54-46, that's my number: the Queens thread

Queens needed a thread to itself, feel like this will mostly just be about food but hey

dan have you had breakfast at de mole? $5 plates!!! it's becoming hard to justify eating mexican anywhere else w/ de mole's prices

De Mole breakfast is the BEST deal. And they do killer fresh juices as well. For the record, I was the first person to write a yelp review of De Mole.

Yeah, we can talk about food, or we can talk about the fact that the entire borough has no bookstores except like three Barnes and Nobles and a few that only stock spanish religious texts.

that'll be true in the rest of the city within 10 years.

have you been to cafe marlene?

No, never even heard of it!

Sounds promising for the neighborhood, but I can do without burlesque shows.

It's a little silly looking, but that's Queens for you! You can go to hipster places in Williamsburg where the design is totally cool and the food sucks, or you can go to weird euro places in Queens where the food is good!

yeah it looks borderline cheeseball but apparently has good food...haven't actually been yet (tho a read a long online debate by queens people complaining about the coffee prices.) anyway seems like it could potentially be a nice addition to the hood, never really loved aubergine.

My girlfriend will be happy there's another place to write. Cafescape never cut it, neither did Aubergine. She'd occasionally take the 7 to Communitea or Sweetleaf in LIC.

yeah we end up at sweetleaf fairly regularly, it's kinda gigantic after the renovation, seems more like an hipster institution than a cute coffeeshop now.

speaking of long island city, I'm excited that the court square transfer is almost done. I'm sure it will only save like 3 seconds but it looks pretty.

I would have loved having the escalators when I took that station! The total climb up from the G to the elevated 7 platform is actually like 5-1/2 flights or something!! And invariably the stairs are totally clogged and everyone has to go at the pace of the slowest member of the pack. Suuucks.

And by "the escalators", I mean, the ones I saw on the proposal sketch that was posted in the station like 2.5 years ago, which is probably the last time I was there.

Still get emails from Court Square Wines & Spirits, though. I should go to a tasting sometime.

that transfer looks almost done. They were working on it for the 7 months that I commuted from Woodside to Gowanus. Mornings was ok. Take the 7, come down the stairs. Get some breakfast at Sage. Get on an empty G train to brooklyn. Coming home sucked. Take G train to Queens. Climb scares. Walk 2 blocks. Climb more stairs. Get on crowded rush-hour 7 train.

By the way Laurel, your pic on facebook of Schnitzi House inspired me. I had been planning to go to Olympic Pita (though I was confused because I had been to Famous Pita and thought thats where I was going) so I went on sunday and walked around a bit after and saw Schnitzi House. Whoa wtf, are we discussing brooklyn food?

it's gonna be done in march, the stairs and tunnel is all done but they can't open it til the escalators/elevators work

NO BROOKLYN ITT

anyone been to m. wells?

Walked right by Sage last night doing that transfer and was tempted but didn't go in. We may not have a bookstore but we do have an award-winning library system with sevensix-day service, lots of newbooks and nice librarians like Virginia Plain. Actually what is the deal with this bookstore in Astoria: http://www.seaburn.com/Bookstore_Index.htm?

I went in there once, I think they have a greek section. it's pretty old school bookstorey.

gf was gonna get her (greek) mom a (greek) book but then realized she would have to buy something completely random as she does not speak greek

i miss queens. i hung out there a lot when i had an astorian boyfriend.

what's the best indian food in jackson heights these days?

M Wells was GREAT but pricey and a bit limited for non-meat eaters. Went twice for brunch. They're opening for dinner now but it's way high-end. Expensive organ meat dishes and such. We won't be going anytime soon but it's a great addition to the area.

I've never been in Seaburn.

The indian food in jackson heights isn't all that great and is totally inconsistent. Get nepali food at Mustang Thakali Kitchen. Mehfil is pretty big with the Jackson Heights whiteys, but they have a great weekend buffet, better then the joints on 74th st. They have this sweet tomato chutney that kills me.

there was one called ashoka that i used to like; dunno if they're still around or any good anymore.

yelp said it closed.

less snobby than dan w/r/t indian...anything on 74th seems fine to me. we like dosa place. also end up at jackson diner a lot mostly cause of the cocktails.

Delhi Palace is pretty good.

ime jackson diner was never that great, not worth battling the long lines for.

I like junky indian ok...but a lot of those places are pretty dire. The good food's all in Iselin, Edison, Hicksville, Jersey City etc.

edison otm

I'm one of those awful people who likes anything if it's spicy enough and jackson diner vindaloo is pretty spicy

another queens favorite of mine (and some ilxors from FAPs past can attest) was taverna kyclades on ditmars. yum grilled octopus!

http://www.tavernakyclades.com/

Holla! My library system actually sort of sucks, but thanks for the shout-out.

Seaburn is either going out of business or renovating. It's a used book store that never has/had anything good in it.

Is Aubergine closed now?

I had a horrible experience at M Wells. I went alone and they made me sit at the "community" table.

Ate at Delhi Palace in Jackson Heights the other day--it's a solid, though unremarkable choice.

Anyone have any good Filipino or other food recs near the Woodside library?

31-45

For the record, I was the first person to write a yelp review of De Mole.

i hope this goes on your tombstone dan

nah aubergine's still open

our favorite place near the library is probably quaint

wayyyy better burgers than donovan's

i just googled the street where my astoria guy lived and it's gentrified so much!

35-14, i believe? all those buildings look the same.

I don't know. On a good day I'll take Donovan's over anybody else. And I have had them at Quaint. I wish they had a larger and more varied menu. Other then that it's a great place. I've been to dinner a few times and always get the roast chicken with gratin potatoes.

Good filipino? I don't know. Payag has gotten mixed reviews. Went once, didn't know what to order, was underwhelmed. Have had breakfast at Engelines, it was good but mostly avoid the places due to low vegetarian friendliness.

Best places around Woodside library...Donovan's obviously, Rico Pan has great cheap empenadas and arepas and other treats. La Flor of course, for breakfast/lunch/brunch. Dinner is good too but more pricey. Rumphool across the street from Donovan's is really good Thai. Not as good as Srip or Chao, but better then anything in Brooklyn!

Cuckoo's Nest for Irish pub grub.

35-14 what? Astoria is a good place to visit to get a meal, but not somewhere I'd want to live. Very euro-trashy! Favorite greek is way up in Ditmars at the very end of queens just across from Astoria park and under the Hellgate bridge...Agnanti Mezze.

roommate always used to suggest fiesta grill for filipino, we never went but it's supposed to be cheap. sorta far from the library though.

ditmars.

yeah astoria feels way more euro-white than gentrified-white

though there are more $$$ restaurants

We love Arepas Cafe in Astoria as well. Same basic thing as Caracas but less hipsters and crowds and instead 1 delicious spicy mystery sauce, they have 2 slightly less mysterious delicious sauces.

The only real sign of gentrification, if you read gentrification as affluent white hipsters instead of affluent white euros (or even affluent white midtown office worker types) is Sparrow and maybe that bar that has deep fried pickles, what's it called?

But Astoria has always had certain amounts of gentrification going on, but always from a different angle. Like there's Astoria "hipsters" who all think they're too cool for sceney Williamsburg (actually just jealous!) and you have people from Long Island who work in midtown that figure Astoria is a good compromise. I'm sorry, I can be such an Astoria hater. But my girlfriend and I always play this game about labeling people as "hipsters" or "queens hipsters", which isn't to say a "queens hipster" is just a hipster who lives in queens. It's a totally different breed. For instance we have more in common with your classic brooklyn hipster then with "queens hipsters". Of course we lived in Brooklyn first.

So sad. We are just talking about food. I love Taverna Cyklades--a little more for the atmosphere than the food. It's on Ditmars around 34th St. I like the place near the park for atmosphere, not so much for food.

Best thing to happen to Astoria this year--the reopening of the Moving Image.

I co-started this thread. I can rant about white people if I want!

We'll try Taverna Cyklades. We had a decent meal at Philoxenia 2 years ago.

Astoria is a good place to visit to get a meal, but not somewhere I'd want to live. Very euro-trashy!

This is so lolsy. And true.

Astoria is a huge place though. I would say only the 30th avenue area could properly be called euro trashy (and that more so on the weekends). The ditmars area is almost sedate and suburban and the broadway area has more of a mix of Spanish and of course the Steinway area is Egyptian.

give me some examples of a "queens hipster."

signed,
brooklyn hipster for most of my life

Went to Ayada Thai recently, best Thai food I've had in the city.

I really do want to find out what's listed on the section of the Rumphool take-out menu that's only in Thai, though. Every time I look at it, it's like it's mocking me

I really do want to find out what's listed on the section of the Rumphool take-out menu that's only in Thai, though. Every time I look at it, it's like it's mocking me

find someone on the internet to translate it! l.a. has a restaurant called jitlada that became a big sensation when a diner made a translation project out of the "thai" (non-gringo) menu and shared it with the world.

not to derail the thread away from queens, but here's the post: http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=13933

And I've had that special Jitlada dish. The southern lamb curry. It was the spiciest most delicious thing I've ever eaten and I still dream about it.

Rumphool seams to be starting to at least put some of their specials in english on the whiteboard.

Ayada is good too, but I prefer Srip and Chao. I used to love Zabb but that was like 3 owners ago.

More on queens hipsters later.

sorry to keep discussing LA, but the deal with Jitlada is that it's this special southern menu that has nothing in common with what know of as regular thai food or the norther/issan styles that are so popular now. Seeing as how Thailand borders Malaysia to the south, it made sense that the food basically tasted more malaysian...at least the dish I had had an earthy/rendang quality to it.

I've been going to the Malaysian and Indonesian places in Elmhurst a lot recently as well, but with mixed results. It's particularly tough because the two people I go with are not meat eaters.

More on queens hipsters later.

There was a great Thai restaurant in Astoria, but it closed down--Poodams.

I don't think there are any hipsters in Queens, not in Astoria anyway. There are annoying college students and recent grads. There might be hipsters in LIC/Sunnyside?

There have always been hipsters sprinkled throughout Astoria. They just don't out. If they did they'd move to Williamsburg.

Poodams was pretty good.

Sunnyside has a few hipsters. LIC doesn't have many left, it's too expensive to live there and overrun by skyscraper dwelling ex-manhattanites. I once met a woman who moved out to sunnyside to save some money. She did her grocery shopping, went to the gym, at dinner, went to the dry cleaner...all in manhattan.

LIC always seems like it has lots of hipsters around PS1 but presumably none of them live nearby

She did her grocery shopping, went to the gym, at dinner, went to the dry cleaner...all in manhattan.

there are so many grocery stores / restaurants / dry cleaners / gyms around here...what a weird way to live your life.

you know what could be a really hip area? blissville. it's so isolated and weird. if I were in charge of queens hipsters I would propose taking over blissville.

pretty crappy transit options tho.

also you will probably get cancer, but that hasn't stopped people from moving to greenpoint

nah, seriously all the studies of the newtown waste issues has the problem spreading directly south and west into greenpoint. Nothing towards queens.

There are tons of brooklyn hipster artists types who have art studios/work in LIC, but don't live there. A few do but not many.

In the years I've lived here, I've seen a few hipster types move up to the south side of sunnyside thinking "hey, it's close to greenpoint! I can bike to Bushwick from here!". (not speculation here, talking about actual people I know!)

Then they get bored and move back.

People of Queens, I ask you:

Is it possible/likely to find an apartment that is
- within a 30-40 min commute of midtown east
- 2 or more bedrooms
- in a relatively safe neighborhood
- with a decent grocery store and a few decent places to eat
- and maybe a little green space too
- for under $1800 a month or less?

And if so, best places to look?

why do queens ppl (apart from vp) not fancy pints

hurting I had to move recently and looked at basically every queens CL posting for a couple weeks so I have a pretty good idea of western queens prices at the moment...I'd say 'absolutely'

except for the green space thing, there's no green space in most of the better neighborhoods in queens

ok I can budge on the green space

wanted to go to the last fap but was busy :( xp

http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/abo/2231038895.html

etc.

I concluded recently that there exists an unreasonable 'Brooklyn premium' that you pay in almost every neighborhood in Brooklyn just by virtue of it being in Brooklyn and regardless of whether it actually possesses any of that Brooklyn-ness that everyone seems to be looking for these days. I've decided I want to avoid that premium.

I've always wanted to live at the Bliss St stop.

Hurting, I looked recently (in Astoria) for a 2 bedroom in the 1600 range, and the prospects were dire. We do have ample green space here though.

The typical commuter neighborhoods are lic, Astoria, sunnyside, woodside, and Jackson heights. If you want to go a little further out, you could try forest hills and/or kew gardens. Any of these should have enough services/infrastructure for you.

I'm w/ dan when it comes to astoria, nice place to visit but didn't consider moving there when we had to move again recently. just about anywhere in the sunnyside-woodside-jackson heights corridor is gonna have some good restaurants and a grocery store + is gonna be safe + is gonna get you to midtown reliably fast. the 7 is actually the most frequent train on the system.

I live in woodside. HUGE (relatively) 2 bedroom apt. Safe building. Across the street from a park (doughboy). Great neighborhood. 7 Train. 7 express. R and V and LIRR. 1500/mo. Been here for 5 years though, but still.

Considering Sunnyside, parts of Woodside and Jackson Heights, you'd have to work hard to find an expensive dangerous area with nothing to eat!

LIRR is pricey but they don't always take your tickets, and it's 10 minutes from 61st st Woodside to Penn station.

If you want to be more adventurous, deals can be found in Elmhurst and Corona, but I'm a big Sunnyside/Woodside/Jackson Heights booster, obv.

Downsides to these Queens neighborhoods other than not having that Brooklyn-ness (which might even be a plus)?

Sunnyside residents can also join Sunnyside Park, but other then those, not a lot of green space that isn't a cemetery. Though Flushing Corona isn't far. It's not pretty but it's got history, the panarama of NY, the museum, worlds fair relics and a great little zoo.

2 or more bedrooms

hurting are u hinting at something

These areas don't have "brooklyness", which I define as....

No bars that aren't irish pubs or mexican sports bars.

No record stores or book stores.

Not many traditional brunch places.

It's worth noting that I have a car and go to Brooklyn several times a week. Sometimes several times a day. If I was 25 and single and had no car, I'd probably still be in Boerum Hill. Or living off Cortelyou St. in Ditmas Park which has way less to offer than queens, but is still hipper.

But it's not hard to get to Brooklyn without a car. You can bike easily. Or take the 7 to the G.

And there's 1 bus that goes from sunnyside to greenpoint but they recently cut back service to no weekends or late nights.

But yeah, I'd say most people who choose queens do it because or end up feeling that it's preferable to "brooklyn-ness", either because they don't need it, they're better then it, or they're jealous of it. Or a little of all three.

yeah green space would be my #1 drawback - like when I go jogging I have some paths set out, but it's def not the same as running in central/prospect etc. flushing meadows is a super interesting place but it never feels like a park.

other possible downsides:
- the bars are all irish or spanish
- generally hard to convince manhattan/brooklyn people to visit.

(xp)

I like brooklyn and we spend a lot of time there, my #1 reason for not wanting to live there is that the western queens -> midtown commute is way better than the brooklyn -> midtown commute.

I don't think 'not many traditional brunch places' is true dan! tons of good brunch, quaint/la flor/de mole/diners everywhere/lots of stuff in astoria

I disagree. I want eggs benedict! Quaint is the only traditional brunch. La Flor is awesome, I love the quesadilla for brunch, but the other places are just breakfast. It's a subtle difference but a signifier of sorts. But brooklyn is filled with these great restaurants with awesome brunches. M Wells is great in LIC but Astoria, not so much. Sparrow does a nice brunch. I tried Locale and it was horrible. Arepas Cafe does brunch, which is good. But when I lived in brooklyn, every other storefront was a french bistro serving good brunch. I know most of those suck now, but think about the non-diner brunch options in Fort Greene, Williamsburg and Greenpoint.

On a sunday morning if I want eggs benedict and a bloody mary, Quaint is my only option. And I can't do that on a saturday because they don't serve brunch on saturday. WHY?

regarding moving here...things to note when searching.

Sunnyside is split into two parts, south side is cheaper, mostly latino food but a mix of residents and pretty pleasant. North side has the landmarked gardens and is more expensive and quite beautiful.

Woodside is a confusing mess. Technically the bottom of the south part of sunnyside IS woodside. Then there's parts like where I am which borders sunnyside. From here you can follow roosevelt until you hit Jackson Heights. It gets uglier the further east you go, but it's not a beautiful neighborhood to being with! Further south in woodside you're near Queens Blvd, which isn't great. Further north you cross Broadway and Northern and there's a whole part of Woodside that's like Astoria East. You're not near the 7 or all the good stuff, you're just near Northern Blvd, which is kinda lame. The closer you are to Roosevelt and/or Sunnyside, the better.

Jackson Heights is funny because it starts really dense in little india but the further east and north you go, you get these bigger nicer apartments which has become a common place for white people expecting children to move. The buildings are great but at some point, again you're too close to Northern and too far from the good food and the express trains and all of that.

Just some things to think about.

Even if you don't live on this street:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12575421@N08/4808629210/

it's nice to walk down it on your way home from dinner.

I was actually hoping to move to north sunnyside, cause it's great. but in retrospect south sunnyside can be a better place for day-to-day reasons, I'm a block from the 24 hr cvs and 2 blocks from 3 quite decent grocery stores. this affects me more than pretty buildings!

some storenames actually conform to the ridiculous neighborhood boundaries, like some of the south sunnyside 'technically woodside' shops have woodside in their name. I think of everything south of qb as sunnyside and everything on skillman as sunnyside.

likewise everything north of northern is astoria as far as I'm concerned

Right, but if you look for Woodside real estate you'll find tons of ads for Blvd Gardens, this huge old development that is very far from anything you'd consider Woodside.

I agree, I think living north of QB would be nice but it's more expensive. And you're within blocks.

Queens BLVD is so weird (for those who don't know, down there it's a major commercial strip, when sunnyside turns into woodside it becomes more of a highway even though there are still shops on either side all the way out through eastern queens. It's a shame because I was walking along the northside of QB the other day and noticed all these empty storefronts. There's so much potential there, if only something would open up that wasn't another irish pub.

Have you been to PJ Horgans? Really charming little place. Some chowhounders say they have a better burger than Donovans. When we moved here we were excited but there's a lot of misfires down there. Yeti of Heizen, the nepalese/japanese place gave us some really questionable stuff.

Both Turkish Grill and Mangal Kabab are good. For the money, Mangal Kabab is GREAT. And Tangra is HILARIOUS. Decent Indo-Chinese food, but the decor has to be seen.

Public space is so scarce that any semi-public piece of open asphalt is referred to as "green space." In fact, Hurting, you can help preserve what little we have now http://growapark.org so that Hurting, Jr. will have a place to play in a few years.

part of the reason there are so many empty storefronts is the rent for queens blvd is so high - have been reading up on this actually. some people think it's cause the landlords have to pay for the business improvement district which covers that particular area and puts up the 'welcome to sunnyside' signs etc. - OTOH they might just be greedy building owners hoping for more starbucks-type businesses. but yeah, it seems to come down to rent.

the girl like yeti, still haven't been to turkish or mangal. there are some new pizza places in the area though, sunnyside pizza on qb and something else just opened up on greenpoint (forgot the name...lenny's?). anyway sunnyside pizza's grandma pie is good, better than anything in woodside I think, haven't tried anything else. 'it's hard to find good pizza' is another downside, hurting.

are any of you guys *from* queens? (not a judgment thing, i am not from here either)

wow I had read about the travers park thing in passing but didn't know that much progress had been made...feel like the play street got a lot more media attention

xp haha no I'm from socal

I'm from new jersey so I deserve extra outer borough cred!

are any of you guys *from* queens?

what part'd you grow up in james?

For pizza we drive and pick up from rosa's in maspeth. Also go to nicks in forest hills. There's also a charming/greasy place across the street from kew gardens cinema we get a slice at before seeing "indie" movies

Bayside. After college lived in Manhattan for two years, then lived in Brooklyn for eons, then moved to JH four years ago.

I adore the kew gardens theater, probably my favorite place to see movies

tbh, it still irritates me a little when I hear certain neighborhood boosters go on about their favorite strawman "the people from Park Slope" but I haven't heard that in a while.

strawpeople

bayside seems surprisingly urban along bell...I always had thought it was suburbs-suburbs before I visited. has it changed over your lifetime?

also am immune to the charms and profundities of certain outer borough sages.
(xp)

no it was always like that. Different stores, less restaurants but it didn't get built up any more than it was. Maybe since W.C. Fields time.

how do you feel about the changes to yr borough? (many xps to james r)

i now live in carroll gardens, brooklyn. a few years ago someone made a ten-minute film featuring long-time locals. (it still retains some of its recent italian past, not least in my landlady, but nothing of its long-ago irish origins.) one dude in the film was like, 'this is our neighborhood, and we'll fight for it!'

and on the one hand i get it that the neighborhood was close-knit and you knew everyone and it seemed eternal. but on the other hand -- what are you fighting for, and who are you fighting? the old people have largely cashed out and moved to florida -- i assume they're okay. it's still okay here, even if there are more high-end baby strollers.

also am immune to the charms and profundities of certain outer borough sages.

But sage is the only decent place to eat in that immediate area.

what I find interesting about queens is that unlike manhattan and brooklyn, it's actually not recovering lost population. queens today has twice the population of queens in 1940 whereas brooklyn and manhattan have fewer. it's not so much gentrifying as uh...urbanifying. flushing is a pretty interesting case study - there are some super alienated old white people who still live there.

fewer people*

(xp)
Don't like the ugly McMansions that they keep putting up to replace the jolie-laide little half-timber or brick two-families out in the old neighborhood, where my sister still lives. Still get a little surprised when I drive down Northern and see all the Korean shops but don't mind it. Interesting to pass by houses where schoolmates grew up and think that most likely nobody they are related to lives there anymore.

haha sage joke.

good point about urbanifying

I didn't know there was so much disdain for Astoria. You guys are going to give me a complex. Hurting, if you consider Astoria I recommend either living near near broadway and MOMI or living in ditmars where you have Astoria park. My friends who live in Jackson heights like the fact that in Astoria there are more restaurants and bars and new stuff is opening all the time. One friend who lives in Jackson heights doesn't like that it's becoming like park slope.

I would base your decision on what train you need. If you don't work near the 7 you'll have to transfer. I would consider living in sumnyside except the 7 isn't convenient for my work.

I don't mind spending time there, it just has a really different vibe. Some of the residential areas seem like these long samey blocks and it doesn't have the same neighborhood feel as those others. I guess it's a gut feeling mostly.

haha okay disdain is probably the wrong word...maybe part of it is that when you approach astoria from our part of queens you first get the trashy steinway astoria.

good things about astoria:
love the middle eastern part of steinway, especially at night.
astoria park, obv
I like 34th avenue for some reason
brooklyn bagel mmm

otoh the beer garden is surely the single worst place in the borough

for the record, hurting jr is neither confirming nor denying a run for president

no to be clear, there isn't one on the way yet, just planned

otoh the beer garden is surely the single worst place in the borough

― iatee, Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:37 PM Bookmark

btw, thank you for saying this. Everyone talked it up so much and when I finally visited it I felt like it was such a characterless shithole.

it's such a bizarre environment, like some frat's social chair fucked up and threw the annual kegger in the middle of a queensy neighborhood

ex-fucking-actly!

Which beer garden y'all talking about? 36th Street or 24th Avenue?

24th, bohemian. I haven't been to studio square, cause I heard it appealed to the same crowd.

I had a good time at the beer garden once, went at like noon on a saturday. Had some lunch, drank some beer, played some boggle. There were little or no lines, plenty of tables. By 4 or 5 it was filling up with a rowdy crowd and by the time we left there was a huge line. A big fight broke out that was kind of crazy.

Never been to studio square, seems like it would be a worse crowd.

Went to Dutch Kills for the first time a few weeks ago. It was really crowded around the bar but the waitress service tables up front looked really nice.

are any of you guys *from* queens?

i was born in flushing. and my mom lived in bayside when she was growing up -- graduated from bayside high.

LIC doesn't have many left, it's too expensive to live there and overrun by skyscraper dwelling ex-manhattanites.

the area where i live now (the "arts district" part of north hollywood) reminds me of what LIC was like 10-15 years ago. there's a lot of raw space where people have built practice spaces, recording studios, theatres, art galleries. it's gentrifying (slowly, thanks to the shitty economy), but if you stay away from the condos, the rents are still cheap-ish.

Far as I know that doesn't really exist in LIC. When I first looked to moving there, after my first apt after college in 98 or so, we just couldn't find anything. More recently before moving to Woodside I looked again, not at the skyscraper condos but regular ol' apartments, and they were really expensive...1800 dollars for a 1 bedroom where the kitchen and living room was one room. Another place we looked at was a really nice homey apartment but the owners said they'd come back regularly to use the basement and backyard, neither of which we were allowed in, and they kept talking about all the renovations they did because they thought their kids were going to live there and they started crying. I think the problem is there just isn't a huge stock of housing.

cheaper rent exists next to the queensbridge houses...that's technically LIC (or 'ravenswood') but I can't think of any good reason to live there. I like wandering around LIC, I think it has a really cool aesthetic, 1/3 industrial dirt and grunge + 1/3 historic queens + 1/3 super contemporary buildings. and gantry plaza state park is really laid back and nice. but there really aren't a ton of grocery stores and I feel like one block of restaurants would get boring after a while. I'd imagine the people who live there are probably like dan's aforementioned sunnyside person who lived her life in manhattan.

they're still in the process of building it up considerably, though, and in 20 years it'll be pretty populated.

I've been searching all over Queens and parts of Brooklyn for studio space and have been really frustrated. The areas on the other side of the Ravenswood projects and near the Noguchi have some great deals, but it's pretty far from any trains. Just above Queensborough Plaza there are some deals as well, but you're not very close to the G. Below the plaza closer the G things get expensive.

There's some interesting areas further away from the G that appeal to me because they're closer to my house...the Standard Motor Parts building on Northern and 36th and the area around Laguardia Community College which is still considered LIC but is on the Sunnyside side of the Sunnyside train yard.

Virgie Plain, I'm only laffing at Astoria because I had to hear its praises aaaaaall the time. My ex was SO into the food and stores and being around "other Europeans" and was dying for us to move there so he could buy Vegeta. I dug my feet in because I'm stuck on Bk, obv.

those areas are sorta like walking through a freeway, which is why they're good deals I guess. I'm surprised that lcc students don't get hit by a car on a daily basis.

otoh they're actually building a lirr station on skillman and queens boulevard as part of the east side access project, would make it a pretty damn convenient area for you in a few years dan

My friends who live in Jackson heights like the fact that in Astoria there are more restaurants and bars and new stuff is opening all the time. One friend who lives in Jackson heights doesn't like that it's becoming like park slope.

yeah jh really doesn't have that much park slopey stuff...espresso 77 and a starbucks? that's about it isn't it?

Can't think of anything else. And even e77 has a local feeling, the owner and his niece who works there are Bangladeshi.

The jax hts complaint was about babies and strollers, which the historic condos attract. I like the beer garden. But its only good if you go with a crowd of people. The other beer garden sucks. I like Dutch kills but its not too convenient for me.

I have some friends who live in homey family-style apartments in lic bu whenever I've looked it's just been the fuck-off overpriced new construction high rises. Th main difference between Brooklyn and queens (besides the social aspect) is that queens is lacking in historical brownstones and good-looking architecture in many respects. Though there's is a certain charmnin

yeah a few blocks in lic are the closest thing queens has to any brownstones and even the pretty garden-style sections of sunnyside, jackson heights, forest hills, kew gardens are a few blocks away from hideous looking stuff. I think if queens had the bronx's art deco housing stock it'd be a much more expensive place...you'd there are certain upper limits to gentrification, like I can't imagine upper class people ever taking over a neighborhood that looks like woodside.

this style architecture:

http://links.mlslirealtor.com/mlsphotos/full/1/570/2324570.jpg

is not just unattractive, it's like, so fundamentally ugly that it's almost impressive

It's just hideous infill.

But from the inside, it probably has significant advantages over the "historic charm" kind of buildings that we all nevertheless prefer. Plus, balcony/ies!

I wish they could just ban those awful cheap metal awnings. it seems like a lot of them weren't originally on the buildings. does anyone know the history of this style?

But from the inside, it probably has significant advantages over the "historic charm"

Well it would depend on when exactly they were built and what the owners wanted for the interiors, but it's like they're built from kits or purchased plans, so interiors are less haphazard than a 150-yr old building that's been cut up 6 ways to Sunday. Plus more likely to have laundry on the property somewhere, plus normally sized rooms that will all have at least SOME kind of window, even if the construction itself is poor-to-middling. Kitchen spaces that are actually kitchens, with recent-model appliances.

Some of the upsides are just from being NEW, period, and I don't imagine the buildings as a whole are going to age very well, so it makes them tolerable to rent but not to buy.

Plus, balconies!

Actually aren't awnings as a general concept super energy-efficient and good? Retractable cloth ones obv much classier than metal ones but also more expensive and need occasional repair/replacement.

even the pretty garden-style sections of sunnyside, jackson heights, forest hills, kew gardens are a few blocks away from hideous looking stuff.

our last building in woodside was probably built 70s/80s not quite one of those barf rowhouses but a 3 story thing with the same pink brick. our current one is 1920s, definitely has more 'historic charm' inside (old school very loud heating, there's a huge very hot water pipe in the bathroom, etc.) neither has laundry inside. def prefer historic charm.

xp

yeah we like to walk to cannelle and the walk up jackson heights is particularly tragic, cause you have some absolutely lovely garden neighborhoods followed by some decent middle class housing followed by the row houses in east elmhurst that are practically mobile homes, but aren't even as nice as mobile homes... some of the ugliest buildings I've seen in my life.

I'm just curious as to how this particular aesthetic choice has persisted so long and spread so far, I mean 'cheap' is surely at the root of it but the buildings made in sunnyside/ridgewood mathews flat style (skillman ave etc.) were also cheap - they'll never be brownstones but they have a definite middle class charm...

Photo example of Skillman Ave style, pls? Looking on gmaps but where I am it's mostly industrial, so....

http://www.astorialic.org/photo/mathew/mathew_index.shtml

So the question is, why is a well-designed building that both the architects and the laborers put extra work into more attractive than a poorly designed/undesigned building that everyone put the minimum of work into? No, seriously, idgi.

the fundamental reason why they're crap makes sense, I'm more curious as to why one particular style seems to have spread

there's an entire blog dedicated to this:

http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/

at least it was when it started. People call the buildings "Fedders Boxes" or something, because they all have those empty boxes below the windows for ACs.

Those Mathews Model flats buildings are in other neighborhoods. I've seen them in Brooklyn, can't remember where.

that's a hell of a blog, dan

Isn't the style we're complaining about from about 70 years later than the GX Matthews buildings? I don't think it's possible to overstate the affect that crappy Home Depot-level building supplies have had on the lower end of housing construction -- it is now possible to get all your cheap and ugly in one place, and looking exactly like everyone else's cheap and ugly. This accounts for probably all of the cheap unpainted pine door jambs and window-frames in the entire city, and all the boob-like light fixtures, and all the really fucking ugly bathroom vanities.

maybe part of bushwick that borders ridgewood?

I always thought that blog was more just general nimbyism (and sorta anti-immigrant/republican).

btw, renovated MOMI theaters and cafe very Kubrickian, but most of the programming is excellent. I will probably go every 4-6 weeks or so.

(still can't get used to AMMI as MOMI, I guess there was an official name change)

and obv I will be around for a few carefully selected Mets games.

Yeah, but in the beginning every post was about how people would tear down a beautiful house in flushing and replace it with a 12 story feders apartment complex and pave over the grass yard for parking.

This was also during the fights over the landmarking of Sunnyside Gardens.

i was serious, dan!

I was responding to iatee's comment about it's content.

(still can't get used to AMMI as MOMI, I guess there was an official name change)

I'm annoyed that there isn't a more popular queens-wide blog than the crapper - which I don't check often but def has moments of flat out racism. but I guess there's not a lot that LIC and queens village residents have in common.

plus despite everything I think infill is actually a great thing (in theory) and an ugly 10 story building is probably better than none at all.

tho I guess it makes sense that the only thing that works as a borough-wide interest is nimbyism

I think 'MMI' is the preferred new acronym

I read queens crap, but dude's position on immigration is off-putting, to say the least.

I think the historic garden coops in Jackson heights are the closest thing to desirable architecture in queens. My building looks very modest from the outside -- one of a row of 6 family 3 story brick buildings - but it was built in the twenties and is actually in great shape and very solidly constructed. Before I lived in a 4th floor walk up apartment building that was also older, nice construction - but for queens. I would love to live in one of the cute houses on ditmars blvd.

there are lots of cool historic buildings in the astoria village area, like the little flatiron building. I like the walk down that block.

oh also around the north-woodside astoria border there's this suburban rowhouse that looks almost frank gehry-esque, completely out of nowhere. it's completely random and I've always wanted to know if there was a story behind it. anyone seen this?

where exactly?

There's lots of pretty areas in Queens but many of them are further out or just too expensive. The really nice JH garden co-ops aren't exactly cheap, nor is Sunnyside Gardens. Parts of Forest Hills and Kew Gardens are gorgeous, but there's not as much to do.

it's either on 31st or 32nd avenue...I gtg but I'll try and find it on google maps later

I take it back, I love you Astoria:

http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2011/02/pachanga.html

Circumstances have been bringing me to Forest Hills and Kew Gardens a lot lately, and I have concluded that either would be a nice place to live were one to have a family. I particularly like Metropolitan Avenue around Forest Park. There is a less suburban-y part of Forest Hills, near Nick's Pizza and the nice Japanese food store around Ascan Avenue that I like as well.

How come no one wants to talk about Richmond Hill?

gah I think it's on a part of the map that google streetview doesn't cover. I swear this strange little house exists.

I've only been to richmond hill once or twice and never ate there...getting to anything that isn't near the astoria/flushing/queens boulevard subway lines is something we can only do on the weekends. living that far on the j/z seems like it would really suck but I guess it's still a step up from no subway land. dan you ate there didn't you?

forest park seemed like it was more forest than park, probably a nice place to go jogging but not much else?

Thanks for the food rec, Dan--that's right around the corner from my house.

I walked around Forest Park when I was doing jury duty and I was going down completely deserted trails and worrying about being assaulted.

But what about South Richmond Hill, home to a vibrant Guyanese and Trinidadian population and the place I am currently posting from?

Forest Park is great, I think it has the largest old growth forest in NYC? Meaning it's not invented like the other big parks but actual old trees.

They have a nice vintage carousel, but be careful hanging out there sitting on a bench with your girlfriend and not children, watching the carousel, because people will likely think you're planning to steal a child.

I've been to South Richmond Hill twice for dinner. First time we went to a place who's name I can't remember and it was great. They were really nice, the kind of place where they just give you a plate of stuff and then they say "you have to try this" and then the woman service you says "mom, can I go do my homework now?" and at the end you're like "how much was that?" and they just make up a number. Had doubles and some jerk chicken and a bit of goat and some delicious desert snack. Went back a few months later with a third person and EVERYTHING was closing and it was only like 8 or something. Really weird. Found some place that wasn't quite as good. I can't compare them to the Brooklyn places though. Been meaning to go back.

Other queens food adventures include Mumbai Xpress in Floral Park, which was OK. They make the kind of indian snack foods that you can't find elsewhere outside of the good places out in Jersey. Also, deep in flushing across the street from Southern Spice, which is a pretty highly regarded/agrued about indian option, is a Sri Lankan place that is one of the dirtiest places I've ever been to, but they had the dish where they take roti and spices and vegetables and meat and fry them all up together while chopping them up, I think it's called Kottu Roti, and it was totally awesome.

Only other Sri Lankan place I've been was at San Rasa on Staten Island, where they have an amazing sunday brunch.

hmm that last dish sounds pretty good, how deep in flushing are we talking?

20 minute walk from the 7 train. There's a lot of gems down there. The Sri Lankan place is called Bownie Restaurant, with Southern Spice across the street. Not too far from there is M+T, one of the more interesting Chinese places in NYC, from a northern region in china...they had a fried fish dish with peanuts and peppers that is the best thing ever:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3848975/mt.jpg

We walked from the Main St. stop once, but mostly drive.

sorry, always mixing up italic and image tags.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3848975/mt.jpg

That's fried fish. Time Out had written about it. We couldn't find it on the menu so we had to point at the review posted in the window. At the end of the meal I asked the waitress what it was called so I could find it in the menu next time. She said that there was an error in the menu and that it was listed as "fish stick soup". I said "that's not a soup." Hope they fix that!

20 mins isn't bad, don't think we've ever been to that part of east flushing. looks like 45th ave is the main commerce street? we've ended up in flushing a lot lately to target/bed bath/etc. furnish our new place.

http://grieve-smith.com/transportation/blog1.php/2011/02/06/envisioning-a-great-walking-boulevard

discuss!

We drive or take the R to the Queens Blvd for the mall and target. Actually more often we drive to the Target in College Point.

he doesn't mention the other alternative, which is Northern Blvd leads directly the Queensborough bridge and is a much more appropriate entrance then Queens Blvd in Sunnyside, which is flanked by small retail, food, several community colleges and high schools, etc.

when we were in woodside we'd just walk to the 65th st station to get to the mall, but now flushing seems more practical than transferring. plus that area is such a clusterfuck, not always in the mood for it.

yeah I like the article and am obviously pro-congestion pricing but that doesn't seem like a direct answer for this problem, triborough has fees and the area around there isn't quite a pedestrian paradise. I think traffic cameras / enforced speed limits + some greenery would be the right start.

How about a pedestrian bridge over the 7 train? Think of the views!

otm

I have had that exact thought many times! the queens high line. I imagine construction costs would be realllly hard to justify, is the thing.

does anyone remember the grind cafe? (qns blvd and 39th) i miss it...

i like aubergine. haven't tried cafe marlene yet.

it was gone before I moved here, but now that I currently live 2 blocks from there...would probably be there every other day. the sign on the wall is still up. where do you live RR?

I never went to the Grind but that's where our CSA pick-ups were going to be before it closed. I mostly read bad things about it on chowhound or the sunnyside yahoogroup or somewhere.

I was over there today looking at a commercial space. It's really crazy down there, basically when 90% of the printing industry fled manhattan, they either went to NJ, western LI or that part of sunnyside. I had never walked right in front of Soel, just seen the lines on weekend nights. Pretty hilarious.

such a strange place for a club, isn't it?

it's actually my boyfriend who lives here, on 41st street near skillman ave. i do like that the grind sign is still up.

i do remember once waiting ages for a square of pizza that my bf ordered. but still miss it.

are there any other good places in sunnyside cafe-wise, or are aubergine and cafe marlene it?

those plus la marjolaine (not technically a cafe but they have wifi...) and starbucks are the only things north of queens boulevard. south there's one cafe on greenpoint, I think it's called 'ave coffeehouse' now, it used to be something else. it seems pretty middle of the road. as far as queens goes that's a lot of options...woodside and jackson heights both only really have one + one starbucks and neither is great.

ave coffehouse was an Esparks. Weird chain...there was like 1 in Elmhurst, then one opened up on the site of an old Hallmark store in woodside near 59th st, and a month later 1 opened up on greenpoint ave, then a month later the first one changed their signed to "Cafescape" and the second to Ave Coffehouse. Looking online, the main one is in Glendale and they have 2 franchises, the one in elmhurst that's still there and one in Great Neck. There was one in Astoria as well. Bit of a mystery.

So after checking out that space instead of taking the 7 back I decided to walk and I've always wanted to take more pictures of the neighborhoods and I had my camera to take pix of the space so I figured I might as well and took all these shots

http://gallery.me.com/danselzer#100060

excuse the 1 tilt shit photo. I had forgotten my camera had that setting so I gave it a shot. I think it would be more effective with a different angle. Anyway, some nice overcast views of sunnyside, sunnyside looking over to LIC. The Phipps Garden Apartments which I've always obsessed about because it's deco sign and it has that Jackson Heights interior garden thing going on. Cool looking building but not all very nice. I have a friend who lives in there, found a 1 bedroom sublet for 900 dollars just a few years ago. Says it's one of those building that they won't bother fixing up nice because it's not a co-op and it's filled with rent-subsidized old people or something.

Anyway, across the street from that is Donato's, which is not very good and one day I hope to buy it and turn it into a Lucali's style quality pizza place then there will finally be good pizza in this part of queens and the location is so charming people will come from all over for it.

googled it and someone on chowhound says "According to the owner-manager in Woodside, he's independent and bought out Esparks to operate at this location." so presumably something similar happened. maybe they were just overambitious.

I will eat your pizza. that route in your pics is my jogging route, actually. it's the safest place to run around here.

I also like barnett ave...sorta hidden and mysterious

I mostly jog around the industrial parts of woodside...39th and 37th ave, broadway. There's all these printers and temples and small manufacturers. It's really fascinating. That is, the 2 times a year I jog.

yeah I take that route when I jog to astoria. it's interesting how many different languages you'll see on the signs.

it seriously astounds me that sapori d'ischia gets *any* customers with that location.

oh apparently the glendale esparks is right by the trader joe's, I think I've seen it.

Have you been to Sapor D'ischia? We went once for dinner, the food was pretty good. The atmosphere was hilarious. Supposedly they have good deals for lunch. Some fancy pasta on an industrial stretch of queens.

yeah we went twice. their dinner is a little out of our normal budget but it's def good. their personal-but-big lunch pizza is pretty cheap and worlds better than the rest of the pizza options.

actually had the vegetarian pizza at la flor recently and it was sorta california-style 'I'm basically eating a salad' but it was pretty decent!

Always wondered about their Pizzas. I can't get enough of their chicken quesadilla. It's not like a normal quesadilla, it's got really thick masa tortilas, more like a bread then just tortilla. It's pretty much the only thing I ever get there. I went for dinner once and had this short rib with mashed potato and spicy mexican cole slaw or something and it was pretty delicious. They have amazing hot chocolate and the chocolate brioche is great but I always avoid getting it.

I don't know why I capitalized "Pizza". I should probably go to bed.

haha yeah me too, I'm staying up for no real reason

the last two times we went for dinner there was this same local dude singing cheeseball covers, sorta annoying actually. also we've always had problems with the service speed, though that's true for a lot of places around here.

75$ of the time we're there for breakfast and I get the huevos a la mexicana and/or pastries. their tortillas *are* really good, any idea if they use nixtamal's?

errr 75%
gnite!

yeah the one time we went for dinner they had the singer. Really strange move. I don't think they use nixtamals. Certainly we were going there before nixtamal opened and my girlfriend has never mentioned a difference. The quesadillas don't use tortillas at all really, more like a masa pancake. So good. Chicken or shrimp inside (pork and veggies are the other options but not as good) with cheese and mashed potato inside and more cheese on top, and tons of the red and green salsas. Service used to be great because it was always just one of these two women, but as they've gotten busier they always seem to have some new person who's not on top of things. Still it's a gem for the neighborhood.

I've been trying to do some research on the 'fedders renaissance', I hadn't really thought about it beyond 'haha...queens sure is ugly' until now.

apparently 'fedders building' was coined by a bay ridge activist some years back. it seems like it's worth taking seriously beyond like 'lol cheap buildings' - I mean it's the result of a lot of individual decisions and market incentives. depends on how you define it, but I'd imagine that it's quite possible that at this point there is more fedders housing stock in NYC than historic brownstone so it's not an insignificant part of 'new york city'.

thoughts:

- how has fedders cornered the low-end AC market so well? (+ freidrich) like okay sure, they're the cheapest but how'd that happen? idk a lot about AC, I think it should be illegal btw.

- why does light pink brick seem more popular in queens than brooklyn? it's not absent in brooklyn, but brooklyn-style fedders seem to be a tad more colorful.

- would there be a way to incentivize 'good design'? the typical solution, density bonuses...prob not gonna appeal to queens crapper / bay ridge types - the people most invested in the issue. and beyond that - I mean, what is good design? facades in sunnyside and jackson heights don't look *that* different from nycha buildings or fedders when it comes down to it - nicer brick, uniform streetscapes, subtle but not super complex architectural flourishes. how much more does it really cost for a developer to include some simple brick flourishes?

- a 'nice' building doesn't make a nice neighborhood - sorta a prisoner's dilemma thing for developers, why spend time on design if nobody else will and the hood is pretty ugly anyway? this makes sense for the majority of queens and certain parts of brooklyn - but there are still fedders in pretty parts of brooklyn - seems like they're throwing away money?

- how much of this is cultural? new flushing buildings are generally asian developers and a majority of people living in the fedderiest parts of the boroughs are 1st/2nd gen.

- how much of this is just snobbery? is there someone out there that thinks "wow, that's a great new building, lots of parking and a balcony"? look at that shiny stainless steel!

- is the demand for housing in the nyc area is so strong that people will live in literally anything? if it's that simple, this phenomenon isn't so different from 'why are all new williamsburg developments (even the non-fedders) so ugly?' and if that's the case it's pretty much guaranteed that all development outside of manhattan is going to ugly for decades to come.

I um, didn't say so before but I def think of that style of building that posted, with the ugly protruding balcony and the metal awning, as "immigrant housing." Probably because that kind of thing in Jersey City is all Filipino and in Greenpoint it's Polish and I'm sure in other places it's Russian or Puerto Rican or whatever. But yeah. I don't know how to address that any more deeply.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/queens/2011/03/03/2011-03-03_rezoning_push_would_add_flavor_curb_development.html

queens blvd infill is good but again this goes back to earlier discussion about making queens blvd livable first. I find the skyscrapers+highway aesthetic that the blvd takes outside of sunnyside sorta weird.

sidewalk cafes on skillman is great, queens blvd pointless, I wouldn't go. until it looks like this again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEPwYcM1qTs

http://gothamist.com/2011/03/06/5_pointz_may_be_eliminated_in_owner.php

sad but prob practical? there are other gigantic buildings to paint that aren't in huge transit hubs

Too bad, it's a real landmark and a great site to see when the 7 train comes above ground and loops around. I don't know what they're doing throughout LIC. Is there need for more apartments? I thought they couldn't fill some of those buildings? QB Plaza is insane. Still empty buildings, empty storefronts, strip clubs but also expensive properties and brand new developments. Tons of construction and "new traffic patterns" throughout the plaza itself, new dividers made up of jagged boulders. I don't know how long it will last as an arts hub, despite PS1. The spaces I've seen are often overpriced and people are getting priced out and moving to Bushwick (or Sunset Park).

nyc big picture there's absolutely need for more housing - there's a steady population increase projected and people gotta move somewhere. these parts of queens have the proximity / subway lines / space.

there's plenty of overpriced 'luxury' buildings in LIC and maybe the market won't support those kinda places forever but in the meantime more dense housing is more dense housing. is LIC still an arts hub? I don't think it really needs to be - I mostly look at it as a secondary business district + transit hub.

the new jagged boulders are pretty wtf landscaping, I agree. the eventual path along qbp is gonna be pretty and green though.

sunnyside railyards also needs to be built over, someone's gonna make billions when that finally happens. what a crazy use of land.

So my friend who lives in Sunnyside noticed the BID office and goes to talk to them and see what's up. Says something like "I'm interested in maybe a certain kind of restaurant" and guy says "we don't need restaurants, restaurants fail. We need the GAP." He then asks if guy lives in Sunnyside and he says "no".

So that pretty much sums up Queens Blvd for you. No cheap rents, no interesting development. People on the sunnyside blog may post about how short-sighted this is and how people aren't going to be attracted to the neighborhood and move here but I guess that's not really the case. I imagine Sunnyside will get slightly misguided hype and maybe even the types of people who live in the LIC towers may read about this "liveable" cheaper neighborhood and they'll move in and they'll be happy when Banana Republic opens.

Unless some people hurry up and do something interesting. I mean that wouldn't change things, but it would be nice for those of us who live here.

LIC meanwhile, my god. Stopped there yesterday to go to the supermarket that's in one of the towers. The entire waterfront is a college campus of wealthy people who've likely never been further east than Vernon. I picked up some LIC newspaper magazine that had an editorial from one of the realtors behind a few of the developments. He wrote:

It is our responsibility as local residents to patron these restaurants, coffee shops and clothing stores because, if we don't, who will? I have spoken to many friends throughout LIC about the quaintness of the area, that we don't have a Starbucks or a Banana Republic and I agree about keeping the charm that we have right now alive, but with that means much less random streetwalkers and window shoppers that would normally pop into Testaccio for a bowl of pasta and a glass of wine on a Saturday afternoon in February. So this is why I want to see each and every one of you out in the neighborhood more often. Is that too much to ask for? Celebrate you birthday at Masso! That that blind date of yours to El Ay Si! Buy your wife a dress from Etheral. C'mon LICers, we need your help.

Part of the context is he's talking about the weather, but the big picture is the realization that he's promoting a charming/quaint neighborhood but the people buying his apartments aren't utilizing the neighborhood.

that dude who runs the BID is from jersey and got it cause his dad knew the guy who owns the white castle. (I know this from the sunnyside blog.)

Go Queens.

I think you're right and it's inevitable that those LIC folk are gonna head over, but from the longer-term perspective I think that it has more to do w/ the good transportation and proximity to manhattan.

LIC isn't really a neighborhood, it's like one *street* (vernon) and some other streets, but really one *street* ya know? and it doesn't matter how many nice restaurants you have on one street if it's still only got one street w/ a real urban vibe. that's why I'm sorta for the 5 pointz thing.

jackson ave seems like it's on its way but still is more of a car street than a foot-traffic street. that transition is essential to LIC turning into a real neighborhood.

I have my eyes on two places. Just to the right of Dutch Kills is a building that says "Jules Printing, since 1933, for all your stationery needs" or something. It's occupied but filled from floor to ceiling with paper junk. Doesn't look like they do any printing there. On the other side of Dutch Kills is a garage/warehouse for rent by owner. I haven't called. I'm sure it's out of my range.

Around the corner is The Sculpture Center. That part of LIC is in spitting distance of PS1 and Sage, but is a bit rough and car-oriented for Baby Gap. I'd say it would be great if more arts oriented places opened up along there, but do we need another Space Womb. Anyway, the corner of the street that houses the Sculpture Center has some super fancy condo. Around back there's more empty spaces and raw industrial stuff, then you hit Arris Lofts.

I think it's over. Even the arts buildings I've looked at...not to generalize too much, but they tend to be older artists, hobbyists. Some established craftspeople and perhaps good artists, but a lot of mediocre stuff. I think it's all about Bushwick now, as far as "the youth" is concerned. 5 pointz was one of the only affordable buildings when it came to art space rentals, but they had to empty that after the accident I think?

what are you gonna be using the space for?

I've been looking at spaces for a few months now to set up primarily as a printshop. I have some pipe dreams of having a storefront one day and being able to exhibit and sell cheap prints in a gallery-style space up front. And/or a design bookstore. But initially a place to do freelance design/print production as well as letterpress and silkscreen and maybe some other types of printing. I've seen spaces in LIC, Sunnyside, Woodside, Greenpoint and Bushwick and nothings really been right. I'm also looking for people to share the space with, preferably people with interest in the aforementioned activities, if you know anybody.

nope I know like zero art people.

I am in the far-far-far future perhaps interested in setting up a small business somewhere around here though so I try to keep an eye on commercial rents just out of curiousity.

Dan, I would patronize your printshop. Have you seen this place north of Astoria Boulevard called Sunnyside Printing (even though it's in Astoria?). It looks like it's fallen into disuse.

No, I haven't. There's lots of big commercial printers around my house in woodside. It's a big industry for chinese immigrants now.

It's all very depressing. First of all, most of the printing that you get in america, books, graphic novels, art stuff, is printing in China and Singapore. And I recently noticed a printshop in Greenpoint owned by immigrants who ordered their paper from Hong Kong. Even when printing in NY, it's cheaper for them to order a palette of paper to be shipped over from Hong Kong then it is to find and buy from an american vendor.

The printing industry used to be located around Varick st manhattan, but when rents went up almost all of them fled to NJ, the Queens/Long Island border and Long Island City. There's a few on the northside of Queens Plaza, a few on the southside but I think the big ones are actually across the train tracks over in sunnyside, near where the temp MomaQNS was.

There's also stuff down on Borden ave near Fresh Direct. There's a small offset shop where they print Showpaper there.

Asian paper is sometimes of really really questionable environmental standards. "Stock made from liquid rainforest" isn't really a selling point if the cust cares about anything EXCEPT price -- although IKPP woodfree is a lovely, lovely paper and comes in a 140gsm that is very nice and substantial feeling, one just can't feel good about using it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/03/16/2011-03-16_staying_in_print_astoria_store_safe_after_news_rallies_readers.html

Interesting. When I first started looking at studios spaces there was constantly an ad from a "publishing company" in Long Island City, somewhere north of Queens Plaza, that was looking to share their space. Wonder if it was them.

I'd really love to be in Queens but it's looking more and more like Greenpoint or Bushwick money-wise.

yeah I mean w/ the kind of stuff you're gonna sell I'm not sure I would argue with that decision

I feel like food is the only safe bet around here

I'm not selling anything. That part was the pipe-dream. There's no storefronts in my budget. Hell, half the spaces I'm looking at don't have windows.

so warehouse space is really cheaper in greenpoint/bushwick? that does kinda surprise me.

It's mostly a question of how it's broken down. Most large industrial buildings stay that way. It's only the developers who see a value in creating space for artists and small businesses that take these huge buildings and chop them up into small spaces. A lot of those huge buildings around Sunnyside/LIC...warehouses in Woodside, Borden Ave etc, spaces start at 2,000 square feet. That's pretty huge. A good value, but out of my price range! When you get a bunch of people, the options increase. See Flux Factory.

Problem is once those developers start chopping up the spaces, some of them don't know where to stop!

ah that makes a lot of sense

There's a WSJ article on restaurants on 31st Avenue, Astoria.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703899704576204751138215070.html

I don't think any of these are worth going out of your way for especially; did you try the Mexican place yet Dan?

Phagwah Parade is this Sunday in Richmond Hill.

Going to Pachanga Patterson for my birthday tomorrow night.

Sweet afton is okay. Had some good drinks iirc

I went once. It was super crowded. I had a cocktail that was just ok, and fried pickles that were great.

Sweet Afton is super crowded on the weeekends. It's okay on weeknights, but there's still something kind of off about it. The pickle martini and the fried prickles and anything they do involving pickles works though.

Of that group, Il Bambino is the most low-key place, but I only go there because I live around the corner probably.

wanted to go to the parade but gotta work :/

So...Panchagna Patterson...

Pretty good. Definitely good for the neighborhood and good for queens, but I wouldn't say it's a destination restaurant. They bill it as the family dinners mexican cooks make at then end of a shift or whatever, which sounds exciting, but it seemed to be just slightly fusiony good to great mexican food, not a huge stretch. The food was good, but in the end, I don't think it was better then say, Nixtamal, where they get their tortillas, so you have to ask is it worth it? More expensive, and the place was packed...it was comfortable in the back but up front looked like a nightmare. I had a pretty exciting cocktail with some chocolate infused tequila or something.

we just came back from bliss, which we had never been to before and hadn't planned on going to (before we remembered that quaint is closed on tuesdays) anddddd will not return to

chocolate infused tequila sounds really good, how much are their cocktails?

Thanks for the report on Panchagna. I had a feeling it might be a little . . . "precious"?

My coworkers who live in the neighborhood and are Guyanese and went to Phagwah had a great time. They said there were a lot of "white people" (their words) there too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/dining/23phagwah.html

I hate '# of white people as judge of authenticity/goodness'

http://gothamist.com/2011/03/23/queensboro_bridge_could_be_koch_bri.php

Our man Jimmy Van Bramer is fighting it

he seems like a decent guy actually

Totally. I've barely ever noticed who my council member has been while living in NY, but this guy is fighting the good fight and getting out there for sure.

Biting my tongue r.e. JVB.

So we should guess why you don't approve?

I want to hear queens library gossip!

also can you hack the queens library computers and get rid of my $9 of fees

His politics are in the right place.

x-post: I could do that, but as long as it's under $15 you can still check out stuff, so you can just carry that balance.

hmmm that is good to know. I was worried about the fines getting bigger if I didn't pay it off quickly. I dunno how it even got to $9, I was just a few days late w/ 2 DVDs...

DVDs are $3 everyday they are late, is why. Fines don't accrue after you've turned something in--only when its still checked out.

damn I had figured it'd be closer to book late fees.

Ed Koch bridge official

http://gothamist.com/2011/03/24/census_says_nyc_population_barely_b.php

I would guess this has something to do w/ the fact that there's a decent amount of not-entirely-legal immigration in queens? I haven't read anything else or looked at the data but according to that graph the core astoria area lost more people than any other hood in nyc over the last 10 years.

including the other sections of astoria would suggest min 15,000-20,000 people left according to that graph??? could that really have happened unnoticed?

annual boarding stats at the astoria-ditmars station

2000: 4,534,284
2001: 4,684,867
2002: 4,774,750
2003: 4,662,751
2004: 4,706,455
2005: 4,794,029
2006: 4,941,924

2009: 5,033,498

Bloomie's not happy about the census results.

In other news, "cult coffee" comes to Astoria:

http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2011/03/queens_kickshaw.html

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/27/new.york.census.challenge/

officially challenging it

a lot of results in big cities outside of nyc are also borderline-absurd

dan (et al) have you been to the ganesh temple canteen? it's near southern spice in that part of flushing.

I had friends in town and one of them wanted to go (partly cause bourdain visited in his outer boroughs episode)

it's good, cheap and very home-style.

we took a wrong turn on the walk there and were in this residential/industrial/warehouse-y area (everything south of roosevelt and east of main street.) I'd never been in before - converted garages w/ asian small businesses selling nothing but fedders-esque housing materials. (lots of places selling *nothing* but chrome porch stuff etc.) it's a bizarre little world.

er west of main street*

oh also 'salt and fat' opened up about 30 seconds from me and every time I walk by it's very busy. also very...brooklyn.

I try to keep lolkosher so I probably shouldn't have even stepped foot in a place that seems so dedicated to the bacon fad. gf does not keep lolkosher, also wasn't impressed w/ the bacon popcorn and small portions.

Haven't been to any of those temples. There's one or two right here that aren't as well known that apparently serve food similarly.

Funny/typical white person in queens story. Went to Mustang Thakali Kitchen in JH a few months back and had an amazing meal, including this really spicy beef jerky dish I kept thinking about. Went back recently and ordered the same thing and it was great, but something was missing. It was definitely less spicy. I'm not a spice-hound, actually pretty wimpy, but certain dishes really ask for it and it becomes a big part of the pleasure. We also got the usual veggie momos and the 3 condiments they bring which are awesome, but one of them was missing and replaced with some kind of ketchup.

When the bill came, under my dish it actually had typed up "no spicy" so I called someone over to ask about that. She said, in the nicest way possible "sometimes when people...from other areas...come, they don't want the spice". I was nice but gave her a bit of a hard time about it.

Went to Sigiri in the the east village the other day, the Sri Lankan place, at least they specifically told me it was going to be spicy and asked how I wanted it!

haha

my indian-from-indian friend lost a spice duel to sripraphai the other day

from-india

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/05/02/queens-commuters-growing-impatient-over-court-sq-transfer/

so the station is done and now it's just legal issues? annoying

(had to do the outside transfer a handful of times this week)

Have you heard El Shater got priced out of Sunnyside? And the Bliss guide sold "basmati table" to a local owner of multiple indian restaurants who offers "indian food for the american palette"

Go Sunnyside!

actually update was el shater dude's brother is gonna take over and redo it, sounds sorta promising actually.

also bliss and basmati table weren't good, so...

still commercial rent prices seem like they're going crazy high

went to cannelle for the first time in a while this sunday and it was as if it was magnolia bakery or something, line was just crazy.

Exciting news in Woodside! The empty space on the corner of Roosevelt Ave and 61st st under the 7 and LIRR train is set to become a Nathans!

And a few blocks away, in what used to be the dusty old "Woodside Delicatessen" we're getting a Crown Fried Chicken and Lite Ice Cream place.

Who needs M. Wells?

whatever happened to that pub The Porter House formerly The Curragower? it was right at the subway entrance on Roosevelt

Dan - which side? the corner next to the elevator or the spot that was an h&r block?

also a new hamburger spot is opening up across from the meat market on woodside ave. woodside is getting its share of 'American food' eh?

The h&r block is what's becoming the Nathan's. As well as Pudgie's Chicken, whatever that is.

The hamburger spot opening up across from Otomanelli's Meat Market is going to be Ottomanelli's Hamburger Restaurant, which may actually be good.

I don't know about any pubs called the Porter House or Curragower in the 5 or so years I've lived there.

that's a good spot for it

it'd be nice if something opened up in the elevator spot too tho

we went to claret for the first time last night and had to wait foreverrr to get served by the snooty gay jamaican (?) server wearing huge sunglasses.

not going back. why are all the brooklyn-esque places in queens so bad?

I think we need some kind of Queens dinner FAP. Also, NYT had a feature about LIC/Astoria eats yesterday.

I walked past a new Manhattan branch of Jackson Diner? in the EV?

apparently the Jackson Diner is the same owners? didn't know about that either.

I've actually never been to a FAP but I'd be up

Sripraphai?

Tortilleria Nixtamal -> Lemon Ice King of Corona / Timmy's is fun if people were willing to do deep(er) Queens.

Guys, I'm going to be working in Corona so I can come to the food faps and also make it to mets games after work.

Timmy's is gone. (sad face)

There have been downhill complaints about nixtamil since they've opened a satelite in manhattan supposedly.

I always wonder how those ice cream places survive the winter. someone on yelp says that he plans on re-opening elsewhere in queens (hope it's closer to a subway...)

where is the nix manhattan? I feel like their food would be hard to fuck up

okay I checked, it's like directly next to the Brooklyn bridge. weird spot.

any other fap ideas?

man Tortas Neza has changed everything for me in Woodside. their meat / chiles are for real

i went there for a second time today. First time was just ok, this time was much better. Just tacos but good meat, and lots of it. Nice lady making it. I haven't had their tortas yet. Hope it sticks around, that spot has been cursed.

I haven't been but I'm tempted now

you live in woodside, HPS?

I only ate at Timmy's once, but I wasn't that impressed. Maybe I just don't like custard that much. I want to eat at Leo's Latticini, but it's always closed when I go there.

Oh, and this summer I will eat at Rockaway Taco if it kills me.

I'm into Nixtamal or Tortas Neza or . . . ? Then we could go to Lemon Ice King and then to the park to watch the bocce ball players (this is what I plan to be doing all summer anyway).

yeah custard was too heavy for my gf too, I don't think it's for everyone

I found this group v. relevant to my interests...I think I'm doing this sunday:

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/event.php?eid=212187592135411

Fun! I sometimes want to do stuff like that, but then I think I would have more fun if I just did it by myself?

Definitely want to walk the periphery of Manhattan at some point.

in one go? that's 32 miles... I think it would be fun by bike, tho there are some parts that wouldn't be. I've considered doing the length of broadway as a more manageable day-walk but it's not a super interesting route.

Yea, these "Shorewalkers" people do it once a year, or so? Biking would be good too.

I think I've done all of B'way by bus.

you live in woodside, HPS?

yyy, and happy about it. Skillman Ave the past month has generally been gorgeous

cool, I had thought it was just me and dan in this immediate area (I lived a block from the 61st station until recently, now live near 40th lowery)

and yeah...me and the girl end up walking up and down skillman about once a day. one of the most pleasant streets in the 5 boroughs imo. sometimes I wonder if more streets in the area have that potential.

Skillman is super nice. I was supposed to transfer to Sunnyside earlier this year, but it fell through:(

Have y'all been to Sil Gaek? That place is insane.

Sik Gaek is fun. The food isn't super amazing, it's more of a drunk food late night scene. I had this fried dumpling thing that was great, if trashy, but we also got this korean "sushi" which was cellophane noodles in seaweed deep fried and was totally disgusting! Just a few weeks before we had been to some 2nd floor place on 32nd st that was the same scene...Soju mixed with watermelon served in hollowed out watermellons, weird fried cheese and fish dishes, so it wasn't totally surprising. We were surprised by the egg they fried as soon as we sat down. They lit up the sterno on the table and dropped an egg in a pan then walked away. We stared at it asking each other "are we supposed to flip this?" Eventually they came back around, flipped it and I asked what do do with it and they said it was an appetizer and we just put some hot sauce on it. The complimentary spicey rice cakes were good. But it's definitely more of an atmosphere experience/drinking experience then someplace to get great food...unless you're really into the live octopus thing, which we definitely aren't.

We took a walk down skilman and back on QB today and went into Superior Market on QB around 40th st for th first time. Have you all been there? It may be the best little grocery store I've ever been to. I think they may be russian jews? They had a variety of easter european and other gourmet type imports, like Massis which is closer, but they have more interesting stuff and more variety. And the guys there seem really weird. Kinda charming. But also weird. And they have an amazing beer selection.

yes I live a block from there. 'beer world' is great, tho not as cheap as I'd want it to be. our favorite discovery there was that we can buy biscoff spread there (aka speckaloos, Belgian spread that's like, if peanut butter were made out of cookies). the guys are weird and charming tho. (and always there)

one too many 'there's...it's late

but yeah we do enjoy wandering around that place looking at the funky imports

We should food fap at Sil Gaek and eat lots of semi-live octopi.

Euro Market on 31st St. near 30th Ave. has a big beer selection well.

eh I'll pass on that one

I failed on going on that epic walk cause I was out too late yesterday :(

anyone know a decent place to buy a kite? (a two-handed kite.) would be willing to go to manhattan I guess but was hoping to find one in western queens.

so apparently there isn't a single kite store left in nyc

so much for being the greatest city in the world

court square transfer opens tomorrow!

hooray!

transfer btwn what and what?

As much as people love 5 pointz, this area really could support a lot more residents now w/ a pretty nifty station.

xp G and 7

useful for brooklyn people going to mets games!

oh and 7 w/ E and M too, that's less important tho

I like the Korean cellophane noodles fried in seaweed (haven't had it at the place above though).

I also like kimbap/gimbap ("Korean sushi").

Aren't kites sold in toy stores?

I checked the big toys r us on northern blvd and various small ones in queens and bk. they only had dinky kid kites. I think I just have to buy online.

oh yeah, that G>7 Court Sq transfer's not new, I just hadda walk outside for a block for the last two years.

Did you eat at Sage along the way?

no, I do not eat en route to the ballgame

Now the transfer is underground and you don't need to reswipe. For the 7 months that I worked part time in brooklyn, taking the G home from gowanus, walking up the stairs, crossing jackson, then walking up to the 7, often in shitty weather, was a real pain in the ass. It recently had gotten to be more of a pain as they (smartly) put up those barriers on the island so you couldn't cross the street unless you were at one of the lights.

xp

yeah I mean this really does just cut time out of the obnoxious transfer. not having to walk the opposite direction -> wait for the street light -> climb stairs -> swipe in again is nice. maybe saves 5 mins, which adds up for people doing the commute. it's mostly psychological.

always wondered why they haven't tried something like this for queens plaza and qb plaza. they're a little further apart, but it'd be super useful.

the barriers are nice looking and the color green is always good in queens but there's generally more foot traffic on the street than car traffic, so I'm not sure if it made sense

ha I guess that last part potentially won't be true anymore thanks to the transfer. anyway, as I said before this is one of the most convenient transit spots in the borough so hopefully the area turns into something bigger.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/residents-happy-about-decision-to-scrap-queens-plaza-landscaping-design/

yeah I really didn't understand this design concept

I mean maybe it looked neat on someone's computer?

been wondering about that for weeks. Whole area is a mess, but they changed the traffic there so now getting on the bridge while coming down from Northern Blvd doesn't require a massive merge, which is a huge improvement.

They totally need to do this for QB Plaza & Queens Plaza. Or at least put up helpful guiding signs.

Has anyone been to Claret in Sunnyside? Is it an ok place?

I've been drinking with coworkers at Terraza in Jackson Heights lately. Kind of an interesting bar.

omg we had such bad service there that we left the only $0 tip I can remember leaving in the last 5 years.

the waiter was wearing sunglasses, had an attitude and spent 30 mins chatting with other people before he came to our table.

what they really should do w/ QB and queens plaza is connect them. I've never read a good reason why it couldn't happen and it'd be super useful.

OMG. Looks like it's going to be an interesting night. Is there a better place to go in S'side?

They should totally connect them, and just rename the whole thing Queensboro Junction or something.

there's nothing w/ the same vibe but getting drunk on de mole sangria is more fun / better food for your money.

get the mac n cheese, even tho we hate the place now, that was delicious.

Oh, that sounds like a lot more fun. Thanks for the suggestion!

Stopped in Terraza the other day after not having been in a long time. They've really opened up such space as they have and made the best use of it. And they have some great Latin Jazz players appearing there these days.

Donovan's Pub

Donovan’s, the famous Irish pub and restaurant that has occupied the corner of Roosevelt Avenue and 58th Street since 1966, was closed by the New York City Health Department yesterday.

The owner(s) could not be reached for comment. Donovan’s racked up a score of 66 violation points, when 27 or below is considered to be the passing grade.

!!!

we went to fort totten today out of boredom / mostly just the result of getting on random buses. it's very pretty...would be a great place to play sports if it weren't so out of the way.

Yeah I saw that about donovans. Too bad. I posted on the thread.

http://www.streetfilms.org/queens-plaza-protected-cycletrack-is-open-for-business/

not bad

Pretty much every time I go into Terraza they are playing that bagpipe bedizened Alpha Blondy cover of "Wish You Were Here" on the big TV.

Usually followed by Calexico cover of John Cale's "The Ballad of Cable Hogue."

been meaning to go

has anyone tried that newish diner under the 61st st station? curious if it's better than stop inn.

also amazed how quickly that nathan's popped up.

Current favorite place for ceviche? I haven't had in ages!

Quickly? They were working on that for ages! More interested in trying "pudgie's" chicken. Less interested in the Crown Fried Chicken with dollar slices and burgers and halal chicken that opened up in the old Woodside Delicatessen space.

I guess I just didn't notice? we don't go to woodside as much as we should. we noticed that fried chicken place too. also a Chinese Indian place, I think it was, near food dynasty?

There's a chinese indian place opening around the corner from roosevelt. Excited for the delivery option. Also a chinese indian "fusion" place opening in sunnyside, as posted on the Sunnyside Post.

The only place we eat in Queens now is Chao Thai, which is just destroying Srip and all other contenders.

where is that? there's also a Thai noodle place that just opened up on q blvd

http://sunnysidepost.com/2011/07/17/indianchinese-restaurant-to-open/

So after 5+ years in the area, we finally went to Natural Tofu. I don't know why we waited so long, it was pretty great. I had the Tofu with kimchee and beef and it was great. GF had the "vegetarian" and it was filled with american broccoli and cauliflower and had little taste. I told her next time she should just get the kimchee one and ask them to hold the beef.

I went to Chao Thai with a group of friends last week - all the flavors were excellent but the meat itself seemed fairly mediocre as compared to, say, Ayada. However, we went specifically to get a bunch of dishes made as spicy as possible, and the shaved mango salad with softshell crab almost killed everyone. Def would go back.

Also, this is a block away from Chao Thai and I need to get to it v v soon:
http://theeatenpath.com/2011/07/21/uncle-zhou-restaurant-hand-pulled-noodles-henan-cuisine-83-29-broadway-elmhurst-queens-ny/

Yeah, I've never been there. It used to be up the block near the indonesian restaurants but now it's around the corner in the spot that used to be Oz.

Chao's heat has seriously killed me, but I've liked the meat. Once I saw everyone getting some grilled pork on a stick thing and ordered it and it was mindblowing. Recently went with friends and ordered the pork sate and it wasn't the same thing and wasn't super great. It's the regular grilled pork on a stick app that kills.
GF is vegetarian so we get the mock duck basil which is super spicy with green beans. I also love the sour sausage fried rice.

We just had a few really bad experiences at Srip, reminding us never to go on weekends. Really watered down flavors. Not just a question of spice.

We haven't been blown away by Ayada and generally prefer Srip or Chao. Been meaning to try Ploy Thai, which I'd read was good but New York or someone just did a review that mentioned a dish that sounds amazing.

our bad exps with srip are generally regarding the amount of time we have to wait for our food to come

we were there last night and it was fine, tho

why don't these places deliver????

I like the atmosphere at Chao Thai, but the food's a little spicy for me.

I ate with two vegetarians at Happy Buddha in Flushing the other day ... their pretend meat was good.

We should all go out for drinks at Terraza sometime.

You were not there last night. THEY'RE CLOSED ON WEDNESDAY'S!

Srip does great takeout though. I think they generally assume you're a pro so they don't dumb it down too much. And they pack it wonderfully, keeping various elements separate so you can combine them when you get home.

I was trying to remember if it was yesterday or the day before but I couldn't remember what I had for dinner yesterday so I figured it must have been yesterday.

gf always refused to do srip takeout. I like eating at home *much much* more than she does. if it were up to me I'd pretty much never eat at a restaurant.

also I am good for drinks at terr whenever

well not this weekend but most of the time

I thought the Da Mole suggestion above was for margaritas, so I went last night and was upset that they weren't on the menu . . . but I see it was for sangria after all . . . so I guess I can't be mad. I wasn't too impressed with Da Mole anyway. I looked at two apartments in Sunnyside yesterday . . . but I'm not sure I'm ready to leave Astoria. Is Queens Boulevard a real demarcation line, like, it is significantly different to live in the north or the south part of Sunnyside? Most of the places I'm seeing are just south of QB, but I guess north has more cachet?

when we were looking for a place I was hoping we'd end up north, but I'm actually very glad we're south. there's just more stuff, most importantly, grocery stores...

I think if you live between 43rd ave and 47th ave crossing queens blvd for something isn't a big deal, but if you're further down you'd prob stick to your side.

but w/r/t to your question north is whiter, calmer, more teens and families.

south is very hispanic in some areas, esp around greenpoint + more old irish people.

De Mole isn't as special as it once was. It was never mind-blowing, just solid, tasty, cheap mexican food in a friendly place. I think when they expanded they dropped off a bit. It's still good for delivery and the occasional visit and certain dishes are better than others, though they're not always consistent. But not a destination restaurant. The tinga is really good, shrimp cocktail, enchiladas, mole burrito.

North and South are very different but it's the same basic neighborhood. South is cheaper. North is beautiful and charming but overrated restaurant-wise. It's a real shame as Skillman could be the hidden gem of the city of the restaurants were actually any good. Quaint is good.

The QB restaurants I stand by are Mangal Kabab and Natural Tofu. Not far from De Mole is another mexican place called Real Sante Fe, started as a steakhouse trying to sell margaritas to sorority girls (who have Ariba Ariba on QB anyway) but now seems to be more about tacos? I had great Al Pastor from them and they were cooking pigs ear tacos in the window, so they're the real deal and I've been meaning to revisit.

Woodside is cheaper still!

we've only had real santa fe delivery. it was okay. despite the atmosphere, our #2 choice for mexican in the neighborhood is arriba arriba. (chips is horrid.)

have you been to salt&fat yet dan? I keep kosher so that place is basically useless to me, but apparently the yelp-types like it.

always packed too

It's not (my) girlfriend-friendly food-wise

ah yeah I remember you said she's veg

And seafood but still. Place is very bacon happy.

to say the least

pretty sure the water is bacon flavored

I feel like the success of the place is sorta a sign of things to come tho. I walk by it very frequently and it's pretty clearly doing great business.

I split with a broker at that corner and peered into Salt and Fat. It looked interesting.

Looks like I'm moving to Sunnyside!

woohoo where at?

42nd St., south of QB. Is that an ok place to live? It feels so disconcerting to be leaving Astoria, thankfully I am only going about a mile away.

a block from me is a good place to live

really tho, I've found it to be really great

Close to Wendy's. But also close to that weird russian jewish supermarket with the best beer selection I've ever seen.

also 3 seconds from (the newly renovated) associated supermarket, which is the best supermarket I've seen in western queens

plus the 24/7 cvs

Cool, a good supermarket is high on my list of essentials. And proximity to iatee, of course:)

when do you move? we should get coffee.

http://gothamist.com/2011/08/10/food_truck_sanctuary_opens_in_long.php

on the one hand cool, food, on the other hand doesn't this sorta hamper local biz development? that part of LIC is kinda 9-5 I guess.

For sure on the coffee. If all goes well, Sept. 1.

Oh no! Dumpster pools!

Btw, is the 7 fucked every weekend?

it happens in phases, but generally it's not as bad as it's been the last few weekends. ime the astoria service changes are actually worse because when you have to make a reverse-transfer trip (which isn't super frequent on the 7, though there have been periods in the past where it was worse) you're doing it on a line that's less frequent (x2).

when the 7 doesn't go to times square, it's generally not the end of the world, but it's always going to be an unpleasant experience at QBP.

so on my way home from the Mets game, should I eat at M Wells, as it's closing soon?

they're eventually reopening in another spot in lic + apparently the lines are even worse than normal cause they're closing (/moving). so only if you've got patience, I guess.

it's probably too late but they're having closing dinners at 200/dinner so I'd think it's probably not a good idea!

maybe I should get the bkfast sandwich on the way out, then

$200? ffs

rip queens

Good riddance, I hate that place. M. Wells, not Queens.

C'mon. Hottest/most hyped restaurant in the city suddenly shuts down, requests for reservations go through the roof so they decide to do a few nights of crazy expensive foie-drenched meals. Let them have it! The food was a mixed bag but when it was good it was great and unique.

Didn't go. I don't ...relate... to food this way.

sorry to be all save-an-elitist dining establishment but their food was super affordable for what it was. They just set up a few special dinners in the last week of existence at that location. Let's not get crazy. It was a totally casual place that served adventurous and interesting meals for reasonable prices.

ate at William-hallet on 30th ave last night.they have some pretty good pub sandwiches.

pretty crazy review / article about M. Wells in GQ. critic goes there, gets bad service, some of his friends dining with him keep mouthing off (he admits), then the owner sends an email accusing him of patting his waitress on the ass

http://www.gq.com/food-travel/alan-richman/201109/alan-richman-m-wells-restaurant-scandal-review?currentPage=all

gonna give the restaurant the benefit of the doubt since it's gq

also it's ridiculous how much press these guys are getting considering that they're just moving to a new location

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/when-a-tornado-in-queens-becomes-an-international-incident/?partner=rss&emc=rss

Think The Beasties Boys are doing something to have that fixed

Um, there might be more to fix soon.

it's prob just gonna fly around the park like a bowling ball

Just went out on a little errand while we are in between rain bands, asked the lady at the Walgreens when they were closing and she said "we are open twenty four hours."

that's the spirit, walgreens lady

prob one of the better places to be, all things considered...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/nyregion/5pointz-arts-center-and-its-graffiti-is-on-borrowed-time.html?hp

looks like this is pretty much official?

I had to get to work from Queens this morning, and ALL of the trains were not working properly -- first I waited about 15 minutes for an R (during which time no M came at all), then I tried to transfer to an E only to be unable to get on the first one, which only came after another 10 minutes. Meanwhile, still no M train at all. Then an out-of-service train of some sort passed slowly through. Then an F, which wasn't even supposed to be there, arrived in the station, waited, let off all its passengers, sat some more, and then pulled away. Finally another E came, which proceeded at a snails pace into Manhattan. Is this what it's like every day?

well...those R, F, M trains are the same trains that go to brooklyn so any delay you had to deal w/ was felt by someone else down the line. that said, the queens boulevard line is supposedly near capacity, so any rush hour disruption is going to lead to crowded trains fairly quickly. (same is true w/ the flushing line.)

don't you live on the l? that's definitely worse

I don't know. I take the LIRR! Sometimes it's 3 or 5 minutes late, but usually it's not problem. I always get a seat and it's 10 minutes to Penn Station!

the ideal would be if the commuter rail systems were better integrated into the subway system, as it's done in Paris w/ the RER. in-city LIRR and Metro North trips should be as cheap as a subway ticket. this would pay for itself w/ increased ridership. rich suburbanites would have to deal w/ 'the city' but and trains would be pretty crowded, but it would be a huge boost in mobility, esp to people in LIRR queens.

What time was this, Hurting, 8:45? You got to be on the train earlier than that or you might get into a jam like you did.

Yeah, about then. I had to return a rental car at LaGuardia so I took a cab to the subway, thinking it would be cheaper and faster than taking a cab all the way to work.

But the main problem wasn't so much crowded trains as trains apparently not running.

Yes, the L is often full but it comes every few minutes during rush hour and so far I haven't had a morning where I waited long. They only really fuck you on the weekends with the L.

nah the M, R, F are as frequent in Queens as they are in Brooklyn...cause they're the same trains...

I mean the frequency when combined is alright. you don't generally wait too long at forest hills or jackson heights - if there's gonna be a problem, it's gonna be a capacity one (like the l)

Seven train at a standstill tonight, power off, had to walk from Woodside. Police investigation, sick passenger they told us, now I am hearing worse

hmm I was just on my way home. gonna check the MTA site I guess.

whoa this is gonna be a bitch, I imagine the buses will be crazy. I think I'll go to Penn station and get on a q32 at the start of its route.

Good luck

yeah thanks for the head's up

mta starting saying "Good Service" again at some point.

yeah it was running by the time I was in queens. oh well, better safe than sorry.

uh oh. sorry.

I was getting on the N train in manhattan when we heard an announcement that 7 train was delayed in both directions due to an incident at 108th street. Which doesn't make a lot of sense since there is not 108th st stop.

We took the R to Northern Blvd and 54th st and walked home from there, which is a usual back-up plan.

I like that 54th street station. lotsa historical oddities in it.

wait I'm thinking of 65th st (that was our backup when we lived in woodside)

hate that northern station

never been down in the 65th st station. That's the one by ex-Spicy Mina, now "Woodside Cafe", another Nepali-Tibetan-South Indian-Pakistani-American-Italian place.

I sadly never made it to spicy mina. is woodside cafe any good?

65th station has this:

http://images.nycsubway.org/i1000/img_1015.jpg

which is one of the few sign references to the IND 2nd system that was never built - in the magical world where it had been built, there was going to be a line from queens blv to the rockaways.

there's also a few places where 65th street is referenced as rowan st, which was the pre-number name. but it's not officially part of the station name like some others, so it's just sorta there.

http://www.subwaynut.com/ind/65r/65r16.jpg

anyway just weird things to see if you're ever there.

We went to Spicy Mina twice and to be honest weren't that impressed. Could never tell if it was a "you have to order the right dish on the right night while Mina's in the right mood" kind of place or just pure chowhound hype. Haven't been to Woodside Cafe. For Tibetan we absolutely can't get enough of Phayul in Jackson Heights. And we now go to Chao Thai at least once a week. On the elmhurst tip, finally tried Ploy Thai to switch it up and it was really good. There's also now 2 Sichuan places that people are talking about that I'd like to try. Save us from trekking out to College Point for Little Pepper.

isn't 'woodside cafe' also the name of the irish diner next to sean og?

/ have you tried that new (well, not really that new now) 24/h diner under the 7? better than stop inn? at 41st street we live just outside of casual walking distance to woodside so these days we pretty much only end up there for srip. (by 'woodside' I mean 'roosevelt past the library'.)

It may be called something other than "cafe" but I think that's it. And yes, Woodside Cafe is also the irish diner, which used to be Rainbow or something? It's actually not bad, I've been a few times. Haven't gone to "Metro" yet. I have to admit, Stop Inn's burgers are pretty great for a diner. But seriously, we only eat Chao Thai. We hardly go to Srip, they really let us down the last few times we went.

still waiting for the effing G to 'normally' run after 11pm weeknights when Mets torture goes to extra innings

7 train ran fine tonight

http://www.streetsblog.org/2011/10/06/eyes-on-the-street-new-public-plaza-coming-to-jackson-heights/

rad

And I thought they were just reinforcing that street so that bus fuel wouldn't rot the asphalt.

hopefully there will be some tables?

Probably some tables with people selling the same stuff they sell on 74th Street,

Cafescape, the weird ex-Esparks coffee shop in woodside, is being replaced by Lucid Cafe, a much beloved coffee shop that sells Counter Culture coffee and only has one other location, in Murray Hill. My girlfriend couldn't be more excited.

That block has the entrance to Phayul, our new favorite restaurant.

(in Jackson Heights, not the block in woodside)

cafescape was okay as a place to sit for a few hours, but I really resented the way they'd make you give them your computer to type in the internet password / walk to you the bathroom

food and coffee was not great but that wasn't why I went

http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/reb/2710213156.html

apt. 2 doors down from mine is for sale. 10 blocks from Sripraphai...

even woodside co-ops have maintenance fees? jeez

Don't all co-ops? You have to pay the super, the staff, the hot water etc?

and the non-hot water

meant to word that "even the non-hot water"

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2012/01/12/eleven-weekends-of-no-interborough-7-service/

bleh

this sucks! i think they did this last year or the year before too and i thought after such prolonged maintenance, the 7 train would be capable of running when there is mild rain. silly me!

having to take the e/f in is so much more hellish during rush hour than the 7...not to mention what the transfer at qb plaza will look like for these 11 weeks

That's on the weekend, no?, not during rush hour.

But yeah, I take the E/F in the AM with the madding crowd because it is faster, but the slightly more pleasant 7 on the way home in the PM.

good lord. i need to brush up on my reading comprehension skills.

this is far more palatable.

No worries. I had the same problem listening to a story about services changes on New York One this past weekend.

http://gothamist.com/2012/01/17/fuggedaboutit_brooklyn_nycs_next_ap.php

People complaining about it being there but not Queens Center...Queens Center would make sense, it gets crazy traffic, but there's probably a wealthier demographic shopping on Austin St. It is kind of silly that Brooklyn doesn't have one.

A few years ago when I bought my last Mac Pro dual quad core tower, I drove to the mall in Staten Island to buy it. I walked in and asked for it, the clerk started asking what I needed it for, because she figured I'd probably really want an iMac. I started explaining what I do and soon as they knew I was serious and knew what I was getting she went and got the manager, who came by and shook my hand and said "congratulations, you're the only person to ever buy a Mac Pro here".

Ha.

I bet they won't tell you that on Austin Street.

haha yeah there could totally be like 3 in brooklyn at this point. wburg, downtown, park slope. prob more.

austin st. doesn't seem like it's built for the super wealthy demographic, that's what you think when you think 'forest hills' but it really does seem to be more tailored towards the middle class demographic in that part of queens?

are there apple stores in 'malls' in america? it might be an aesthetic decision more than a retail one.

The one in Staten Island is a mall. And not a particularly fancy mall. And I've seen them in malls in NJ I think.

Austin St. is middle class, but the residential area of Forest Hills Gardens has money. But who knows what thinking goes into this process.

I'd think one on Montague, which is a shitty shopping street obv. but still a key money neighborhood, or Atlantic Ave, maybe Court, Smith or 7th ave, all make sense. Maybe under one of the WB waterfront condos or something.

fulton in 5 years

Used to always bug me when I was in Brooklyn, the mediocrity of Montague Street. One of the few things with any personality was the used bookstore, which eventually moved and shortly thereafter went out of business.

I remember that bookstore. Where did it move (before dying?)

There was a cool used bookstore on 5th ave, near 9th st I think, for a while, maybe, but that's long gone. Glad the one on Court survives. That guy must own the building. Him and his dog.

Wish we could talk about great used bookstores in Queens!

The other side of Atlantic, not sure exactly where, never went. I think there is a facebook page. Yeah, Book Court guy owns the building- is it two buildings? - and was able to expand and keep his overhead down I guess. Don't even want to think about bookstores in Queens used or otherwise, recently went in that really junky one in Astoria and remember every time there was some vacant commercial property on 37th Avenue somebody would say "Wouldn't it be nice if it was a bookstore?" and it usually ended up being another beauty parlor.

that junky one going out of business fwiw

that junky one going out of business fwiw

Yeah, I saw that. fwiw I went through the whole basement of that place and found two or three things I might have been interested in buying which was some kind of absolute-zero approaching record low.

I wasn't talking about Book Court, Community Bookstore a few blocks down. The one that closes for a few months so he can go on vacation. That's a classic book store. Book Court is obviously doing well.

Community Bookstore is still there? Good for him. Haven't been down that far down Court in a while and I was kind of figuring he had succumbed to the inevitable.

Last I checked it was there. Haven't been around there for a while myself. I used to live on Court btw Kane and Baltic, circa 1999-2002 or so.

Ha, just read the yelp page for that which is actually kind of amusing. Some entries from December so I assume that he still there.

What was the name of the little bookstore that lasted a year or two on Sackett Street off Court right before that? Spyglass, Looking Glass, Seeing Eye?

Tell-Tale Books.

I was able to remember somehow. Brain getting ready for Wikipedia blackout.

I think it's somehow appropriate the Queens thread is also the "old-school Brooklyn" thread (and you know what I mean by "old school").

Now can we talk about Don's Music?

And Happy Cow records?

Sorry, didn't go in Don Music's too much for some reason and don't really remember Happy Cow. Do always think of the theme music of this thread as "Brooklyn-Queens" by 3rd Bass and often hear auditory hallucination of Steve Martin saying "For me?" whilst reading.

Don was awesome. Carried great CDs but didn't have enough turnover on used vinyl. Prices a bit higher than I liked for vinyl, would've been perfect if they were a few bucks cheaper and he'd sell more and get more used stock in. He'd tell great stories though. A few years ago when I did the Part Time Punks festival in LA he came out. He has/had a store there, Don's in Eagle Rock.

Holy Cow (not happy!) was this guy, I think Steve was his name? It was on 9th st just below 5th avenue. Nice selection, unpretentious, store. friendly.

Trying to remember, there was this weird faceless little CD store on Montague Street named something like Sound Exchange or Record Exchange- there was a sister store in the Slope or somewhere-that actually turned out to be pretty good. Even more surprising was that sometimes the kids that worked there would be playing something that I didn't know at the time and I'd buy it- Eddie Palmieri, The Sun of Latin Music and My Favorite, The Happiest Days of Our Lives come to mind.

My Favorite...big in Long Island!

Were they actually big somewhere? They had that mopey mirror star Morrissey vibe so I never could tell

They had a decent sized regional following and some indie-success/attention outside of Long Island/Brooklyn, but never quite broke through.

If only nabisco had held his current position back then when he could have given them the push that they needed.

While we are walking down Court Street memory lane here are some other names that just came to mind, for good or for bad- Cousins, The Bagel Point, La Carciofa, Roberto Cappuccino- the last one seems to still be there.

Bagel Point...which turned into Court St Cafe or whatever it was called, which I really liked, same guy went on to open the mediterranean place on 5th avenue whose name I can't remember.

But Bagel Point...I heard some serious stories about sexual harassment from one of the owners.

Carciofa was my corner, is now Watty and Meg, right?

Cousins I get mixed up with Cody's Ale House. One of them I used to go to for brunch on weekends for pub grub. No Waterfront Ale House but decent.

Never heard those stories about BP owner, but yeah, place it turned into was OK.
Don't what is there where Carciofa was. Think Cody's replaced Cousins, not sure.

In other memories of Ct. St. past
Shakespeare's Sister: gone
Sweet Melissa: still there, apparently

Sweet Melissa's food was ok to great but I had the WORST customer service experience there.

That was always problematic but I'm wondering what exactly happened to you that was so bad.

I don't remember, just waiting for ever and ever as was all the other tables, and they were full, but they were clearly serving everyone who came in to get coffee or stuff to go, while we sat and waited for like an hour.

When did this become the Downtown Brooklyn thread? Is queens so boring that you have nothing to talk about except longing for other neighborhoods?

We used to refer to Community Bookstore as "Bipolar Books"

We just decidde to give the Unisphere a little rest, is all.

Ha. Was in the neighborhood yesterday evening so went by there and it was harder than ever to get into.

It reminded of what I read about the apartment of the late great cinemaniac Roberta Hill.

I miss that neighborhood even though it's a bit Hobokeny now (and noticeably moreso even than when I moved in about four years ago)

Yeah, I miss that neighborhood too, obviously. I even liked walking around there when I was completely bored and had no interest in going in any of those stores or restaurants.

It was hard to get into the Unisphere?

Can someone explain Forest Hills to me? I was poking around on Trulia, and on one hand I kept seeing all these extremely affordable coops near good schools, and then there would be these very ordinary looking single family homes for like $1.5 million. Is there like fake Forest Hills and real Forest Hills or something?

well there's the forest hills garden neighborhood which is like a wealthy suburb and then the rest of forest hills which is mostly yr average queensy apt buildings

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Forest_Hills_Gardens,_Queens,_NY.jpg

forest hills gardens

vs.

rest of forest hills

http://www.queensnewyork.com/realestate/dix/fh7992.jpeg
http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/79/bigphoto/066/2206066_1.jpg

forest hills garden = burt bacharach
forest hills = the ramones

forest hills gardens is also privately owned and so there are signs on every road that say 'no loitering' or whatever. it's basically a gated community w/o a gate that has the benefit of being on like 6 subway lines.

And for many years Jews weren't allowed, so it has that going for it.

Really, from the LIRR train station into the gardens, it's one of the most beautiful areas of NY, but you can't afford to live there, and the rest of Forest Hills is just ok. Some people are like "hey Brooklyn, I live in Forest Hills, it's on the train and it's so cheap so there!" except you're way out in Forest Hills.

what I find interesting is the contrast between the super pretty forest hills area and the brutal ugliness of the 239273-lane queens blvd around there. I guess all the pretty parts of queens are just little bubbles though. I mean, that's true for most places in new york I guess. but it's particularly glaring there.

Successfully stopped thinking about that for a while, but I guess the repressed always has to return

Yeah we just got a car and decided to drive out to the Trader Joe's in Queens, and MAN does it get ugly around Metropolitan Ave. I guess we were basically driving through Middle Village and Rego Park? Yuk.

haha yeah that part of queens is so oppressively ugly it's kinda amazing. when we lived in woodside we would go to that trader joe's once in a while cause there's a bus that goes directly there / sorta just out of fascination.

Hey Queens people and observant Jews: I need to send a shiva platter/basket to someone in Kew Gardens and I need to order it today or tmrw. Can anyone recommend where to order from? My normal go-to religious person that I can always ask for advice is the person I'm sending the food to, so I can hardly call her up and ask. :-/

I come close to being in that venn diagram but I don't eat in jewishy queens that often

web search suggests this place tho: http://www.yelp.com/biz/bens-best-kosher-delicatessen-rego-park

It also has to be glatt kosher/Star K-certified, but I guess I can call and ask them that. Thanks, E.

Any other suggestions also welcome.

That's probably "best". I imagine there's a ton of places out there amidst the bukharian jews but I wouldn't know where to start. Like this place:

http://www.kingdavidkosher.com/

20% rent increase. I probably actually am moving to Queens guys.