is anybody else a recluse

Jeez Jean, I mean I spend way to much time on the computer but man, "no friends", I mean Im not getting much loving myself these days but shit thats just not healthy. Hell Ill be your friend Jean, I just couldnt imagine life with no friends at all. Take it easy.

I went a year like that.

Well, a couple years.

Why is the idea of being a recluse so damn appealing?

Dear jean. Of course you're not the only person like this. I'm kind of like that too. Rarely go out, often spend the whole day home by myself, and i don't answer the phone; and i avoid my neighbors. The reclusive personality, i.e. "anti-social" is partly genetic, I believe; but you have free will and to choose to do something, such as developing outside interests so you can meet like-minded individuals. This forum is a start! Take care.

Well...you also have no punctuation, but that's ok because what ever puncuation I have is always WRONG. I understand about the whole no good/close friends, boyfriend, (and most of all) sex but I don't let it stop me from going out-and I'm not saying not having company keeps you indoors. I just go out by myself and it usually works out just fine. I end up talking to more people. Last Saturday I went to a concert by myself and one of the nicest people I've ever met introduced himself because he figured two loners would get along well. He was right. So I'm with you to a point and then you're on your own-but I think that's the whole idea.

Ah Jean, I've gone through occasional periods like that, but there IS a whole world out there....As Lindsey says:

I just go out by myself and it usually works out just fine. I end up talking to more people.

There is no shame in going to places (or shows) alone. In fact, tis how I met most of the mates I've currently got: went to a show, enjoyed the hell out of it, then started chatting to the person next to me about it. If you're too shy to do that, the Net is a great equaliser: you don't have to impress anyone. [You're here, after all;>]

Tis how I met the other half....

I've done this for 5 years now. I go to work, I work late it takes the edge off the boredom. Ive been able to do lots of things I wouldnt normally have been able to do. My time is completely my own, Im not beholden to anyone elses whims or choices. I admit Ive become very selfish and I dislike the idea of compromising on anything. So now I dont have to. Having said that it is difficult to get back from here. The idea that you can meet people at shows or via the internet seems very distant. I do not use the internet for the purpose of contacting others now anyway. That to some degree does leave me feeling abit concerned..infact rather perversely Im more concerned over the fact I have a constantly empty mailbox than I am over my real life social ineptitude. Perhaps because my lifestyle seems to be so different to the vast majority of people you are likely to come into contact with at shows and even the internet(lets be honest here where as at one time I think the internet was over run by bedroom dwelling loners, everyone uses the bloody thing nowadays) It does seem a rut difficult to get out of. I do have my moments where I do want to move on, and as I get older they are becoming more frequent. Despite the number of responses to this post, I cant help but feel that people do believe that this kind of behaviour is odd and those people who display that behaviour should be avoided.

You betcha - and if I could find a way to make money enough to feed my life, well then it's goodby mr sunshine that's for sure.

Its up to you to ultimately, you just have to ascertain whether YOU think it is weird. Alone time is good, 'passions simmer & resimmer in solitude'- cant remember who said that, anyhoo I think the world can be a bit annoying if not quite alienating you just need to decide how much involvement you want. Just be aware there is a tendency to spiral into further anti social behaviour once you get out of practice. Friends are really cool. Having relationships is a beautiful thing. I dont want to sound overly nanna- ish but speaking to a counsellor just to voice the concerns you have may be something valuable for you, there may be some online. Good luck :)

I dont wish to write off the idea of counsellors altogether. However I saw a professional cognitive counsellor for 3 years they only suggested in varying degrees the same things that have been suggested by people in here. I think ultimately when you are ready to move on you will make the effort, whether it be through work or some other outlet, Ive had my offers to change my lifestyle via work however Ive been unable to bring myself to go along with that.

Yup yup I know counsellors can just be overpaid ears, but I was suggesting the 'objective view of underlying concerns', if that exists.

Another option, I went to an acupuncturist last week for back pain and he said 'I make you happy, think positive things, no more depression' I didnt really think I was depressed, but was tres appreciative of the prick of positivity and it didnt even hurt.

I sometimes am so afraid when weekends come up, I'll do any self-destructive thing possible to make the time go by so I don't have to face the fact that I have no friends, boyfriend,etc. I do mostly stay inside, and it's pretty awful. But where would I go? This isn't a cry for help (I dont' think); I'm able to maintain a certain level and have for some time. But it's far from happiness. Sometimes going outside (except for going to work) really is scary. What a fucked-up thing to say. If you ask me about any of this later, I'll deny it.

but was tres appreciative of the prick of positivity and it didnt even hurt.

I can think of several responses to this (see, I'm better!).

Sean, you genuinely do sound depressed, in the clinical sense. Not that I'm any kind of doctor, but I've suffered from enough of it to recognise some things, such as your avoidance strategies and the fear of going out. I've had a few occasions in the past when I've really struggled to pop out to the shops for food. What you say also reminds me of a depressed friend of mine, and seems to me to be significantly different from what Jean or Reilly are saying. There is nothing wrong at all with being reclusive, but you plainly are very unhappy with how things are for you. A doctor and antidepressants really might have a positive impact, but I guess you might also need to do things that lead to practical improvements. Actually, taking part in boards like this seems like one of those things, in a small way - and could be a bigger way if you used it to meet people (I don't know your location, so that may not be on - especially if you are on Saturn). I feel uneasy offering advice, as I'm hopelessly unqualified for the role (I don't mean exams and official qualifications - though I lack any of any relevance here - but in my nature), but I can't entirely keep my mouth shut when I see someone apparently going through some of the very horrible things I've been through myself.

I think a few people don't understand that I am a recluse by choice. I don't want to go out and meet people that is what I am trying to avoid! I don't have sex because I don't like it just not on my list of things I enjoy and I will never have a boyfriend because I am too strange for this world and not having sex pretty much wraps that up but I can cope I'm not unhappy about it. I don't need to see a counselor I am cool with myself and I don't want to change. It's not that I am trying to avoid all people its just I only want contact with people when I want it and that is not very often. I am a recluse I live in my own little world and I love it!! I see so many people walking around kissing the worlds ass and being unhappy about it but they are so afraid of not being liked so they just keep following the program. I'm not ashamed of going places alone its just I don't want to be in those places. Yes I would like to find somebody who is just like me yes to stay in the house in our own little world. Why would I want to go out I have a computer, tv, vcr, dvd, video games, stereo, exerise equipment and plenty of food in the frig.

I would have done this last summer without you fabbo (I'm reclaiming this word) people on ILE.

And counsellors suck (I've only been to one once "We don't give you answers. We help you find the answer for yourselves." What's the fucking point of that?)

Jean, I think you just need to meet some cool people that you do want to be around (most people are ace, you just have to assume that before you meet them and present yourself in that way). You are going to be so fucking depressed after x years of this, and then regret it horribly.

i don't consider myself a recluse but i admit one who lacks friends and significant other..i want to meet more people but i hate mindless chitchat and feel that it's a waste of time cos people won't understand or relate to me unless there is familiarity...i'm detached to my situation but sometimes fear i will regret everything when it's too late to do anything about it..inevitably i will brush it off but it really is just a vicious cycle that ends up eating me up inside...i too hate the weekends as well as struggling to find responses when coworkers ask "so what are your plans for this weekend?" or "so how was your weekend?" when the answer is the same every week, "absolutely nothing with nobody"...though it is somewhat of an escape from a soul sucking job that is leading me nowhere...

I'm able to maintain a certain level and have for some time. But it's far from happiness.

Sean Like Martin I dont have any real idea about this sort of stuff but can relate to your post. "I just want to be a happy man!" Pretty universal desire and from those who have loved and then lost it just seems so much harder- no Im not bitter or twisted, but I was pretty unhappy with my lot and life. Im not so sure chat forums or prozac are necesarily the answer. I dont have the anwser, for me it was just something I went through and I was pretty conscious about it all. You sound pretty "self aware" of your situation, so I wouldnt ruch to get a quick fix. I just woke up one day and thought "fuck this shit" I dont really know why or how I reached this decision. I think suffering can be good for us and is even necesaary, but then again Im Catholic freak so go figure. Hope you wont be offended but youre in my prayers Kiwi

Ha! I really know how to offend "Sean like Martin" whoops: Sean

Like Martin....

i can't really understand being a recluse. i wither wihtout social contact. it bugs me when people who are my friends become reclusive, because for me friendship can't survive without contact (any kind of contact - phone, in person, mail, e-mail etc). i wonder if some recluses realise that? do they not get, that if you pull away from people for an extended period of time, when you decide not to be a recluse anymore people aren't just gonna accept you back into their lives. anyway, i do have some friends with reclusive tendencies who realise this and thus try hard to maintain contact.

why don't you want to be around people, jean?

You are going to be so fucking depressed after x years of this, and then regret it horribly.

That isn't necessarily true. My tendencies in this area are getting worse but I feel good about it because I have interests/activities to absorb me. The problem with having no friends is you may need help some day. Where will you turn? That's the price you may pay for the freedom of having no-one bothering you.

First i am not going to decide not to be a recluse anymore I am a recluse always have been. I don't want to be around people because I have nothing in common with the everyday person they babble on about things I can not relate to and of course they can not relate to me when I talk about things I like they say OH then just sort of walk away and look back at me in horror. Could you be my friend I only go out on cloudy rainy or foggy days the rain feels so good almost like a cleansing and the beauty of the greyness that the fog puts on everything is breath taking and the sun makes me quite ill I wear dark clothing only I hate colors I dye my hair black(i love everything black) black eye make-up nails I'm only attracted to transvestite males and forget that bbq I hate meat the look and smell of it and if I see someone eating meat well to me it looks evil. I like the look of gothic that is what you will see at my house and it makes me laugh to see people go about their lives like they are really getting somewhere in life because they don't realize that they are the walking dead each day that we live is one day closer to our death we are going nowhere but in the ground so I don't want to hear about your garden and your parties, camping, ball games etc. you bore me I'm much deeper than that and you can't and won't handle it. So be it and be on your way I am not for this world and it is not for me and yes I believe in God and the after life and pray for forgiveness that Im not doing my part on this earth for God for I can not relate to the people on this earth and do know that its only temporary I will die and the next chapter will begin.

you are quite talkative for a recluse

A recluse with a speed addiction.

It seems logical to stay inside if that's how the outside world appears to you, but then what's logically so much better about the inside of your house - I mean, inherently? I'm not trying to talk you out of it, I'm just curious. Like if anyone asked me why I get reclusive I would immediately mention anxiety but you specify that's not your reason for withdrawing. You seem to be saying 'all earthly things are meaningless, so what's the point becoming involved with them.' Do you believe that things will be meaningful in heaven because they will endure eternally?

hmmm im having a very strange problem with my gothicblue email all of these old messages i have deleted in the past week are invading my inbox like cockroaches and i cant find my new messages so anybody who sent me a private message to my gothicblue email could you send it to my yahoo address...

i just started on some new prozac form, need to find out yet if/how it works

the black fingernail... wasn't that syd james dressed as an 18th century aristocrat saving the french from the guillotine?

don't lose your head

Jean, why don't you go to goth clubs? there are lots of people like you at them. That's if your thing is not liking people who are different from you rather than not liking people per se.

One should always bear in mind that no matter how unique one might seem, there are always millions of people in the world who are pretty much the same as you.

I find the idea of actually liking being a recluse disturbing... when I was younger I had no friends. It was shit. Now I have friends and people I can talk to and hang out with, and it's great.

Some of this absolutely has to be fake. Especially the punctuation.

I would certainly agree with this last answer, I've to some extent enjoyed being a recluse, taking the time to do what I want. However it is very much a double edged sword. I dislike the fact I have no one to bouce ideas off, or ask someones opinion. In the same breath I find the idea of mixing with other people so difficult now and completely at odds with the way Ive conditioned myself. I think the very idea that being a recluse is a great lifestyle choice rather odd. No matter how'out there' you put yourself, you will meet your match at some point along the way.

Im sure I will eventually run across such people..and that is a thought which is constantly in the back of my mind.

A recluse with a speed addiction.

You and me both, sister.

I'm sitting here at home, I have to be at work in about an hour and a half, and I feel like absolute shit. Who was it above that mentioned not being able to stand the weekend? That is me all the way... when it's Friday afternoon I'm scared, because I know that I'm going to have nothing to do, and much worse, no one to do it with. I could clean up around the apartment, maybe meet my cousin for lunch if he's free, go to Amoeba, and then maybe fill up enough hours until the evening when I can go out and get drunk by myself at a bar (feeling good cuz I know how fucking handsome I am and half the guys there want me and how sick am I but I'm not even joking when I say this), but more likely I'll realize I've got all this time ahead of me and not be able to take it and call my dealer and get fucked up and speed away my weekend doing stuff that I'm not going to admit here or anywhere probably. It's pretty sad that at some level I find this preferable to actually facing my life, which is lonely but really not that bad and I don't know how I got this far wrong, but I did and I think I might need help straightening things out.

I have so much going on at work right now, and I wasted so much time last week that I need to be there all day today really on the ball, and it's clear that's not going to happen. There's this "outreach to the community" place near my house that I always assumed was like counseling services and stuff; I went to the website before coming to ILX and sure enough that's what it is (it's not free like I guessed, though)... I hate the thought of 12-step meetings and all that, but I'm hoping I can go to something this morning. I realize I may not be able to go to something or talk to anyone before I finally go to work, but I'm hoping. It's a big step for me, because going out into the open and admitting you're having a speed problem isn't like drinking too much, you can go to an elegant restaurant or classy party and order a cocktail or a glass of wine; you sure don't break out the crack pipe. It's shady, scuzzy and embarassing, and once I walk in there I can't pretend in front of whoever's there that it didn't happen and I didn't go in. Obviously, I know nobody's going to judge me. But I (falsely, I know) put a lot of my self-worth in looking and seeming to be really together and professional, and I hate the thought of admitting it's false.

If I go to meetings or whatever they are, maybe I can plan on doing that, and be able to say, well tonight I can at least go somewhere, and not have to worry about being all frantic and alone.

On of the things Jean said reminded me of one of the most self-defeating thought patterns in my life; that of thinking I'm not like anyone else, or hardly anyone else, that most other people couldn't possibly understand me or have anything in common with me or to offer me, and even to this day I feel that way a lot even while knowing that I'm so very wrong. Maybe if I convince myself I'm so special and different, I will have a good excuse why I don't have any friends; I mean, who could possibly be good enough?? Maybe the reality is that whole thing is just a defence mechanism from being too scared to really take the risk of being out there and trying to forge relationships and running the risk of rejection (not based on my looks, of course, I can always peddle my sorry ass that way). I don't mean Jean feels this way, but it made me think about myself.

I guess I am a self-analytical and self-aware person, I don't know if I will follow through on any path for self-improvement but I hope I do. I do promise that once 9:00 am comes, I will call this place I mentioned and see what services are offered, and I'll go there if something is happening this morning. I'll email work and say I'm coming in late, and I'll go in later feeling shitty and looking haggard, but at least be able to tackle a few things and make an appearance.

Ok, I've been typing for too long now, and if anyone's made it this far I'm amazed. I could say a lot more, but I've said plenty as it is. You people don't know me, this whole interweb could be a crack-pipe dream, I'm confessing or speaking to no one. But I'm going to speak to real people later. Good for me, eh?

Personal to Jean: open your curtains.

Hmm, well despite what the counseling center's website says, I've called and they're closed Mondays.

Hey, Sean, at least some of us are reading. :-) I can't offer much more than a friendly voice, I fear, but I hope you find your answer to all this -- it's a situation that sounds truly imprisoning.

Sean that's no excuse not to try again next year. But forildo, get in there, man. It sounds like you know you're ready.

Tracer is right. This kind of step seems much more valuable than any amount of counselling (as has been said, most of them are useless fools), in that it is you doing something that addresses what you don't like about your life even before any of their courses kick in. Good luck.

I can only echo the sentiment and good wishes of Ned, Tracer and Martin.

How do people get into these situations?

Wow...I am incredibly frustrated with a couple of these messages. Not like aww, isn't that sad but more like ergh! I had a phase like that but thankfully it has passed.

Jean it seems to me that you are still using the common(?) world to justify (word choice?) your life. Introducing yourself by saying I have no ===, no ===, and no === is just as undesirable as talking about baseball games, gardens, or what kind of new haircut you want. Negative positive, positive negative. Truth is probably no one on the other side of society gives a damn, the same way you feel about them. I'm guilty of this too. I did all that "not for me" stuff without the hope of an afterlife or the benefit of having the Goth support group. I was angrier than I interpret you being and I still moved on, perhaps that was because I didn't have a support group of any sort. I just get pissed off at all these us-and-them mentalities from "weird kids" and "preppie kids"-whatever you want to call the groups. There is a game that can be played in this world and perhaps you should play it or just quit bitching. (Everyone bitches.) That probably sounds a little harsh but you can just disregard it. Whew, I feel better now but I'm also dreading any responses I might get.

Anyone who wants to seek help for any sort of undesirable behavior has my personal hoorahs.

good luck to sean.

Low self esteem has a lot do with it. As shitty as feeling lonely and miserable is, it's easier than putting yourself out there into some uncomfortable social situation. Going out, calling someone up, meeting people all require effort and carry the risk of rejection. The more you exercise those social muscles, the easier it gets. And more important, the effort you put in will come back to you. You just have to initiate, and keep initiating, until something clicks.

[I] do know that its only temporary I will die and the next chapter will begin.

But how do you know that? It might not begin. Or what if an afterlife exists, but it demands socializing with others to an even GREATER extent than is demanded in this world?

Surely it's better to face the challenges and enjoy as fully as possible the pleasures of THIS life (which may be all we get, after all), in the here and now...

Oh so now I'm a bitch(with bad punctuation) well you will never read another word from me I'm taking greenspun off of my list I see I don't belong here I'm sorry if I upset anybody I just wanted to reach out to other recluses I wish everybody (who poured their heart out on this thread) better days ahead.

With all due respect, Jean, no one called you a bitch. Being accused of "bitching" is not the same thing, and I think you know that. Though, if this is an indication of how sensitive you are, then leaving ILE might save you more pain.

I'm all for welcoming self-penned recluses in open arms (in this manner of protocol anyway), but if you're difficult to even welcome, what's the point?

I just wanted to reach out to other recluses

do you like being a recluse?

I think one thing with this thread is people don't like the idea that others might be self-sufficient and not need human contact for their own well-being, hence catty responses. Thinking of all the people who for whatever reason are denied human contact makes me wonder about people who deliberately choose to be alone. But hey, one thing about being human is being able to make choices about how to live your life, and what's good for most of us will not be good for all.

Caveat delivered in good faith - deciding to withdraw from the world is fine, provided you remember that re-entry becomes progressively more difficult, and when you come out of your shell the world will have moved on. That's the tough part.

FE FI FOE FUM I Smell A Wanker.....today is the day i fuck off from here so anymore messages to me will hit a brick wall.....THERES NO PLACE LIKE HOME (click click click)

I think one thing with this thread is people don't like the idea that others might be self-sufficient and not need human contact for their own well-being, hence catty responses.

Well, I can definitely relate to some of what Jean is saying, maybe from the opposite side of the fence. For me (I hope I don't come off as arrogant with any of what I'm saying), I consider myself to have a VERY active social life, to the point that it's actually overwhelming to me. Like when I move in two weeks, I am going to have to let about 30 or so 'real life' friends (with whom I keep regular contact individually) know where I'm moving to. But despite all this, I am an extremely shy, introverted person, the farthest thing from a social butterfly: "social, not exactly by choice" ;). I hate going to loud parties where I don't know a majority of the people; it really is like going to the dentist for me, and requires the same amount of energy and psychological preparation. And often I find a lot of the people you meet at these are so wrapped up in themselves, their families, their accomplishments, you soon feel like you are being forced to watch somebody's home movies just talking to them. The key to this is I am careful to calculate the I/ME:YOU/HE/SHE/IT ratio when I talk to someone for the first time. If they are too egocentric for my tastes, I'm outta there. I also don't really like talking on the phone for a prolonged period of time with anyone, had to get dragged kicking and screaming into purchasing a cellular phone :), and when I get home (which is my sacred sanctuary from the battering ocean of socialness of my 9-to-5 life), I cringe whenever I see the answering machine blinking. From that part, I can relate to some of what Jean is saying, as I think many of us would.

But where I would largely not agree with Jean's (Jean, I am not meaning to sound aggressive or adversarial to you) view, would be that ultimately, despite the overwhelmingness, I am truly grateful and feel really lucky and blessed to have/know the friends and family I have/know, and would rather I had them than not have them, because they are all special people to me.

Also, what I would say to Jean is, sure, you see the people who kiss the worlds ass and are unhappy because they are so concerned that people like them. But do you also see the corresponding people who genuinely love their interactions in the world and are quite happy and secure in their dealings with others? Because whether you like it or not, the fact is they exist, and I would guess in equal numbers to those who kiss-ass. Also, sure, there are people who don't know anything beyond baseball, gardening, hair cuts, whatever. On the other hand, there are other people out there who might have more than this in their conversational repertoire (maybe you might find it's the very same person, once you talk to them more and more, beyond the invariable shallowness of opening small talk); and often, these people might not look or act anything like you on the surface. I'm willing to bet good money that I don't look anything like you at all (I would look to you like a 'preppie', I venture :) ), yet I still know something about goth bands and am open to learning more. Or perhaps the person really does have totally different likes than you (baseball, gardening, etc.)--but maybe you'll find their passions are more interesting or have more to them than you initially gave them credit for. I guess my point is not EVERYONE is boring, shallow, intolerant, etc. and the only way that you would find out who is and who isn't is by talking to them. You say you want someone who is just like you, to stay at home in your 'own little world'---how would you find them? If they are in accordance with your ideals, than right now wouldn't they be at home in their 'own little world', not desiring contact with anyone else? Again, I hope I don't sound aggressive or mean, Jean. It's just I think there's another side of the coin that you should consider...

OH LOOK MOMMY that girl won't play with us Come away from her child we don't like people like that.... GO SUCK YOUR MAMMAs TIT... leave us recluse alone you stupid cunts now here comes the blah blah blah

Perhaps some of us were mistaken in reading the initial question as something of a cry for help when it's now clear it was something more akin to a boast. Fair enough; she's made her decision.

Joe made some excellent points about making assumptions about people based on their appearance. It's a typical human trait to do this, but I know I've done it, without deliberately trying to be exclusive or mean, to the extent that I end up giving far too people a chance. I'm not just talking about clothes or haircuts here; I have more thoughts about this which I may post on a later thread.

Finally, thank you to everyone who wished me well, I really appreciate it. Hopefully yesterday's lengthy post wasn't too disturbing. I'm feeling fine today, albeit slammed with projects here at work, and am working on an appropriate course of action to prevent further disaster in my life.

Love you!

You can be self-sufficient and have a social life. One does not exclude the other.

it's now clear it was something more akin to a boast

No-one's immune to the need for attention seeking.

Jean, is this thread so that you can tell us all how happy you are living your reclusive lives, or are you looking for other recluses? If you want to get in touch with other recluses - why? doesn't that negate the point of the whole recluse thing? Or is it that you are seeking people who, like you, are different from the rest of society - your reclusiveness being driven by a sense of difference to the rest of us rather than a liking for the solitary life per se?

My mention of goth clubs wasn't facetious, they are full of people who see themselves as somehow removed from the rest of society.

"People are shit, I hate people, people hate me, I can live without people, people are shit, PLEASE TELL ME HOW GOOD AND BRAVE I AM FOR MANAGING TO BE ALONE."

It's a crock.

Nick is saying what I was thinking all along

its a crock alright. i hope so, i just can't handle the arrogance.

GoThIcBlUe ArE YoU ElViS

Post of the week.

OuCh ThOsE BrIcKs HuRt!

Where's your head at? Where's your head at? Wheres your head at? Don't let the walls cave in on you We can live on live on without you You get what you give that much is true Don't let the walls cave in on you You turn the world away from you Where's your head at? You have now found yourself trapped in the incomprehensible maze Where's your head at?