hair-splitting anabaptist

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:41 (seven years ago) link

Everywhere north of Enfield is basically a wasteland isn't it? Brrrr... Nothing there. Just a man collecting lumps of mud and putting them into a cloth bag.

Glo-Vember (dog latin), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:42 (seven years ago) link

yeah but the determination of that which is essential need not be a question of mere majorities

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:43 (seven years ago) link

everybody shd read The Uses of Literacy to see how you can constructively get this wrong in a way that doesn't just mourn real heritage centres. obv Williams and E.P. Thompson and Stuart Hall too

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:43 (seven years ago) link

the determination of that which is essential need not be a question of mere majorities

quite so, how about the British Isles then as a dumping ground/refugee camp/Wild West for Europe and parts south-east, over millenia, fuelling endless negotiation and conflict over territory, and that is the quicksand underneath Real England that we think of as bedrock?

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:46 (seven years ago) link

look mate there's no need to get fucking personal, alright

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:49 (seven years ago) link

btw if i was gonna put forward one Real England it wd be old photographs of works sports teams or outings or other ceremonial jollies

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:49 (seven years ago) link

it would be the commie permawheezing mustachioed drunk one in tinker tailor, tho no doubt they'd have you b'leev it's smiley or haydon

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:52 (seven years ago) link

wait haydon was the commie?

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:54 (seven years ago) link

SPOILERS

nah think he was the aesthete on a protest against the yanks more than anything else, wasn't the dude ciaran hinds played proper lefty in stated methods tho

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:56 (seven years ago) link

the sparking point of Real England is where the plummy port-swilling foxhunter runs up against the chippy millenarian work-dodger and we drink each others' health and promise ourselves deep down that one day our kind will crush theirs

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:57 (seven years ago) link

the phoenicians sailed up round to albion to trade tin for spice before the romans had even got out of bed, and if they weren't trading with aboriginal pre-celt and pre-pict inhabitants, then it was certainly aboriginal+1: an island of proto-druid shopkeepers since time immaterial

stonehenge is actually a kind of cashpoint machine

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:58 (seven years ago) link

xp

oh, Roy Bland. yeah Bland is the angry Puritan I've been talking about, defending his country so's his people can crush the effete Squire class one day

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:59 (seven years ago) link

but mark, who's to say the aborigines hadn't hopped off the boat from Boulogne just ahead of the celts themselves and so on and so forth??

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:00 (seven years ago) link

irish close to turks dna-wise iirc

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:03 (seven years ago) link

i think that's exactly what mark is saying, tbf

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:04 (seven years ago) link

Of all the Tribe of Tegumai
Who cut that figure, none remain
On Merrow Down the cuckoos cry
The silence and the sun remain

xp he's called smiley, he has to be of outlander extraction

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:13 (seven years ago) link

^ I wasn't at that FAP

R. Stornoway (Tom D.), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:34 (seven years ago) link

clun forest all-mercian jug band champions, tractor runs on wattle and daub

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:34 (seven years ago) link

never get away with haircuts like that up in the Danelaw

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:36 (seven years ago) link

but maybe we should have a thread for popular art?

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:22 (one week ago) link

wonder who would choose to die defending the reputation of jack vettriano

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:23 (one week ago) link

or that bastard that paints the multi-coloured cows

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:24 (one week ago) link

anybody but Banky, obv

a wagon to the curious (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:26 (one week ago) link

I hate stanley spencer and henri rousseau as well just for the case that I'm not a sexist bastard and just despise crudely stylised figurative painting done with a lack of talent and ugly ass colours!

calzino, Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:28 (one week ago) link

aw no way! love both of those

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:31 (one week ago) link

beryl cook's imagery is so conservative 50's real england it gives me a queasy feeling.

calzino, Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:39 (one week ago) link

stanley spencer was awful as well, a real suburban creepazoid, but at least he imagined corpses fucking each other!

calzino, Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:40 (one week ago) link

i do tend to associate beryl cook with the worst sort of country pubs tbh

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:43 (one week ago) link

wonder who would choose to die defending the reputation of jack vettriano

― the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, September 12, 2019 2:23 PM (eighteen minutes ago)

the methil michelangelo!

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:44 (one week ago) link

real suburban creepazoid are my favourite spanish football team fyi

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:45 (one week ago) link

have been going through a bit of a lowry kick recently

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:46 (one week ago) link

that seascape has been my favourite Lowry since i first saw it

a wagon to the curious (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:49 (one week ago) link

never seen the other one before tho!

a wagon to the curious (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:49 (one week ago) link

amazing that seascape! one of those works that really turns your head about an artist

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 21:50 (one week ago) link

good to see they left the railings in place

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 22:03 (one week ago) link

they are still required to discourage the drugged up Lockwood crazies matchstick dogs from running in front of buses!

calzino, Thursday, 12 September 2019 22:12 (one week ago) link

there is a Lowry movie coming isn't there?

calzino, Thursday, 12 September 2019 22:16 (one week ago) link

never mind it just looks like another awful T Sprawl project

calzino, Thursday, 12 September 2019 22:20 (one week ago) link

Oh god is there?

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 22:21 (one week ago) link

Ha I was just about to invoke turner

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Thursday, 12 September 2019 22:22 (one week ago) link

since Spall played another painter, Turner (which was good) he's done some awful projects including playing David Irving, and I think this is going to be another awful one by the reviews I've just skimmed.

calzino, Thursday, 12 September 2019 22:25 (one week ago) link

I was born 11 years after WW2, we still had shortages, vegetables were seasonal, we ate a lot of offal but fish was plentiful, I survived. We had a three day week of electricity I survived. We had a drought and failed crops, I survived. Yellow hammer? A walk in the park.

— Gary White (@prydwen3) September 12, 2019

Born in '58, no proper bathroom in the house, played in an old air raid shelter at the back of the house, gas lighting on the stairs leading to what would be called nowadays a flat. No supermarkets, but the high street was always busy and there were no empty unused shops. 😀

— LBG6224 (@gerry6224) September 13, 2019

'54. No bathroom, no running hot water, coal house next to the outside loo in the yard.

Comfortable now, but brought my kids up to understand that money doesn't grow on trees, to think for themselves, and that nothing in life is guaranteed.

We all voted to leave the EU.

— Jan Hoggarth (@HoggarthJan) September 13, 2019

1948, one week into NHS. Veg was seasonal, dad grew stuff on an allotment. Chicken was a luxury. Loved Spam fritters. Sunday roast lasted for thee days. What was ‘latte’ ‘Americano’? ‘Artisan’? Less choice, less complicated, healthier. Lot happier.

— Brie (@Brie0748) September 13, 2019

ban golf (jed_), Friday, 13 September 2019 12:29 (six days ago) link

sovereignty is a helluva drug

don’t bore us, get to the aeon of horus (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 13 September 2019 12:31 (six days ago) link

Unreal North Macedonia

nashwan, Friday, 13 September 2019 12:32 (six days ago) link

I was born 8 years after WW2, and although we like you had it really tough we were a lot healthier and happier than we are today, WHY? well simple because we were FREE

— razzy D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F (@razzywoman) September 13, 2019

ban golf (jed_), Friday, 13 September 2019 12:34 (six days ago) link

bad news for them in the yellowhammer papers, it is stated that electric and gas supplies will be not be interrupted in a ndb... terrible news.

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 12:37 (six days ago) link

obviously avoid the "comedy" replies at all costs - and why would you need them when the sincere ones are as good as

I was born just after WW2 & didn’t see a banana until I was 5, I survived. Sandwiches = sugar or jam butties with Stork marg, no sweets, I survived. No central heating or double glazing until the 70s, + the 3 day week, fuel/coal shortages, power cuts due to strikes, I survived.

— Diane Boyle (@diane_boyle) September 13, 2019

ban golf (jed_), Friday, 13 September 2019 12:40 (six days ago) link

I survived not seeing a banana until I was 5

ban golf (jed_), Friday, 13 September 2019 12:41 (six days ago) link

doubling glazing in the 70's - fucking posh bastard!

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 12:44 (six days ago) link

It’s a good job double glazing won’t be necessary when the planet is on fire otherwise we’d all be fucked

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 13 September 2019 12:45 (six days ago) link

big fan of the black death here, plz can we bring that back too?

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Friday, 13 September 2019 12:47 (six days ago) link

lol food poverty in the UK in the post war years was nothing compared to mainland europe. I remember reading when Rossellini was filming his war trilogy they had to use wax fruit on the set because the famished German cast members were so ravenous they couldn't stop themselves.

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 12:56 (six days ago) link

or it might have been they injected something into the fruit to make it inedible.. but you gets the picture.

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 12:58 (six days ago) link

Clearly some of my ancestors survived the black death so

a wagon to the curious (Noodle Vague), Friday, 13 September 2019 13:23 (six days ago) link

Punk rockers, eh? They had it tough.

The Inner Mounting Phlegm (Tom D.), Friday, 13 September 2019 13:29 (six days ago) link

the great amphetamine famine of '79 was a toughie

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 13:30 (six days ago) link

i remember waking up with tb wrecked lungs and my mum told me to drink my puddle-water and eat my gravel because i'm not getting a day off school

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 13:32 (six days ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqmjWCk36C8

ban golf (jed_), Friday, 13 September 2019 13:33 (six days ago) link

Sorry state of affairs when people born in 1958 are living the Four Yorkshire Men sketch.

The Inner Mounting Phlegm (Tom D.), Friday, 13 September 2019 13:33 (six days ago) link

Society is indeed in the gutter.

The Inner Mounting Phlegm (Tom D.), Friday, 13 September 2019 13:34 (six days ago) link

I bet most of the grim look-back bores luxuriating in their own childhood poverty here have zero sympathy with people who are already in food poverty now and reliant on foodbanks even before a ndb.

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 13:40 (six days ago) link

Yes, but they didn't have to choose between "The Good Old Days" and "The Mike and Bernie Winters Show" for their Saturday night entertainment.

The Inner Mounting Phlegm (Tom D.), Friday, 13 September 2019 13:42 (six days ago) link

no wonder we need a government Suicide Tsar these days.

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 13:43 (six days ago) link

they need to start doing a counter on how many lives she's saved!

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 13:44 (six days ago) link

I want to trawl their old tweets, am betting I'd find them girning about a bread shortage on day two of snow one winter. But cba

stet, Friday, 13 September 2019 14:27 (six days ago) link

people who shit-talk on about the character building aspects of poverty haven't experienced it for so long that they don't have a fucking clue. I bet loads of them would shit their pants in despair if they had no money and no food.

calzino, Friday, 13 September 2019 14:34 (six days ago) link

^

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 13 September 2019 14:50 (six days ago) link


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