are you an atheist?

For them, science isn't separate from God

that's because science and religion both stem from trying to explain the as yet unexplained. the difference is that one arrives at the conclusion and works backwards.

I think for many believers their subjective experience of God is also reproducible and verifiable. They pray -> they feel better.

If you sit down and do nothing for 5 minutes, you get the same effect. Does that disprove God?

What if it means God is sitting down and doing nothing?

I was pretty explicit about c+p'ing that because it was interesting, not because it supported any particular pt.

xxp

"We don't know everything" =/= "we know nothing." Frankly, that's someone like Ken Ham's game ("If the Big Bang is true where did the singularity come from? CHECKMATE, ATHEISTS.") and beneath anyone who takes the subject seriously from any direction at all.

xxp fine, still

What if it means God is sitting down and doing nothing

Then I am the most religious person alive.

Can't we just say God is The Big Bang and then drop the whole thing?

God is so lazy. Sheesh. Get to work God!

we have a pretty good idea of what the brain does. How it does it is still pretty baffling.

WHAT IF GOD IS MY LAPTOP WHAT THEN ATHEISTS.

j/k I don't even have a laptop

^^ metaphor for atheism

fwiw, there is scientific evidence that "prayer" makes people "feel better." Kind of paradoxical when you think about it -- if you know that "prayer" is actually just a scientifically explainable brain activity that produces objectively measurable results, it would tend to lessen one's faith that something metaphysical is happening, which would in turn make it more difficult to produce that "prayer effect" on one's own mind

So cool how "gravity" and "electrons" and "elements" and "magnetism" nobody has ever held in their hand or seen w a naked eye. Are scientists just Concept Artists in disguise?

I have a gravity I got last week, once I show you the evidence that science is true, I will win this debate for all time.

people tend to feel better by petting dogs or cats. Bow down before them.

You are arguing with arguments that I am not making.

as are you, so we're even

Sorry, yeah i got off topic. Kinda a brainstorm.

you just said you're arguing just for the hell of it, so forgive me if I'm having trouble even grasping what your point is here.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

My point is that a purely subjective belief in god is valid and it's silly to try to argue that eventually science will obviate that

And that provided you aren't actually using this subjective belief to make objective explanations or predictions about the material world, it's no crazier than saying stuff like "I love you" or "that's funny"

Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure people have seen elements with their naked eye.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/afontevecchia/files/2011/11/Gold-Bars-in-Fort-Knox.jpg

That one is number 79. You're welcome.

those comparisons are wack. I love you because Zeus has made it so. That's funny because little elves are tickling my funny bone.

and gravity and electromagnetiism aren't things, but the observable effects of things.

And that provided you aren't actually using this subjective belief to make objective explanations or predictions about the material world,

like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in not admitting any space for religion in the world

why do you think that is?

wait wait lemme lie down on a couch, doc

My point is that a purely subjective belief in god is valid and it's silly to try to argue that eventually science will obviate that

― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:11 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

Doesn't our history as a species discovering why something works scientifically and replacing the magic based theories suggest that trajectory will continue?

Yes but the history is also of people doing things for silly beliefs as well and that will continue.

Like you guys are forgetting that alchemy gave birth to chemistry, astrology to astronomy, etc.

the space that religion inhabits has been shrinking steadily. a logical conclusion would be that one day, MAYBE, it will inhabit no space. I have no sentiment tied to religion, so that's fine by me. I see no need to believe in things that have no proof and perhaps can never be proved one way or the other, and that as you said shouldn't allow you to make explanations and predictions about the material world (reminds me of The Ether). if someone wants to believe in spiritual/supernatural stuff, that's fine so long as they keep it to themselves more or less. I have nothing to compel me to believe in such things.

Yes but the history is also of people doing things for silly beliefs as well and that will continue.

it will continue. indefinitely? you don't know

I would say there is lots of religion. Basically pop culture, celebrities, wealth, etc. has replaced the old gods. People still have weird rituals that have nothing to do with physical survival and are there for mainly psychological reasons. You who submit to your iPhone.

where all my alchemy believers at!??!

if you want to stretch "religion" to mean all those things, it's a meaningless term but you win the argument

I would say there is lots of religion. Basically pop culture, celebrities, wealth, etc. has replaced the old gods. People still have weird rituals that have nothing to do with physical survival and are there for mainly psychological reasons. You who submit to your iPhone.

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:23 PM (29 seconds ago)

Sure, but is this a counterpoint? What does it have to do with scientific progression?

How is it a stretch to say money is God? Every day people are killed in the name of money, you know? I consider this dangerous, cultish behavior.

because no one thinks Money created the universe

like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in not admitting any space for religion in the world

― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:16 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

why do you think that is?

― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:17 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This isn't really directed at Hurting, but theists in general.

like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in preserving any space for religion in the world. why do you think that is?

See where it gets you to make things psychoanalytically personal?

Scientific progression, because the internet, because democratization of knowledge, because "I know more than you" or "I saw that meme first" is how you pray towards the god Information. Animated gif Iconography, fan fiction gaming mods, cosplayers pretending to be comic book gods in movies that make more money than whole nations.

i suspect you've never suffered from acid reflux if you'd describe it as a warm fuzzy feeling

― Mordy , Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:55 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

man is there anything you can't suck all of the fun out of

To be fair that's always the first thing that comes to mind when I hear that quote

re: "why do you think that is?"...because I think overall religion is a negative force in the world. I would be happy to see it go.

like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in preserving any space for religion in the world. why do you think that is?

Because the purpose of religion for many people is primarily emotional, not explanatory. That's what you're missing.

But you can't separate religion anymore than you can separate violence or frowning from the world, can you?

gee I never thought of that, Hurting, thanks.

I just have a problem with how critical thinking isn't applied to religion. Lots of people that believe in that stuff would never believe in other things that have the same exact standard of evidence

the space that religion inhabits has been shrinking steadily. a logical conclusion would be that one day, MAYBE, it will inhabit no space