rolling "Is This Racist?" thread

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Thought we should have a thread that's a catch-all for any and all conversations that start like this, since we seem to have like five or six threads for it.

I'll go first:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPBbMbKSZrQ

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:02 (ten years ago) link

I dunno if its racist but its certainly unlistenable crap

Dr. Lol Evans (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:06 (ten years ago) link

Oh dude, I always wonder about this one: "White Girl" by X. what the fuck is up with that? Has John Doe ever addressed it?

kkvgz, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:08 (ten years ago) link

also, this thread is not just for songs, but commercials, movies, tv shows, jpegs, assorted anything.

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:10 (ten years ago) link

Oh word, noticed this is on I Love Everything.

kkvgz, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:10 (ten years ago) link

yeah I mean where the fuck is I Love Racism already

cambyrdsclosetvacuumsounds4fun (acoleuthic), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:11 (ten years ago) link

Oh dude, I always wonder about this one: "White Girl" by X. what the fuck is up with that? Has John Doe ever addressed it?

what do you think is racist about this song...?

Dr. Lol Evans (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:12 (ten years ago) link

Why's he talking about white girls?

kkvgz, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:13 (ten years ago) link

for reference:

She's blonde,
She's blonde,
Comes along the sidewalk.

She's Blonde,
Leave a trail of blue and black,
Up to you fighting back.

She's Blonde,
Steel chains,
A noose of charms on our necks.

I find out nothing when we talk and sit,
Blue heart passion and watch the set.

Easy to fall, when part of your skull starts to break away,
Cheaters walk, down the block behind this evil street.

She's a white girl well I'm living with a white girl,
She's a white girl well I'm living with a white girl-

Nineteen,
Nineteen.. losing her man to an old girl.

Nineteen,
Drain every beer left over at home,
and listen to ghosts in the other room.

I Can't!
Why not? You're alone inside his keeping.

Oh I'll replace your drunk old man,
Sit in the parking lot and hold your hand.

Easy to fall, when part of your skull starts to break away...
Drugged and in love out at a club pulling me outside.

She's a white girl, well I'm living with a white girl,
She's a white girl, well I'm living with a white girl-

Easy to fall, when part of your skull starts to break away...
drugged and in love out at a club pulling me outside.

She's a white girl well I'm living with a white girl,
She's a white girl well I'm living with a white girl

having just finished re-reading We Got the Neutron Bomb my guess is this song is about the young lady that Exene moved out to California with, who was by all accounts something of a bitch who would pull white-supremacist provacateur type stuff to get a rise out of people.

Dr. Lol Evans (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:19 (ten years ago) link

blanking on her name at the moment.

Dr. Lol Evans (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:20 (ten years ago) link

Not racist. Someone else could make the argument for exploitative, but it's a stretch to say that the Kings of Leon have any hatred or intolerance toward black people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aENX1Sf3fgQ

Now apologize for making me watch a Kings of Leon video for two minutes.

http://tinyurl.com/vrrr0000m (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:20 (ten years ago) link

Yeah, I guess exploitative and colonialist (is that the right word?) more than captial-R RACIST, but still like; who does a video treatment that;'s like "OK, you're hugging black kids for four minutes"

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:22 (ten years ago) link

i think it's hard to call a music video 'exploitative' -- what are they exploiting these kids for? no one watches music videos. they have no impact, unless you're lady gaga

colonialist maybe, but remember that KOL are the most popular band in europe

J0rdan S., Monday, 20 September 2010 19:24 (ten years ago) link

racist, clearly not

J0rdan S., Monday, 20 September 2010 19:24 (ten years ago) link

would've preferred video featuring band being murdered by black kids

Dr. Lol Evans (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:24 (ten years ago) link

It reminded me of a generic John Cougar Mellencamp video. Had they been white kids, it would've looked like 70% of the videos on CMT.

http://tinyurl.com/vrrr0000m (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:26 (ten years ago) link

Still waiting for an apology.

http://tinyurl.com/vrrr0000m (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:27 (ten years ago) link

Yeah, I guess exploitative and colonialist (is that the right word?) more than captial-R RACIST, but still like; who does a video treatment that;'s like "OK, you're hugging black kids for four minutes"

obv the answer is "the dude who directed the new Kings of Leon video, whose name somehow has not yet made it to the bits of the Internet you can hit within 5 minutes of using Google"

(that more than anything else is making me lol, like whoever this was basically went "I'll do this for you and it will be awesome! I don't want any credit tho" *waits for shitstorm*)

juggalo iglesias (HI DERE), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:27 (ten years ago) link

carles is slippin -- passion pit already did the "hire a choir of underprivileged minority youths" thing

J0rdan S., Monday, 20 September 2010 19:28 (ten years ago) link

he's not even listed on the mtv site, which is usually v good about putting directors up in there

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:33 (ten years ago) link

gonna lol if it was Hype Williams

juggalo iglesias (HI DERE), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:41 (ten years ago) link

the video and song are both unmentionably terrible w/ stupid and retrograde notions about race but i don't think they are simply ~racist~

Chinedu "Edu" Obasi Ogbuke (nakhchivan), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:46 (ten years ago) link

Sophie Muller directed it.

Kerm, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:56 (ten years ago) link

more offensive for not being funny

bnw, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 01:54 (ten years ago) link

that was a fake

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:51 (ten years ago) link

but it was racist because someone realized that they could spell "nigger" by a video game and they set up a soccer video game and took a photo of it and sent it all over the internet

so yes, racist

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:52 (ten years ago) link

this isn't a thread for lol racism, fyi. keep that shit to "encyclopedia of racist products" or, like, 4chan

my friend flocka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:55 (ten years ago) link

strictly concern trolling in here.

Kerm, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:57 (ten years ago) link

I figured it was some soccer thing. Wouldn't have been surprised if it had been real.

http://tinyurl.com/vrrr0000m (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:58 (ten years ago) link

take it to i love footy

p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 04:50 (ten years ago) link

love the gawker update where they act like they understood the joke from the beginning

jeff, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:30 (ten years ago) link

barf

http://i55.tinypic.com/25oxf7k.png

maybe LJ is right about ilx being the smartest message board

my friend flocka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:35 (ten years ago) link

http://hipsterhitler.com/

p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:40 (ten years ago) link

gawker isnt a message board

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:42 (ten years ago) link

ilx is my favorite blog

markers, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:44 (ten years ago) link

MIXMASTER
RACE

EASTSIDE
WESTSIDE
GENOCIDE

p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:45 (ten years ago) link

is anti-semitism racist or not, because this guy at the bar I frequent is convinced that Birth Of A Nation was produced by Jews & that the Jews control the media etc etc

I know it sucks either way just wanted 2 know ur opinions

4 my muthafuckin mods (crüt), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 06:02 (ten years ago) link

Of course anti-semitism is racism. It's just that racism against Jews has acquired a term of its own, probably because discriminating them has been so prominent historically.

Where it gets tricky is when anti-Israel or anti-Zionist statements are equated with anti-semitism; of course some anti-Israel/anti-Zionist people are also anti-semitists/racists, but many of them aren't. But your case is pretty obviously racist because the target is Jews as a whole, not Israeli politics or anything.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 06:56 (ten years ago) link

are the finns a race?

mookieproof, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 06:59 (ten years ago) link

Ca. 300 Finnish Jews fought in the War alongside the German Army[3][4]. The field synagogue operated by the Finnish army was probably a unique phenomenon in Europe.

Guess they didn't have Google then either.

http://tinyurl.com/vrrr0000m (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 14:00 (ten years ago) link

take it to i love footy

― p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3),

jesus way to zing an entire bord of innocents wtf

i dont love everything, i love football (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 14:02 (ten years ago) link

Subtle "Americans don't like soocer and aren't racist" undertones there

Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 14:04 (ten years ago) link

yeah really i'm getting some prety bad vibes offa this zorn character. bet he's norwegian/icelandic thor worshipper

i dont love everything, i love football (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 14:05 (ten years ago) link

zorn smash

p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 15:55 (ten years ago) link

is this chorus racist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4s6H4ku6ZY&ob=av3n

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 18:57 (ten years ago) link

?

my friend flocka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:01 (ten years ago) link

http://dasracist.net/

am0n, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:02 (ten years ago) link

as that article points out, tar has a real violent connotation in america's shameful history of lynching that harris would have been well aware of so that signifier in particular raises from a particularly ugly place. "briar patch" seems more specific to the trickster figure's cleverness in recognizing that the outsider antagonist can't see their inherited home as anything other than hell. thus it ever was.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 14 August 2020 15:23 (two months ago) link

(finally getting some use out of that year studying bettelheim!)

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 14 August 2020 15:24 (two months ago) link

thank u for this intel. I figured 'tar baby' as concept was off limits but agree that the briar patch is still a useful concept. i feel like you can easily make up alternatives if you're speaking with someone (eg "NOOOOOOOO don't make MEEEEEEEE work from HOOOOOOOOME") as LL suggested. I also think a lot of people under 50 don't know what being thrown into the briar patch means.

I found that NPR article which was not terribly helpful imo (frankly once i found out the book's author was white i stopped taking it as any voice of moral authority).

I knew about the ice cream jingle which is a drag because I am a simple boy who is triggered by the promise of soft serve that is legally fit for human consumption.

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 14 August 2020 15:25 (two months ago) link

I actually had looked up "Turkey in the Straw" and saw the same stuff. What I meant was that the song (unlike say, the afaict blatantly racist "Jimmy Crack Corn") absolutely has racist connotations/roots, but when I glanced at the lyrics, as with, say, the (much later but still problematic by association) "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah," it didn't necessarily seem innately racist. What I saw were lots of racist variants, as noted in one of the first lines of the "coon songs" entry: "The song "Zip Coon", a variant of "Turkey in the Straw" ... " But no argument, racist connotations are enough to get that stupid tune out of circulation. I actually did find this entry that indicated the racist version of "Turkey in the Straw" came *first* which is another strike against it:

https://www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/question/2018/may.htm

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 August 2020 15:40 (two months ago) link

Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere, but I've been wondering about The Breeders' "Lime House" forever...of course they say it's about Sherlock Holmes in an opium den, but why does Kim full-throatedly sing the words 'tar baby'? Is it just white people whiting, is it benign ignorance, is it dog whistle?

blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Friday, 14 August 2020 15:49 (two months ago) link

I know "black tar" is a type of heroin, right? Maybe she's just trying to be clever? Certainly "Gigantic" has its issues as well.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 August 2020 15:54 (two months ago) link

The first verse of the lyrics to "Turkey in the Straw" as listed on Wikipedia are literally about whipping slaves

shout-out to his family (DJP), Friday, 14 August 2020 15:58 (two months ago) link

I guess maybe you could say it was about whipping horses but...

shout-out to his family (DJP), Friday, 14 August 2020 15:58 (two months ago) link

i agree that we need a substitute because it's a VERY useful concept.

Don't threaten me with a good time?

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Friday, 14 August 2020 15:59 (two months ago) link

And yeah, "Zip Coon" came first

shout-out to his family (DJP), Friday, 14 August 2020 16:00 (two months ago) link

Josh in Chicago, yeah,.black tar is a cheap and pretty readily available form of heroin...and that was always my read on the song, tbh, but the 'tar baby' line always bothered me.

blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Friday, 14 August 2020 16:03 (two months ago) link

Certainly "Gigantic" has its issues as well.

holy shit, file this under "shockingly old when you realized" for me

rob, Friday, 14 August 2020 21:26 (two months ago) link

90% white crowd singing along to it in Brixton was kind of uncomfortable tbh

Your original display name will be displayed in brackets (Left), Friday, 14 August 2020 21:31 (two months ago) link

lol I can imagine.

Genius annotation comes in handy:

According to Deal, the main inspiration for the song was the film Crimes of the Heart, in which a married woman falls in love with a black teenager and the song “Gigantic” is credited to Mrs John Murphy (Kim Deal’s pseudonym at the time of Come On Pilgrim and Surfer Rosa as an ironic feminist joke).

The song’s voyeuristic lyrics mostly revolve around a woman’s observation of an attractive black man making love to another woman, culminating in the oddly light-hearted but sexual chorus: “Gigantic, gigantic, gigantic / A big, big love”.

Oddly enough, the “big black mess” line wasn’t written by Kim Deal, but a friend of her husband’s named John Draper, who was writing random phrases down to help Deal flesh out the song. Out of his list, she kept “big black mess” and “hunk of love”.

pomenitul, Friday, 14 August 2020 21:33 (two months ago) link

oh geez. i never made the connection

Nhex, Friday, 14 August 2020 21:43 (two months ago) link

There's other stuff I find even more questionable, like the "shady place" line, which like "black tar baby" could be intended as a dubious pun.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 August 2020 22:16 (two months ago) link

Xpos known that song for 30 years and never crossed my mind that there was a racial connotation.

Dan Worsley, Friday, 14 August 2020 22:22 (two months ago) link

In my infinite naïveté I initially assumed – for the better part of a decade, at least – that 'shady', 'black' and 'dark' were all abstract signifiers meant to convey a racy mood. I still want to believe that's the case.

pomenitul, Friday, 14 August 2020 22:26 (two months ago) link

Likewise 😬

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Friday, 14 August 2020 22:32 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

wtf were they thinking?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-54419760

Fitness centre operator PureGym has apologised "unreservedly" for an "unacceptable" Facebook post from one of its gyms about slavery.

The Luton and Dunstable gym said "slavery was hard and so is this" regarding a workout designed to "celebrate black history month".

In a statement PureGym said the post was "wholly unacceptable" and "was not approved or endorsed by the company".

PureGym added it was removed "as soon as it was brought to our attention".

The company is the UK's largest gym chain by membership.

The workout, entitled "12 Years of Slave" after the Oscar-winning movie with a similar title, included 12 different moves such as burpees, push ups and box jumps.

here we go, ten in a rona (onimo), Monday, 5 October 2020 16:27 (two weeks ago) link

I'm on a conference call and I think I pulled every muscle in my face stifling laughter in case my mic isn't actually muted

shout-out to his family (DJP), Monday, 5 October 2020 16:33 (two weeks ago) link

o m f g

Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Monday, 5 October 2020 16:34 (two weeks ago) link

sadlol

pomenitul, Monday, 5 October 2020 16:35 (two weeks ago) link

The workout, entitled "12 Years of Slave" after the Oscar-winning movie with a similar title, included 12 different moves such as burpees, push ups and box jumps.

I mean

shout-out to his family (DJP), Monday, 5 October 2020 16:40 (two weeks ago) link

The Luton and Dunstable gym said "slavery was hard and so is this"

I'm screaming

shout-out to his family (DJP), Monday, 5 October 2020 16:44 (two weeks ago) link

dude behind this btw

https://vimeo.com/344055848

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 5 October 2020 16:56 (two weeks ago) link

The Luton and Dunstable gym said "slavery was hard and so is this" regarding a workout designed to "celebrate black history month".

expected the name of the company to be dunder-mifflin

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Monday, 5 October 2020 17:01 (two weeks ago) link

slavery burpees

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 5 October 2020 19:10 (two weeks ago) link

"burpees are for convicts" is already a thing with gym dudes

shout-out to his family (DJP), Monday, 5 October 2020 19:23 (two weeks ago) link

Next month's promotion is "Ab Day Macht Frei"

Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 5 October 2020 19:28 (two weeks ago) link

Pure Gym announce their new Black History Month facilities. 🏋🏽‍♂️🥴@Puregym_Luton pic.twitter.com/9UP636T8H7

— Munya Chawawa (@munyachawawa) October 5, 2020

seumas milm (gyac), Monday, 5 October 2020 19:32 (two weeks ago) link

Apparently... the guy who did this is Black

I'm fucking dying

shout-out to his family (DJP), Monday, 5 October 2020 19:34 (two weeks ago) link

do you get a free ronaldinho bottle opener when you join?

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 October 2020 13:40 (two weeks ago) link

"slavery was hard and so is this"

imagining this line getting axed from an early draft of Bamboozled for being too on-the-nose

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Tuesday, 6 October 2020 13:44 (two weeks ago) link

exactly!

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 October 2020 13:48 (two weeks ago) link

Slavery was hard
And so is this
Better give me something
So I can lift

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 6 October 2020 17:24 (two weeks ago) link

My supervisors led an all-staff discussion of race and equity by 1. giving us a glossary of terms to study for 15 minutes; 2. opening up the meeting participant list and going in alphabetical order, 3. requiring everyone to speak about their "experiences" with these terms, and 4. Stopping 1/3 of the way through the list b/c we were out of time.

The result, or course, was that the people of color on the list felt they had to talk about their personal experiences with racism, the white ppl on the list felt they had to say something, whether or not they had anything meaningful to share, and any POC staff members who happened to be in the last 2/3 of the alphabet had to listen to white guys musing about racial equity and their experience living in diverse neighborhoods without being allowed to respond. Oh, and the last person to talk was a white guy.

Am I right in thinking this is - not good?

Lily Dale, Monday, 12 October 2020 17:26 (one week ago) link

are you sure this wasn't an episode of The Office

frogbs, Monday, 12 October 2020 17:32 (one week ago) link

I sent them the most tactful email I could w/suggestions for how future meetings could better support the voices of POC, and got a politely-worded but obviously pissed-off response; basically, "We did everything right and you are wrong, but thanks for your input."

Lily Dale, Monday, 12 October 2020 17:39 (one week ago) link

This sounds like it was a disaster

shout-out to his family (DJP), Monday, 12 October 2020 17:49 (one week ago) link

why require everyone to speak in the first place? emphasis should have been given to PoC but you require a bunch of white people to talk about race and then we get the monologue version of that Brad Paisley/LL Cool J song.

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Monday, 12 October 2020 17:57 (one week ago) link

(but only the Paisley parts)

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Monday, 12 October 2020 17:57 (one week ago) link

I'm just going to say that always putting the onus on the participants of color to lead the discussion is some strong "tell the class why they should stop spitting on you" energy

shout-out to his family (DJP), Monday, 12 October 2020 18:04 (one week ago) link

that's kinda why I don't get why people were mandated to speak at all. this sounds like a very slapped-together meeting with very low effort.

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Monday, 12 October 2020 18:06 (one week ago) link

it's not an option for every group or organization, but it seems like it would be better to get a third party to lead a discussion on race, or at least someone with some training.

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Monday, 12 October 2020 18:09 (one week ago) link

Their stated reason for requiring everyone to speak was that it's important for everyone to engage with these issues, however uncomfortable it makes you. I really get the impression that they went in with one thought only, which was "White people don't talk about race enough, let's make the white people talk," not realizing that this is going to put a greater burden of discomfort on POC and also give the impression of prioritizing white voices.

Part of the problem is that the supervisors running the meeting (both white) think they're experts on race and equity, ostensibly care deeply about it, and thus are very defensive about the idea that they might be doing a less-than-stellar job.

Lily Dale, Monday, 12 October 2020 18:15 (one week ago) link

"We've called this impromptu meeting so we could put the few POC who work here on the spot by telling the rest of us how not to be racist. We then will have ten minutes of voluntary confessional time for whites to say how guilty they feel about racism, followed by snacks in the break room so we can all be awkward together and eat pizza."

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Monday, 12 October 2020 18:16 (one week ago) link

Maybe my email was too tactful. I'm not sure the "um, you guys led a staff discussion about race where some POC weren't allowed to talk, do you realize how bad this is?" part of it got through.

Lily Dale, Monday, 12 October 2020 18:22 (one week ago) link

I may have complained about this before but one of my schools tried to have "implicit bias training" as part of the mandatory professional development for teachers, and it upset so many people that the principal backed down and made it "optional." Which means only the people who wanted to examine their implicit bias actually did the training. Which is...exactly not the point.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Monday, 12 October 2020 18:27 (one week ago) link

my workplace has made the mistake of thinking that because it's majority POC that we don't need any more training, that we are fully cooked and ready to rip in a world devoid of racism
sadly, nope

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 12 October 2020 18:40 (one week ago) link


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