Real England

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where is it and what does it look like

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:12 (eight years ago) link

Raymond Williams says somewhere that most people who live in it live in quite small towns, but there is next to no significant literature about same.

Of course he was writing before Midsomer Murders aired.

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/64476/dscf1947scrsfr.jpg

^^^wiltshire apparently (i'm not sure i know where wiltshire actually is) < /the lex >

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:16 (eight years ago) link

i don't know how the demographics break down now but i wd say that a significant majority at least want to live in quite small towns. also i suspect quite small towns are increasingly really dissipated cities.

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:19 (eight years ago) link

Anyone bothered with Paul Kingsnorth's book on this very subject?

Lars and the Lulu Girl (NickB), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:21 (eight years ago) link

but y'knaa this whole problematic word "Real" - is this intended sarcastically, like is this thread about "what are the sort of people who use the phrase 'Real England' talking about?" or are we positing a defining core of Englishness that has history and still survives however tenuous?

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:21 (eight years ago) link

i think it would be facetious to pretend the issue can be approached entirely unfacetiously

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:22 (eight years ago) link

i was not aware of paul kingsnorth but now i see he has written a book called real england colon something else, i would guess it isn't the only book/treatise/pamphlet with similar title

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:23 (eight years ago) link

work filter has thoughtfully blocked access to my first google search result, some blog with the delightfully making-me-want-to-stab-the-author subtitle "The Battle Against the Bland". i assure you guys if there is a Real England it is not battling against The Bland and that is an excellent virtue in itself.

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:24 (eight years ago) link

oh right, that is the subtitle of Kingsnorth's book. okay then i will probably never read it since i infer from the book's post-colonage that the guy is a big douche.

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:24 (eight years ago) link

the usual English attention to the wrong details

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:25 (eight years ago) link

and some sadness for stuff passing that has not passed or was not what he claims it was before it passed

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:26 (eight years ago) link

is john terry 'real england' dyou suppose

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:27 (eight years ago) link

i infer from the book's post-colonage that the guy is a big douche.

― Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:24 (1 minute ago)

h but f, nv, h but f

basically i was looking at the squad list for peterbrough town and noticed ryan tunnicliffe and lee frecklington and thought maybe those names were shibboleths that uttered in a certain way might usher you into the innermost real england

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:27 (eight years ago) link

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01185/arts-graphics-2008_1185572a.jpg

the city hobgoblin as a good place to start! (of course he said british not english, right, re the wrong detail)

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:35 (eight years ago) link

"... heir to an immense fortune, gifted by nature with a mind susceptible of noble cultivation, and a body endowed with admirable physical powers with the wretched drunkard who died in a gaol at the age of thirty-eight, a worn-out debauchee and drivelling sot... " <-- i am this very second ensconced in the village that surnamed this regency rake, tho he mainly lived on the other side of shrewsbury

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:41 (eight years ago) link

nigel farage isn't real btw, he speaks for only his own constituency, which is seldom more than symbolic

is there a real england that is incapable of any sort of assimilation into colonned literature? a planar england that resists signification or commodification by interlopers from other englands

Nigel Farage is a fucking hero (nakhchivan), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:43 (eight years ago) link

south dublin iirc

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:44 (eight years ago) link

leatherhead is a promotory over a large and brackish inland sea that is never spoken of

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:45 (eight years ago) link

beneath the leylines, the true underground

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:46 (eight years ago) link

"Winter, 1981: the headless, skinned bodies of two bears are found by the River Lea."

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:51 (eight years ago) link

real england is all mates and and blood sausage and big bottomed birds reading thew newsie-wewsies

max, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:57 (eight years ago) link

nah it's hedgerows and birds and complete lack of public services

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:08 (eight years ago) link

Oh it's all about the public services nowadays; a bus to take you into town so you can spend all night trawling the happy hour bars, a streetcleaner to mop up your vomit from the pavement, a policeman to give you a place to spend the night. No-one needed public services when an evening's entertainment consisted of watching the sun set over a russet autumnal hedgerow, lulled into a reverie by the carefree birdsong.

ceci n'est pas un nom d'affichage (ledge), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:17 (eight years ago) link

http://www.photohistory-sussex.co.uk/UckFrisbyPiltdown03.jpg

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:19 (eight years ago) link

"Searching for the Putdown Man"

ceci n'est pas un nom d'affichage (ledge), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:21 (eight years ago) link

is there a real england that is incapable of any sort of assimilation into colonned literature? a planar england that resists signification or commodification by interlopers from other englands

Interesting question which I wish I could answer.

Ned Trifle X, Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:29 (eight years ago) link

I don't know if I would like that England even.

Ned Trifle X, Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:29 (eight years ago) link

is there a culture that can't be commodified? and i have to be v. v. careful not to paint my cultures, or the cultures i've drifted along the fringes of, as the only real England. the problem is that the word is usually only spoken out loud by a certain kind of cultural capitalist, whose vision of it is just as tangential as mine. bullshit about fair play and honest toil and love of the land that i'd counter with a nation of sneak thiefs, factionalists and urban wastrels. the contestedness is always part of the Reality of the nation, any nation really.

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:39 (eight years ago) link

for every sleepy Sunday C of E-attending agnostic Tory there's an apocalypse-welcoming hair-splitting anabaptist

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:41 (eight years ago) link

Everywhere north of Enfield is basically a wasteland isn't it? Brrrr... Nothing there. Just a man collecting lumps of mud and putting them into a cloth bag.

Glo-Vember (dog latin), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:42 (eight years ago) link

yeah but the determination of that which is essential need not be a question of mere majorities

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:43 (eight years ago) link

everybody shd read The Uses of Literacy to see how you can constructively get this wrong in a way that doesn't just mourn real heritage centres. obv Williams and E.P. Thompson and Stuart Hall too

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:43 (eight years ago) link

the determination of that which is essential need not be a question of mere majorities

quite so, how about the British Isles then as a dumping ground/refugee camp/Wild West for Europe and parts south-east, over millenia, fuelling endless negotiation and conflict over territory, and that is the quicksand underneath Real England that we think of as bedrock?

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:46 (eight years ago) link

look mate there's no need to get fucking personal, alright

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:49 (eight years ago) link

btw if i was gonna put forward one Real England it wd be old photographs of works sports teams or outings or other ceremonial jollies

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:49 (eight years ago) link

it would be the commie permawheezing mustachioed drunk one in tinker tailor, tho no doubt they'd have you b'leev it's smiley or haydon

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:52 (eight years ago) link

wait haydon was the commie?

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:54 (eight years ago) link

SPOILERS

nah think he was the aesthete on a protest against the yanks more than anything else, wasn't the dude ciaran hinds played proper lefty in stated methods tho

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:56 (eight years ago) link

the sparking point of Real England is where the plummy port-swilling foxhunter runs up against the chippy millenarian work-dodger and we drink each others' health and promise ourselves deep down that one day our kind will crush theirs

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:57 (eight years ago) link

the phoenicians sailed up round to albion to trade tin for spice before the romans had even got out of bed, and if they weren't trading with aboriginal pre-celt and pre-pict inhabitants, then it was certainly aboriginal+1: an island of proto-druid shopkeepers since time immaterial

stonehenge is actually a kind of cashpoint machine

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:58 (eight years ago) link

xp

oh, Roy Bland. yeah Bland is the angry Puritan I've been talking about, defending his country so's his people can crush the effete Squire class one day

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:59 (eight years ago) link

but mark, who's to say the aborigines hadn't hopped off the boat from Boulogne just ahead of the celts themselves and so on and so forth??

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:00 (eight years ago) link

irish close to turks dna-wise iirc

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:03 (eight years ago) link

i think that's exactly what mark is saying, tbf

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:04 (eight years ago) link

Of all the Tribe of Tegumai
Who cut that figure, none remain
On Merrow Down the cuckoos cry
The silence and the sun remain

xp he's called smiley, he has to be of outlander extraction

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:13 (eight years ago) link

^ I wasn't at that FAP

R. Stornoway (Tom D.), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:34 (eight years ago) link

clun forest all-mercian jug band champions, tractor runs on wattle and daub

mark s, Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:34 (eight years ago) link

never get away with haircuts like that up in the Danelaw

Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 3 November 2011 16:36 (eight years ago) link

Are you sure they aren't boiled eggs (as disgusting an idea that it is) , because they look too white.

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 17:49 (one week ago) link

Oh yes they are omg!

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 17:50 (one week ago) link

They are boiled eggs yeah, normally packaged differently as part of a packed lunch. Tbh you could make a batch of egg mayo with them, maybe cater a small gathering oops

how do i shot moon? (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 17:51 (one week ago) link

Lol why I did I think there would shelled eggs in a bag? I don't rule anything out these days! Christ imagine the smell when you open it.

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 17:52 (one week ago) link

Relevant

https://youtu.be/9pRxJXlePmY

scampo italiano (gyac), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 18:04 (one week ago) link

I only fuck with freshly boiled balls of corruption. That shit is for degen pub landlords to put in their pickle jar and unfit for human consumption.

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 18:08 (one week ago) link

I love an egg but sports science bros have put me off a bit

how do i shot moon? (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 18:11 (one week ago) link

If you were to chop them up into a rice stir fry or a curry you probably couldn't tell the difference between them and fresh ones. But it would be the knowing that would make me feel queasy.

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 18:14 (one week ago) link

Nah they'd be lovely, put hairs on your chest

how do i shot moon? (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 18:15 (one week ago) link

12 egg heart attack might finish you tho

how do i shot moon? (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 18:16 (one week ago) link

Either that or a constipated/egg bound stroke the next day whilst straining on the lavatory!

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 18:18 (one week ago) link

You eat that whole bag you're not passing solids for a week, pro tip for if music festivals ever come back

how do i shot moon? (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 18:20 (one week ago) link

Lool!

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 18:25 (one week ago) link

Those egg bags are being described as Real England here and elsewhere but they are pretty much the most NYC corner store things I’ve ever seen. The only difference is in New York they’d have them at the till for impulse purchase, not on a shelf.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 21:25 (one week ago) link

in a large glass jar.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 21:30 (one week ago) link

Do you have to buy the whole jar or can you just get one scooped out and plonked in a packet of crisps?

kinder, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 21:33 (one week ago) link

To be fair, and this might be a false memory, it’s so log ago, but I do remember hearing someone order “two chip butties, a pickled egg and a can of Fanta” in a chip shop at the bottom of greystones road once.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 21:33 (one week ago) link

my local chippy has a jar of pickled eggs, but they are just for show!

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 21:36 (one week ago) link

such peacocks!

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 21:44 (one week ago) link

pretentious bastards!

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 21:46 (one week ago) link

tbh the proprietor is a former British army master chef who used to be Prince Andrew's personal cook, but he doesn't like to talk about it as much as when he opened the shop now. He does special meal deals for kids called "Alfies" which makes me lol for god knows what reason, but when you hear someone calling the order: "and two Alfies as well please Paul" in a broad Yorkshire accent it makes me giddy and want to lol!

calzino, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 21:54 (one week ago) link

Not one mention of the eggs looking like they are on a normal shelf and not in a fridge

a hoy hoy, Thursday, 17 September 2020 06:44 (one week ago) link

I assumed it was a refrigerated shelf, wtf!

calzino, Thursday, 17 September 2020 07:51 (one week ago) link

It's a hard pass from me. pic.twitter.com/tNU1xDFop7

— Sir Edward (@sir_dward) September 17, 2020

好 now 烧烤 (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 18 September 2020 19:44 (one week ago) link

Lol well played

how do i shot moon? (Noodle Vague), Friday, 18 September 2020 20:37 (one week ago) link

I think it is good ugly-shaming Brendan because it forces him as a bullshit-persona rugged-individualist libertarian into an awkward corner where he doesn't know to respond without his whole universe unwinding. But there is too much of it going about on social media right now imo. Loads of good and terrible people aren't classically handsome or might be struggling with their weight, or have a bent broken big nose or receding hairlines (it me!). Indiscriminate appearance shaming from lefty twitter seems to be on the rise and i don't think it is healthy imo.

calzino, Friday, 18 September 2020 20:58 (one week ago) link

I'm mainly sensitive to this because I used to get stopped for police line-ups that consisted of 30+ year old blokes when I was 19!

calzino, Friday, 18 September 2020 21:04 (one week ago) link

My husband has just walked the 226-mile Thames Path from source to mouth. And what’s at the end? This. pic.twitter.com/iwaspNTXEz

— isolatie katie (@pipterino) September 20, 2020

好 now 烧烤 (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 20 September 2020 22:25 (one week ago) link

Durham University has withdrawn a student’s place after an investigation into “utterly abhorrent” comments on social media.

It launched the inquiry after it came to light that wealthy prospective freshers supposedly planned to hold a competition to have sex with the poorest student they could find. Other comments discussed drugs and concerns about being accused of rape. One wrote that he would “sleep with a different bird every night just for a bed”.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/23/durham-university-withdraws-freshers-place-over-abhorrent-online-posts

sock solipsist (pomenitul), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 22:48 (five days ago) link

Nonce ant

Gerneten-flüken cake (jed_), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 23:59 (five days ago) link

https://c.yell.com/t_galleryFit,f_auto/465da2f3-1c25-4a15-8fb4-53cdb9c64bb5_image_jpeg.jpg

was listening to Mobeen Azhar's Hometown doc on 5live earlier and my ears pricked up when Mr Sparkles was mentioned. If ever there will be heritage tourism in Dewsbury this legendary heroin traffickers' carwash is almost as iconic as the police station building where both Peter Sutcliffe and Craig Meehan were arrested! He used to also have a laundering shop round the corner from my house called Mountain Stores, locally known as the "inconvenience store" because all it had for sale was ciggies, a few stacks of mars bars and cans of warm carling black label.

calzino, Sunday, 27 September 2020 00:22 (yesterday) link

it’s a good doc. there’s an iPlayer version as well.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 27 September 2020 07:26 (yesterday) link

I told my stepdad to shut up when he said Birkby (where he has lived for over 50 years and where Mobeen is also from) is getting more like Moss Side these days, but he might have had a point! I used to wander through Birkby every morning (an electrical company I worked for had their premises on the industrial estate off Blacker Road) and still think of it as quite a relatively posh area, with its tidy Victorian terraced houses with very high ceilings and there are some parts of it you probably wouldn't get much change out of half a million if you were buying a house. But it has changed a lot in the last decade, no doubt. Will have to catch the i-player version of this.

calzino, Sunday, 27 September 2020 11:19 (yesterday) link

There is a weird combo of money and grinding poverty pocketed around your ends ime

Mille scampeaux (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 27 September 2020 11:21 (yesterday) link

that's definitely true where I live. It can be a two minute walk from classic sink estate to leafy suburbia and the area was marked out as a "property hotspot" on the Times website according to a IPSOS mori guy who turned up on my doorstep. And even on the sink estate there are little patches of affluence, well privately owned council houses with burglar alarms, cctv , fancy cladding and five expensive looking cars parked outside!

calzino, Sunday, 27 September 2020 11:31 (yesterday) link

and then there are those living in grinding poverty and paying double social-rent to landlord scum.

calzino, Sunday, 27 September 2020 11:36 (yesterday) link

Yeah last time I was in Dewsbury I think I saw an inordinate amount of flash cars

Mille scampeaux (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 27 September 2020 11:36 (yesterday) link

there is a drug dealer who lives around the corner from me who hasn't made the same mistake as Mr Sparkles, as in building a gaudy million quid mansion in a white + posh part of Mirfield! He has two very quiet laundering businesses, a sun tan parlour just two doors away from Mr Sparkles old store and a Fast Food joint and he lives in a modest two bed ex-council semi and has I luv NHS rainbow banner in the window.

calzino, Sunday, 27 September 2020 11:46 (yesterday) link

Mobeen also mentions the half mile on Ravensthorpe Rd where there are least 28 fast food businesses clustered together in one small area, it's quite amusing really - some of them got mentioned for getting a zero star hygiene rating when the local rag was shaming bad takeaways a couple of years back.

calzino, Sunday, 27 September 2020 11:57 (yesterday) link

oops should a bit more careful what I post on here, there could be narcs about!

calzino, Sunday, 27 September 2020 12:01 (yesterday) link

There's run down mini shopping arcades on the estates in Hull that are 90 percent takeaways but tbf they're probably all doing legit business too

Mille scampeaux (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 27 September 2020 12:04 (yesterday) link

yeah some of them might even be half decent, but for example where you get one in the most useless location, like off the main road near a cluster of pensioner bungalows and he doesn't put up any signs up to promote the place. It seems almost blatant that he doesn't want to encourage too much trade!

calzino, Sunday, 27 September 2020 12:12 (yesterday) link

there are nearby quite a few established take-aways, that are accessible and have regular customers, this dude is trying his best not to compete with them.

calzino, Sunday, 27 September 2020 12:15 (yesterday) link

lol @ calz grassing up his whole home town

The Wealth Dad $ |_/ (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 28 September 2020 10:49 (one hour ago) link

got to make some money somehow and I'm too soft to be a drug dealer!

calzino, Monday, 28 September 2020 10:56 (one hour ago) link

there's gotta be money to be made narcing out illegal rona parties nowadays

Mille scampeaux (Noodle Vague), Monday, 28 September 2020 11:01 (one hour ago) link

I'd rat out the local dealer just because he's a mean spirited twat. When he ordered a skip in front of his tanning salon and filled it with old household bits and bobs + furniture and stuff some poor sod must have been helping themselves to some of it and he replied with a nasty message: "Stop going through my skip - you're on cctv!!!!"

calzino, Monday, 28 September 2020 11:08 (one hour ago) link

Is it strictly speaking illegal to steal things from a skip, if they were going to be disposed of anyway? One for the legal eagles there.

your response will be deleted unread (Matt #2), Monday, 28 September 2020 12:11 (twelve minutes ago) link

I’m not sure how it is on the statute book, but under English common law, the magna carts and going back to the law of the forest; if you put a skip outside it is fair game for anyone to throw anything in or take anything out.

American Fear of Scampos (Ed), Monday, 28 September 2020 12:14 (nine minutes ago) link

i thought i remembered hearing on R4 or reading somewhere that strictly it's not legal? by the same lights that it isn't legal to rifle thru somebody's bins? but i'm not a lawyer and i prefer Ed's Freemen on the Skip interpretation

Mille scampeaux (Noodle Vague), Monday, 28 September 2020 12:18 (five minutes ago) link


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