indefensible: john gruber

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(PEDANTIC NOTE: House style here at Daring Fireball is to capitalize the second words in “iPod Mini” and “iPod Photo”, on the basis that they’re proper names, despite the fact that Apple’s marketing style is to use lowercase.)

you write a blog


caek, Thursday, 9 June 2011 09:46 (eight years ago) link

Really beginning to think that Gruber needs his own thread, but I don't want to be the one to start it.

The latest Talk Show podcast, 35-ish minutes in. They're discussing the new iPad cover and he's practically on some kind of nerd interpretation of the old "Magnets? How the fuck do they work?" routine.

So I dare to visit his website today because of his verbal spastic attack, and one of the links is to a news story about the actress from The Wire with his heartfelt and not at all patronisingly semi-racist comment of "That’s a shame, but I’m glad to see her alive."

― James Mitchell, Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:36 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

caek, Thursday, 9 June 2011 09:48 (eight years ago) link

he is a champ at this glib commencement speech bullshit

caek, Thursday, 9 June 2011 09:53 (eight years ago) link


It's not like we could go to Islam (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 9 June 2011 09:53 (eight years ago) link

The rate card for his weekly sponsorship is now $5,500 -- $286,000 a year if it sells out at full price.

not bad considering he just lazily throws up links most of the time.

joe, Thursday, 9 June 2011 10:02 (eight years ago) link

Don't think of iCloud as the new MobileMe; think of iCloud as the new iTunes.
This worked out just as he said.

James Mitchell, Thursday, 9 June 2011 10:08 (eight years ago) link

It also means iPhone users with iPhone-using friends and family no longer need SMS. I’ll cancel my SMS plan as soon as this ships.
I don’t think over-the-air backups or media syncing are coming soon. Wireless networking just isn’t fast enough. I’m not talking about Wi-Fi syncing over a local network to iTunes running on your Mac or PC — that may well be coming soon, but it wouldn’t solve the “how can these devices be ‘post-PC’ if they require a PC?” problem. We’re not talking about why the iPad needs a USB cable; we’re talking about why it needs a PC, period.

James Mitchell, Thursday, 9 June 2011 10:16 (eight years ago) link

haha, i'd forgotten that. glad that there is a place to document gruber's predictions with the same mixture of obsessiveness and gloating that he reserves for everyone else.

joe, Thursday, 9 June 2011 10:19 (eight years ago) link

"we’re talking about why it needs a PC, period"
What's the profit margins for Apple on iPads and iPhones versus Macbooks and Mac Pros? Suspect this might have something to do with it.

James Mitchell, Thursday, 9 June 2011 10:23 (eight years ago) link

The music on FM radio pretty much totally sucks

where did you read that? in a rolling stone you bought at an airport?

caek, Thursday, 9 June 2011 10:31 (eight years ago) link

I’m biased, insofar as I consider Apple’s strategy more appealing than Google’s. But that’s because my interest lies in having the best possible user experience — the best-looking UIs, the lowest-latency responses, the smoothest animation, the most elegant designs. I share that interest with Apple. Google’s interest is in reaching the largest possible audience. That’s why I chose, at the outset of this paragraph, to say that I find Apple’s strategy “more appealing than”, rather than, say, “superior to”, Google’s. Apple’s strategy is correct for optimizing the quality of the user experience. Google’s strategy is correct for maximizing the number of users for its apps.

James Mitchell, Thursday, 16 June 2011 07:39 (eight years ago) link

haha liking this thread no matter how redundant it is - keep em coming

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Thursday, 16 June 2011 07:49 (eight years ago) link

Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Not sure what it means if it’s true that their initial target is Mobile Safari specifically, not mobile WebKit in general. My guess is that it’s simply a result of Mobile Safari being so far ahead of the Android WebKit engine.

James Mitchell, Thursday, 16 June 2011 19:25 (eight years ago) link

yes, but it would be illegal under US, UK and EU law, so what's your point?

caek, Friday, 17 June 2011 18:09 (eight years ago) link

Has he always been so mean-spirited? I don't remember him being so spiteful just a few years ago.

lukas, Friday, 17 June 2011 21:51 (eight years ago) link

url a bit generous but otherwise, oh snap

caek, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:58 (eight years ago) link

Gruber seems to be right about things a lot of the time, though that's easy when the people he disagrees with are prone to willfully ignoring the fact that Apple is making hundreds of millions of dollars doing what it's doing and is preposterously unlikely to make any sudden changes in strategy. Also less of a raging, belligerent asshole than you might expect.

T.S. Eliot-themed roach fetish porn (silby), Sunday, 19 June 2011 03:49 (eight years ago) link

Also wrt the "buy whole cell phone industry" post that is sort of following up on an earlier link about how Apple could easily have enough cash in a few years to take itself private. That is, in an industry where firms are frequently assessed by their market cap or their VC funding or what have you, Apple actually has HUMONGOUS FAT STACKS OF CASH.

T.S. Eliot-themed roach fetish porn (silby), Sunday, 19 June 2011 03:52 (eight years ago) link

agreed that this guy is a bit of a dick, he has unsavory triumphalist tendencies, and thinks various middlebrow stuff is the height of human achievement - however as to his core competency, i do believe hes one of the best writers on design out there today

ice cr?m, Sunday, 19 June 2011 03:58 (eight years ago) link

Chock full of SEO crap: My comment on Marco Arment's comment on John Gruber's comment on David Pogue's comment on Google's Chromebook.

James Mitchell, Sunday, 19 June 2011 08:29 (eight years ago) link

Has anyone read the marco aren't Phish post?

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Sunday, 19 June 2011 09:34 (eight years ago) link

Damn autocorrect: Arment

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Sunday, 19 June 2011 09:35 (eight years ago) link

however as to his core competency, i do believe hes one of the best writers on design out there today

he doesn't really do this any more though?

caek, Sunday, 19 June 2011 10:18 (eight years ago) link

Got sick of his blog a while ago - but I have to admit his comment on the Chromebook is kinda on point, why does it deserve a "good try!" sentiment?

Nhex, Sunday, 19 June 2011 14:30 (eight years ago) link

Gruber's predictions that don't come true are still reasonable and make sense when you evaluate the facts available at the time. He can't rely on his mysterious inside sources all the time, you see.

You don't have to believe me, just ask Gruber. He's always Gruber. I mean, right.

mh, Sunday, 19 June 2011 14:52 (eight years ago) link

he doesn't really do this any more though?

― caek, Sunday, June 19, 2011 6:18 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah its not most of his posts, but when he does write a long piece i feel like he really gets where design is at re todays technologies

ice cr?m, Sunday, 19 June 2011 14:55 (eight years ago) link

also hes a v good clear writer

ice cr?m, Sunday, 19 June 2011 14:56 (eight years ago) link

chrisdejabet Chris De Jabet by daringfireball
Just got complimented on my @daringfireball shirt at the Apple Store. Because I'm handsome.
18 hours ago

*stabs twitter in the face*

ice cr?m, Sunday, 19 June 2011 15:42 (eight years ago) link

thought it was really out of line when this guy shot mr takagi

little dieter wants to FUCK (Princess TamTam), Sunday, 19 June 2011 15:50 (eight years ago) link

i really like gruber

which mac writers do you guys really like? i could use some more feeds in my google reader

markers, Tuesday, 21 June 2011 18:46 (eight years ago) link

Jean-Louis Gassee

lukas, Tuesday, 21 June 2011 18:54 (eight years ago) link

totally forgot abt him, thanking u

markers, Tuesday, 21 June 2011 19:21 (eight years ago) link

feel like this post embodies many of his less good qualities

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 21 June 2011 21:02 (eight years ago) link

how long till some shill links him this thread and ilx gets ~fireballed~

 summer is coming  (cozen), Tuesday, 21 June 2011 21:04 (eight years ago) link

one can dream

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 21 June 2011 21:05 (eight years ago) link

You are trying to view American McCarver on a shitty browser. Won't work.

James Mitchell, Tuesday, 28 June 2011 12:37 (eight years ago) link

Note that the UI screenshots are even set in Helvetica, not Arial. Some of the best evidence of good taste at Google I can ever recall.

duly noted.

joe, Tuesday, 28 June 2011 20:51 (eight years ago) link

guh arial and helvetica are like exactly the same shit stfu already

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 28 June 2011 20:54 (eight years ago) link

A friend shared this blog post on Google Reader:

I’d buy the NYT (for a mere $1.5bn!) and recruit John Gruber to be Editor in Chief of the “Yahoo! News” division.

I cried a little.

mh, Tuesday, 28 June 2011 21:04 (eight years ago) link

Oh god, until I read that blog post in full I thought that was a joke, like forcing him to cover stories about Microsoft.

James Mitchell, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 20:40 (eight years ago) link

Cringely's been half-nuts for years. Now I think he's full-nuts.

James Mitchell, Thursday, 30 June 2011 09:24 (eight years ago) link

well, he's got a point

caek, Thursday, 30 June 2011 09:26 (eight years ago) link

I guess it's not as bad as how he keeps referring to Paul Thurrott as a 'dick' purely because he writes about Microsoft.

James Mitchell, Thursday, 30 June 2011 09:36 (eight years ago) link

cringelys nutsness is the best part of his shtick, guy is not afraid to think big

ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:37 (eight years ago) link

I don't think Cringely's being nuts there! Even if Jobs is showing pictures of full server rooms, it's not like he's shown pictures of the entire interior of the facility, and it's completely possible that it's not that densely populated.

mh, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:38 (eight years ago) link

yeah but thats not some weird conspiracy designed to intimidate rivals, its just building out future capacity

ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:43 (eight years ago) link

p sure this dood killed caylee

ice cr?m, Thursday, 7 July 2011 03:51 (eight years ago) link


"congratulations to the tories"

joe, Friday, 8 July 2011 20:18 (eight years ago) link

wish someone would put this asshole in a room w/paul thurrott and then they can mutually annihilate each other

Once Were Moderators (DG), Friday, 8 July 2011 20:22 (eight years ago) link

You are trying to view American McCarver on a shitty browser. Won't work.

maybe i've just been developing for legacy browsers too long at this point, but this kills me. laziest shit ever - you run a SPORTS BLOG ffs

unique housing opportunity (swanbed.gif) (govern yourself accordingly), Friday, 8 July 2011 20:29 (eight years ago) link


sprout god (lag∞n), Tuesday, 14 August 2018 22:12 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Season 1 of True Detective is one of my very favorite cinematic achievements of the decade, right up there with Mad Men, The Tree of Life, and Django Unchained. I’ll add Inception to make it a top 5 list.

Jesus fuckin' Christ

faculty w1fe (silby), Friday, 21 September 2018 16:14 (one year ago) link


sprout god (lag∞n), Friday, 21 September 2018 16:17 (one year ago) link


illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 21 September 2018 16:47 (one year ago) link

what if theyre all just different levels of inception something to think about

sprout god (lag∞n), Friday, 21 September 2018 18:54 (one year ago) link

i like how he just gave us inception for free. he didn't have to do that

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 21 September 2018 19:59 (one year ago) link


— Richard Gaywood (@PenLlawen) September 24, 2018

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 24 September 2018 19:20 (one year ago) link

He needs to dust off his yardstick

faculty w1fe (silby), Monday, 24 September 2018 19:21 (one year ago) link

One of the biggest problems with Gruber in 2018 is everything Apple does has been comfortably boring since oh the iPhone 5S came out, yet he’s still out here breathlessly waiting on each new review unit like it’s a beacon, a yardstick by which his next six months will be measured or something.

faculty w1fe (silby), Monday, 24 September 2018 19:24 (one year ago) link

At this point I consider Facebook a criminal enterprise. Maybe not legally, but morally.

this is word salad

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Friday, 28 September 2018 17:10 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

My fondness and appreciation for 2001 is hard to convey. Most of it holds up remarkably well 50 years later. There are parts that still seem impossible, 50 years later. But what ultimately strikes me about 2001 is that it was an attempt by arguably the greatest filmmaker who ever lived to make the greatest movie ever made. Ultimately the work itself is what matters in judging any artistic achievement, but the sheer ambition behind 2001 staggers me whenever I contemplate it. From the scientific rigor to the stunning advances in special effects to the gorgeous 70mm cinematography to the mesmerizing editing and soundtrack, 2001 simply swells my heart.

I didn't used to think that the boring writing advice of "delete your adverbs" was worthwhile but now I do

they're not even the biggest problem with this paragraph though.

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Monday, 26 November 2018 21:20 (one year ago) link

fuckin love scientific rigor

lag∞n, Monday, 26 November 2018 23:35 (one year ago) link

any and all scientific plausibility in that movie provided entirely by Arthur C. Clarke presumably

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Monday, 26 November 2018 23:42 (one year ago) link

Had been waiting for someone to post this. Was not disappointed.

Millsner, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 08:14 (one year ago) link

Can’t wait for Bush to “nail it”

stet, Saturday, 1 December 2018 09:51 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

I remember when I got a hard time for suggesting it would be a good thing for an iPhone model to start at $1,500. A starting price of $1,980 is eye catching, for sure, but as I’ve been arguing for years, we accept the fact that pro laptops costs $2,000 or more, so why not $2,000 phones, when for so many people, the phone is by far their most-used and most important computing device? (Not to mention their primary camera.)

I can think of a couple reasons.

sofatruck, Friday, 22 February 2019 13:59 (eleven months ago) link

phones shd be $3000

lag∞n, Friday, 22 February 2019 15:36 (eleven months ago) link

Which do you look at more often, your phone or your college diploma? Therefore an iphone should cost more than a private college education and if you are not already saving for your child's smartphone you are making a mistake

mick signals, Friday, 22 February 2019 16:58 (eleven months ago) link

* Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services. The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much effort to do so), and has been largely discredited by one of Bloomberg’s own sources. By all appearances “The Big Hack” was complete bullshit. Yet Bloomberg has issued no correction or retraction, and seemingly hopes we’ll all just forget about it. I say we do not just forget about it. Bloomberg’s institutional credibility is severely damaged, and everything they publish should be treated with skepticism until they retract the story or provide evidence that it was true.

moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 7 March 2019 20:53 (ten months ago) link

He's right, but what a weird ongoing vendetta...

DJI, Thursday, 7 March 2019 22:16 (ten months ago) link

two months pass...

Those are problems I wouldn’t give to a monkey on a rock.

what the ever loving fuck

don't mock my smock or i'll clean your clock (silby), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 20:53 (eight months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Congratulations to the Toronto “Raptors”.

— John Gruber (@gruber) June 14, 2019

sofatruck, Friday, 14 June 2019 10:06 (seven months ago) link

three months pass...

I checked in on mr congrats to the tories and it's all Hong Kong stuff this week

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Friday, 11 October 2019 16:09 (three months ago) link

congrats to carrie lam

be goose, do crimes (||||||||), Friday, 11 October 2019 17:06 (three months ago) link

one month passes...

It’s pretty telling that the most anti-journalism people are people who think they’re journalists but have no idea how it works or how it’s made. Also we had 14 sources, and after the piece broke, nearly twice as many more.

— Kevin Nguyen (@knguyen) December 10, 2019

lag∞n, Tuesday, 10 December 2019 12:22 (one month ago) link


Honest question: why? I’m not trying to be obstinate — I’m genuinely asking what you think is objectionable about this story.

— John Gruber (@gruber) December 7, 2019

sean gramophone, Tuesday, 10 December 2019 15:02 (one month ago) link

ooh good I didn't realize we were talking about this new debacle over here

love to concoct a weird conspiracy theory that ends up painting one of my sponsors in a better light

a u.s. government department (mh), Tuesday, 10 December 2019 15:23 (one month ago) link

lol thanks for the context, here and away

maffew12, Tuesday, 10 December 2019 15:43 (one month ago) link

Unfortunately nobody gives enough of a shit about Grubes to cancel him :((((

Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Tuesday, 10 December 2019 16:54 (one month ago) link

he really built the perfect business

lag∞n, Tuesday, 10 December 2019 17:10 (one month ago) link

[Long update clarifying my theory on Away’s ouster of Steph Korey:]

— Daring Fireball (@daringfireball) December 10, 2019

sofatruck, Wednesday, 11 December 2019 16:53 (one month ago) link

clears things right up

sofatruck, Wednesday, 11 December 2019 16:53 (one month ago) link


DJI, Wednesday, 11 December 2019 16:56 (one month ago) link

his tea leaf reading and mythologizing from the outside... classic groobs

a u.s. government department (mh), Wednesday, 11 December 2019 17:01 (one month ago) link

and now:

Away’s new CEO was going to be second in command — until a toxic workplace story blew up

I can't wait for gruber's new hand waving explanation of how he was wrong, but still right

a u.s. government department (mh), Wednesday, 11 December 2019 19:26 (one month ago) link

its hilarious this is all over one of those reinventing the x companies that advertises heavily on facebook fuckin allbirds of luggage ass best hoodie in the world

lag∞n, Thursday, 12 December 2019 02:47 (one month ago) link

“I know this group is hungry for career development opportunities, and in an effort to support you in developing your skills, I am going to help you learn the career skill of accountability,” Korey wrote in one series of middle-of-the-night Slack messages to her customer service staff (emphasis hers). “To hold you more [paid time off] or [work from home] requests will be considered from the 6 of you...I hope everyone in this group appreciates the thoughtfulness I’ve put into creating this career development opportunity and that you’re all excited to operate consistently with our core values.”

lol this all must be so satisfying for whoever leaked those chats

lag∞n, Thursday, 12 December 2019 02:51 (one month ago) link

last month i saw an ad for Away on the train touting their lifetime warranty and scoffed to my friend, "yeah a lifetime warranty from a company that isn't going to exist in 1 year sounds great." and here were are

diamonddave85​​ (diamonddave85), Thursday, 12 December 2019 04:38 (one month ago) link

No spoilers:

I loved “The Rise of Skywalker” like no Star Wars movie since the original trilogy.

That palpable sense of camaraderie was there, and it just hit so many great notes. JJ Abrams nailed it.

— John Gruber (@gruber) December 20, 2019

Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 20 December 2019 12:34 (one month ago) link

that palpatinable sense of cameraderie

i chop up the orange and chomp on the inside of it (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 20 December 2019 12:36 (one month ago) link

Congratulations to the Sith

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 20 December 2019 12:46 (one month ago) link

somehow that's the most ominous review I've read so far

groobs likes it, something has gotta be fucked up

mh, Friday, 20 December 2019 15:22 (one month ago) link

He only likes bland slurries

Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Friday, 20 December 2019 15:31 (one month ago) link

definitely a peer to the early 2000s bloggers who were into "good design" and "cinema" but really only got off on posting stills from Kubrick movies and some Dieter Rams object of design on their desk

then James Bond got rebooted and Gruber partners with someone to create an artisanal, authentic note-taking iPhone app called "vesper" because it's really cool

mh, Friday, 20 December 2019 15:45 (one month ago) link

Someone being Brent Simmons, who confuses me by being good not bad for making NetNewsWire and Frontier but also bad not good for working with Winer and i suspect making enormous mountains out of molehills when coding.

stet, Friday, 20 December 2019 16:24 (one month ago) link

that space was kind of a loose-knit blogosphere with an affinity for apple projects and Simmons collaborating on that app was kind of the tail end of it, imo

I guess Simmons works at Omni now, which makes complete sense, and is coordinating a new NetNewsWire open source release which... idk, I wish it was useful to do RSS aggregation in 2019

mh, Friday, 20 December 2019 16:49 (one month ago) link

lmao vesper

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:55 (one month ago) link

Why would you need sync?

stet, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:13 (one month ago) link

I can’t remember, didn’t they do sync but priced out the best options pre-icloud apis and had a sweetheart deal with Microsoft, followed by a bunch of favorable MS content on the blog?

mh, Saturday, 21 December 2019 02:28 (one month ago) link

three weeks pass...

someone let the thread know when gruber's posted a new take on the luggage lady ceo situation

no impulse to read it myself, just want to ponder the possibility of a man touching a hot stove then repeatedly doing back to touch the burner

babu frik fan account (mh), Tuesday, 14 January 2020 21:27 (one week ago) link

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