Best Orson Welles film (as director)

fond memories of his Macbeth. I guess I should get around to seeing the Magnificent Ambersons one of these days

Didn't realize DVD was now available as a standalone.

I remember Roddy McDowall being kinda terrible in Macbeth... Othello all the way among Shakespeares.

Yeah, Roddy isn't going to make a great king.

Will get back to you to call you totally insane, Morbs, when I finally get around to Othello.

tsk tsk, you have become what I was merely rumored to be....

That's a throne you will never vacate.

Not only does Macbeth boast one of Welles' few good performances, the one by Jeanette Nolan is almost as good.

no, I do what's necessary and leave. xp

oh, you go envision Cary Grant as Titus Andronicus!

"one of Welles' few good performances"

Hah, OK, so that's what it looks like when I do that.

I get my jollies envisioning Archie as Rosalind.

Hah, OK, so that's what it looks like when I do that.

insightful?

i maintain that OW never made any bad films, but 'macbeth' is better than 'othello'

I, too, haven't seen a "bad" Orson Welles movie yet.

The Stranger probably.

Bad performances he's got, er, tons of.

If performances like his are bad, I don't really give a care about good ones.

He's hopeless playing a straightforward love scene (e.g. Tomorrow is Forever).

Well, yeah, who wants to see that? (Tho I was surprised at how rowr he was -- by his standards -- early on in Macbeth.)

I rewatched Ambersons last night; I always forget that's Anne Baxter as Cotten's daughter. She was allegedly 18 or 19. That scene where she faints in the drugstore AFTER Welles swings the lens away from her... who did THAT, ever, in Hollywood?

Tim Holt's fine as Georgie, as written at least. Love the way he says "Umph, strawberry shortcake" in the kitchen with Aunt Fanny.

The George-Mom relationship really isn't that compelling for an Oedipal drama tho. A near-great amputee of a movie, still.

Cotten is magisterial in a quiet sad way that's always killed me.

and that's after he's introduced slapstickily, exhibiting male fashion habits of 1900, then taking a pratfall.

the Baxter-Cotten chat about Indians is one of my favorite throwaway surreal bits in movies.

well, it's pretty thematically relevant, tho I'm not sure if the chief who gets set adrift is Morgan or George...

(I wonder if it's in Booth Tarkington)

there's a bit in the Thomson bio where he observes that Welles make Tarkington as deep as Henry James whereas most screen adaptations of James look like...Tarkington.

btw I still own this on VHS recorded from the local PBS station twenty years ago

The most beautiful (and most nostalgic) shot in the film has to be the iris at the end of the snow ride:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJxgrxl5BRM

The George-Mom relationship really isn't that compelling for an Oedipal drama tho.

one of the most fucked-up things about what RKO did to 'ambersons' is that they didn't just cut stuff, they actually RESHOT a couple of scenes to make tim holt more 'sympathetic' and less of a dick. so it was probably more intense in the original cut.

sabotage and all, this feels like welles's...deepest and most resonant movie, somehow. so many little bits of it just stick with me.

Then he fades in on the wake of George's father. xp

Is there a list somewhere of the post-Welles changes that are in the film?

The Callow bio reviews them.

i probably woulda voted for amberson or chimes, but as pure entertainment, c.k. has never stopped being a hoot.

Yes--I couldn't remember exactly what it was, but I knew the iris shot got some of its power from the contrast with whatever directly followed.

Essentially saw The Lady from Shanghai for the first time the other night (part of the Godard series). I did see it once years ago, but it was one of those nights I was really tired and shouldn't have gone to a movie. I knew the finale very well--it used to be part of the opening montage for TVO's Saturday Night at the Movies, and I've also shown it in class.

Anyway, fantastic. I'd have to watch them back-to-back, but I think I'd take it over Touch of Evil. Probably just as strange, too, primarily thanks to Glenn Anders. His first appearance has to rank up there with Welles in The Third Man and Hopper in Blue Velvet for spectacular entrances. (Possibly a thread there.) At first I didn't think Hayworth was as beautiful as in Gilda, but once she started wearing those sailor suits, wow. And the big finale is show-offy genius. Can't disagree with my friend: you can imagine Welles working on the script, sitting there with the last scene written and trying to figure out a movie to attach to it. Loved Everett Sloane, too. Hayworth gets a little too talkative and philosophical in her death scene, but that'd be my only minor quibble.

Apparently it was cut by at least an hour too. At least as much of a pity as Ambersons' mutilation imho.

Digital restoration of Othello showing soon.

Glenn Anders' film career was almost non-existent--he doesn't even get a little thumbnail photo on IMDB. Seems he was much more of a theatre guy.

You always want to have access to the director's original film, especially Welles, but it's hard for me to imagine where he would have gone with the extra hour--it really did seem close to perfect as is.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4aduA-eWwAg/UKWOli6MGXI/AAAAAAAAvAM/RibsFQ9JpfA/s400/a+Orson+Welles+The+Lady+from+Shanghai+Rita+Hayworth+DVD+Review+PDVD_014.jpg

well, sure it's hard for US to imagine...

http://www.filmcomment.com/article/a-face-in-the-crowd-glenn-anders

I've tried LFS several times, each time bored. I dunno if it's Welles' performance or the movie itself that's attenuated.

it's very funny!

Someone take Alfred out for a little tarrrrr-get practice.

(Kidding. I'm often on here expressing ambivalence about famous films. I must have been in exactly the right frame of mind this time.)

Essentially saw The Lady from Shanghai for the first time the other night

Me too! If, over the past several decades, you had asked me if I had seen it, I was certain I had. But I really only knew the hall of mirrors finale; everything else was new to me. What a crazy movie.

The Lady from Shanghai would be vastly improved if he didn't have that shit Irish accent, but still it is brilliant. The opening sequence of The Stranger is awesome, I quite love it but it is a failure of sorts. Both CK and the Ambersons are movies I will continually re-watch until I die.

Just noticed that The Lady From Shanghai soundtrack has a quote from "Amado Mio," one of Rita's big numbers from Gilda.

This tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2czNzWnkOcI

trying to go through all the ones I haven't seen yet and if there's a worst one I think Alfred is right, it's the Stranger

love everything else to varying degrees. still need to see Othello, the Immortal Story and the Fountain of Youth

The Stranger is the most nakedly commercial, and i always found it totally fine. Mr Arkadin and The Trial, while more ambitious and... stranger, take some getting used to.

it's not that The Stranger is bad, it's just that everything else is better! Or at least has more interesting things going on. Welles' performance isn't remotely convincing, and the rest seems fairly standard.

Mr. Arkadin is bonkers and a lot of the cast is appropriately scenery-chewing (my favorite being Welles drunkenly staggering around on the swaying boat) so although it is a mess in terms of narrative and pacing I give it points for being fitfully engaging instead of just boring.

Visually the Trial is fantastic. The constant jabbery overdubbed Welles' dialogue gets soporific though.

just saw lady from shanghai (part of a double feature — touch of evil is next). as I’m sure everyone agrees, the ending is fantastic. welles’ accent didn’t bother me nearly as much as the sound editing (unless it was just the theater?). I thought the courtroom scenes were probably the weakest part of the movie, and while she is very easy to look at, all the closeups of hayworth were a little distracting, but overall a really good film. agree with clemenza about grisby’s entrance

imo, F for Fake is hugely overrated. The idea was clever, but not enough to carry a full length film, and certainly not a full length film as poorly executed as that one was.

alright touch of evil fucking ruled

the opening long shot, wow, I need to find that and watch it again

some incredible performances in this — welles especially, heston, andthat fortune-teller lady

a really unnervingly charming blend of camp and menace