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Pesach is upon us. Who up in this bitch is keeping Kosher for Passover?

quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:38 (fourteen years ago) link

Nope. My excuse is that my wife wouldn't tolerate it, but really it's me, not her.

otm in new york (G00blar), Monday, 6 April 2009 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Yep. With family for Passover and they're huge kosher-keepers, so we're also kosher-keepers by default.

Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm all for eating some matzah, but no way I'm koshering my kitchen.

Also: not actually Jewish, so technically not obligated to do shit.

quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link

i'm invited to a house for passover where they'll be drinking and smoking lots of trees

Surmounter, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Haha, ditto. Possibly the same one.

What does koshering actually involve, anyway? I'm vaguely aware of boiling water and possibly some earth or dirt or something? I know you can kosher stainless steel sinks and dishwashers etc but not ceramic or enamel ones. It must be enough of a pain that people cover their counters for Passover rather than deal with it.

strut around with a candle looking for leavened shit

s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Okay so I read this thread title to the tone/pace of the sample starting Front 242's 'Welcome to Paradise.'

Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:58 (fourteen years ago) link


My parents fill their sinks with boiling water, then drop a burning hot brick into the water in the sink until it overflows on the counter. I think that's how they kasher their sinks. I know one guy who uses a blowtorch.

Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 15:06 (fourteen years ago) link


s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 15:06 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh yeah. You can't really blow-torch the Corian, can you. I guess I assumed you'd have to get a rabbi in for the ritual re-purification. Is that actually a DIY project? Cool!

We got offered a couple of really cheap apartments in a Lubavitch nabe, until they found out my roomie has a dog. But I specified that we wouldn't be a religious household, or keep kosher, and they were like, whatever, we can take care of that. So...really? The oven, too?

Self-cleaning oven.

Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 15:12 (fourteen years ago) link

And yeah, this stuff can all be done DIY style. As long as you know the laws, there's nothing you need a Rabbi for.

Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 15:13 (fourteen years ago) link

Awesome. I do love the endless ingenuity, practical AND theological.

I'm celebrating Passover by saying something about it on the internet.

Zero Transfats Waller (Oilyrags), Monday, 6 April 2009 15:41 (fourteen years ago) link

we have some matzah in the house and will probably be going to a seder. I don't bother with the kosherness, I ain't wandering in any stupid desert.

This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 15:52 (fourteen years ago) link

i really like passover, am i crazy?

cutty, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:04 (fourteen years ago) link

no its usually my fave

s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:11 (fourteen years ago) link

i bought kosher for passover coke yesterday. it's delicious.

right thread, Ned (mizzell), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:14 (fourteen years ago) link

ooh nice

s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:16 (fourteen years ago) link

it's like thanksgiving, in april, without bread

cutty, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:18 (fourteen years ago) link


I am going to a seder (my first), but because the hostess can't do it on the usual night(s), we're doing it on the 18th. Pseudo-seder. But I'm still psyched. Might try to sort of keep kosher-ish just to see what it's like.

Ooooh and I'm in charge of making charoset for the pseudo-seder, so recipes pls!

quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:24 (fourteen years ago) link

lol i read that coke thing really wrong.

tehresa, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Also: how much hebrew vs. english at your seder?

quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:25 (fourteen years ago) link

I never understood why anything other than unleavened bread is necessary though? I mean no bread as a symbol/reminder of events passed makes sense, keeping kosher out of respect for the period I can see, but, like not being allowed to eat corn? What's up with that?

mehlt, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:32 (fourteen years ago) link

um are you unfamiliar with the passover story or what

This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:33 (fourteen years ago) link

oh snap

s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:35 (fourteen years ago) link

During Passover, Jews refrain from eating chometz: anything that contains barley, wheat, rye, oats, and spelt, and is not cooked within 18 minutes after coming in contact with water. No leavening is allowed. This signifies the fact that the Hebrews had no time to let their bread rise as they made a hurried escape from Egypt.
Jews of different backgrounds do not observe all of the same rules. Ashkenazi Jews, who come from Europe (most Jews in America), also avoid corn, rice, peanuts, and legumes as they are also used to make bread and may have other grains mixed in. These items are known as kitniyot.

mizzell, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:35 (fourteen years ago) link

I thought it was anything that swells in contact with water? Or something like that. No corn syrup, in any case, which gives us delicious REAL SUGAR COKE.

The Torah instructs a Jew not to eat (or even possess) chometz all seven days of Passover (Exodus 13:3). "Chometz" is defined as any of the five grains (wheat, spelt, barley, oats, and rye) that came into contact with water for more than 18 minutes. This is a serious Torah prohibition, and for that reason we take extra protective measures on Passover to prevent any mistakes.

Which brings us to another category of food called "kitniyot" (sometimes referred to generically as "legumes"). This includes rice, corn, soy beans, string beans, peas, lentils, peanuts, mustard, sesame seeds and poppy seeds. Even though kitniyot cannot technically become chometz, Ashkenazi Jews do not eat them on Passover. Why?

The Smak (Rabbi Moshe of Kouchi, 13th century, France) explains that products of kitniyot appear like chometz products. For example, it can be hard to distinguish between rice flour (kitniyot) and wheat flour (chometz). Therefore, to prevent confusion, all kitniyot was prohibited.

mizzell, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:40 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm throwing myself in with the Sephardic camp this year.

quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Take a Hot Dog
and make it Kosher

the drummer from the hilarious 1990's Britpop act Gay Dad (wanko ergo sum), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh makes more sense, and yes, I know the story, but I'm wondering why go so much further than just bread, I mean, Matzah is just unleavened bread, still has wheat in it and all, it's not like they didn't have enough time to cook pasta when escaping Egypt.

mehlt, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Keep hearing the spoken intro to "One Step Beyond" when I see this thread title.

•--• --- --- •--• (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Which is to say, eating corn is a long ways away from letting bread rise.

mehlt, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Keep hearing the spoken intro to "One Step Beyond" when I see this thread title.

Don't eat that - EAT THIS

This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:51 (fourteen years ago) link

passover is a great holiday.

BUT, the Haggadahs have not arrived in the mail from my grandfather yet and I'm also getting a bit nervous about seating... also, anyone have a good veggie matzoh ball soup recipe? vegetarians certainly won't eat teh brisket.

ian, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:55 (fourteen years ago) link

good god how do vegetarians ever survive during Passover without the grains?

quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:58 (fourteen years ago) link

apparently quinoa is ok.

mizzell, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:59 (fourteen years ago) link

good to qui-know-a

rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Seven days of quinoa and matzah sounds . . . constipating.

quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Can we turn this thread also into a list of all of the awesome things about being jewish in general?

quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:01 (fourteen years ago) link

1. Chosen people.
2. Latkes

ian, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:02 (fourteen years ago) link

3. Talmud

ian, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:03 (fourteen years ago) link

4. hot sabbath sex

This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:03 (fourteen years ago) link

5. Neuroses

This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:04 (fourteen years ago) link

6. control of the media/money

good god how do vegetarians ever survive during Passover without the grains?

― quincie, Monday, April 6, 2009 11:58 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

This may explain my increased secularism that started around the time I became vegetarian.

mehlt, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:04 (fourteen years ago) link

6. Noodle kugel

quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Not to shift focus away from geo and back to politics, but I've been pretty bummed by the anti Jewish stuff being stirred up all over the place. Anger at Israel always seems to potentiate hatred of Jews. To be fair, it's my fault for clicking on the bait, but ignoring it doesn't mean it's not there. I guess it's always there. My own opinions don't matter one way or another if my synagogue still needs to up security, or my kids don't feel safe at school, or if I'm ever confronted in the street somewhere. Not that I expect that (last thing) to happen, but the fact that I have to even consider it makes me queasy, just as Trump's election made me ponder several "what if?" scenarios.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 13:54 (three weeks ago) link

It's real, and it's a bummer.

felicity, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 16:33 (three weeks ago) link

i recognize that israel isn't supposed to be representative of all judaism, but when i see sentiments expressed here along the lines of wishing israel would cease to exist, it feels a bit more than the usual anger at the Israeli gov't and military. maybe i'm just overly sensitive.

i'm planning the kid's bar mitzvah(!) now and i'll be real, deep in my mind there are thoughts i have about security and safety, even though it's not at a temple, and it's not like it's going to be advertised online or anything. i just want him to be safe thru life with all this bullshit. i don't even want him to hear anything. he's got an irish last name, his mom is jewish, so i suspect he'll hear some bullshit in passing from others in the future who don't know his background.

omar little, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 19:19 (three weeks ago) link

i'm not going to lie, i've been struggling w/ the reconciliation of the following two thoughts

1. anti-semitism is real. fear of mass murder in america is real. fear of being mass murdered for a specific reason in america is real.
2. so far, retribution in america regarding this conflict has been entirely flowing in one direction. thankfully no one has died yet on american soil but the people in our country who are being harassed, driven underground, fired, expelled -- in some cases through the will of extremely powerful people -- are those expressing empathy, sympathy, support etc for palestine

the fear of plausible violence is real, the fear of "what if" is real, and yet i'm also looking at a number of incidents of actualized material damage against people's lives in america, and i'm not seeing many (any?) cases of the person in question being pro-israel. i know a kid at cornell got arrested for threatening to shoot up a hillel there.

is the answer simply that, in the parlance of the day, i need to "hold two thoughts in my head at once"? feelings of danger aren't a competition. i repeat this to myself. and yet i have trouble reconciling all of this w/ the fact that i look at what's happening in america and i see, actually, that the punishment is being handed out swiftly and harshly to, in blunt and crude language, not jews

the thing i've read on this topic that sticks with me is this quote from nan goldin about the arforum editor who was fired because the guy who runs bed bath and beyond made it happen (i think the fact of powerful people leveraging their power is an important distinction here as well):

“I have never lived through a more chilling period,” said Goldin, who is one of the most celebrated living photographers and signed the open letter that called for Palestinian liberation and a cease-fire. “People are being blacklisted. People are losing their jobs.”

honestly, i worry about this a lot more than i worry about my family or my friends being shot or attacked for being jewish. but the fear of being shot or attacked is stressful. so again i guess i return to whether the answer is simply to accept both of these facts, or whether my discomfort w/ the imbalance is real/justified etc

slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 19:56 (three weeks ago) link

so far, retribution in america regarding this conflict has been entirely flowing in one direction

incorrect, my friend



Pierre Delecto, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 20:06 (three weeks ago) link

I'm sure he'll correct me if I am wrong, but by 'retribution' I think Jordan was thinking of institutional punishments meted out for political positions, as opposed to sporadic and mostly anonymous incidents of threats or vandalism.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 20:21 (three weeks ago) link

that is correct, yes. i think it's an important distinction. though it obviously does not make instances of i.e. vandalism less real or that store owner's fears of violence less legitimate. but yes.

slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 20:27 (three weeks ago) link

am i nervous about the possibility of rising anti-semitic (and islamophobic) tensions in the wake of this crisis? yes. am i annoyed, nay infuriated, by the main character syndrome that influences people in my community to post something like, "would you hide me in your attic?" in the midst of tens of thousands of people being killed by israeli airstrikes? also yes.

is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 20:40 (three weeks ago) link

I haven't posted anything about any of this anywhere because I just really don't know how I feel about so many different aspects of this and find it hard to process, but one thing that has been bugging me, regarding things like that Nan Goldin quote above and cancelling...I mean, generally I've been totally pro cancel culture. Somebody does something really offensive or wrong, I'm fine not hearing from them again. I know that's a huge simplification, but I haven't complained about the "chilling" effect of cancel culture over the last few years, in regards to things like metoo. What I worry about now is what seems like a quick knee-jerk "cancelation" of institutional punishment for people who, in my limited awareness, didn't seem to do anything more extreme than voice criticism of Israeli govt policies and actions.

As a Jew, or jew-ish, person, I've thought a lot about the classic stereotypes of Jewish control of media, of industry, of hollywood etc. The idea that any professor or artist who signs a letter calling for a cease-fire should immediately be fired, and that it is happening, seems crazy to me. I just looked at the letter now and it seems like they made the unforced error of not first stating how horrific Oct 7th was and have amended the letter to include such a statement.

Is it ridiculous to think anti-semites can just gleefully use all of this cancellation as further proof that Jews control everything?

dan selzer, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 21:39 (three weeks ago) link

I think the refusal of certain anti-semitic tropes to disappear has less to do with anything that may seemingly validate them and more to do with the fact that they are constantly circulated as anti-semitic tropes no matter what anybody says or does.

I have seen a handful of people canceled or fired or whatever for statements that went past anti-Israel and creeped awfully close if not right up against anti-Semitic, but fortunately they have been a minority, as far as I can tell. I think there have been a lot more people canceled or fired or shamed or whatever for statements whose supposed failures hinge largely on the difference between the use of "and" and "but," though at the same time, if I was going to voluntarily, publicly wade into such a minefield, I would be careful with my words. I've seen a few very deft but still moving statements that show the difference a little extra care and effort can make, whatever the intent.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 22:07 (three weeks ago) link

if I was going to voluntarily, publicly wade into such a minefield, I would be careful with my words. I've seen a few very deft but still moving statements that show the difference a little extra care and effort can make, whatever the intent.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, November 1, 2023 6:07 PM (seventeen minutes ago)

"be intentional and careful with what you say regarding controversial subjects" is good general life advice but tbh... you are spelling out the concept of a chilling effect in this post

slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 22:42 (three weeks ago) link

at the very least, it shouldn't be in dispute that the punishments so far for a lack of "a little extra care and effort" have been far outsized in relation to the mistakes

slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 22:45 (three weeks ago) link

I don't mean "be careful" like a threat or anything, just, like, take care to make sure you're not misunderstood, if that's a concern.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 November 2023 00:30 (three weeks ago) link

But yeah, some responses have been pretty disproportionate, I agree.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 November 2023 00:55 (three weeks ago) link

Hey Jews, anti-Semitism, Israel ... it's all one thread, really. I'm not a praying man, but I do think - too much, not enough - and the more I think about the current situation(s), the more I think we're reaching the end of Judaism. It's certainly been creeping in that direction for centuries, like the doomsday clock that's always one minute to midnight. Anyway, just how I'm feeling these days. Just another apocalypse to compartmentalize.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 November 2023 13:53 (three weeks ago) link


curmudgeon, Friday, 3 November 2023 14:43 (three weeks ago) link

yeah definitely don't feel that way, idk what would make this crisis, of all the thousands of years worth of crisis, be the final crisis to shut it down.

is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Friday, 3 November 2023 14:52 (three weeks ago) link

why is this moment more likely to "end judaism" than the holocaust or the spanish inquisition?

is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Friday, 3 November 2023 14:53 (three weeks ago) link

I guess I would say because in a sense they did what they set out to do: decimate the global Jewish population. Jews and Judaism exist not despite events like those, but *because* of events like those. The Jewish population is a fraction of what it once was and certainly what it might have been because of the success of those events, one of which happened really not that long ago, in the modern era, in my mother's lifetime. That leaves Jews a minority of a minority, without the voice and certainly without the numbers to reliably stand up against oppression. Which brings us, unfortunately, to Israel.

Israel only exists because of the aforementioned, because Jews were expelled, killed or otherwise ethnically cleansed throughout Europe, Russia, the Middle East, parts of Africa. So to Israel many went, and now Israel is home to a huge percentage of the Jewish population, the fallout being whatever fate befalls Israel befalls a huge number of Jews. I hate what's going on there. It makes me sick to my stomach. But I've not heard many people offer a solution that bodes well for the Jews. (What else is new, right?) A single state solution? I don't see that happening, and it would almost certainly be as bad for the Jewish population there as it has been in the surrounding region, not least after so many years of conflict. A two-state solution? Better, but what does that look like? Would Palestine be allowed all the rights of a sovereign nation? A standing army? Free trade with whomever it wants? The unfettered ability to wage war, as Israel has enjoyed? Anything less would negate the point of being a country. 

All that almost preordains further conflict with Israel, as does, needless to say, the status quo, whose opposition is louder and angrier than I have ever seen it. Which leaves the option of the Jews scattering once again, but to where? To all the places that killed or expelled them? En masse to the United States? I don't see that happening, and I don't see any of these things alleviating anti-Semitism at all. In fact, I think it would embolden it, with the Jewish population weakened even more. With history as guide, that path inevitably leads only in one direction.

Now, I'm writing this from the comfort of my home, where I feel safe and surrounded by friends and family. But I don't feel surrounded by Jews, not here, not really anywhere. And when any of us gather in relatively large numbers, I mostly feel surrounded by an overwhelmingly not-Jewish world, some of which wish us dead, but most of whom wouldn't notice if we were gone. We talk about chilling effects? I think that's what we're going to see. Judaism getting quieter and quieter, smaller and smaller, until it might as well be gone entirely. And functionally will be. 

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 November 2023 16:06 (three weeks ago) link

Bummer, right? I'm not curled up in a ball or anything like that, but the weight of things has been getting to me.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 November 2023 16:08 (three weeks ago) link

my friend there are roughly the same number of Jews in the world now as there were in 1942 (~16M), if not more (upper estimates over 20M)

Pierre Delecto, Friday, 3 November 2023 16:19 (three weeks ago) link

I appreciate the reassurance but in the same time span the world population grew by, what, almost six billion?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 November 2023 16:29 (three weeks ago) link

I'm not really concerned about the survival of Judaism right now, but the situation in Israel/Palestine feels awful and intractable to me and that is definitely causing me a lot of distress.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 3 November 2023 23:23 (three weeks ago) link


I rewatch this from time to time when I feel despair

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 12 November 2023 02:28 (two weeks ago) link

FWIW, that wasn't my experience, or at least it would be an exaggeration or caricature of it. I did get a fair amount of zionist propaganda, but we also had hebrew school teachers (conservative synagogue) who would question the situation and ask us to consider things like whether it was really possible for Israel to be both a Jewish state and a democracy. This was in the early 90s fwiw, so basically the Rabin years.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 13 November 2023 15:59 (two weeks ago) link

I watched a stream from 6th and I Synagogue in Dc tonight with a rabbi talking to a Palestinian Israeli member and a Jewish Israeli member of the Israeli based organization Standing Together that is trying to work together to create peace and more. The Palestinian Israeli member had spent time in the US during the Occupy Wall Street era and was inspired a bit by that. The group is on Instagram and Facebook (not to be confused with the newer organization 24/7IDF that's on Facebook, really)

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 02:46 (two weeks ago) link

(not to be confused with the newer organization Standing Together 24/7 IDF I mean that's on Facebook, really

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 02:47 (two weeks ago) link


symsymsym, Sunday, 19 November 2023 02:32 (one week ago) link

Yeah I’ve had some uncomfortable interactions with local parents. Not overt, but I was pressured to go to an Israel rally (made an excuse), have had friend requests from parents I’m not really friends with that feel a little aimed at checking what I’m posting (nothing at all on FB), and I got pressed into a WhatsApp group that I wound up leaving because it was just a bunch of look what this professor said and why didn’t our mayor make a pro Israel statement. I know there are probably parents closer to my views in town too, including Jews, I’m just not sure the best way to find them.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 19 November 2023 03:36 (one week ago) link

Sorry to hear that man. Navigating social media at this time is tricky enough, but it kind of sucks when you have to deal with peer pressure like that.

FWIW, I switched my profile to a photo of John Lennon's hand flashing a peace sign - no flags or "stand with" or "pro-____" verbiage anywhere, I just wanted something that would pre-emptively show I wasn't for violence but in a way that couldn't be misinterpreted as being pro-Hamas. I may have gotten one "de-friend" after that, but otherwise since then no one's tried to tag me or do any kind of social media stuff with me related to the conflict.

birdistheword, Sunday, 19 November 2023 04:37 (one week ago) link

A relative who was coming to DC for that Israel rally tagged me and a whole bunch more relatives in his Facebook post, and I just removed the tag.

curmudgeon, Sunday, 19 November 2023 17:21 (one week ago) link

I heard some speculation that a heavy % of the attendees were Christian zionists. IDK if that's based on anything or not.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:12 (one week ago) link

The people I know who went are my fellow Jews fwiw

Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:26 (one week ago) link

well, I don't think I know any Christian Zionists personally, so if they went I wouldn't know

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:28 (one week ago) link

My daughter went. She told me there were definitely people like that there, including a couple of speakers with some dubious backgrounds/baggage that made her uncomfortable. But she also apparently met a lot chill, reasonable people, with diverse viewpoints. Mostly Jews, as far as she could tell, though it's not like they were carrying signs. Well, I mean, a lot of them were, lol.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:29 (one week ago) link

FWIW she considered it a march against anti-Semitism, though I did explain to her that was not the specific driver.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:34 (one week ago) link

My co-worker's mom attended as part of a group from her Jewish retirement community in Montgomery County.

peace, man, Monday, 20 November 2023 12:23 (one week ago) link


This kinda seems more to be a story far more about how algorithmic social media and phone-based text communication seems to be singularly damaging to all human interaction, I’d posit

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 20 November 2023 17:52 (one week ago) link

I'm just wrestling with the fact that tons of my fellow Jews are talking quite openly about how they feel unsafe, don't feel like they can wear things that display their Jewishness, are discussing taking their mezuzot down, etc. -- and I just can't relate. Sure, there have been demonstrations against the war in Gaza in my city; that doesn't make me feel like somebody's going to beat me up coming out of shul or trash my house because there's a mezuzah on the door. There's a police officer outside our shul for services, which I do not think there should be, and I feel like the presence of the officer is reinforcing for the fear -- "things have gotten so bad we had to have security stationed outside the synagogue" -- but *did* we? Yes, I get that there have been incidents. But they are really rare! Even if less rare than before! I don't worry about my synagogue getting attacked any more than I worry about a student shooting up my kid's school.

So some part of me wants to say this publicly, because I don't think it's great for people to think all American Jews are feeling this sense of direct personal peril. But I also *don't* want to do this, because the people who are scared are people I value, respect, and like, members of my community. I just can't see myself publicly saying anything like this, when it would amount to telling thoe friends, in public, "your authentically held feelings are wrong." I mean, yes, technically, I would only be saying "I don't share those feelings." But there's no way to do that without dismissing them.

Not sure what I'm going for here, just wanted to have a place to say this.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 26 November 2023 21:07 (two days ago) link

I feel you

symsymsym, Sunday, 26 November 2023 21:12 (two days ago) link

And, like... people ARE feeling free to spout all kinds of antisemitic shit, from Elon Musk on down, and I don't want to act like I think that's OK or not a problem -- it's just that the *kind* of problem it is isn't "I'm worried about my family's physical safety in the middle of the United States of America."

Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 26 November 2023 21:16 (two days ago) link

Haven't heard this much from Jews I know, besides my mom deciding to get worried that the so-called Day of Jihad would somehow pose a danger to her on BC Ferries. I wonder if people are getting any abuse for wearing a yarmulke in public, haven't heard any stories but I could imagine it happening.

I went to a work conference last week and kept getting sympathy when I talked about my background or my extremely Jewish name. It felt undeserved - there are a lot of people in the world under a lot more danger and suffering than I am.

symsymsym, Sunday, 26 November 2023 21:30 (two days ago) link

That's for sure. At the same time, I think a lot of Jews have internalized (like a lot of minorities) a sort of latent threat can feel more or less prominent, depending on the context/trigger. I think the half-life of Trump hasn't helped.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 November 2023 00:59 (yesterday) link

Just went down a super dark rabbit hole of translating comments on an Instagram video of some hassidic Jews dancing (mostly in Russian - maybe from Chechnya, Dagestan, etc?). Definitely no distinction whatsoever made between Judaism and Zionism and some really horrific shit being said. I guess the likelihood of that impacting me is extremely minimal and best just to not go down the rabbit hole.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 27 November 2023 01:05 (yesterday) link

Big moment for the whole religion:

Argentina's President-Elect Javier Milei is converting to Judaism https://t.co/gMddyBbluS pic.twitter.com/yuH7Y0uZD5

— Joe Weisenthal (@TheStalwart) November 28, 2023

symsymsym, Tuesday, 28 November 2023 17:07 (six hours ago) link

Is it me or does he seem actually mentally unstable?

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 28 November 2023 18:43 (four hours ago) link

mentally unstable like a fox.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 28 November 2023 18:53 (four hours ago) link

BF Skinner taught pigeons to walk in figure-8s after an hour or so of simple positive reinforcements. It's not hard to understand that the more Milei is rewarded for his bizarre behavior the more bizarrely he'll behave. Much of Trump's behavior can be explained the same way; he's been rewarded so lavishly it's no wonder he now acts like he's a god on earth.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Tuesday, 28 November 2023 19:19 (three hours ago) link

Haven't there been at least two GOP congresspeople falsely claiming Judaism or Jewish descent recently (Santos and I don't remember the name of the other one)? Is this some new trend on the right?

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 28 November 2023 19:25 (three hours ago) link

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