Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

but clearly one that resonates with a lot of people and particularly a lot of men

unforgivably dishonest
this sums up how i feel about his comedy in general --i didn't relate to him at all, nor did i like his persona. i watched the show but got super turned off when he started projecting romance on the woman who didn't speak english. i think the most off-putting thing about him was how he used his perception of his own grotesqueness as a way to identify with his audience and...to put it mildly, i didn't feel it. also, i am not a parent but the people i know who liked him liked what he had to say about parenting. which also makes the whole thing a little worse? can you imagine how his kids feel? yikes.

Do you know anyone that was surprised that Louis C.K. asked colleagues to observe him actually wanking?
yes i did know some people who were surprised about the forced wank viewing. i was not one of them but a couple of friends texted me to say "idgi" and i had to explain :(

xp you’re def right katherine, but i think that’s symptomatic of some deep rot in our society not just inevitable as seems to be implied in louis ck’s show

also otm exculpatory for disgusting people

Louie the series had some good stuff in it (Lynch/tv show arc probably the best) but it got really tiresome with the "Louie has awkward sex" plots - I mean, he got laid a *lot* in that show, it was ridiculous.

yea this bothered me too, can't really buy the whole lovesick puppy thing when he gets laid every time he steps foot outside. worst is probably the one where he follows the cashier home and berates her the whole way and then picks up a lady outside her apartment, or something like that. it was gross.

the getting laid a lot thing doesn't but me that much (stuff like the Yvonne Strahovski episode and most of the stuff with Parker Posey was clearly meant to be surreal / not really representative of reality) but that particular segment with the cashier was maybe the worst thing in the whole show

the scene with Adlon in the last season where he basically (iirc) re-enacts what was later confirmed as his real-life M.O. was super unsettling but at least was not treated like a wacky punchline

who would y'all guess would be the next comic to be revealed as a bigger creep based on them already revealing themselves as a creep on TV? marc maron seems like he would be if it didn't seem like his entire podcast was devoted to preemptively and exhaustively showcasing his faults.

Yeah, we'd have heard about Maron by now.

the only thing of CK's that i've ever seen was a kind of comedy round-table program with him, seinfeld, chris rock and ricky gervais; the presence of gervais made him look relatively good iirc. so i'm obviously not the target audience, but . . . when events happen, is *anyone* all like omg i can't wait to see what CK has to say about this!? he's unnecessary. nothing is being lost by his well-deserved absence; there are lots of funny people who aren't creeps

tbf he's probably infinitesimally more necessary than matt lauer -- no idea why that guy thinks he brings anything to the table

I'm not going to pretend I didn't think his stand-up and his show (at times) were genuinely brilliant, insightful, and better than anything produced by 99% of the comedians working today

but I have no desire to hear what he has to say on any subject or watch any project he's involved with ever again

He kept asking Dick Cheney if he was a lizard, which is something I do think more cultural figures should have done, but in retrospect I dunno if that lack of impulse control to do that was emblematic of anything more sinister.

I understand the impulse to be a bit delicate but like "being a creep" does not cover what Louis CK did; he did sex crimes, and used his influence in his professional community to keep people who knew about it quiet for years.

yes

They're still quiet about it, no?

Nah, an ep of Put Your Hands Together recently had a fair amount of talk about the situation from Rhea Butcher and one of the guest comedians.

I mean that’s one data point but yknow

wtf with the Morrisey analogy? Morrissey is a garbage person but he isn't a sexual abuser. It's nuts to compare them.

I'm not going to pretend I didn't think his stand-up and his show (at times) were genuinely brilliant, insightful, and better than anything produced by 99% of the comedians working today

but I have no desire to hear what he has to say on any subject or watch any project he's involved with ever again

This is also a v good summary of my feelings.

I want to hear him apologize and maybe his thoughts about why the fuck he thought that behavior was OK because maybe that could help some other people never ever do anything like it

That’s about it

i don't think he thought it was ok -- he knew it was not ok and enjoyed it/repeated it because of that afaict

to be fair this might not be the best discussion for me to weigh in on because I hate virtually all standup comedy

^

I do think the idioms and culture of standup is complicit in this -- how could they not be if he could come back to a standing ovation so soon?

Most pop culture is bought and sold for and by bros

meaning I don’t think it’s just standup comedy where this could happen.

You could actually probably draw an easy graph of showbiz categories plotted over “by/for bros” and “by/for everyone” vs “nonconsensual sex act comebacks allowed yes/no” and get a nice (terrible) diagonal

Stand up comedy is worse than general culture though come on

http://www.vulture.com/2018/08/louis-ck-comedy-cellar-women-describe-rape-whistle-joke.html?utm_campaign=vulture&utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s1&__twitter_impression=true

US stand up is quite different, in fairness.

I'm not sure about Tombot's graph - Woody Allen and Roman Pulanski don't sell a lot of baseball caps.

i am getting kind of tired of standup

i get through about 10 minutes of a lot of netflix specials

Having spoken to people to whom he did this, you’re wrong.

One time he walked up behind a comedian before he went on stage and said, “I’m going to fuck you whether you want to or not.” Then he did a set.

So, go fuck yourself and your ignorant support of him. https://t.co/O8gOyjOzEz

— Dave Anthony, Patriot, Plastic Sword Owner (@daveanthony) August 29, 2018

You could actually probably draw an easy graph of showbiz categories plotted over “by/for bros” and “by/for everyone” vs “nonconsensual sex act comebacks allowed yes/no” and get a nice (terrible) diagonal

― El Tomboto, Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:55 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

uh... no? it would be nice if it were this simple but no

(well not "nice" but you know what I mean)

i am getting kind of tired of standup

i get through about 10 minutes of a lot of netflix specials

― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, August 29, 2018 3:04 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah I feel like I watch a lot that end up being just alright. I think the only really great ones I've seen in the past year and a half or so were Sarah Silverman, Neal Brennan, and Maria Bamford.

love Sarah so much

the only new comic I thought was any good recently was Rory Scovel and that was like a year ago? most specials/standup are terrible, same as with any other medium

yeah i mean it's just overkill, netflix obviously feels like it's super cheap to produce original content but if you don't really follow comedy like me you just end up randomly clicking one and, i guess it's fine, but just too much of it

it used to feel like when they got an hour-long special it was a big milestone and cemented them as a big thing

Michelle Wolf is great live (don't judge her by that Netflix series).

Nah, an ep of Put Your Hands Together recently had a fair amount of talk about the situation from Rhea Butcher and one of the guest comedians.

I def feel like I have not heard much from his victims. And most of the women comics Louie prominently surrounded himself with - Sarah Silverman, Pamela Adlon, Tig Notaro - have had kind of muted reactions. Not that I would expect any of them to get vicious on him about it, mostly they just seemed really bummed. which is similar to how a lot of male comedians reacted to Cosby, I suppose.

is *anyone* all like omg i can't wait to see what CK has to say about this!?

― mookieproof, Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:05 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah a lot of people. It's not just that he was widely popular, is that he inserted himself into a special sphere where high brow and low brow collided + all the wisdom shit people take from comedian Upper Mississippi Shakedown smartly pointed out in another thread: people really took CK's wisdom to heart on lot of subjects, like he has some sort of gospel, you have animated videos on Youtube about his views on the environment, you have time top ten quotes about life by CK in the Time Magazine, he worked with David Lynch but he also sold out the MSG, etc. Lots of people saw him as a friend, in a way only comedians can be. He was smart and woke enough to include how shitty it is for woman to deal with dangerous men. Heck even when the NYT article came out people were like 'oh but why act surprised he talks about it in his stand up or Louie'. I have had people defend his shitty apology letter and tell me how pissed they were they couldn't see his latest movie. I can't think of many figures that were beloved the way Louis CK was, seriously.

I don't want any part of this ever gain and I don't care if he is still a great comedian, fuck that guy forever. That's how I'll deal with it (edgy I know). However, I am pretty positive his next special is going to make a tons of cash and that he will be called genius by several critics. Heck, Woody Allen has made shitty films since 1992 and people still go see his films, in droves.

Also stand up comedy is still a great form of storytelling, people like Gadbsy, Birbiglia, Gethard, Burress, Bamford, deserve better than to be lumped in with those life-ruining psychos.

can we not with Woody Allen (yet again). totally different situation

VHS' breakdown there also explains why I don't like Tombot's characterization of his body of work as simply "bro stuff." (Not because it's dismissive, but because it's inaccurae, unless "bro" has lost all meaning, which maybe it has)

xpost

Yeah okay.

Still, people are quick to apologize for all sorts of celebrities. People will be even quicker with Louie because they love him in a way that is very personal, is my grander point.

Tig Notaro - have had kind of muted reactions.

I thought Tig talked about it publicly (if somewhat vaguely) and wrote an arc on her series about it?

I remember some piece when the 2nd season started about how Louie was *not* actually involved with the show in any way (he has a producer credit iirc). Didn't watch the show so dunno about story arcs - I watched a couple eps of S1 and wasn't into it.

Oh yeah I forgot Notaro in my small list of great stand up comedians making great work.

There's a bunch about it in this Fresh Air interview:
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=611585606

ah I didn't know about that! thx for the link

This was also where Terry Gross (in typically awkward style) tries to square art with artist, at really the wrong moment:

GROSS: I get it. I just want to say one more thing about Louis C.K., and that is, I feel so bad in the sense that I think he's so talented. I think he is sometimes, like, so funny. And, you know, I really liked his show, not always so much when there was a love interest. That didn't always work out very well. But I think it's just so sad that he had the compulsion to behave the way he did because he is so talented and because he had so many good insights into human nature that he can express comedically. I just wanted to say that.

NOTARO: Well, I mean, that's one thing. But it's - you know, it's also sad. I - like I said, I know so many of the people - there's other people. Not everybody...

GROSS: No. Oh, absolutely.

NOTARO: ...Was in that article that...

GROSS: Yeah.

NOTARO: ...He's done this to. And so to know firsthand the pain and destruction that - just what it's done to other people is - that's really, really sad to me.

GROSS: I completely agree with you, and I didn't want to make it seem like I was making light of all the pain that he caused. I just think...

NOTARO: Oh, no, no, no.

GROSS: I mean, it's tragic for him, too, that he's trapped in that kind of behavior that I don't - it's behavior I don't understand.

NOTARO: Yeah. I don't either. And I just - I have spoken in depth with many people that he affected, and it is infuriating what it has done to them.

GROSS: So I know this is hard for you to talk about. So let's move on to another subject (laughter).

NOTARO: Thank you.

she is a terrible interviewer, really