Come anticipate "The Dark Knight Rises" with *BATSPOILERS*

Because Gary Oldman says it's on:

Oldman, who was at Comic-Con to promote "The Book of Eli," was reportedly asked by a Comic-Con attendee when the next film in the series would begin shooting. He told the crowd that the film would go before cameras in 2010, and then quickly added, "But you didn't hear that from me."

...

This isn't the first time Oldman has possibly spoken out of turn about a forthcoming "Batman" film. While promoting "The Dark Knight," Oldman was quoted as saying, "Maybe we don't need the Joker. Because we'll have the Riddler."

please please please don't use the Riddler

A sinister Riddler or Penguin might be pretty excellent. (I thought both Carrey and DeVito did excellent jobs at the campy versions, although I HATED Carrey's costumer.)

That campy tone would be out of place for the new series. I've heard about other villians, not Riddler. Can't recall their names now. . . Dark Mask, maybe? Something about a mask melted onto the villian's face.

DeVito did way better than I would've expected with the character, but even so there's some basic psychology behind that character that provides for some essential drama (he's an archetypal deformed outcast, etc.) The Riddler's got none of that. He's a one-dimensional gag villain, there's no way to make the character plausible or emotionally engaging, because his central characteristic (that he's a compulsive leaver of convoluted clues) is basically really fucking stupid.

Something about a mask melted onto the villian's face.

holding out hope for Clayface

but then most of the moviegoing public are totally unfamiliar with that character

Looks like I was wrong: Riddler (Johnny Depp) and Penguin (Phillip Seymour Hoffman).

Oh, and Cloris Leachman as Catwoman. Oh! Sorry, I meant Cher, maybe.

If you pare The Riddler down to his core, he's basically the dude who's convinced he is smarter than everyone else around him to the degree where he arrogantly thinks he can leave riddles that, when deciphered, will tell people exactly what he's doing but that the people opposed to him are too stupid to figure them out in time. Add onto that some more realistic trappings like maybe the "Die Hard With A Vengeance" diversion idea where the riddles actually lead people AWAY from him rather than towards him and you've got more than enough meat to make a more plausible version of the character than you would expect given his comic book silliness.

probably not going to happen, but I thought that the guy playing Scarecrow in the first one was the best part of this whole franchise ... why doesn't he get a whole movie?

Uh, he got most of the first one and a minor chunk of the second, what more do you want!

Depp as The Riddler also opens up an entire avenue for the character to get over on a combination of intellect and charm, making him more plausible as well.

zack galifinakis as the riddler and seth rogen as the penguin

eh, just seemed like he was on the periphery of the first one (main baddie was Liam Neeson, right?) and was barely in the second. xpost

If you pare The Riddler down to his core, he's basically the dude who's convinced he is smarter than everyone else around him to the degree where he arrogantly thinks he can leave riddles that, when deciphered, will tell people exactly what he's doing but that the people opposed to him are too stupid to figure them out in time

why are you talking shit about Morbs when he's not around?

If it's The Riddler, I expect the moviemakers to take the character to an evil, twisted place (the way they did with The Joker, who was -- admittedly -- a much more menacing character than The Riddler was, but The Riddler could be a wiry, insane little villian too, with the right script and actor).

BTW, Scarecrow was awesome, and they should have given him a bigger role.

Sorry if I'm (more) incoherent (than usual). On vacation. Had a drink.

Looks like I was wrong: Riddler (Johnny Depp) and Penguin (Phillip Seymour Hoffman).

― Daniel, Esq.

please those were "rumored" since TDK went into production. How can they have villains chosen and cast before they have a writer and director signed on?

yeah, biggest laugh/biggest scare in the whole series for me is that "would you like to see my mask" scarecrow scene ...

I did not think Scarecrow was a minor character in "Batman Begins" at all!

So, Depp is going from the Mad Hatter to The Riddler. I think that Depp needs a more low-key role...something that shows he's still ADEPPT at doing a more nuanced, subtle thing. Not another larger-than-life weirdo. It's getting stale. How about Paul Giammatti (spelling?) as the Penguin?

as a villain, I definitely liked the Scarecrow more than Ras Al Guhl... but it would seem weird to resort to him as the central villain for the third film, would be kinda taking a step backward/treading water.

I did not think Scarecrow was a minor character in "Batman Begins" at all!
not minor, but certainly not the center of the action in the way the joker was ...

BTW, I saw The Riddler, at his core, as a paranoid, hyperactive, insecure socoipath. To me, the riddles were a gimmick that fed his ego, and helped him deal with his insecurities and a constant sense of dread and paranoid. To me, he was Batman's most unhinged, insane enemy (now, obv., I think of The Joker in that role, but mostly b/c of the movies).

he was a guy in a question mark costume who told riddles

fuckin english majors!

I think the Joker should be in it if only for one scene, like they did for Scarecrow in Dark Knight. A Johnny Depp cameo as the Joker would be pretty awesome I think.

Dan/Daniel - I would assume they would make the Riddler a darker/more twisted character as well, (certainly the rich tradition of films with serial killers leaving compulsive clues behind - se7en, Zodiac, tons of others - springs to mind), but they would really have to make the character into a violent psychopath who's not in control of his behavior for that to work... and that's already such ridiculous, well-travelled ground that I don't think it would be particularly satisfying. That would basically make it a Dirty Harry movie. With costumes.

x-posts

I mean I can see it now...

Gordon: Batman! There's a mysterious serial killer on the loose and he's left clues behind, scrawled in blood on the wall!
Batman: I'm on my way

Me: zzzzzzz

i do not believe these Depp/Hoffman rumours. Too on-the-nose for Nolan.

I remember Mr. Freeze being really awesome on the cartoon Batman show. Scary, tragic.

Even in terms of fictional deaths you're jaded, Shakey Mo.

maybe they'd make the riddler another rich high tech playboy dude but instead of an insane vigilante he's a goofball who steals stuff, i'd be into that

i always liked this guy when i was a kid
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/69/Ventiloquist_000000475.jpg

ha! Pitt should be the riddler, in his Twelve Monkeys guise

would assume they would make the Riddler a darker/more twisted character as well, (certainly the rich tradition of films with serial killers leaving compulsive clues behind - se7en, Zodiac, tons of others - springs to mind), but they would really have to make the character into a violent psychopath who's not in control of his behavior for that to work... and that's already such ridiculous, well-travelled ground that I don't think it would be particularly satisfying. That would basically make it a Dirty Harry movie. With costumes.

wtf are you talking about?

Why can't they take The Riddler in the direction of the "Die Hard" example I gave, namely a smart, ruthless guy who sets up these elaborate riddles and death traps that all lead AWAY from the prosaic-but-audacious-in-size bank robbery that is his real goal? Not everything has to be about psychos eating eyeballs.

also goole OTM: maybe the prosaic turn is to actually keep a lighter tone but make him more of a thrillseeker thief rather than a tortured baby-spiker

ha now i'm waiting for this: the gotham public likes its new lighthearted costumed villain more than its dour costumed protector who, maybe a reality-show celeb media satire vibe (ok no)

Hoffman could do his Capote voice as the Penguin.

Actually, since Batman is taking the fall for the Two-Face rampage and the death of Harvey Dent, maybe you have one villain be the standard crook and the other one be a vigilante going after Batman for being a menace.

Dan's riddler would have to spend most of the movie getting foiled and/or caught then in the finale switcheroo be successful to work as described. That would mean villain wins. Don't know if that would work. Maybe.

Also kudos to danielesque for posting links to rumors from a year ago.

ty, ty.

There were new to me!

I remember Mr. Freeze being really awesome on the cartoon Batman show. Scary, tragic.

yup.

also in this: http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Snow-Dan-Curtis-Johnson/dp/1401212654

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51zyPd08SPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

I'm inclined to think this Depp/Hoffman rumor is bullshit because a) as noted this rumor has been around since before DK was even out, and b) its way more likely that Gyllenhaal will be in the third movie as Catwoman - she's already under contract for three movies, it would fit into the personal transformation/unintended consequences thread of the existing narrative, you don't SEE her die ("cats have 9 lives" lolz). Plus the cat joke/ref in DK.

By all means there could be another villain, but I'll be very surprised if there's no Gyllenhaal as Catwoman.

Depp would be completely non-threatening as the Riddler imo, the best thing about the first two movies was Gary Oldham so as long as he's in the next one i'm happy.

but I'll be very surprised if there's no Gyllenhaal as Catwoman

(a) would look good in costume; (b) would allow her to play the opposite of the character she played in Secretary.

not minor, but certainly not the center of the action in the way the joker was ...

― tylerw, Friday, July 24, 2009 4:17 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

...which was about two-face as much as it was about the joker in exactly the same way as the first one was about ras al ghul as much as it was about the scarecrow!

http://api.ning.com/files/Le3SG5S3b51hIu7izQ0r55geK1-Ac4i6J436InSm0jvY5ENxdjLZvYp5RCxxokTdE*qA782dGgqsudG44zbpUhyiSQlC5SUY/crazy_quilt.jpg

only logical choice imo

Yeah, I mean essentially it just dialed back the quality from TDK to the level of, like, a pretty damned good superhero movie. I'd rank Spider-Man 2 above it, and tie it with maybe Iron Man.

― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, October 9, 2012 7:02 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

baffled at myself for ever expressing this opinion. it's a dull, gray slog that makes no sense thematically as a "makes u think" movie, and bungles several plot moves that would be really crucial to having it pay off as an exciting thrill-ride blockbuster. caught a bit of it on TV the other night and it's just unbearable without the momentum of the first viewing carrying you through. but somehow it's the tedious and irrelevant matthew modine subplot that really drives this home for me - if you can't figure out that that needs to be left on the cutting room floor, how can i have any confidence that any of the thematic garbling is intentional? and this is while they leave out two huge things that could have (a) been great, entertaining setpieces and (b) pay off some kind of character arc for batman - - - showing how the fuck he gets back into occupied, locked-down gotham, and showing him defeat bane in some kind of interesting way that involves tactics even one iota different from what he tried the first time. it seems to come down to, well, catwoman is now on his side rather than on the fence. zzz.

so many blown opportunities, especially after the way that the previous film (though certainly bloated bloated) found ways to give you batman setpieces in the middle of its psychological mind-game crime thriller. even the essentially gratuitous hong kong trip was fun to watch and showed batman doing bat-stuff while playing out the 'above-the-law' theme. frankly this in no way needed to be a 'trilogy,' but there was certainly room left to tell a really cool story here. oh well. i still like bane and catwoman even if the former is really ill-defined (and gets less interesting the more we learn about him). the voice is fun to do, though, everyone's OTM about that.

'the dark knight' was such a sprawling yet fairly coherent and swift movie with these scenes or twists that made reasonable sense, but yeah TDKR is like a TED talk with explosions.

also i said it previously but considering how lived in and gritty the first two films felt it's amazing how this movie just felt like it was on a set with zero going on outside the margins of the screen.

Which is a huge problem when the main story is about a villain taking over a whole city! That's kind of a big deal, I mean they base whole movies on this kind of thing (like, idk, The Siege) but it comes halfway through this one and never feels even remotely real. I'm okay with there not being crowds of bystanders reacting to the big chase seen in the second film, but JGL walking the empty streets of Gotham not only doesn't make sense, it lowers the stakes tremendously - apparently the only people at risk from the bomb are the cops (who probably would have been protected from the bomb by being buried deep underground), one schoolbus of kids, and a bunch of people huddled around Lucius in that one building (which may be the same group of people, I can't remember).

ironic that, iirc, the first two were shot in Chicago and the third in actual Gotham.

wasn't DKR shot in Pittsburgh?

I had convinced myself the first one was Toronto made over and CGI'ed to look like Movie City, the second was barely-disguised Chicago, and the third was not-even-trying-at-all Manhattan.

a terrible, terrible movie, and i'm glad we all finally agree

I have watched this movie twice, and still feel like I don't quite understand the plot.

Things are bad and one must rasp.

And the iDENtiTY of the TRIGger Man is... a MYSTERY!

your problem here stems from assuming that there is an understandable plot imo

This isn't the worst film ever, or even close, but it's probably the most *failed* recent film I can think of in terms of aspirations vs. results. Seems like the dark days before Marvel hit their stride.

nolan's greatest crime was paving the way for zack snyder's reign of terror

At least BvS has trainwreck appeal. DKR is just boring.

they really should have shown Batman getting that giant fire bat symbol ready. using rappelling rope to get into position, taping the outline with painter's tape, spraying layers of flammable coating, etc. probably took him that whole afternoon

I'd settle for seeing him get into the impregnable, sealed-off city, which would have actually made a cool set piece. Between that and the incredibly uninteresting second fight with Bane it's pretty clear this movie was written in like two lazy afternoons and they never went back and thought about anything again, even by the measure of "what would be cool and satisfying in an action-adventure movie?"

just remembered that bruce wayne's devastating spinal injury in this is solved by having some guy punch him really hard in the back

helluva movie

I just checked the Wikipedia page to see how Bruce Wayne overcame his backache and I realized that I'd completely forgotten that Catwoman and Talia Al Ghul were in this thing, and that I'd also forgotten basically the entire movie. And then realized that I don't think I could piece together even a rudimentary summary of any of the three Nolan films. I remember that Morgan Freeman and My Cocaine were in them. And Cillian Murphy (forgot about Scarecrow), and Heath Ledger, of course. Just remembered that Maggie Gyllenhaal replaced Katie Holmes. Ummm...a hospital exploded at some point? Oh, Liam Neeson. Aaron Eckhart. I mostly just remember who was in them. Tom Hardy. What did they do in these things? I don't know. I really don't. Gary Oldman. That football stadium...collapsed, maybe? Sheesh. Oh, Batman made that truck flip over. That was pretty cool. I could probably relate the events of the first Burton Batman minute-by-minute but I guess I probably saw that 852 times as opposed to the one time I saw each of the Nolans.

xpost!!! bizarro!!

We could be doing so much more with this perpetual mind meld, brother.

Maybe its workmanlike lameness is just a tribute to Chuck Dizon

I think Nolan might be the master of completely ephemeral spectacle. Even most bad blockbuster-y movies have at least a scene or two that sticks with me, but I genuinely remember almost nothing about any of his films.

lol so otm.

the first two Burton films are still my favorite

I've enjoyed and often even loved every Nolan movie I've seen on first viewing, eventually I learned that these movies absolutely do not hold up to repeat viewings, or even reminiscing.

We could be doing so much more with this perpetual mind meld, brother.

it's starting to freak me out a little, honestly!

this movie is the biggest pile of shit in the world

The Prestige really stuck with me, and I loved it at the time. Probably doesn't hold up now, but nice to have the Bowie scenes.

Maybe its workmanlike lameness is just a tribute to Chuck Dizon

i dunno if you've checked in with chuck dixon recently (and let's be honest, why would you) but his 'workmanlike lameness' has descended into full-on maga-chuddery over the last few years

Bane voice is the one thing that I still think of from this movie

I was noodling around the house and put on some streaming movies from Amazon, including that Vin Diesel xXx movie from last year, and there's a segment where it seems like they're about to crash this giant military plane. I'm mumbling "crashing this plane... with no survivors!" at the tv and laughing

Bane Irish traveller callout is the best thing about this

And the iDENtiTY of the TRIGger Man is... a MYSTERY!

― Righteous wax chaperone, rotating Wingdings (Doctor Casino), Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:43 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

just started giggling at this

do you guys think that Tom Hardy does the voice around the house when he's talking to his dogs?

bane voice is a gift to humanity, not least because it creeps into so many other tom hardy performances - his slurred cockney muttering in peaky blinders in particular is always teetering on the precipice of full-on bane

dmac otm xxp

Also, what asshole looks at the whole history of Batman and think, "Let's do Knightfall!!!"

the Nolans, obv

Tom hardy hasn't spoken clearly since I pointed out that he is in fact Judi dench in an inflatable muscle skin some years back

Fooling nobody judi

when's the next season of Taboo going to air, can we get Tom back to work on that

Bane's voice and memes is truly the lasting gift of these films.

perhaps also TDKR giving Occupy protesters their mainstream film debut in a film about a billionaire vigilante being our only hope. i wonder if in some weird, twisted way, it actually helped to legitimize the cause to the general public.

No

I'm not sure it put the angry mob in a sympathetic light but I get where you're coming from

Tom hardy hasn't spoken clearly since I pointed out that he is in fact Judi dench in an inflatable muscle skin some years back

eager to refute this obvious nonsense, i google image searched for pictures of dench and hardy together and found nothing

~~x-files theme~~

can't agree about occupy, but i think it's obvious that a series of blockbuster movies about a billionaire vigilante being our only hope put trump in the white house

fwiw i mean "legitimized" as in "This isn't just a thing the news made up, i saw it in Batman"

i think the venn diagram of people aware enough of current events to know about occupy and people who wait for things to show up in their batman movies before giving them credence probably doesn't have a huge amount of overlap, let's put it that way

Ya but in the right gerrymandering system it's just enough

I'm on your schedule, Captain

^^^should replace "otm"

Nolan Batman >>>>>> Burton Batman you are all goths.

just remembered that bruce wayne's devastating spinal injury in this is solved by having some guy punch him really hard in the back

helluva movie

― grim-n-gritty hooty reboot (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 22 January 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

If you'd like a film closer to reality may I point you to Rome, Open City.

Glad to help.

Nolan Batman >>>>>> Burton Batman you are all goths.

― xyzzzz__, Monday, January 22, 2018 9:31 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^i'm on your schedule, cap