generation limbo: 20-somethings today, debt, unemployment, the questionable value of a college education

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(this is branching off discussion in the quiddities thread)

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 16:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

think everybody is devoting their energies to the retweeted thread

dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 16:51 (seven years ago) Permalink

After college, he worked at an Apple Store in New York as a salesclerk and trainer, while furthering his music career in an experimental rock band.

beyond parody

Once Were Moderators (DG), Friday, 2 September 2011 16:51 (seven years ago) Permalink

euler keeps bringing up his state's 7k tuition as a value. in 1970 uc berkeley tuition was...$320.

the cost of education is going up because of:
a. administrative costs
b. unnecessary amenities (/'competition' for students)
c. student loan bubble / nobody is 'priced out' of college = no cost competition
d. belief that the state has less of a role in financing education, esp if a degree is a sound personal investment for someone

and without knowing his school name, I can bet that the tuition there is more than double what it was in 1990.

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 16:55 (seven years ago) Permalink

awkward pause

on the other thread remy said ``There's a bigger issue than the cost, though - the lack (or, often, perceived lack) of academic/writing/social/disability/ELL support and outreach for first-gen college attendees."

one of the reasons college costs have gone up so much is that we're hiring so much new staff, as opposed to (permanent) faculty (our salaries have hardly budged in years & are shite---my kids no longer qualify for reduced-price lunches this year but that's only b/c I got promoted). So I'm resistant to any suggestion that suggests we need more staff. Also I'm a first-gen American, first-gen college student, in fact one of maybe three in my extended family of say 40 people to have a college degree (& one of the others is my brother)---so my perspective is gonna be different re. first-gen college students needing support from universities in academic matters

in general in education as in all else, poverty's the issue, esp. in early childhood years; by college we can add value to people's already-in-place skills but we can't create those skills from scratch; only a parent or a community can do that.

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 16:56 (seven years ago) Permalink

By JENNIFER 8. LEE

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=77&threadid=67116

johnny crunch, Friday, 2 September 2011 16:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

One night she bumped into a friend, who asked her to join a punk rock band, Titus Andronicus, as a guitarist. Once, that might have been considered professional suicide.

hardcore oatmeal (Jordan), Friday, 2 September 2011 16:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

iatee I am sure our tuition here has way more than doubled since 1990, & that's shitty but as was said before, states have withdrawn support so we're doing the best we can.

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 16:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

right, but that 7k has to be put in perspective - it's not a permanent 'good deal', it's only cheap relative to other prices, and it's inevitably going up

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 16:59 (seven years ago) Permalink

A somewhat similar dynamic happened to the tail end of the baby boom generation, who attended college in mass numbers, although they paid less to do so.

Firstly, the leading edge of the boomers occupied all the available employment slots for college grads, leaving extremely slim pickings for the wave of boomers that followed them. Then the Reagan/Volcker recession shut down employment altogether for about 3 years. There were easily a hundred qualified applicants for any professional level job, however obscure the qualifications were.

Notably, when the yuppies emerged out fo the dust cloud of this free-for-all in the mid-80s, they tended to be the most competitive eye-gougers and back-biters of all. The less objectionable late boomers gave up and settled into carpentry or bartending types of jobs.

Aimless, Friday, 2 September 2011 16:59 (seven years ago) Permalink

yeah, the UC schools (& other public schools in which I may have more of an interest soon if things go well) have less inexpensive tuition---semi-privatizing the universities is an ongoing thing.

still kind of amazed at the value of public universities in the USA though; bragging but my classes kick ass & they're only paying like $700 for a whole term of it! a good dinner out with a date is gonna cost you what, a 1/7 of that? true that a student has to handle it right; when I go teach in a hour or so I'm gonna see some dead eyes that remind me that some of these kids aren't getting anything out of this, & that it's their fault (b/c after only a week I can assure you I'm not fucking up yet).

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:03 (seven years ago) Permalink

euler is your school increasing enrollment at all?

dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:04 (seven years ago) Permalink

in general in education as in all else, poverty's the issue, esp. in early childhood years; by college we can add value to people's already-in-place skills but we can't create those skills from scratch; only a parent or a community can do that.

But there's a way to 'correct' for some of those skills by offering fair support services. This is equitable, and right. Not everybody comes to college w/ the same background, but college could – potentially - close the gap between the struggling kids and the are-gonna-do-well-no-matter-what types. But I'm not even sure that 4-year college is the right answer, anyway, so maybe this is a moot point?

remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:06 (seven years ago) Permalink

attendance is at a high this year but the prez/board of regents is keeping it at more or less stable levels, so we're only about 500 students up this year iirc

my #s seem a bit down wait-list-wise but my classes are all full so things seem ok

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:07 (seven years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure that four-year college is right for those students either, but I think a lot of the problem is that while the "go to college & ~find~ yourself" is great for upper-middle-class kids, I don't think it suits others so well.

fwiw I feel the same way about the sexual revolution

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:09 (seven years ago) Permalink

jeez I didn't find myself until about four years after college

unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Friday, 2 September 2011 17:11 (seven years ago) Permalink

also before you people tell me to get to work

a) I've got the stomach flu pretty wicked right now
b) taught 3 hrs yesterday & gonna do it again for an hour today
c) was an awesome Pete Sampras at the US Open moment yesterday, hoping to play like a champion again today

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:11 (seven years ago) Permalink

I thought you were tenured? it should be ilx+tennis 24/7 now

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:12 (seven years ago) Permalink

wait maybe some sleeping...and eating

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:13 (seven years ago) Permalink

remy otm - there is a huge disparity in the quality of education that a student can potentially get before college.

dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:13 (seven years ago) Permalink

this article instantly reminded me of a nearly identical piece in Time Magazine from the early 90s about Generation X - over-educated, aimless, without economic prospects, debt-ridden, unlikely to scale the economic heights of their forebears, etc. I wonder if that is online somewhere...

I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 2 September 2011 17:13 (seven years ago) Permalink

haha yeah tenure but like Sampras I wanna keep rising high

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:14 (seven years ago) Permalink

yeah the thing is 'aimless college grads' has always been 'a thing', but right now we're in an economic downturn that's not comparable to anything else post-great depression xp

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:14 (seven years ago) Permalink

I guess part of what I'm getting at is that for students who require special accommodations, have either documented or undocumented LDs, speak mediocre English, need to take a slower, non-traditional (or interrupted) path through schools, or require additional mentorship or counseling, the the community college and state school system has often been welcoming, empowering and viable. Whether it's true or not, these students aren't perceiving the same help/options in these schools b/c of a one size fits all approach that now include a lot of more traditional students who need less in the way of support. For the school's bottom line, this is a good thing: accommodations cost money, and customarily the students who require them have a lower earning potential (as a group) than the students who don't, so why not focus on the most likely-to-be-successful students?

remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:15 (seven years ago) Permalink

ah here it is

xp

I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 2 September 2011 17:15 (seven years ago) Permalink

"Reason: America needs them. Today's young adults are so scarce that their numbers could result in severe labor shortages in the coming decade."

yeah this part doesn't come up in many articles today

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:16 (seven years ago) Permalink

boomers kids are their own demographic bump, gen x was the lack of one

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:17 (seven years ago) Permalink

What worries parents, teachers and employers is that the latest crop of adults wants to postpone growing up. At a time when they should be graduating, entering the work force and starting families of their own, the twentysomething crowd is balking at those rites of passage. A prime reason is their recognition that the American Dream is much tougher to achieve after years of housing-price inflation and stagnant wages. Householders under the age of 25 were the only group during the 1980s to suffer a drop in income, a decline of 10%. One result: fully 75% of young males 18 to 24 years old are still living at home, the largest proportion since the Great Depression.

In a TIME/CNN poll of 18- to 29-year-olds, 65% of those surveyed agreed it will be harder for their group to live as comfortably as previous generations. While the majority of today's young adults think they have a strong chance of finding a well-paying and interesting job, 69% believe they will have more difficulty buying a house, and 52% say they will have less leisure time than their predecessors. Asked to describe their generation, 53% said the group is worried about the future.

I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 2 September 2011 17:17 (seven years ago) Permalink

69% believe they will have more difficulty buying a house, and 52% say they will have less leisure time than their predecessors.

that much turned out to be true!

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:19 (seven years ago) Permalink

Because they are fewer in number, today's young adults have the power to wreak havoc in the workplace. Companies are discovering that to win the best talent, they must cater to a young work force that is considered overly sensitive at best and lazy at worst. During the next several years, employers will have to double their recruiting efforts. According to American Demographics, the pool of entry-level workers 16 to 24 will shrink about 500,000 a year through 1995, to 21 million. These youngsters are starting to use their bargaining power to get more of what they feel is coming to them. They want flexibility, access to decision making and a return to the sacredness of work-free weekends. "I want a work environment concerned about my personal growth," says Jennifer Peters, 22, one of the youngest candidates ever to be admitted to the State Bar of California. "I don't want to go to work and feel I'll be burned out two or three years down the road."

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:19 (seven years ago) Permalink

seems a little different to me!

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:20 (seven years ago) Permalink

Euler what is your field?

Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Friday, 2 September 2011 17:21 (seven years ago) Permalink

yeah sure there are differences - I haven't read the article in 20 years fwiw

I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 2 September 2011 17:22 (seven years ago) Permalink

gen x: lazy
millennials: overeducated, prob a little lazy, mostly just fucked

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:24 (seven years ago) Permalink

that article feels more like "aimless 20 somethings not sure of what they want to do", today's version of "aimless 20 somethings WANT to do something but finding all doors shut"

dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

yeah as far as I can tell In This Economy™ what used to be entry-level jobs all advertise as requiring 3 years experience. I somehow have gotten a few interviews anyway but every time one peters out I just get less interested in applying for more programming jobs and more interested in killing time until grad school.

Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Friday, 2 September 2011 17:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

I'm a phil-ah-soh-pher

which btw shouldn't be conflated with "the liberal arts" b/c our students aren't usually the dreamy-wanna-write-a-story types, rather they're the mass debater types & go on to do analytic work & typically get pretty well paid (unless they go to grad school obv)

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:54 (seven years ago) Permalink

you mean @ your school or philosophy majors in general

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:55 (seven years ago) Permalink

Not really involved in the discussion but here's a link that might be of interest - http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/31/historical-trends-in-college-tuition/

The linked post about the retained value of a college degree is also worth a look.

pullapartsquirrel (Jenny), Friday, 2 September 2011 17:55 (seven years ago) Permalink

both xp unless we're talking continental philosophers w/ all that crit theory bullshit & that's just dreamy-wanna-write-a-story stuff that isn't gonna get you anywhere

obv I am a pawn of the status quo

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:56 (seven years ago) Permalink

I dunno I think their prospects aren't much different from english majors or whatever, they just have a higher tendency to go to law school

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 17:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

if I owned 'generic business' I would totally hire a bunch of philosophy majors tho, seems like an undervalued asset (as long as I didn't have to talk to them)

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 18:00 (seven years ago) Permalink

what if 'generic business' was a 'medicinal marijuana shop'

dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 18:01 (seven years ago) Permalink

fwiw philosophy majors rank in the top three nationally on the LSAT, GMAT and GRE pretty much yearly; our only competition is physics & math iirc

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 18:02 (seven years ago) Permalink

xp lol

Euler, Friday, 2 September 2011 18:03 (seven years ago) Permalink

Got turned down for a job I had two interviews for today. FUCK THIS SHIT.

gay socialists smoking mushrooms with their illegal gardeners (a hoy hoy), Friday, 2 September 2011 18:03 (seven years ago) Permalink

xps to Euler: see I don't like the idea of denigrating "the liberal arts" as a thing, I legitimately believe that the liberal arts (including liberal study of the sciences) are the foundation of a democratic society; this is why high school is at least in part a weird mini liberal arts education. College as a job-training-and-credentialing exercise is just going to become a worse and worse value proposition (though it honestly isn't now, as college grads are still outperforming non-college-grads in the job market, modulo debt I guess), especially because the academy moves so slowly that by the time it has figured out how to prepare students for the economy of 2011 it'll be 2038.

a hoy hoy: YEAH NO KIDDIN

Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Friday, 2 September 2011 18:06 (seven years ago) Permalink

this is why high school is at least in part a weird mini liberal arts education it's becoming less of this all the time

remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 18:08 (seven years ago) Permalink

yeah I would like to see more discussion of the value of a liberal arts education itt. think a lot of ppl (though not all) who post to ILX prob have a degree in the liberal arts and went to liberal arts colleges?

dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 18:08 (seven years ago) Permalink

in diplomatic fashion i agree with elements of what both of you are saying. you can't continue accumulating massive loads of debt in perpetuity without running into problems at some point. but people like krugman will repeatedly argue that the amount of debt the U.S. current has and is projected to have in the near future isn't a fatal problem that can't be solved. there's precedent for nations taking on more debt (as % of GDP) as the U.S. and coming out fine by making policy adjustments. he was trying to persuade people of this back during the loudest days of calls for austerity, arguing instead for more stimulus/federal spending. but i guess all of that depends on how much you trust krugman and his econofriendz.

1992 ball boy (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 4 August 2015 01:31 (three years ago) Permalink

but out of the list of things that will possibly happen in the future that will be terrible for me, the ramifications of federal debt is low on the list

1992 ball boy (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 4 August 2015 01:32 (three years ago) Permalink

I think I basically agree with the Krugman-n-friendz take that you don't do austerity in a recession, and that ideally you spend the money on things like infrastructure projects that provide jobs to the working/middle class (who will spend money) and benefit the larger economy (e.g. by providing better transportation for workers and goods).

I am sort of wondering "at some point in the distant future is the federal debt going to fuck with my life at all?" though

five six and (man alive), Tuesday, 4 August 2015 01:33 (three years ago) Permalink

Greece's debt was also denominated in a non-sovereign currency, which seems like a confounding factor. Really, the raw size of the debt or the debt:gdp ratio wouldn't concern me as much as, like, the RMB suddenly getting way more expensive. Or some other kind of disaster. Our debt's cheap.

go hang a salami I'm a canal, adam (silby), Tuesday, 4 August 2015 01:35 (three years ago) Permalink

yes definitely the euro made things much more immediately terrible for greece (since it had no option of inflating its way out of the debt).

five six and (man alive), Tuesday, 4 August 2015 01:37 (three years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

https://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/social-sciences-and-humanities-faculties-close-japan-after-ministerial-decree

Japan radically scaling back social sciences in favour of 'useful' qualifications.

I wear my Redditor loathing with pride (ShariVari), Tuesday, 15 September 2015 07:46 (three years ago) Permalink

Idiotic decree - but I would've thought economics and law would be useful! Seems the decline in the population is as big a factor.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 09:34 (three years ago) Permalink

As for economics, well, perhaps Abe doesn't want too many people familiar with that quote Keynes attributed to Lenin: “The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency.”

called a 'Star' by the Compliance Unit (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 15 September 2015 09:36 (three years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

a strong contender for the worst thing i've read all week

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/8/9261531/professor-quitting-job

big WHOIS aka the nameserver (s.clover), Friday, 16 October 2015 06:48 (three years ago) Permalink

Critiques of my teaching and debate team coaching, often made through backchannels and delivered to me secondhand or not at all, centered on my easygoing personal style (He doesn't use the title "doctor!" He teaches in T-shirts!), my effusive student evaluations (If he's pleasing them, he must be doing something wrong!), and my relatively calm demeanor (If a young academic doesn't seem stressed beyond capacity, he's not working hard enough!).

yes these were definitely the critiques made

kinder, Friday, 16 October 2015 10:02 (three years ago) Permalink

hmm looking at his previous work, I am sure you could top that pretty easily xp

"Why I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Clickbait" in The Good Men Project Magazine, February 2014

"Masculinity and Competitiveness: Why I Quit Playing Video Games" in The Good Men Project Magazine, February 2014

"Rick Rude: The Loneliness of the Above Average Man" in The Good Men Project Magazine, December 2013

"So What if Barack Obama is Gay?*" in The Good Men Project Magazine, November 2013

iatee, Friday, 16 October 2015 13:23 (three years ago) Permalink

what's your biggest weakness?

that's a difficult question, but i suppose that if i had to, i'd say that i can sometimes care TOO much about this company.

1998 ball boy (Karl Malone), Friday, 16 October 2015 13:24 (three years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

But Veblen did not call Veblen goods “me goods”

heheheh

j., Wednesday, 23 December 2015 21:45 (three years ago) Permalink

Mission creep is driven by student demand (the terrible reality that America has no use for non-degreed workers any more)

This isn't necessarily true. Iirc, college enrolment has declined for three consecutive years and isn't predicted to grow again until 2017 at the earliest. The next ten years of growth are predicted to be relatively modest. When the economy is reasonably robust, a lot of people go straight into employment. The big growth years tend to coincide with recessions. For-profit colleges have been the worst hit due to a (necessary) increase in regulatory scrutiny and questions over vfm.

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 21:56 (three years ago) Permalink

The economic analysis in that article sounds pretty questionable in places.

Also, the word "loan" is conspicuously absent from the article although it's probably the main driver of college cost. Veblen good or no, a 120k "discount" price would appeal to far fewer status chasers if there weren't a virtually bottomless well of credit available with few of the limitations affecting other forms of credit.

on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 22:29 (three years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

The biggest problem we face is not financial illiteracy. It is compound interest.

In the coming decades, the returns on 401(k) plans are expected to fall by half. According to an analysis by the Employee Benefit Research Institute, a drop in stock market returns of just 2 percentage points means a 25-year-old would have to contribute more than double the amount to her retirement savings that a boomer did. Oh, and she’ll have to do it on lower wages.

Ari (whenuweremine), Friday, 15 December 2017 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink

I am 35 years old—the oldest millennial, the first millennial—and for a decade now, I’ve been waiting for adulthood to kick in. My rent consumes nearly half my income, I haven’t had a steady job since Pluto was a planet and my savings are dwindling faster than the ice caps the baby boomers melted.

I don't understand this. I've recently begun working at a Portuguese callcenter. This is not the best job in the world, it's probably pretty low in the hierarchy of jobs in Europe, wage is lower than any job in Denmark, but it's steady, and I'd never think to spend half my income on rent. This guy has enough experience and network to get a "highline" article on huffpost but he's unable to land a steady job?

Dunno, maybe things are just terrible in the US.

niels, Friday, 15 December 2017 22:14 (one year ago) Permalink

The rent situation here depends very much on where you live. Even the outskirts of popular cities can be expensive.

nickn, Saturday, 16 December 2017 00:08 (one year ago) Permalink

I'd never think to spend half my income on rent.

congratulations?

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Saturday, 16 December 2017 05:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Average take-home pay in the UK is something like £1700. Average rent is something like £850-£900. In London that is £2200 and £1600 respectively.

Obvs that includes rent on multi-occupier properties as well but I’d be surprised if anyone other than the fairly wealthy renting in the south of England is living on their own and spending much less than half their income on accommodation.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 16 December 2017 06:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Twenty years ago I was living on $18K a year but my rent (apartment with a couple of roommates, suburb of a popular city) was just under $300 a month, so $800 a month for the whole place. Just looked on Zillow and apartments of similar size in my old neighborhood are now renting for $2500 and up. So yeah, people who live there are spending half their income on rent unless they've got a lot of income for a young person.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 16 December 2017 06:23 (one year ago) Permalink

if i were paying the rent on the one bedroom apartment i share with my wife by myself i would be paying 50 percent of my wages on rent + utilities. my apartment is a coupe of hundred dollars cheaper than the average one bedroom in the city, i have a 9-5 office job at a university.

khat person (jim in vancouver), Saturday, 16 December 2017 06:48 (one year ago) Permalink

good story, thanks whenuweremine.

Nhex, Saturday, 16 December 2017 07:41 (one year ago) Permalink

This guy has enough experience and network to get a "highline" article on huffpost but he's unable to land a steady job?

yup!

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 16 December 2017 07:47 (one year ago) Permalink

lol yes exactly

Nhex, Saturday, 16 December 2017 07:51 (one year ago) Permalink

nothing matters

Nhex, Saturday, 16 December 2017 07:51 (one year ago) Permalink

with a little luck tho the huffpo check'll come by easter

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 16 December 2017 08:04 (one year ago) Permalink

Dunno, maybe things are just terrible in the US.

Wait til you hear about our healthcare system...

louise ck (milo z), Saturday, 16 December 2017 08:31 (one year ago) Permalink

sry to hear about crazy rent everybody, that's terrible!

just to clarify I rent a very small room and spend about 25% of my income on this - renting an apartment on my own would easily cost 50% of my income (so I don't, would be nice tho)

btw I know it's hard to come by steady jobs in journalism, I was suggesting that with the author's skillset it would seem he'd be able to land a different kind of job, pretty sure he could have my job if he applied

anyway, I don't mean to dismiss issues of poverty in the US, just found the author's tone... a bit much. Iirc pay gap and poverty issues have a terrible racial and gender slant, something about his apocalyptical victim narrative abt college educated millenials seems off to me. Not sure how trustworthy the US Census Bureau is but general outline in this article seems realistic to me https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493751949/census-bureau-poverty-rate-down-median-incomes-up

niels, Saturday, 16 December 2017 09:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Hobbes is from Seattle where the average rent in commuting distance on a 1br apartment is $2000. To hit the 25% mark, after federal taxes, etc, you’d need to earn $120k - of course he would still need to pay for healthcare, etc, which we do not. idk what the ratio of millennials to $120k jobs in Seattle is.

Renting a room, sharing a house, etc are all solutions to existing in a big city but the broader point about living in those conditions being a bar on a transition to doing ‘adult’ things like getting married, having a family...buying a table?…, etc is true. Living a perpetual student lifestyle is great if you enjoy it but generational expectations are being radically redefined.

Whiny millennials have access to the public ear in a much more obvious way than the people who bear the greatest burden of poverty but the contraction of the traditional middle class and expansion of paycheque-to-paycheque living aren’t things that we should be glossing over because other people have it worse.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 16 December 2017 10:04 (one year ago) Permalink

French owners are allowed by law to avoid renting to you unless the rent is at most 1/3 of your income, and in practice they take advantage of this, because French law makes it hard to kick someone out when they can't pay. so when we moved here we had to live 1h20 by train from the city. granted, we are a family of 5, and so need a bit of space (~70 m^2 works) but yeah, living in the city was impossible then.

now we live in the city because we got social housing (being gov employee with a long commute & big family got us priority). but to qualify for this *highly* subsidized apartment my salary still had to meet the 1/3 threshold and my starting salary did not, so we had to wait a year and a half to be eligible for social housing.

living in the countryside & commuting wasn't that bad because I picked a town where I could commute by train (we didn't need a car bc French villages are compact for daily life)(and half my transport costs were paid by my employer, by law). USA countryside doesn't permit this, so you're talking long car commutes there if you're not in the city.

droit au butt (Euler), Saturday, 16 December 2017 10:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Accounting for inflation, I spend twice as much a year on a train ticket as my (poor, immigrant) father spent on renting a two bedroom Victorian flat with a huge garden in central London in the eighties. The flat would rent for a minimum of £36k-£40k a year now. And I’m lucky! I own a house!

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 16 December 2017 10:33 (one year ago) Permalink

What was his internet speeds like

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Saturday, 16 December 2017 10:57 (one year ago) Permalink

those are very good points ShariVari, thanks

niels, Saturday, 16 December 2017 11:36 (one year ago) Permalink

The ratio of Millennials to $120k salaries in Seattle is heavily influenced by the proliferation of software developers working for Amazon et alia. Which is to say there’s a sizable supply of kids willing to rent a studio for $2000.

.oO (silby), Saturday, 16 December 2017 15:55 (one year ago) Permalink

every generation has seemed to rationalize selling out their potential and playing dumb in exchange for hypothetical material security, not just millenials, the poor kids

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 16 December 2017 20:38 (one year ago) Permalink

When you say something like that

Do you ever I mean ask

Assuming it even makes any sense as a statement never mind that it's accurate let's just assume in your head this is a coherent sentence and also a fact

Assuming that and don't forget you just made an ass out of u and ming then do you ever ask yourself why each generation does this thing you think they do

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 December 2017 23:49 (one year ago) Permalink

U ok hun

But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 18 December 2017 01:21 (one year ago) Permalink

I feel like that highline article dilutes its own argument by ultimately turning out to be about every bunch of Americans who ever graduated college during a major recession.

El Tomboto, Monday, 18 December 2017 01:34 (one year ago) Permalink

eh i'll take it, all that damn "milleniums are the worst" clickbait trash needs to be countered a little bit

Nhex, Monday, 18 December 2017 03:37 (one year ago) Permalink

U ok hun

― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 18 December 2017 01:21 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Read it aloud babes it might make more sense if it doesn't that's cool too x

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Monday, 18 December 2017 04:04 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah average rent is like 2 K in vancouver now, it's fucking bunk. also same as jim i'm in a decent rent sitch but it's easy to put half the cheque towards rent

In a slipshod style (Ross), Monday, 18 December 2017 04:50 (one year ago) Permalink

I live in a pretty small basement apt in Toronto and I spend about 40% of my take-home on rent.

Simon H., Monday, 18 December 2017 04:59 (one year ago) Permalink

one year passes...

ah, here, this is the thread

j., Tuesday, 12 March 2019 23:11 (two months ago) Permalink

Ray Liotta [V/O]: https://t.co/LR71RqUMIx

— 'Weird Alex' Pareene (@pareene) March 12, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 16:04 (two months ago) Permalink


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