ALTMAN POLL

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

if we've done this, i cant find it

Poll Results

OptionVotes
The Long Goodbye (1973) 12
McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971) 12
Nashville (1975) 11
3 Women (aka Robert Altman's 3 Women) (1977) 8
MASH (1970) 6
Short Cuts (1993) 5
Gosford Park (2001) 5
California Split (1974) 4
Popeye (1980) 4
A Prairie Home Companion 3
Thieves Like Us (1974) 1
Vincent and Theo (1990) 1
O.C. & Stiggs (1984) (released in 1987) 1
The Player (1992) 1
That Cold Day in the Park (1969) 1
A Wedding (1978) 1
Quintet (1979) 1
Prêt-à-Porter also known as Ready to Wear (1994) 1
The Katherine Reed Story (1965) (short documentary) 0
Kansas City (1996) 0
The Gingerbread Man (1998) 0
Cookie's Fortune (1999) 0
Dr. T & the Women (2000) 0
The James Dean Story (1957) (documentary) (co-dir: George W. George) 0
The Company (2003) 0
Aria (1987) - segment: Les Boréades 0
Beyond Therapy (1987) 0
Images (1972) 0
Brewster McCloud (1970) 0
Buffalo Bill and the Indians, or Sitting Bull's History Lesson (1976) 0
A Perfect Couple (1979) 0
HealtH (1980) 0
Countdown (1968) 0
Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean (1982) 0
Streamers (1983) 0
Secret Honor (1984) 0
Fool for Love (1985) 0
The Delinquents (1957) 0


johnny crunch, Thursday, 26 November 2009 23:39 (fourteen years ago) link

never realized how many Altman films I haven't seen. still voting The Player.

Information. Motivation. Supplementation. (wanko ergo sum), Thursday, 26 November 2009 23:46 (fourteen years ago) link

picking 1 is silly

Feingold/Kaptur 2012 (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 November 2009 23:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Many impressive films, but still: MASH.

Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 26 November 2009 23:47 (fourteen years ago) link

the last third of MASH is kinda pathetic.

Nashville & The Long Goodbye lead, followed by Thieves Like Us and Gosford Park, then maybe 3 Women, Short Cuts and McCabe.

Feingold/Kaptur 2012 (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 November 2009 23:50 (fourteen years ago) link

mash is way overrated in my book

i went long goodbye

johnny crunch, Thursday, 26 November 2009 23:51 (fourteen years ago) link

Wow, didn't realise he made so many movies! Have always loved MASH and it's probably the one of his I've seen the most but I recently saw The Long Goodbye and I guess that's gonna get my vote for now.

Jibe, Thursday, 26 November 2009 23:54 (fourteen years ago) link

Dr. M: You're right; the last part of MASH is much weaker. Still, I think it was the best example of Altman's chaotic, "everybody talking at once" style. And that style was perfect for a film about a chaotic, morally confused war.

Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 26 November 2009 23:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Yes. And it is really funny too.

Jibe, Friday, 27 November 2009 00:04 (fourteen years ago) link

Nashville. one of my all time faves.

saw Mash recently and it has aged quite poorly. it's good but not great. xp

sonderangerbot, Friday, 27 November 2009 00:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Jesus christ, I have no idea how to whittle this one down. Probably my favorite director, and I full-on love too many of his movies to choose just one. M.A.S.H., though, is def. overrated and not among my faves. I might have to say The Long Goodbye, maybe, although Nashville, California Split, McCabe & Mrs. Miller, and Gosford Park rate just as highly. Even a lot of his underrated movies (The Company, Images, Vincent And Theo) are great. The Player, Brewster McCloud, A Prairie Home Companion...all so good. Tanner '88 is one of my all-time faves, although it's a TV miniseries. RIP, BOB.

I HEART CREEPY MENS (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 27 November 2009 00:14 (fourteen years ago) link

McCabe and Mrs. Miller

circa1916, Friday, 27 November 2009 00:16 (fourteen years ago) link

I have only seen very few of these but I'm going with Gosford Park.

fields of salmon, Friday, 27 November 2009 00:21 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah i thought abt if i should include tanner '88

johnny crunch, Friday, 27 November 2009 00:36 (fourteen years ago) link

and then i didnt include it

johnny crunch, Friday, 27 November 2009 00:36 (fourteen years ago) link

are we picking worst film ever made? because there are a few contenders here.

jed_, Friday, 27 November 2009 01:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Anybody seen Streamers? I don't even think it's available on DVD.

Mr. Snrub, Friday, 27 November 2009 01:13 (fourteen years ago) link

i had Streamers on my hd for like a year, decided one day to watch it only to realize it was a godawful vhs-rip with distorted sound. so no, still haven't seen it

sonderangerbot, Friday, 27 November 2009 01:17 (fourteen years ago) link

mccabe and mrs miller

max, Friday, 27 November 2009 01:18 (fourteen years ago) link

^^^ one of my favorite films

also a big short cuts fan

¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨ (Lamp), Friday, 27 November 2009 01:27 (fourteen years ago) link

mccabe, long goodbye, 3 women, california split all amazing

velko, Friday, 27 November 2009 01:31 (fourteen years ago) link

mccabe pretty easily for me. as noted in other threads, i think nashville is a long, shallow sneer.

hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Friday, 27 November 2009 01:33 (fourteen years ago) link

How does Short Cuts hold up now? I remember enjoying it at the time but it's kind of unwieldy at 3hrs. Some great moments though.

sam500, Friday, 27 November 2009 01:38 (fourteen years ago) link

are we picking worst film ever made? because there are a few contenders here.

A bit of an exaggeration, but there are definitely a few clunkers. At least I can say, though, that Altman didn't make any stinkers because he was stuck in a rut or trying to make a quick buck. He was an experimenter and he was always trying something different. So I find even his failures interesting on a certain level. Doesn't mean I really ever want to watch Dr. T & The Women again...

I HEART CREEPY MENS (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 27 November 2009 01:41 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm not the hugest fan of Short Cuts. It doesn't really come together in the way that Altman seems to want it to. Definitely some good stuff in it, though (love Lyle Lovett's arc).

I HEART CREEPY MENS (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 27 November 2009 01:43 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah short cuts has good segments, but not all of them are good and the coming-together of the different strands feels forced.

otoh, it's better than grand canyon. (i assume it's better than crash too, but i'm not going to watch that to find out.)

hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Friday, 27 November 2009 02:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Spoiler: It's better than Crash. Which is damning it with the faintest of faint praise.

I HEART CREEPY MENS (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 27 November 2009 02:45 (fourteen years ago) link

lol yeah. Crash is pretty insipid and manipulative, especially THE scene.

Daniel, Esq., Friday, 27 November 2009 02:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Short Cuts meant so much to teenaged me, at least in part as a window into what I imagined life would be like in middle age. So, that.

Cricket riding a tumbleweed (Plasmon), Friday, 27 November 2009 02:58 (fourteen years ago) link

gotta go with Nashville

t0dd swiss, Friday, 27 November 2009 03:49 (fourteen years ago) link

yah short cuts was ~important~ and ~meaningful~ 2 teenage me also because i thought carver was a prophet 4 lyfe its shambolic and forced but i love like a russian novel

¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨ (Lamp), Friday, 27 November 2009 04:21 (fourteen years ago) link

ya i voted shortcuts

real talk, mash is boring and dumb and crappy

farting irl (cankles), Friday, 27 November 2009 04:22 (fourteen years ago) link

so is the show

farting irl (cankles), Friday, 27 November 2009 04:22 (fourteen years ago) link

I saw Streamers when it was released -- his most homoerotic film, bcz of the play. Not a great piece of material, but some good acting from Modine and others.

are we picking worst film ever made? because there are a few contenders here.

Hell no, not even O.C. and Stiggs.

Feingold/Kaptur 2012 (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 November 2009 04:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Out of the ones I've seen, which is admittedly less than 1/2, I also had to vote Short Cuts. Like Lamp this is partially due to Carver <3.

bear say hi to me (ENBB), Friday, 27 November 2009 04:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Voted for McCabe and Mrs Miller.

Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 27 November 2009 04:33 (fourteen years ago) link

You know MASH is really amazing as it's all over the place, no more than Porky's-with-bullets in a few parts, sexist and cruel and all the rest of it and the characters don't make any damn sense (how comes hotlips is suddenly smiling and playing poker at the end with a bunch of people she hated for the last 2 hours?) and yet it's a bloody *brilliant *film despite the flaws.
i can never work it out. is it maybe just that it's dated so badly or is it just .. a mess. in a good way?

The Long Goodbye for me. Makes me want to live in L.A.

piscesx, Friday, 27 November 2009 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link

prob TLG for me. i love N'ville, but if I were going to give one the business for possibly being overrated...

feed them to the (Linden Ave) lions (will), Friday, 27 November 2009 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link

california split.

311 is a joek (s1ocki), Friday, 27 November 2009 14:59 (fourteen years ago) link

3 Women is one of the strangest, most fascinating films I've ever seen.

groovemaaan, Friday, 27 November 2009 15:29 (fourteen years ago) link

will Jimmy Dean ever become available on DVD?

Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 27 November 2009 15:37 (fourteen years ago) link

The Long Goodbye, just ahead of McCabe & Mrs Miller and Short Cuts. Still haven't seen Nashville though.

Dorian (Dorianlynskey), Friday, 27 November 2009 16:09 (fourteen years ago) link

Voted A Wedding because nobody else offered.

Twisted Hipster (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 November 2009 16:21 (fourteen years ago) link

Pragmatically, I'll be voting for Nashville, to stave off a win by MASH or Gosford Park. Otherwise, I'd vote 3 Women, The Long Goodbye or even The Company.

really senile old crap shit (Eric H.), Friday, 27 November 2009 17:41 (fourteen years ago) link

Or Short Cuts or McCabe.

really senile old crap shit (Eric H.), Friday, 27 November 2009 17:42 (fourteen years ago) link

wtf w/ The Company, Eric? Is it just the dance milieu? is there some open-heart surgery scene I missed?

Feingold/Kaptur 2012 (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 November 2009 17:54 (fourteen years ago) link

Vincent and Theo

smashing aspirant (milo z), Friday, 27 November 2009 18:38 (fourteen years ago) link

wtf w/ The Company

OK, yeah, the movie doesn't gel as "properly" as does Gosford, and it doesn't make for a neat, self-aware summation like Prairie Home, but The Company is the only one of his last stretch that fully achieves of-the-moment perspective. Maybe because it doesn't seem to ever aim for the major epiphanies, aside from "My Funny Valentine," which is absolutely one of the most thrilling scenes I've seen all decade (and manages it in spite of Neve's clearly limited skills as a dancer). So yeah, you can keep your Gosford Park.

really senile old crap shit (Eric H.), Saturday, 28 November 2009 02:28 (fourteen years ago) link

OK, I will! (as I don't even remember "My Funny Valentine.")

Feingold/Kaptur 2012 (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 28 November 2009 02:32 (fourteen years ago) link

YES. That scene was amazing. It's the outdoor performance, during the lightning storm. I was just agog the first time I watched that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n37R4o1WTM

I HEART CREEPY MENS (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 28 November 2009 02:35 (fourteen years ago) link

It's utterly insane to me that someone would think Spinal Tap is more affectionate toward its characters than Nashville but shrug.gif

i carry the torch for disco inauthenticity (Eric H.), Friday, 21 May 2021 20:33 (three years ago) link

it's just also affectionate and funny

I agree with that--courtesy of the performers; not Rob Reiner, I don't think--and that's what makes Spinal Tap great; if were it were flat-out ridicule, it'd be a bad TV sketch.

I just don't see the line that you do where Spinal Tap is this but Nashville is that.

clemenza, Friday, 21 May 2021 20:36 (three years ago) link

I don't remember much from Prairie Home Companion, beyond that I liked it and thought it was a nice way to sign off. Isn't there fake country music in that? Is the hostility and condescension people attribute to Nashville still there? I don't remember anything like that.

clemenza, Friday, 21 May 2021 20:39 (three years ago) link

Personally, I thought of one thing that undermines my claim that I could never love anything condescending: Tina Fey's Sarah Palin. Pretty sure that emerged from a place of deep contempt, but I can never watch that creation and not be filled with joy. So maybe I'm wrong, or maybe my contempt lines up perfectly with Fey's in that instance, or maybe Fey was able to connect with something about Palin at some deeper level that allowed her to mask the contempt.

clemenza, Friday, 21 May 2021 21:36 (three years ago) link

IIRC, the Country songs in PHC were provided by Keillor himself, and they were meant to be funny.

blue whales on ambient (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 21 May 2021 21:44 (three years ago) link

One of the key things to remember about the Nashville songs that many of them predate the movie: Ronee Blakley recycled stuff from her debut album; Karen Black had been recording demos in private for years; Carradine wrote "I'm Easy" for Shelley Plimpton when they were both in HAIR; and Henry Gibson had been doing "Keep-A-Goin'" as a poem going back to the mid-'60s at least.

So it wasn't like 'let's get some jokey songs because Country sucks'.

blue whales on ambient (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 21 May 2021 22:06 (three years ago) link

On that last point, though, was how the Nashville establishment took the songs and the film.

blue whales on ambient (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 21 May 2021 22:10 (three years ago) link

Good point. Blakley and Gibson I knew about, didn't know about Black and Carradine.

Also remembered--I think I have this right--Robert Duvall was originally supposed to play Haven Hamilton.

clemenza, Friday, 21 May 2021 22:26 (three years ago) link

Duvall was indeed the original choice.

Clem, you really need to check Jan Stuart's The Nashville Chronicles. It's a fantastic deep-dive book from the early '00s written with cooperation from Altman and most of then still-surviving cast members.

blue whales on ambient (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 21 May 2021 22:45 (three years ago) link

Posted this over on the Karen Black thread, but an album of her music is coming: https://shop.mexicansummer.com/product/karen-black-dreaming-of-you

blue whales on ambient (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 21 May 2021 23:07 (three years ago) link

Had to make a quick trip downstairs to confirm, but I've read the Stuart book--that and Harlan Lebo's Godfather book were the first making-of books I read.

I think I gleaned the Duvall casting from a Playboy interview Altman did just before Buffalo Bill came out; he said they broke over money.

clemenza, Friday, 21 May 2021 23:48 (three years ago) link

team clemenza/eric: afaict nashville isn't contemptuous of anyone except geraldine chaplin (idiot) and michael murphy (liar). first runners-up are shelley duvall (selfish), who has flown in from california; and, admittedly, ned beatty (doesn't appreciate kids or being married to 70s lily tomlin).

what i get from it isn't "nashville is fake" but (cornily enough) "where do we go from here". now that the answer is known it has become a grimmer movie, but not a cruel one.

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 22 May 2021 00:05 (three years ago) link

Duvall is, for me, the least successful, most dated character in the film: she isn't given a single moment that shades her vacuity.

Murphy is a political flunky right out of The Candidate, but I find his dumbstruck attraction to Christina Raines sweet. I don't feel Altman has contempt for Beatty at all. Chaplin, I guess you either hate her or find her amusingly spacey and pretentious.

"team clemenza/eric"--someone just died several thousand deaths.

clemenza, Saturday, 22 May 2021 00:14 (three years ago) link

three weeks pass...

That list is borderline insane. The top four is clearly inarguable but...Popeye at seven?! The Company near the bottom!? And The Player not much higher than that?!? GTFO

Jerome Percival Jesus (Old Lunch), Thursday, 17 June 2021 13:41 (two years ago) link

Yeah but Popeye is great.

i carry the torch for disco inauthenticity (Eric H.), Thursday, 17 June 2021 13:44 (two years ago) link

Def need to see Kansas City now

yeah popeye wld be top 10 for me

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 17 June 2021 19:14 (two years ago) link

(tbf i am borderline insane)

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 17 June 2021 19:16 (two years ago) link

extremely weird to do a top 20 list for a guy who directed 35-ish movies. Why not just rank them all as in the clickbait trend these days?

Anyway, this is my confession that I spent the whole time getting increasingly mad that they had ranked Dr. T and the Women so high before realizing it wasn't even on the list at all. Also, Popeye rules.

Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Thursday, 17 June 2021 19:57 (two years ago) link

there are several great Altman films, and a lot of good ones, but I thought Popeye was mediocre.

Dan S, Friday, 18 June 2021 02:43 (two years ago) link

I haven't seen a lot of what might be regarded as second-string Altman. There's something laborious about watching his movies that means that if they are not actively enjoyable, it's hard for me to step back and take the good with the bad.
The odd exception for me is Quintet, usually seen as the bottom-of-the-barrel, which I actually found quite watchable. Literally watchable, because the sets, costumes and cinematography outclass the script so completely.

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 18 June 2021 02:44 (two years ago) link

Best film not on that Guardian list is Buffalo Bill and the Indians, it is an semi-interesting semi-failure.

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 18 June 2021 02:49 (two years ago) link

it was a very odd film but I enjoyed it

Dan S, Friday, 18 June 2021 02:57 (two years ago) link

I hated Popeye and never looked at it a second time; thought Buffalo Bill was pretty good, better than some of the films on that list.

clemenza, Friday, 18 June 2021 03:20 (two years ago) link

extremely weird to do a top 20 list for a guy who directed 35-ish movies. Why not just rank them all as in the clickbait trend these days?

they do these top 20 lists every week, this one is presumably to tie in with the Altman season at the BFI

burnt hombre (stevie), Friday, 18 June 2021 09:10 (two years ago) link

I saw Popeye at the cinema when I was about 7 and can barely remember anything about it other than it seemed visually quite unusual to me at the time and for some reason I have a much clearer memory of seeing trashy but extremely fun sci-fi b-movies of that era like The Black Hole and Battle Beyond The Stars.

calzino, Friday, 18 June 2021 09:21 (two years ago) link

I was probably the same age when I saw Popeye and my main memory of it was my dad complaining about it as we were leaving the theater.

Vin Jawn (PBKR), Friday, 18 June 2021 11:11 (two years ago) link

seven months pass...

Bad news for fans with multi-region players:

Some followers of the INDICATOR label may be aware that, some years back, we teased Robert Altman’s CALIFORNIA SPLIT for a future release. Sadly, and despite a great deal of time and effort, legal complications have proven too much of a hurdle and we can now confirm that this release will not be happening. We are, of course, as upset with this news as you are, but hope to make up for it with many exciting releases of other great films to come.

Max Hamburgers (Eric H.), Thursday, 17 February 2022 14:59 (two years ago) link

For all its raging misogyny, MASH still holds up well.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Thursday, 17 February 2022 15:02 (two years ago) link

XP Some good chat about that with a poster who works with the label over at criterionforum (starts at post #32)

https://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=752664#p752645

TL;DR version is it came down to budgetary reasons that weren't obvious when Indicator initially licensed the title, and they can't fulfill now.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 17 February 2022 16:15 (two years ago) link

one year passes...

A friend was telling me about Ann Prentiss from California Split (and Paula's younger sister--you'd swear they were identical twins). God, what a story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Prentiss

Prentiss was convicted in a California court of a 1996 assault against her father, and a subsequent threat against members of her family. The district attorney claimed that Prentiss, while incarcerated on the assault charge, had attempted to hire another inmate to kill three people, including her father and actor-director Richard Benjamin, her brother-in-law. On July 23, 1997, the court sentenced her to 19 years in prison.

She was still there when she died in 2010.

clemenza, Saturday, 6 January 2024 23:59 (five months ago) link

For some reason the second sentence of that wikipedia article is: "Her father was of Sicilian descent." hmmm.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Sunday, 7 January 2024 02:26 (five months ago) link

It was between the sisters, Aimless. He had nothing to do with it.

clemenza, Sunday, 7 January 2024 02:45 (five months ago) link

Whoa, that story's a trip. We watched The Out of Towners over the holidays and were like 'why is Paula Prentiss in this tiny little walk-on role?' which is when we learned of the wholly separate existence of Ann Prentiss.

Great-Tasting Burger Perceptions (Old Lunch), Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:05 (five months ago) link

They have the same voice too, which is freaky

Josefa, Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:08 (five months ago) link

Very much so. I saw the Out of Towners a few times as a kid--no recollection of her in that (she plays a stewardess).

clemenza, Sunday, 7 January 2024 19:11 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

Bad news for fans with multi-region players:

Some followers of the INDICATOR label may be aware that, some years back, we teased Robert Altman’s CALIFORNIA SPLIT for a future release. Sadly, and despite a great deal of time and effort, legal complications have proven too much of a hurdle and we can now confirm that this release will not be happening. We are, of course, as upset with this news as you are, but hope to make up for it with many exciting releases of other great films to come.
― Max Hamburgers (Eric H.), Thursday, 17 February 2022 14:59 (two years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Just noticed last night that Amazon Prime (in the UK) have California Split in the correct aspect ratio and with all music cues intact, no cuts. It's leaving in 30 days. Even by Altman's standards, it's a wonderfully woozy film - sometimes the camera seems to just drift away from the action and there are whole scenes where the main actors are shot virtually out of frame. Laughed at the Aaron Spelling producer credit - he must have been DELIGHTED when he saw the finished film.

Ward Fowler, Monday, 19 February 2024 13:46 (three months ago) link

Aaron Spelling also has a producing credit on another favourite of mine, Three O’Clock High (1987).

I’m amazed that JAZZ ‘34 want included in the original poll

beamish13, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 02:55 (three months ago) link

That's a favorite of mine, and I didn't even like Kansas City very much.

birdistheword, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 03:36 (three months ago) link

Not the best visual quality but here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48gZLCft9ak

birdistheword, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 03:39 (three months ago) link

Aaron spelling produced house of yes; i had forgotten this due to being enamored w parker

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 21:08 (three months ago) link

Happy birthday, Bob!

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 21:48 (three months ago) link

The only filmmaker I can think of whose death made me actually tear up, although others made me proudly sad (Nagisa Oshima, Seijun Suzuki, Bigas Luna, Suzan Pitt, etc.)

beamish13, Wednesday, 21 February 2024 03:16 (three months ago) link

One anecdote about Altman, I was unaware of how much the man loved marijuana. Generally not surprising, but apparently the guy loved to smoke really, REALLY strong weed and more than a few collaborators have recalled others warning them not to smoke anything he offered them because if you do, you wouldn't be able to work or think straight for the rest of the day.

birdistheword, Wednesday, 21 February 2024 04:31 (three months ago) link

A short that he made in the mid-60’s, POT-AU-FOU, is about his love of reefer

beamish13, Wednesday, 21 February 2024 05:14 (three months ago) link

Re: California Split & streaming & the cancelled Indicator Blu...This was just posted over at the Criterion Forum by a user who works with many UK labels, including Indicator:

I'm often told that "surely [insert title] must be available because there's clearly an HD master out there" - but that master may have been created primarily for TV/streaming, which means that certain rights won't necessarily have been cleared. A good example being California Split, which exists in two versions: the full version as signed off by Robert Altman, whose theatrical and broadcast rights were cleared at the time but whose home video rights weren't (since this wasn't an issue in 1974), and a shorter version created by Sony in the mid-2000s for DVD release that removed a couple of tracks after they turned out to be too expensive to license the home video rights for retrospectively.

It appears that broadcasting rights automatically encompass streaming rights, hence the uncut version of California Split being made available for streaming - but, as Indicator found out the hard way, releasing the full version on home video requires shelling out what turned out to be an unrealistically huge sum (and unrealistically huge for Sony, never mind a small British boutique label). And while they could have released the shorter version, they reckoned - no doubt wholly accurately - that people would loudly protest not only because it was a cut version but also because the uncut version is easy enough to see on other platforms, so surely the label must be full of utter blithering incompetents who don't know what they're doing (and so on for several more ranty paragraphs).

And there's no easy way round this, which is why so many wishlists are full of titles that, realistically, are very unlikely ever to be made available on home video.

an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 26 February 2024 18:25 (three months ago) link

This goes before the first paragraph:

Part of the problem is that people think that sub-licensing is simply a case of the rightsholder handing over a master and wishing the project well - but in fact in order to get that master into a commercially releasable state there may be a ton of legal work involved, especially if the film dates from before the home video era when third-party rights may not have been fully cleared.

an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 26 February 2024 18:30 (three months ago) link

three months pass...

okay so I watched Dr. T and the Women and.....what the FUCK was that ending, honestly jawdropping

I didn't mind the movie overall


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.